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[Ploid 3.0]

I bet Ignatz Mouse, and Kaching's posts get ignored or glanced over, and the fighting continues.

 

[kaching]

You may be onto something there, ploid. *looks at ziran's post*

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Yea was going to add he posted at the same time as me. More to come.

 

[ziran]

You may be onto something there, ploid. *look's at ziran's post*

Nah, I read Ignatz Mouse's last post but thought is was nonsense. The idea a developer who has worked exclusively for Sony for years needs to defend against all the hurtful things the naughty fanboys have said about PS3 is bollocks! :lol

Mudslinging will only do one thing, create more mudslinging, which is obvious.

 

[Draft]

I bet Ignatz Mouse, and Kaching's posts get ignored or glanced over, and the fighting continues.

Assuming they weren't ignored, you expect them to simply end the discussion? I don't want to draw a line in the sand, but... clearly they are on firmly entrenched on one side of that line :lol

 

[DCharlie]

come now though - Sony have had a marvelous run with the media for the last 10 years or so.

Although i agree that many sources/boards are going way over the top with the hate - you only have to look back to E3 2005 and see the same level of ferocious overstated fawning over sony and what the PS3 can do (which, as it turned out, didn't really turn out as planned) from board members and the media which, in the same way recent news is, was way over the top.

i think sonyfanboys need to grow a thicker skin and just rise above it all. But it seems they can't because they want to win every single battle.

the painting of sony as some victimized cripple is very difficult to take seriously.

 

[Apocryphon]

All fanboys need to die. In fact i'm surprised the word itself hasn't been banned here.

 

[kaching]

you expect them to simply end the discussion?

Did he say that? Tells you something when you equate the normal infighting with real discussion and ziran thinks his blog amounts to mudslinging.

I already stated my stance on the blog itself much earlier in the thread - I agreed with AltogetherAndrews in that I'd prefer developers not wade into the console politics and, to add to that, I also agree with BenjaminBirdie that if he was going to do it, he could have at least done it with something that provided more of an insider perspective than that blogpost that looks like it could have been cobbled together from GAF posts.

 

[Vagabundo]

come now though - Sony have had a marvelous run with the media for the last 10 years or so.

Although i agree that many sources/boards are going way over the top with the hate -

10 years of pent up hate maybe.

 

[elostyle]

I bet Ignatz Mouse, and Kaching's posts get ignored or glanced over, and the fighting continues.

This is very bad form. Those posts are not particularly more insightful and certainly don't warrant an end of the discussion.

Hell, I guess you ignored my earlier post in the thread and I'll be dammed if that one wasn't like totally right on the money! So who is more right?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Blah blah blah. Thinker skin is one thing, but I'm personally resigned to PS3 taking a much smaller role this gen than PS2 in the past, and blame nobody but Sony for that. But the ridiculous anti-Sony slant in the press is unreasonable and needs to be called out form time to time.

- Incorrect facts
- skewing of price comparisons (to take today's example)
- ignoring positives
- low scores for games which deserve better, even if they aren't GOTY material
- nitpicking very weird little stuff

When does it end? Next Next Gen? If so, so be it. But when somebody calls it out, don't be surprised/outraged/flabergasted about it. Look at all the people up in arms and offended by this blog post. Who needs the thinker skin?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

come now though - Sony have had a marvelous run with the media for the last 10 years or so.

Although i agree that many sources/boards are going way over the top with the hate - you only have to look back to E3 2005 and see the same level of ferocious overstated fawning over sony and what the PS3 can do (which, as it turned out, didn't really turn out as planned) from board members and the media which, in the same way recent news is, was way over the top.

i think sonyfanboys need to grow a thicker skin and just rise above it all. But it seems they can't because they want to win every single battle.

the painting of sony as some victimized cripple is very difficult to take seriously.

Indeed. When you consider that PS2's out of the gate and subsequent success in that first crappy year (worst first year of software for any console, IMO) was due to the non-stop Sony PS2 Emotion Engine/75 million polygons/NURBs/nuclear missle launcher/etc. kowtowing that went on in the mainstream and gaming press, it's not hard to believe that the opposite is also possible. Hype can propel you skyward and drive you into the ground just the same. Sony's been exceedingly good at generating and riding that wave. This is pretty much the first time they've been caught in the undertow of their own wave.

 

[Kilrogg]

Insomniac is a respectable developer, but their business acumen is obviously broken.

 

[M3Freak]

Resistance rocks, you asses. To top it all off, it's a fecking launch game - it put every console FPS to fecking shame in one fell swoop.

No Resistance hater has played 40 player Breach games with GAF. If you did, you would realize just how leg breaking wicked it is.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Insomniac is a respectable developer, but their business acumen is obviously broken.

Are you calling them out on their choice of platform alignment or because their CCO decided to try and beat back the flames a bit? If the latter, I think it's a reasonable reaction considering they have their interests solely lying with Sony and the PS3. Ultimately, his blog hasn't done anything but dredge up more negativity, either new stuff or just the same ol'.

 

[elostyle]

Blah blah blah. Thinker skin is one thing, but I'm personally resigned to PS3 taking a much smaller role this gen than PS2 in the past, and blame nobody but Sony for that. But the ridiculous anti-Sony slant in the press is unreasonable and needs to be called out form time to time.

- Incorrect facts
- skewing of price comparisons (to take today's example)
- ignoring positives
- low scores for games which deserve better, even if they aren't GOTY material
- nitpicking very weird little stuff

When does it end? Next Next Gen? If so, so be it. But when somebody calls it out, don't be surprised/outraged/flabergasted about it. Look at all the people up in arms and offended by this blog post. Who needs the thinker skin?

Seriously, this happens to all 3 platforms and their vendors equally.

 

[iapetus]

Nah, I read Ignatz Mouse's last post but thought is was nonsense.

Ah, okay. I thought it was just unfortunate timing.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Indeed. When you consider that PS2's out of the gate and subsequent success in that first crappy year (worst first year of software for any console, IMO) was due to the non-stop Sony PS2 Emotion Engine/75 million polygons/NURBs/nuclear missle launcher/etc. kowtowing that went on in the mainstream and gaming press, it's not hard to believe that the opposite is also possible. Hype can propel you skyward and drive you into the ground just the same. Sony's been exceedingly good at generating and riding that wave. This is pretty much the first time they've been caught in the undertow of their own wave.

The PS2's first year was actually quite good.

SSX
Twisted Metal: Black
MGS2
GTA3
Tekken
Next-gen Madden

and ending that first year with GTA3.

That's off the top of my head.

It was quite popular among Dreamcast fans to deride the PS2 laucnh and first year, but it was actually quite good.

Your overall point about there being a backlash against general Sony hype is somewhat true, but it's not as if Sony made the worst console ever and everybody praised it at the PS2 release.

For the record, I had a Dreamcast from launch day. PS2 blew it away once it got over its launch drought, and even the launch had several spectacular games.

 

[Pureauthor]

Are you calling them out on their choice of platform alignment or because their CCO decided to try and beat back the flames a bit? If the latter, I think it's a reasonable reaction considering they have their interests solely lying with Sony and the PS3. Ultimately, his blog hasn't done anything but dredge up more negativity, either new stuff or just the same ol'.

If he was trying to 'beat the flames back', then I think it would have been slightly more effective had he not used the sort of arguments that have generally served to contribute to the flames in the first place.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

If he was trying to 'beat the flames back', then I think it would have been slightly more effective had he not used the sort of arguments that have generally served to contribute to the flames in the first place.

QFT.

It seemed more to me like a reasonable person "losing it" after hearing one risiculous negative thing too many.

 

[Kilrogg]

Are you calling them out on their choice of platform alignment or because their CCO decided to try and beat back the flames a bit? If the latter, I think it's a reasonable reaction considering they have their interests solely lying with Sony and the PS3. Ultimately, his blog hasn't done anything but dredge up more negativity, either new stuff or just the same ol'.

I was referring to the article itself, not so much the fact that they are with Sony. I agree that they can't logically lie with one manufacturer and say how its console will fail because of this and that .

 

[captive]

Seriously, this happens to all 3 platforms and their vendors equally.

Uh, no it doesnt. I havnt seen a single incorrect fact about the Wii, or the 360.
I havnt seen a single oversensatialized article about the Wii or 360.
I guess you dont recall any of these:
"oh my GOD!!! the ps3 is going to set your ****ing house on fire JFC!!!!"
"Dude WHAT THE **** the games are going go be 100 dollars!!!!"
"Hey man did you hear once you put a PS3 game in your drive you cant use it on any other PS3, and you cant rent PS3 games anymore"
"Your PS3 is going to add 100 dollars a month to your electric bill"
etc etc.

I seriously shudder to think at what would have went down, if the PS3 had half the hardware failures and problems that the 360 had last year when it launched.


PS this thread is at 15 pages? Jesus, someone just lock it ffs.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Uh, no it doesnt. I havnt seen a single incorrect fact about the Wii, or the 360.
I havnt seen a single oversensatialized article about the Wii or 360.
I guess you dont recall any of these:
"oh my GOD!!! the ps3 is going to set your ****ing house on fire JFC!!!!"
"Dude WHAT THE **** the games are going go be 100 dollars!!!!"
"Hey man did you hear once you put a PS3 game in your drive you cant use it on any other PS3, and you cant rent PS3 games anymore"
"Your PS3 is going to add 100 dollars a month to your electric bill"
etc etc.

I seriously shudder to think at what would have went down, if the PS3 had half the hardware failures and problems that the 360 had last year when it launched.


PS this thread is at 15 pages? Jesus, someone just lock it ffs.

You must not read very many threads then, the 360 especially took a shit-kicking around here.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The PS2's first year was actually quite good.

SSX
Twisted Metal: Black
MGS2
GTA3
Tekken
Next-gen Madden

and ending that first year with GTA3.

That's off the top of my head.

It was quite popular among Dreamcast fans to deride the PS2 laucnh and first year, but it was actually quite good.

Your overall point about there being a backlash against general Sony hype is somewhat true, but it's not as if Sony made the worst console ever and everybody praised it at the PS2 release.

For the record, I had a Dreamcast from launch day. PS2 blew it away once it got over its launch drought, and even the launch had several spectacular games.

I don't agree...but then I was in Tokyo and decided to get a launch system while I was there and had a US one paid off before release...I had very different expectations of the software for the system. Keep in mind, this is my personal view of that first year versus every other console I've had from launch. Sky Odyssey, Tekken Tag, and Onimusha was it for me that year, BTW, as I don't count GTA III being inside the first year (though it was released four days before the end of the first year in NA)...that was the glorious beginning of the second year. Anyway, that's my take on that launch year. So much positivity surrounding the system in the press that it was really sickening. Very, very little cynicism or critiquing going on for the longest time despite the weak lineup, IMO.

 

[Pureauthor]

Uh, no it doesnt. I havnt seen a single incorrect fact about the Wii, or the 360.
I havnt seen a single oversensatialized article about the Wii or 360.
I guess you dont recall any of these:
"oh my GOD!!! the ps3 is going to set your ****ing house on fire JFC!!!!"
"Dude WHAT THE **** the games are going go be 100 dollars!!!!"
"Hey man did you hear once you put a PS3 game in your drive you cant use it on any other PS3, and you cant rent PS3 games anymore"
"Your PS3 is going to add 100 dollars a month to your electric bill"
etc etc.

I seriously shudder to think at what would have went down, if the PS3 had half the hardware failures and problems that the 360 had last year when it launched.


PS this thread is at 15 pages? Jesus, someone just lock it ffs.

Oh, please. I wasn't around GAF for the X360's early days, but I was around in reader status when the Wii/Revolution info began to fly. And the shitstorms were brutal to wade through.

 

[captive]

Oh, please. I wasn't around GAF for the X360's early days, but I was around in reader status when the Wii/Revolution info began to fly. And the shitstorms were brutal to wade through.

The difference is now and at the time of the Wii and PS3 launch, the Xbox and Wii are the darlings. All those things i listed all happened within a month of the PS3s launch and since after.
And im talking about actual articles from actual "journalists" not your average jackass on the interwebs.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The difference is now and at the time of the Wii and PS3 launch, the Xbox and Wii are the darlings. All those things i listed all happened within a month of the PS3s launch and since after.
And im talking about actual articles from actual "journalists" not your average jackass on the interwebs.

So actual journalists in their actual articles wrote:

"oh my GOD!!! the ps3 is going to set your ****ing house on fire JFC!!!!"
"Dude WHAT THE **** the games are going go be 100 dollars!!!!"
"Hey man did you hear once you put a PS3 game in your drive you cant use it on any other PS3, and you cant rent PS3 games anymore"
"Your PS3 is going to add 100 dollars a month to your electric bill"

Come on now, stop being silly. The PS3 has taken more shit than the other two systems for sure, but to deny they have taken any shit at all? That's blindness, man. Remember broken TVs and wriststraps? Remember 'consumable' microtransactions?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm not sure how to respond, but...

1) I haven't seen any NYT articles full of slant, omissions, and mistakes about the 360 or Wii
2) Even so, would that make it OK to let that stuff slide? I didn't read a lot of threads about 360 or Wii, but I did defend the DS when being bashed about its graphics once or twice.

 

[captive]

So actual journalists in their actual articles wrote:


Come on now, stop being silly. The PS3 has taken more shit than the other two systems for sure, but to deny they have taken any shit at all? That's blindness, man. Remember broken TVs and wriststraps? Remember 'consumable' microtransactions?

Broken TVs were done at "wiihaveaproblem.com"
The wrist straps ill give you, except they werent oversensatialized.

The main one, was the PS3's overheating at TGS, which never cited a source, but that article was picked up by quite a few "reputable" sources.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I'm not sure how to respond, but...

1) I haven't seen any NYT articles full of slant, omissions, and mistakes about the 360 or Wii
2) Even so, would that make it OK to let that stuff slide? I didn't read a lot of threads about 360 or Wii, but I did defend the DS when being bashed about its graphics once or twice.

Ignatz, I have absolutely no problem with people standing up against misinformation. And in fact, that's what I'm doing right now - standing up against the misinformation that Wii and 360 haven't had any misinformation or 'doom n gloom' spread.

captive, the broken TVs made the general media. My step-dad, uncles, and grandfather wouldn't let me hook up the Wii when I went back home at Xmas without considerable assurances that their TV wouldn't be smashed. That's actually the first thing they knew about the Wii.

I'm not arguing the PS3 hasn't had shit spread...it obviously has. But you said that Wii and 360 had not one single wrong fact reported, and you're plainly wrong.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Ignatz, I have absolutely no problem with people standing up against misinformation. And in fact, that's what I'm doing right now - standing up against the misinformation that Wii and 360 haven't had any misinformation or 'doom n gloom' spread.

Oh, yeah, no worries. I winced when I read that, as obviously there has been some shit spread around about all the systems. It does irk me when people make it all sound equal, though.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I don't agree...but then I was in Tokyo and decided to get a launch system while I was there and had a US one paid off before release...I had very different expectations of the software for the system. Keep in mind, this is my personal view of that first year versus every other console I've had from launch. Sky Odyssey, Tekken Tag, and Onimusha was it for me that year, BTW, as I don't count GTA III being inside the first year (though it was released four days before the end of the first year in NA)...that was the glorious beginning of the second year. Anyway, that's my take on that launch year. So much positivity surrounding the system in the press that it was really sickening. Very, very little cynicism or critiquing going on for the longest time despite the weak lineup, IMO.

The leap you make:

Worst first year for you personally = PS2 only succeeded that first year due to hype.

That's a logical fallacy. That's why I listed several titles which were well received (good reviews and big sellers) as a counter.

I also omitted Onimusha, Ace Combat, Ridge Racer, Jak and Daxter. That was a good first year, but most standards. PS2 was hyped to the heavens, no doubt, but it also delivered a lot of content in its first year.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

My god reading this thread makes me ashamed to be a gamer you guys need to do something productive with your lives.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Ignatz Mouse you just need to get out of here this thread doesnt deserve your time.
There are a lot of great posters in here trying to contain this thing I wouldnt bother with it guys.

 

[Oblivion]

come now though - Sony have had a marvelous run with the media for the last 10 years or so.

Although i agree that many sources/boards are going way over the top with the hate - you only have to look back to E3 2005 and see the same level of ferocious overstated fawning over sony and what the PS3 can do (which, as it turned out, didn't really turn out as planned) from board members and the media which, in the same way recent news is, was way over the top.

i think sonyfanboys need to grow a thicker skin and just rise above it all. But it seems they can't because they want to win every single battle.

the painting of sony as some victimized cripple is very difficult to take seriously.

Well said. Seriously, if you look back at the things that happened to the Wii (specs revealed, name revealed, etc) and the 360 (Japanese launch, defective units, Peter Moore, etc) you'll realize that they were attacked relentlessly as well.

I personally have zero problems with a person's console preferences, and feeling the need to defend that console. However, let's try and discuss this within the bounds of reality. Sony has been chastised and ridiculed since they delayed the Spring launch, but most of the stuff they brought on to themselves, and had this been any of the other 2, the attacks would have been just as merciless.

 

[BuzzJive]

I thought I'd go for what he really wanted - despite the fact that he really did start the fanboy stuff and list wars himself. And yes - my bias is Nintendo slanted - as I grew up loving the systems and I've spent my time in the industry programming Wii software. Without any more preface crap...

1. Home & Little Big Planet
These should be 2 different things really...

Home
I was at the keynote when he announced this thing - and I really just wasn't feeling it at all. Not once did I really think of this as my Neal Stephenson Snow Crash (one of my favorite books of all time - by definitely my favorite author of all time) ‘Metaverse’. All I could see was a networked Sims game with more advertising propaganda than I could take in. Wandering in to a movie theater to watch a trailer might be fun once. Visiting an apartment to hang out will be like stopping by a chat room with creepy animated 3d models. Setting up my own apartment with some Sony bling doesn't appeal to me at all. He states that "In short, Home is exactly what the online console community needs", which is about like saying that Second Life is exactly what the internet communit needs. It's a different version of the community, and one that might appeal to some people, but I wouldn't say it's what the community "needs". If you honestly spent 2 years trying to come up with a way to do a networked sims game with chat rooms and plug in content, and couldn't figure it out, I can understand why you'd be disappointed in yourself.

And the "Mii Too" jab at the end is very childish. Setting up a Mii to your liking and setting up a Home Avatar to your liking are certainly 2 very different things. Both have their own pros and cons, but I wouldn't simply dismiss the Mii's. For Nintendo to add a Mii Apartment with some Mii Chat isn't that hard to imagine - considering it would be a lot like an Animal Crossing house. I personally think the stylized Mii characters have more appeal, but arguing opinions is pretty pointless. Overall, Home is an interesting idea, but me not really digging it is hardly the same thing as spinning it as a "bad thing", and definitely doesn't make me a viral marketer.

Little Big Planet
This looks amazing from a technical standpoint. My initial reaction was WOW. But when I really started to look at the demo level they put together, I realized just how few great designs really will come out of this. But regardless of that, user generated content HAS been done on consoles before at least once that I know of, in TimeSplitters Future Perfect. Users uploaded hundreds of levels - including story mode levels with objectives and actual scripting in there (since you never played the game, here's a link to see how many maps people uploaded). It's certainly limited, but not unusable. I had a lot of fun putting a story level together and sharing it with my buddies. And yes - you could play them with your friends and put them out there to rank and whatnot. LBP is definitely taking it to the next level, but it's not as brand new as you make it sound, and it's not something that other games on other systems can't or won't do. They do have the might of Sony behind them though - so people will hear about it for sure. If I end up with a PS3, I will certainly pick up LBP, but I'm not ready to say it's the biggest thing next gen.

2. Free Online
Free Online is certainly a plus - but this sensationalist $270 thing is unnecessary. It's been pointed out that it's like 13 cents a day - which may be worth it to some people. Developers can set up dedicated servers on XBL if they want, most just choose not to. You also say online matchmaking is inconsistent, and then claim Resistance as a shining example of how it can be done. Well how does that compare to other PS3 online games? Is it consistent? (I honestly don't know - but I assume it is not "consistent" at this point). And heck - Wii will eventually have Free Online. It won't be near what the PS3 will offer, but it will offer online gaming with your friends. Is anything more than that worth the extra $350 difference to get a PS3? (that last line may have some sarcasm in it BTW)

3. 50GB Games
Will the average gamer be able to tell the difference between a 9GB game and a 50GB game? Developers - heck yes. Harcore gamers - if they really look. Casual gamers - not so much. I'm pro 50GB, but I don't think it's much of a factor in the "winner" of next gen. There were games that looked better, sounded better and were longer than Ratchet and Clank, but that didn't make your games any less fun.

4. Casino Royale
A very very large majority of movies sold over the next 3 years (your 2010 deadline) will be in DVD format. I just disagree that there will be a large enough shift over to BlueRay - even if it does win the format war.

5. HDMI
Well - the 360 has it now if consumers really want it that bad - so I suppose I'll skip this point.

6. Standard HDD
It's nice. Microsoft screwed up. But again, did the standard HDD in the Xbox help it to win last gen? A game that uses the HDD isn't necessarily more fun than a game that doesn't.

7. Wii Fad
It's hard to formulate a valid response to this because there's no facts to argue against. This really is the only way to downplay the success of the Wii though - so I guess it made sense to put this in. But as the Chief Creative Officer of a game development company, the fact that you can't look at the Wii and envision innovative next gen experiences that could capture gamers hearts and make it more than a fad just makes me sad.

8. Major CPU advantage
Again - will the average gamer be able to tell the difference? Did it help Microsoft last gen? Does it make games more fun? As a developer - I understand the excitement. As a gamer - meh.

9. PS2 outselling the 360
This is a "sony won last gen - sony wins this gen" arguement, which is full of flaws. Atari once dominated. Nintendo once dominated. Sony might not dominate again. Price is a huge reason as to why the PS2 is still selling great, and the PS3 will seemingly never have a price advantage. Are there some great games in there too? Sure. But there's great games on just about every platform. MAYBE people will want to play God of War 3. Or MAYBE people will want to play Gears of War to see what that's all about instead. The people buying a PS2 now aren't going to be a large factor in the 2010 deadline of yours.

10. Something for everyone
For about the price of a PS3, I can essentially get a 360 and a Wii. That covers both dynamics of your range pretty nicely. That also lets me let my kids play some great E rated games on the Wii while I play some great M rated games on the 360. Hows that for something for everyone?



The end is a bit dramatic here. But I'm going to strike back by saying that those shifting resources from PS3 development will be fine - as there will be plenty of userbase to target on either other platform. They won't be "losing money" any more than Insomniac is "losing money" by not having a 360 version of Resistance.


MEH - there goes my lunch break....

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The leap you make:

Worst first year for you personally = PS2 only succeeded that first year due to hype.

That's a logical fallacy. That's why I listed several titles which were well received (good reviews and big sellers) as a counter.

I also omitted Onimusha, Ace Combat, Ridge Racer, Jak and Daxter. That was a good first year, but most standards. PS2 was hyped to the heavens, no doubt, but it also delivered a lot of content in its first year.

Let's just agree to disagree. My view of it being the worst first year of software is my own view on it, now as it was then. But let's be clear: I did not mean to say that the PS2 only succeeded because of the enormous amount of hype. I should've been clear on that point. It succeeded by riding its predecessor's past success in an empty next-gen market where their hype overshadowed all else (DC). So extreme in its positivity was the hype, despite severe software deficiencies, it was given a pass on it until such time that bringing up those same negatives would be inconsequential and, likely, untrue. Not by design or anything, just how it worked out. My original point, before I got lost in ye olde Sega fandom, was that the hype that helped them before with the PS2, has now turned against them a bit. I credit Sony's choice of price point and a more cynical press (and public) who probably looked back at the writings just prior to launch of the PS2 and collectively threw up.

 

[hoverX]

i really don't like sony, but i have to say, he makes some really valid points.

 

[D.Cowboys]

LOL i love how Ace Combat is now a bastion of xbox 360 awesomeness.
I seriously wonder how many xbox fans had even heard of the game before last week.

Probably the same amount of sony fans that were actually playing Virua Fighter series on the saturn and dreamcast, before it became a sony console exclusive.

The fact is, Ace combat is on 360, why wouldn't someone list it? If Gears hit PS3 and looked better than on 360, you would be a fool not bring it up in an arguement.

 

[Fady K]

I wouldnt exactly agree about what he said on the Wii - with stuff like Wii sports, and other stuff like it, yeah sure, it wears off quickly - it sure did with me.

But with other actual "games" like Super Paper Mario and No More Heroes, the experience should be great.

Otherwise, I agree with his points

 

[elostyle]

stuff

I agree with you pretty much.

 

[ksamedi]

The problem with the Wii statement is that he assumes that the SAME people go out and buy the Wii every month, and finally get bored of Wii sports and dont buy the Wii anymore. The fact is that when you bring a Wii to somebodys house, the chance is big that its a instant hit. This is somehow viral, once people get infected with the Wii virus, they buy it and show it of to there own friend group and they get infected as well. Its not a fad, its called mouth to mouth advertisement. Saying people will get bored of it could be true for current owners who dont have any other game than Wiisports, but that doesnt mean they cant go out and buy another game or wait for future game releases. But even if the user is bored with Wiisports, its still a blast to play with friends and expecially to show of to other people who havent esperienced it before, thus spreading the virus.

 

[Kintaro]

Guys, check this out. I played some games today. They were pretty good cool too!

 

[DCharlie]

Kintaro - good god, you game fanboys make me sick.

Buzzlive basically said everything there is to be said IMO.

"Sony publishes and distributes Insomniac’s games worldwide and provides fantastic support in all areas – production (including testing and localization), marketing, and public relations."

hmmm....

 

[ROFL]

Wow, 15 pages later...
Ok I might to have to jump in on this little somewhat off-topic item concerning Ted:

Absolutely calling him a liar. He toed the company line, which every unbiased system warrior knew was complete bullshit. He shilled himself. Nothing to be proud of, that's for sure.

To be fair, you were responding to a vaguely worded quote from another post, and I do think Ted's comment was potentially open to misinterpretation, so this is not meant to be a condescending or clever response. But some of you folks on here seem to have misunderstood what Ted was saying with that, and call him what you will (Sony shill, etc, whatever) he his not a liar.
Actually I found the part about it being a lot of effort to implement rumble pretty surprising myself. Being a mere artist I'm unfamiliar with the ins and outs of such things so I asked him about it...
He explained patiently that getting the rumble to work is not simply a matter of hooking it up to trigger each time you take a hit. It requires a LOT of finessing to tweak each amount of rumble you get depending on the strength of the collision, to create just the right amount of variety and nuance. Since there's no way of simply entering some numeric values and knowing that's going to feel right, it inevitably involves hours and hours of testing and tweaking.
In other words, he was saying that as a developer that was a lot of work to put in with relatively little discernible reward, even though obviously it was absolutely beneficial to the game. That is NOT the same as "Meh, we don't need it, to hell with the gamers" or "Sony told us rumble's out of fashion now, and we believe them". It actually demonstrates Insomniac's awareness of what players appreciate / expect and the efforts Ted goes through to deliver the most fun experience possible (given the constraints as a relatively small independent developer without unlimited resouces).
The fact that we couldn't include rumble in Resistance was entirely out of our hands, so Ted was literally saying - ok since we can't do anything about it in any case, from a production point of view WE aren't going to miss it all that much. (But we probably hope it will be back some time...?)
Of course a tiny off the cuff remark like that is going to get everyone all hot and bothered on the internet forums...

Why do I know this post isn't going to have the slightest effect on anything?
:lol


(Regarding the actual topic of this thread, I have my own little pet theory...
I think Brian woke up one morning and thought to himself ok, that's it! No more Mr. Happy Nicey Insomniac! Letting all those geeks out there say whatever they want and we always behave all polite and humble and respectful. What we need is someone to get up and say it how it is! Like the Rubins, Jaffes... Dyacks... of this world!
You have to admit, he must have known there'd be this kind of s***storm stirred up so the man has 'cahunas', as you like to say.
Now if only he'd just skipped point no. 7... those Wii fans are vicious, merciless...)

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Blah blah blah. Thinker skin is one thing, but I'm personally resigned to PS3 taking a much smaller role this gen than PS2 in the past, and blame nobody but Sony for that. But the ridiculous anti-Sony slant in the press is unreasonable and needs to be called out form time to time.

- Incorrect facts
- skewing of price comparisons (to take today's example)
- ignoring positives
- low scores for games which deserve better, even if they aren't GOTY material
- nitpicking very weird little stuff

When does it end? Next Next Gen? If so, so be it. But when somebody calls it out, don't be surprised/outraged/flabergasted about it. Look at all the people up in arms and offended by this blog post. Who needs the thinker skin?

Bingo. And how soon people forget the 360 launch period on GAF, you practically couldn't get by a MS related thread without some poor martyr for the cause complaining about the bias and hate for their favorite console. Somehow I don't recall some of the very same posters on here complaining about "thicker skin" back then though. Funny how that works.

It's the way these ridiculous fanboy wars go. Proprietary software is a motherf*cker.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I might act like a complete fanboy sometimes, but I usually act that way just to mess with people. I am a fan of Nintendo, though. How could I not be? I grew up with them!

But, I like the other two consoles, too. They each have their perks. Really, I'm only against Sony right now. I just don't agree with their philosophies, and I don't want their ideas spreading to other consoles ($600, things like that).

Either way, though I'd like to see Nintendo come out on top this time, I don't want it to be by THAT much. Running companies out of the market is never, ever, good for gaming as a whole. And hey, I like my games, so....

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Somehow, I think he knew how internet fanboys were going to respond when he made that list. And now, he's probably reading GAF and laughing his ass off.

 

[Aisenherz]

I thought I'd go for what he really wanted - despite the fact that he really did start the fanboy stuff and list wars himself. And yes - my bias is Nintendo slanted - as I grew up loving the systems and I've spent my time in the industry programming Wii software. Without any more preface crap...

1. Home & Little Big Planet
These should be 2 different things really...

Home
I was at the keynote when he announced this thing - and I really just wasn't feeling it at all. Not once did I really think of this as my Neal Stephenson Snow Crash (one of my favorite books of all time - by definitely my favorite author of all time) ‘Metaverse’. All I could see was a networked Sims game with more advertising propaganda than I could take in. Wandering in to a movie theater to watch a trailer might be fun once. Visiting an apartment to hang out will be like stopping by a chat room with creepy animated 3d models. Setting up my own apartment with some Sony bling doesn't appeal to me at all. He states that "In short, Home is exactly what the online console community needs", which is about like saying that Second Life is exactly what the internet communit needs. It's a different version of the community, and one that might appeal to some people, but I wouldn't say it's what the community "needs". If you honestly spent 2 years trying to come up with a way to do a networked sims game with chat rooms and plug in content, and couldn't figure it out, I can understand why you'd be disappointed in yourself.

And the "Mii Too" jab at the end is very childish. Setting up a Mii to your liking and setting up a Home Avatar to your liking are certainly 2 very different things. Both have their own pros and cons, but I wouldn't simply dismiss the Mii's. For Nintendo to add a Mii Apartment with some Mii Chat isn't that hard to imagine - considering it would be a lot like an Animal Crossing house. I personally think the stylized Mii characters have more appeal, but arguing opinions is pretty pointless. Overall, Home is an interesting idea, but me not really digging it is hardly the same thing as spinning it as a "bad thing", and definitely doesn't make me a viral marketer.

Little Big Planet
This looks amazing from a technical standpoint. My initial reaction was WOW. But when I really started to look at the demo level they put together, I realized just how few great designs really will come out of this. But regardless of that, user generated content HAS been done on consoles before at least once that I know of, in TimeSplitters Future Perfect. Users uploaded hundreds of levels - including story mode levels with objectives and actual scripting in there (since you never played the game, here's a link to see how many maps people uploaded). It's certainly limited, but not unusable. I had a lot of fun putting a story level together and sharing it with my buddies. And yes - you could play them with your friends and put them out there to rank and whatnot. LBP is definitely taking it to the next level, but it's not as brand new as you make it sound, and it's not something that other games on other systems can't or won't do. They do have the might of Sony behind them though - so people will hear about it for sure. If I end up with a PS3, I will certainly pick up LBP, but I'm not ready to say it's the biggest thing next gen.

2. Free Online
Free Online is certainly a plus - but this sensationalist $270 thing is unnecessary. It's been pointed out that it's like 13 cents a day - which may be worth it to some people. Developers can set up dedicated servers on XBL if they want, most just choose not to. You also say online matchmaking is inconsistent, and then claim Resistance as a shining example of how it can be done. Well how does that compare to other PS3 online games? Is it consistent? (I honestly don't know - but I assume it is not "consistent" at this point). And heck - Wii will eventually have Free Online. It won't be near what the PS3 will offer, but it will offer online gaming with your friends. Is anything more than that worth the extra $350 difference to get a PS3? (that last line may have some sarcasm in it BTW)

3. 50GB Games
Will the average gamer be able to tell the difference between a 9GB game and a 50GB game? Developers - heck yes. Harcore gamers - if they really look. Casual gamers - not so much. I'm pro 50GB, but I don't think it's much of a factor in the "winner" of next gen. There were games that looked better, sounded better and were longer than Ratchet and Clank, but that didn't make your games any less fun.

4. Casino Royale
A very very large majority of movies sold over the next 3 years (your 2010 deadline) will be in DVD format. I just disagree that there will be a large enough shift over to BlueRay - even if it does win the format war.

5. HDMI
Well - the 360 has it now if consumers really want it that bad - so I suppose I'll skip this point.

6. Standard HDD
It's nice. Microsoft screwed up. But again, did the standard HDD in the Xbox help it to win last gen? A game that uses the HDD isn't necessarily more fun than a game that doesn't.

7. Wii Fad
It's hard to formulate a valid response to this because there's no facts to argue against. This really is the only way to downplay the success of the Wii though - so I guess it made sense to put this in. But as the Chief Creative Officer of a game development company, the fact that you can't look at the Wii and envision innovative next gen experiences that could capture gamers hearts and make it more than a fad just makes me sad.

8. Major CPU advantage
Again - will the average gamer be able to tell the difference? Did it help Microsoft last gen? Does it make games more fun? As a developer - I understand the excitement. As a gamer - meh.

9. PS2 outselling the 360
This is a "sony won last gen - sony wins this gen" arguement, which is full of flaws. Atari once dominated. Nintendo once dominated. Sony might not dominate again. Price is a huge reason as to why the PS2 is still selling great, and the PS3 will seemingly never have a price advantage. Are there some great games in there too? Sure. But there's great games on just about every platform. MAYBE people will want to play God of War 3. Or MAYBE people will want to play Gears of War to see what that's all about instead. The people buying a PS2 now aren't going to be a large factor in the 2010 deadline of yours.

10. Something for everyone
For about the price of a PS3, I can essentially get a 360 and a Wii. That covers both dynamics of your range pretty nicely. That also lets me let my kids play some great E rated games on the Wii while I play some great M rated games on the 360. Hows that for something for everyone?



The end is a bit dramatic here. But I'm going to strike back by saying that those shifting resources from PS3 development will be fine - as there will be plenty of userbase to target on either other platform. They won't be "losing money" any more than Insomniac is "losing money" by not having a 360 version of Resistance.


MEH - there goes my lunch break....

So with your list, you downplayed everything from his list. :lol :lol Superb job against SONY, my son

 

[USC-fan]

10. Something for everyone
For about the price of a PS3, I can essentially get a 360 and a Wii. That covers both dynamics of your range pretty nicely. That also lets me let my kids play some great E rated games on the Wii while I play some great M rated games on the 360. Hows that for something for everyone?

John Rodman agrees!