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[phants]

I don't want to stop this.

I want the world to get over this idea that everyone must work for a living to bring value to their lives.

I'd rather move head on into the society where people don't have to work to live vs crawling and snatching at every turn trying to hold onto the old ways of needing jobs.

This, a thousand times this. I feel like I'm screaming into the wind every time this comes up. Society needs to move past this idea that we are defined by our work.

Yes, the transition will be painful. But it's going to happen whether you want it to or not, and we can reduce the pain it causes / decrease the time it takes by focusing on how we get there, instead of trying to stop it from happening.

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Indeed. It is not really a hard system to make if you compare it to their current system. They're not replacing cashiers, they're replacing their Amazon zombies.

Yep, let the customers pick their own orders

 

[timetokill]

I think this sounds awesome but unfortunately it seems tech is outpacing politics which can only lead to some real fucking hard times

 

[Vhalyar]

This is absolutely fantastic.

I do groceries 3-4 times a week since I usually decide on what I want for dinner + next lunch late in the day. This would be such a nice time saver.

 

[UrokeJoe]

This has been coming for a while. It's freaking crazy that it is just around the corner now.

 

[Foffy]

When something gest automated some jobs are lost and others get created too, education is fundamental because of this. On the long run at least.

The problem we face, if the concerns of Jeremy Howard are anything, is that this change we face with technology will, at minimum, be like the Industrial Revolution.

That took 70 years to stabilize. Think of all of the precarious living and poverty that produced, and realize so long as we don't be proactive about caring for others, we will see suffering on a tremendous level.

And mind you, Howard said at minimum. I think much like he and Sam Harris have said regarding technology is that it's an inevitable climb forward, for there's nothing about human beings from the level of information processing that cannot eventually be replicated via technology, which means the climb could just keep happening and cutting up more and more labor. There's no vitalistic qualities in human beings, despite the special snowflake myths we give ourselves.

We must be careful to not assume that this will just create new pockets of labor when a good deal of CEOs said their companies future is with less workers, not more...

 

[x3sphere]

Sam's Club already has something like this... you can scan items as you shop and just pay for them via your phone.

Although you still have to show the person your receipt as you leave the store. But still, it avoids going through the checkout line.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Sam's Club already has something like this... you can scan items as you shop and just pay for them via your phone.

Although you still have to show the person your receipt as you leave the store. But still, it avoids going through the checkout line.

Case-in-point of the technology being used for profiting the elite instead of providing for the masses. They're not cutting payroll to reward cardholders or help employees.

 

[littlebigman]

Re: Everyone complaining about job loss

Just because there are no checkouts doesn't mean there won't be any human employees. Somebody has to stock those shelves, answer customer questions, sweep the floors, gather carts, etc. Also, these are new stores, not old ones that have been redesigned, so all those staffers that will be hired to maintain the stores will be new jobs.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I think this sounds awesome but unfortunately it seems tech is outpacing politics which can only lead to some real fucking hard times

Yep. The wealthy who own automated businesses with slim to none human employees will get richer, while the lower to mid-lower class who rely on near minimum wage jobs like cashiers, cab drivers, truck drivers, (pretty much anyone in the transportation business) and those types of jobs will suffer and be out of work

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Re: Everyone complaining about job loss

Just because there are no checkouts doesn't mean there won't be any human employees. Somebody has to stock those shelves, answer customer questions, sweep the floors, gather carts, etc. Also, these are new stores, not old ones that have been redesigned, so all those staffers that will be hired to maintain the stores will be new jobs.

I sincerely doubt companies are going to move people from behind the register to onto the floor. They will just use it as an opportunity to cut payroll.

 

[Totakeke]

Pro tip: Technologies get adopted because they bring convenience to the people using them. In other words, people using them actually do benefit.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Re: Everyone complaining about job loss

Just because there are no checkouts doesn't mean there won't be any human employees. Somebody has to stock those shelves, answer customer questions, sweep the floors, gather carts, etc. Also, these are new stores, not old ones that have been redesigned, so all those staffers that will be hired to maintain the stores will be new jobs.

Right, we're not knocking Amazon for making new facilities, we're worried that established and immoral retailers will use it as a way to further fuck over their workforce for a profit. This has been proven time and time again: if there's a shortcut to take or a regulation to skirt asshole outfits like Wal-Mart will do it. Crossing your fingers and placing all your hope on the idealistic view that people will just be moved around or go to college is pretty naive.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Amazon, come to Manhattan where we need this.

I'm tired of waiting in line for half a freaking hour at Trader Joes. Especially when all I wanted was like three groceries.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Pro tip: Technologies get adopted because they bring convenience to the people using them. In other words, people using them actually do benefit.

Just because something is convenient for the person using it doesn't absolve that person/the process of the damage it creates. It's convenient for me to throw garbage out of my car window but I'm an asshole creating problems for other people if I do. This "fuck you, got mine" type of thinking is going to lead the masses to poverty and ruin.

Amazon, come to Manhattan where we actually need this.

I'm tired of waiting in line for half a freaking hour at Trader Joes. Especially when all I wanted was like three groceries.

That's on Trader Joes for not managing their payroll properly to manage rushes/long lines. Notice how in all of the stores that take forever to check out at there are like two open registers? It's because management is being cheap, not because cashiers are outdated.

 

[Kinitari]

Re: Everyone complaining about job loss

Just because there are no checkouts doesn't mean there won't be any human employees. Somebody has to stock those shelves, answer customer questions, sweep the floors, gather carts, etc. Also, these are new stores, not old ones that have been redesigned, so all those staffers that will be hired to maintain the stores will be new jobs.

I think people look at stuff like this as a sort of, canary in the coal mine. You can look at self driving cars and say 'but look, all the self driving cars on the road now still have drivers' but you're selling their implication short.

When I worked at best buy, operations was the department that did customer service and check-out - this would drastically shrink that department.

But take it a step further. Let's say a company pops up that will be able up 'convert' your existing brick and mortar to something like this? That would be pretty big, and you can bet there are people looking into stuff like that right now - of course it wouldn't come up fruition for years, but what are a few years in the grand scheme of things?

And then by the nature of software heavy systems, it will iterate and improve over time. Other technologies will also come in and integrate with systems like this. Imagine something that automatically creates deals and sales custom tailored to the customer as well? That's more realizable with a system like this, and if it gets good enough, you don't need salespeople as much. What about shelf stockers? Amazon themselves are working on robots that can better handle and move around packages in their warehouses, and not just them. When what's realized, that will also fit right in nice and neatly with a system like this. What about if/when mixed reality headsets become the next smartphone? Eventually they won't even bother putting prices on the shelves - the prices will just appear over top the item. Etc etc

All these things are currently being worked on independently by many different companies, competing to get it just right. In five years from now, all of these separate areas of technological pursuit will look completely different than they do today.

When people see stuff like this, it's really just a reminder of what's coming. This one store isn't itself going to do very much, but the question that comes up is the what if. What if this is a success?

 

[Totakeke]

Just because something is convenient for the person using it doesn't absolve that person/the process of the damage it creates. It's convenient for me to throw garbage out of my car window but I'm an asshole creating problems for other people if I do. This "fuck you, got mine" type of thinking is going to lead the masses to poverty and ruin.

How old are you? Serious question.

P.S.: Based on my experience I've seen far more white cashiers than minorities manning the cashiers.

 

[reckless]

Re: Everyone complaining about job loss

Just because there are no checkouts doesn't mean there won't be any human employees. Somebody has to stock those shelves, answer customer questions, sweep the floors, gather carts, etc. Also, these are new stores, not old ones that have been redesigned, so all those staffers that will be hired to maintain the stores will be new jobs.

Yeah but each store needs a lot less employees with technology like this. And yeah right now its new stores, but once this proves successful it will spread to old stores leading to huge losses in jobs.

 

[Nostremitus]

Has anyone posted the old "shoplifter" in a grocery store commercial yet?

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

How old are you? Serious question.

P.S.: Based on my experience I've seen far more white cashiers than minorities manning the cashiers.

Old enough to not fall into the trap you're trying to set, and you're experience sounds like privileged bullshit: "fuck you, my neighborhood is fine, whatever". Public policy shouldn't be based on the anecdotal gut-feelings of the few; see also: the 2016 election.

The fact that my use of the word "minorities" immediately made you think of race is telling.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

(full transcript)

I think a lot of people missed this bit.

But the cashiers cannot make the robots. They do not know IT, mechanics, engineering, physics etc.

And you cannot replace 100% of cashiers with 100% of robot building engineers elsewhere, it just does not add up.

There will be heavy, heavy losses in the job market when this becomes widespread and materialises. The job hemorrhage will be tremendous.

 

[Totakeke]

Old enough to not fall into the trap you're trying to set, and you're experience sounds like privileged bullshit: "fuck you, my neighborhood is fine, whatever". Public policy shouldn't be based on the anecdotal gut-feelings of the few; see also: the 2016 election.

Mmmhmm, go on. How does this relate to the 2016 election?

 

[Pakkidis]

I am going to safely assume there will be security guards located in front of the store to ensure everybody turns on their cell phone before shopping? What happens when I turn off my cell phone while shopping? What if the person standing right beside me picks up an item and it gets charged to me?

I foresee people already trying to game the system.

 

[NullPointer]

But the cashiers cannot make the robots. They do not know IT, mechanics, engineering, physics etc.

And you cannot replace 100% of cashiers with 100% of robot building engineers elsewhere, it just does not add up.

There will be heavy, heavy losses in the job market when this becomes widespread and materialises. The job hemorrhage will be tremendous.

Oh we're in total agreement on this.

We're speeding towards a future where we're going to need to re-evaluate the very foundations of society. Automation and ubiquitous AI are major upheavals in the making.

As a programmer I've automated away quite a few jobs myself, but I've always justified it as automating away the worst of the mindless and rote jobs, and leaving the real human work to the humans, but will we even have enough of that work available to sustain our economic games? And how many will be completely left behind?

Very strange and tumultuous days ahead.

 

[Auron_Kale]

I actually like this concept and can't wait to see it pop up in more locations.

I also like that the Apple Store also has something similar to this: scan and buy an item that you need on your phone through the app, walk out without having to wait for a cashier to ring you up. I do this often and usually notify the security guard or an employee that I've paid, which saves a lot of time and headache.

 

[Kinitari]

I am going to safely assume there will be security guards located in front of the store to ensure everybody turns on their cell phone before shopping? What happens when I turn off my cell phone while shopping? What if the person standing right beside me picks up an item and it gets charged to me?

I foresee people already trying to game the system.

These are the sorts of questions that are immediately asked in the product planning lifecycle, and I imagine there are a few proposed solutions. I don't think you necessarily need to keep your phone on, for example - it sounds like a lot of the tracking is done via camera, once you 'login', it's set. You can't get into the store without logging in. If you manage to, the cameras will be able to flag your immediately and let people know. Additionally I imagine that any disputes on purchases can be identified and cleared. I imagine the history of any item in the store is kept, and you can just align the pick up/purchase with the camera feed and have a human double check. If it's at all ambiguous, I imagine the idea is to refund the money. In line with Amazon's usually forgiving return policy.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Just because something is convenient for the person using it doesn't absolve that person/the process of the damage it creates. It's convenient for me to throw garbage out of my car window but I'm an asshole creating problems for other people if I do. This "fuck you, got mine" type of thinking is going to lead the masses to poverty and ruin.

Analogy doesn't work. One person throwing trash out of their car window provides a benefit to the individual at the expense of everyone. Automated checkout provides benefit to large group at expense of small group.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Analogy doesn't work. One person throwing trash out of their car window provides a benefit to the individual at the expense of everyone. Automated checkout provides benefit to large group at expense of small group.

Oh well that makes it OK then, as long as the proportions are right the upper class can fuck over the lower class for the sake of convenience. Thanks for clearing that up!

If you want to go into equivalencies, in what universe is "I want to spend less time at the grocery store" more important than providing people with a job to provide for themselves and their family? Again, "fuck you, got mine" mentality.

 

[kingocfs]

My local grocery store (Stop & Shop) has allowed customers to check out their own items for years. I walk in, grab a scanner, scan everything I add to my bags and check out myself at a computer screen. I don't have to talk to a single person, and the lines for these computers are much shorter than the rest. Nobody checks my bags, either.

Nobody should be surprised that this is happening.

 

[Kinitari]

Oh well that makes it OK then, as long as the proportions are right the upper class can fuck over the lower class for the sake of convenience. Thanks for clearing that up!

If you want to go into equivalencies, in what universe is "I want to spend less time at the grocery store" more important than providing people with a job to provide for themselves and their family? Again, "fuck you, got mine" mentality.

Well it gets more complicated than that. Let's imagine that this gets implemented so well that you see prices drop because of smaller overhead and less shrink (this is for the sake of argument) - does that now seem beneficial enough that it seems like a net positive to society? When do you think it becomes clear that something is morally good? When is it no longer 'fuck you got mine', and instead 'cool, this is better'? And in the end who gets to decide? The industrial revolution fucked a LOT of people - should it not have happened?

 

[HoodWinked]

im sorta thinking about how this actually works and i feel like there has to be a sensor on each item similar to the security tags on game boxes. they still have some cost but i guess it may be offset by not having to pay cashiers. but because its a static cost per item it would be bad for lower cost items since it would be a larger percentage of the item's cost. so it may skew prices in a weird way cheaper items would be more expensive while more expensive items wouldn't be affected.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

How old are you? Serious question.

P.S.: Based on my experience I've seen far more white cashiers than minorities manning the cashiers.

And where do you live?

This will affect low/middle class families. If more stores and companies adopt this, the need for cashiers will go away. "But they still need stockers/etc." is not a valid deflection. Amazon does because theyre opening new locations. But if Target/Wal-Mart adopt this, thousands if not millions will lose their jobs. New jobs arent going to be created from this. And the government isnt in a position to introduce a guaranteed income for people who dont have jobs.

 

[Jharp]

Haha, the keyboard warriors on this site are so rich. Go ahead and pretend like this should be outlawed because jerbs. I hope you also refuse to use a smart phone because it was made by a Chinese teenager for fifty cents a day rather than a millennial in Chicago for eight bucks an hour.

 

[Totakeke]

And where do you live?

This will affect low/middle class families. If more stores and companies adopt this, the need for cashiers will go away. "But they still need stockers/etc." is not a valid deflection. Amazon does because theyre opening new locations. But if Target/Wal-Mart adopt this, thousands if not millions will lose their jobs. New jobs arent going to be created from this. And the government isnt in a position to introduce a guaranteed income for people who dont have jobs.

In US I've lived in the middle of nowhere Iowa and NYC, visited various other areas from time to time.

 

[Creaking]

So how about that basic income, huh?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

In US I've lived in the middle of nowhere Iowa and NYC, visited various other areas from time to time.

You say you see alot of white cashiers. So location is a huge factor in that. At my store for example the majority of cashiers are hispanic and black, I live in Cali for instance.

 

[Totakeke]

You say you see alot of white cashiers. So location is a huge factor in that. At my store for example the majority of cashiers are hispanic and black, I live in Cali for instance.

Sure, I did say based on my experience. Are you making a claim that minorities will be the main ones affected by Amazon Go? Because I sure didn't make the opposite claim.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Sure, I did say based on my experience. Are you making a claim that minorities will be the main ones affected by Amazon Go? Because I sure didn't make the opposite claim.

Apparently the other person wasnt using minority in a racial sense.

So you tell me.

 

[mm04]

This isn't eliminating jobs at Amazon's stores because those cashier positions will never exist to begin with. We'll see how other stores react to it. Even then, who knows how long it will take others to fall in line with it?

 

[BoosterDuck]

I hope you also refuse to use a smart phone because it was made by a Chinese teenager for fifty cents a day rather than a millennial in Chicago for eight bucks an hour.

Smartphone manufacturing can be automated

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

One step closer to Skynet.

 

[Totakeke]

Apparently the other person wasnt using minority in a racial sense.

So you tell me.

And I was using what I believe to be the more common definition of minorities. Not sure what you're trying to point out here than "Aha! You didn't read his mind.".

 

[n0razi]

So, wait, you use this at brick and mortar stores that have no real association with Amazon or...? I feel like I don't really understand how this works

They are making their own retail stores where you dont have to interact with a single person and lower prices than Walmart

Yeah, no cashiers or "how may I help you" type individuals, but they're gonna need plenty of stocking personnel.

Robots will do those jobs faster, cheaper, and more efficiently. You might need a team of customer support/service probably and thats it.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

That's on Trader Joes for not managing their payroll properly to manage rushes/long lines. Notice how in all of the stores that take forever to check out at there are like two open registers? It's because management is being cheap, not because cashiers are outdated.

Not in my area. The one in Chelsea that I usually go to has around 16 registers, always staffed. The problem is they need like twice that many, and I suspect that adding more is an issue of space more than staffing. Welcome to Manhattan—hence why we need this here.

(And the other grocery stores here have the same problem btw... the reason it annoys me somewhat less is that they at least have express lines)

 

[Waaghals]

That is incredibly cool technology.


But it is also dangerous. People need jobs, we can't all be PR advisers.

 

[Joyful]

i fully expect america to embrace automation but also be the last place to expect an income without working

 

[Frozenprince]

Yeah America is not ready nor is it going to BE ready for automation eliminating 30% of the work force.

It's going to destroy the global economy, because nobody is going to be ready for this, at all. And nobody has even begun the first steps in preparing for it.

Going to be a brutal next few decades.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I've said this before, unless you're over 50, you will see dramatic changes in your lifetime.

Nothing is stopping this train and sadly, the US will be dragged kicking and screaming into coming up with economic policies in dealing with workers displaced by automation.

Edit: Frozenprince get's it.

 

[Purkake4]

I can kind of see having a cheap automated Walmart thing and then more local people-run bakeries, butcher's, farmer's markets, etc. for a bit more expensive but nicer stuff.

 

[Gattsu25]

Holy shit.

Tell me about it. This is going to cost millions of jobs across the globe within a decade or so.

Fuck.