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Injustice: Gods Among Us |OT| With Super Friends Like These, Who Needs Enemies?

V

vg260

Member
jtir123 said:
I was thinking this, but I guess we can't speak for the pros as we don't know how good a "high-level" Scorpion is.

From what I've read though, this "patient gameplay" narrows down the metagame to simply reacting to his one gimmick, where everything but blocking low and punishing is the only option. I can kinda see the point, where it's no longer a "fighting game" but a "duck and punish" game.

As for bans, I have no strong opinions. I think whatever the tournament organizers decide, I'm fine with.
Click to expand...

If the top tournament players have this much issue with Scorpion, that's saying something, and probably bodes even worse for online as it's gonna drive people offline in droves. This character is just bad for the game as-is.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Kizer said:
I'd like them to move on to the other blackest night costumes that didn't involve black lanterns. Blue Flash, Star Sapphire Wonder Woman, Orange Lex.
Click to expand...

Gimme some White Sinestro
 
K

Khezu

Member
Troubled Bat said:
Scarlet and Batgirl are broken?
Click to expand...

Skarlets daggers were broke, you could do some nifty dagger cancels with them that let you throw them insanely quick and keep the opponent in block stun from across the screen. It wasn't a true block infinite like Cyborgs old IANBs, but it was really bad, and only like 5 characters could do anything to her.

Batgirls MB bola and being able to reset combos with the bola causing a infinite.
 
J

J-Tier

Member
Looks like it will be a Blackest Night pack 2 with Aquaman and Hawkgirl.

The third better not be Batman though. That'll be crappy since I purchased Batman.
 
H

Horseress

Member
2&2 said:
Way to go Boon. Shoe-horn in your non-DC baby into a game with completely different mechanics and with a engine-breaking move, and now it's ruining the game. Nice going. There was absolutely nothing good about putting this character in the game.

I'm all for banning, and I hope they nerf the crap out of him and he becomes the Dan of this game.

(Yeah, I'm still mad he's in there to begin with)
Click to expand...

Yeah, that, I'm hoping for that
Like: "Ok Boon, you have your little child in there, but don't let him disturb the others please"
 
V

vg260

Member
Horseress said:
Yeah, that, I'm hoping for that
Like: "Ok Boon, you have your little child in there, but don't let him disturb the others please"
Click to expand...

I'll take him being fixed to play fair within the engine, but I wouldn't lose sleep over that. I think it's funny how he forced his character in this and it's got so many people, including the top players upset and on the verge of people dropping it. There would be some irony in Scorpion killing the game. Don't want it to happen, so they should just patch him. He deserves any criticism he gets for this though.
 
N

Nori Chan

Member
Maybe it's an Earth 2 pack and we get Earth 2 Grundy, WW, and hopefully a 4th for hawkgirl.

That's how they did it with doomsday except his was a compat pack
 
B

Beast Legacy

Member
2&2 said:
I'll take him being fixed to play fair within the engine, but I wouldn't lose sleep over that. I think it's funny how he forced his character in this and it's got so many people, including the top players upset and on the verge of people dropping it. There would be some irony in Scorpion killing the game. Don't want it to happen, so they should just patch him. He deserves any criticism he gets for this though.
Click to expand...

Trust me, I'm the last person to ever want bullshit crossovers like this one. Even if they put the character I actually use in MK (Reptile) I'd still be mad.

But that's separate from the issue of banning him for gameplay reasons. Though the arguments presented by everyone from the scene including top players indicates he may be strong, I wish people would wait until something like CEO or EVO at the very least until they cry ban. Or better yet, pick Scorpion and win everything. Prove how "ban worthy" he may be by showing people why he's poison to the meta. Because the only poison to the meta is the fear of new things and the unwillingness to learn and adapt to overcome them. That stagnates and kills a game just as much as an overpowered character. Just don't leave it to theorycraft when, again, the character and the game itself are still way too young to make sweeping ban decisions.
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
Beast Legacy said:
Trust me, I'm the last person to ever want bullshit crossovers like this one. Even if they put the character I actually use in MK (Reptile) I'd still be mad.

But that's separate from the issue of banning him for gameplay reasons. Though the arguments presented by everyone from the scene including top players indicates he may be strong, I wish people would wait until something like CEO or EVO at the very least until they cry ban. Or better yet, pick Scorpion and win everything. Prove how "ban worthy" he may be by showing people why he's poison to the meta. Because the only poison to the meta is the fear of new things and the unwillingness to learn and adapt to overcome them. That stagnates and kills a game just as much as an overpowered character. Just don't leave it to theorycraft when, again, the character and the game itself are still way too young to make sweeping ban decisions.
Click to expand...

It's not a "wait an see" scenario. This character breaks the blocking system of the game and ruins the metagame.
 
V

vg260

Member
DRE Fei said:
It's not a "wait an see" scenario. This character breaks the blocking system of the game and ruins the metagame.
Click to expand...

From listening to the podcast, I'd have to agree with this point. Plus, I think these guys play enough of the game to recognize it's not just an issue of the character being too good.
 
G

Gurrry

Member
Its absolutely ironic that Scorpion, a mortal kombat character, is the one that is pushing all the pro SF players away from this game..

Just like they all dropped MK9 after about 2 weeks... The only people left playing are going to be MK guys. :(

I still love the game, but I will admit, ever since Scorpion was released, my interested has been slowly caving.

Its not all scorps fault... but everytime you go online and all you see is Scorpion players.. it makes me just want to play something else.

You know.. like a DC fighting game.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Beast Legacy said:
Trust me, I'm the last person to ever want bullshit crossovers like this one. Even if they put the character I actually use in MK (Reptile) I'd still be mad.

But that's separate from the issue of banning him for gameplay reasons. Though the arguments presented by everyone from the scene including top players indicates he may be strong, I wish people would wait until something like CEO or EVO at the very least until they cry ban. Or better yet, pick Scorpion and win everything. Prove how "ban worthy" he may be by showing people why he's poison to the meta. Because the only poison to the meta is the fear of new things and the unwillingness to learn and adapt to overcome them. That stagnates and kills a game just as much as an overpowered character. Just don't leave it to theorycraft when, again, the character and the game itself are still way too young to make sweeping ban decisions.
Click to expand...

That's what CDJr is supposedly doing. He's picking up Scorpion today and plans on winning CEO this weekend.
 
B

Beast Legacy

Member
DRE Fei said:
It's not a "wait an see" scenario. This character breaks the blocking system of the game and ruins the metagame.
Click to expand...

It's not like he's the only air teleport character in a back-to-block fighting game in history. Plus it would be a shame if he's barred from play before people have had months to experiment tactics with and against him. The potential for stuff like people picking characters other than top tier in hopes of discovering new tech for counters could be there too. As others have said, Bane seems like a decent pick against him and that's good to have some variety. But it won't happen if all that's heard is a chorus of "ban! ban!" from people who don't bother learning new stuff.

What pains me the most is that some top players are going along with this ban bandwagon so early in the game and character's lifespan. To admit that there is no other option other than to pick Scorpion or counterpick Scorpion is to admit that the game has no potential for evolution and growth. Or it's just laziness in trying to discover new tech. Unfortunately, both options are sad to consider.

Now, the previous point of a blanket ban on DLC (and the reason only being that a character is DLC) until a specific period post-release, that I can get behind. DLC should've been banned until after EVO as they were not part of the initial testing and balancing process for the game and therefore need some time in the wild for the bugs and glitches to be ironed out.

So I'm not in favor of banning him for gameplay reasons. But if Wizard and EVO were to come out with a blanket ban on DLC because they are DLC and the weird logistics involved with them, at least for the game's first EVO (just as they did for SFxT), then I'd be for that.

A Pretty Panda said:
That's what CDJr is supposedly doing. He's picking up Scorpion today and plans on winning CEO this weekend.
Click to expand...

Then I wish him good luck with his goal. Hopefully other players don't just lay down, give up, and take the Scorpion beating just to say "See? See?!" and actually give CDJr a run for his money.
 
X

Xevren

Member
I approve of the Scorpion hate train, and saw this coming. I hate how that one move will render so many characters near useless. I'd hate to be Sinestro against him.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Khezu said:
Well if you have an opinion on it, Mr Wizard opened up a poll

http://testyourmight.com/threads/should-scorpion-be-banned-at-evo-2013.34732/page-2

If you have an account, go there and vote.
Click to expand...

Thanks for putting this up here bud. Its gotten pretty serious and everyone should weigh in on this and explain there reasons for or against banning Scorpion. Dont vote to spite one group or another...weigh his tools and what they do make a judgment call.

For those wanting a really solid breakdown on the issues with Scorpion that are causing this debate "PLAYING TO W1N" at TYM summed it up nicely in an enormous post. Here is a small fraction of his post to clear up the issues folks have.
PLAYING TO W1N at TYM said:
Scorpion:
-- the ability to NEVER be cornered
-- the ability to punish interactables from mid/full screen on reaction to full combo's ending in reset situations
-- unblockable mid hitting hellfire that starts up in 26 frames! Punishing/Whiff Punishing more than half of the zoning tools in the game.
-- MB teleport works as a parry in some situations were you can mash it through untrue block strings for full punish
-- The best Jump 3 in the entire game that leads to huge adv on block and full combo's on hit no matter where in the jump arc it hits
-- non mb tele that often trades with jump 1/2's that allows to combo into another tele
-- MB tele trip guards (If you are jumping back 1/2 fishing for a tele Scorpion can react with MB tele and hit u in the recovery frames when you land after hitting 1/2 for full combos to resets)
-- you can NEVER jump forward vs scorp bc MB tele will always hit you.
-- the character can never be safe jumped using MB tele as a wake up bc it will hit or put him +9 on block
-- the best mobility in the game
-- ALL AIR BASED CHARACTERS ARE ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED on reaction by jump tele
-- it is argued that you can just jump back on Scorp's wake up fot whiff punish tele. What if he delays in half a sec then tele? it will hit your jump.
-- in ALL KNOCKDOWN SITUATIONS THAT PLACE SCORP AT SWEEP RANGE OR FURTHER (like corps charge with lex or b213 with sinestro) you CANNOT SAFE JUMP IT bc the MB tele with activate d/t invincibility and trip guard your jump in whatever
-- A WAY TO FINISH COMBO'S WITH THE STANDING RESET LIKE FROST AND CONTINUE SAFE PRESSURE!
-- completely immune to zoning. (if you play a character like sinestro or DS, you earn your space. if I thoughtfully zone you and create space... its bc it was earned. this characters are highly punishable at sweep range/midscreen by 90% of the cast. ) scorpion completely ignores this has out zones everyone... completely.... and stays +9
-- the ability to do a wake up move and be plus 9 every single time without consequence
-- There is no character in the game that can dictate the pace of a match like scorp.
-- the ability to turn ANY block string into a 50/50 mix up with tele's

Now... compare this list to your characters abilities?

It all builds on the tele/MB teleport. The move is hands down the best in the entire game and has more use than any other move. Remember when I talked about moves and how the risk/reward should be considered when balancing it? The MB teleport should be -12 on block considering all of the uses the move has. Non-MB tele should remain -42 and hit as a mid.

Lets look at a few other moves that have tremendous uses and imagine if they were all +9. I mean... why not? Why not give all these characters a move that is NOT as good as MB tele and make it +9.

-- Death Stroke Sword Flip
-- Green Lantern's Might
-- Killer Frost's Slide
-- Black Adam non MB dive kick
-- Lex's Corps Charge
-- Superman Flying Punch
-- bane's headbutt
-- catwomans full screen dash thing
-- flash headbutt
-- shazaams superman
-- batgirls smoke bomb
-- et cetera

*non of these moves (except for frosts slide) have the utility as MB teleport but not one of them are +9... so what are the motives for keeping a move with this much use at +9?
Click to expand...
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
Beast Legacy said:
It's not like he's the only air teleport character in a back-to-block fighting game in history. Plus it would be a shame if he's barred from play before people have had months to experiment tactics with and against him. The potential for stuff like people picking characters other than top tier in hopes of discovering new tech for counters could be there too. As others have said, Bane seems like a decent pick against him and that's good to have some variety. But it won't happen if all that's heard is a chorus of "ban! ban!" from people who don't bother learning new stuff.

What pains me the most is that some top players are going along with this ban bandwagon so early in the game and character's lifespan. To admit that there is no other option other than to pick Scorpion or counterpick Scorpion is to admit that the game has no potential for evolution and growth. Or it's just laziness in trying to discover new tech. Unfortunately, both options are sad to consider.

Now, the previous point of a blanket ban on DLC (and the reason only being that a character is DLC) until a specific period post-release, that I can get behind. DLC should've been banned until after EVO as they were not part of the initial testing and balancing process for the game and therefore need some time in the wild for the bugs and glitches to be ironed out.

So I'm not in favor of banning him for gameplay reasons. But if Wizard and EVO were to come out with a blanket ban on DLC because they are DLC and the weird logistics involved with them, at least for the game's first EVO (just as they did for SFxT), then I'd be for that.



Then I wish him good luck with his goal. Hopefully other players don't just lay down, give up, and take the Scorpion beating just to say "See? See?!" and actually give CDJr a run for his money.
Click to expand...

Blanket ban on DLC because of the logistics involved seems fair, but I'm ok with just banning scorpion. You can try to counterpick with maybe 3 other characters right now (Aquaman, Wonder Woman and probably Batgirl), but he simply dominates most of the cast. Because of the teleport punch, you cannot initiate offense. Meterburned teleport makes the situation even worse. You cannot jump, dash at him, or zone him. The entire match is spent waiting for him to make a move. Because you press down to avoid teleport crossup, this gives him free reign to hellfire unblockable you from full screen or jump around freely with his amazing air normals with no fear while you sit and wait. He completely destroys the metagame.

I'm not interested in playing a 4 character game every time I go to Super Arcade. Ban him now.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Satan's Haze on TYM may have just come up with the smartest way to fix Scorpion's teleport.

Satan's Haze on TYM said:
Wouldn't it be better if Scorps tele was a part of his trait (like Raven)?

-a hitting cross-up tele without cooldown is a bit much in a back to block game, adding it to his trait would give it some cooldown (ofcourse active and cooldown period should be adjusted)
-teleport won't ever be random, because the opponent can see when a Scorp player has the ability to teleport.
-teleport wouldn't be as fast, as trait has to be active first. Giving more room for zoning and interactables.
-it still gives the scorp player the ability to play tele mindgames.

Ofcourse, the rest of the character will need adjusting (damage, frames,...), but it will take out a lot of the randomness that is his teleport.
Click to expand...

Restrict the teleport to only being available when Scorpion's trait is up? This...this works. Anyone else here think this is a good solution to this problem? He cant always dictate the pace of the match with it restricted to trait cooldown and this way it doesn't get nerfed to death.

Anyone else like this idea? Weigh in on this please. I am posting a poll on this at TYM since NRS frequents the site if you want to vote on it.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/sc...-making-it-trait-only-would-balance-it.34741/
 
G

Gleethor

Member
jtir123 said:
I hope so, Blackest Night Batman release was a mistake, if I remember correctly (I probably didn't =P)
Click to expand...

But he's been available as a stand alone purchase in europe on PSN if I'm not mistaken, would kinda fuck those guys over if they put him in a pack with new skins.
 
S

Spiritreaver

Member
Wow I came here to complain about Scorpion ruining KOTHs and to see if anyone had advice on beating him, but it seems everyone has problems against him.

I get how to b lock his teleports, but the problem I have is I spend to much time trying to block them only to get hit with crossups or overheads I don't see coming. But it seems that's in the list of complaints people have.

I don't mind him being in the game, but he just doesn't seem to be very fun. :(

EDIT: It especially sucks as I'm trying to pick up Ares. So anytime I win people feel the need to spam me with a teleport char, aka Scorp.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Boon is apparently listening and NRS is trying to figure out the best thing to do right now. Boon's twitter is blown up with posts on it since folks finally started debating the character and what he has created in the meta of Injustice.

https://twitter.com/noobde

Dont know how this will end, but they've been listening and know Scorpion breaks the meta at least.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Grundy's new Man of Gray outfit is shown today on the Injustice Facebook.
rtaMFTM.jpg
 
X

Xevren

Member
shaowebb said:
Boon is apparently listening and NRS is trying to figure out the best thing to do right now. Boon's twitter is blown up with posts on it since folks finally started debating the character and what he has created in the meta of Injustice.

https://twitter.com/noobde

Dont know how this will end, but they've been listening and know Scorpion breaks the meta at least.
Click to expand...

I'm curious what they're going to do. Obviously it's going to be something, since the amount of people being vocal about it is probably even louder than the Deathstroke stuff at release.
 
B

Bruce Lee Kicks

Member
Gurrry said:
Its absolutely ironic that Scorpion, a mortal kombat character, is the one that is pushing all the pro SF players away from this game..

Just like they all dropped MK9 after about 2 weeks... The only people left playing are going to be MK guys. :(

I still love the game, but I will admit, ever since Scorpion was released, my interested has been slowly caving.

Its not all scorps fault... but everytime you go online and all you see is Scorpion players.. it makes me just want to play something else.

You know.. like a DC fighting game.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Haven't played online much since Scorpion was put in. He takes all the fun outta the game. I shouldn't have to counterpick and learn new characters just to combat one. I wish they'd replace him with one of the possible 2nd season pass characters, at least until they figure out how to balance him properly.
 
V

vg260

Member
shaowebb said:
Satan's Haze on TYM may have just come up with the smartest way to fix Scorpion's teleport.



Restrict the teleport to only being available when Scorpion's trait is up? This...this works. Anyone else here think this is a good solution to this problem? He cant always dictate the pace of the match with it restricted to trait cooldown and this way it doesn't get nerfed to death.

Anyone else like this idea? Weigh in on this please. I am posting a poll on this at TYM since NRS frequents the site if you want to vote on it.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/sc...-making-it-trait-only-would-balance-it.34741/
Click to expand...

I think they'll do something, but I'm just not sure if they'll do something that's such a big change. Still, I don't think anything should be off the table. That teleport is terrible for the game and there's a laundry list of other issues as posted above.

Grecco said:
DONT TOUCH SCORPION (until after evo)
Click to expand...

Why would they let DLC for this game be in, but not the DLC for MK? I don't think there's enough time to evaluate a DLC character. Why not be consistent?
 
Nestunt

Nestunt

Member
I'm interested in buying this game

but Im getting a bit confused with all these costumes?

are all they behind a paywall or are they like mk9 (in the compatibility packs)?
 
O

OSHAN

Member
Nestunt said:
I'm interested in buying this game

but Im getting a bit confused with all these costumes?

are all they behind a paywall or are they like mk9 (in the compatibility packs)?
Click to expand...

Majority behind paywall. A costume is included in the compatibility packs. I think three costumes have been free; Zod, when he is released, will have a free costume bundled as well.

The rest are in packs, priced at 3 dollars per pack. Each pack contains three costumes.
 
Nestunt

Nestunt

Member
OSHAN said:
Majority behind paywall. A costume is included in the compatibility packs. I think three costumes have been free; Zod, when he is released, will have a free costume bundled as well.

The rest are in packs, priced at 3 dollars per pack. Each pack contains three costumes.
Click to expand...

It was to be expected since cosmetics is important in these contexts
 
K

Khezu

Member
Nori Chan said:
I really hope WW is the compat pack and not
Grundy. I want an earth 2 pack too that way two hawkgirl costumes are a possibility :0
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the Wondy is just the new 52 pack with Superman and Batman.

Hopefully we get some costumes in between the wait for season 1 and 2.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Grecco said:
DONT TOUCH SCORPION (until after evo)
Click to expand...

Things I bet will happen to Scorpion no matter what are that they change the teleport back to hitting on block instead of whiffing and that they change hellfire to a low so you cant just throw it out if people are crouch blocking to stay safe.
 
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