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[Phantast2k]

There is no evidence to support a claim that Iran is developing nukes though. This could be applied to anyone developing missiles. It's nothing to go to war over, for sure. Iran wants missiles to defend from an obvious enemy that just tried to sack syria.

Nukes are just bargaining chips. Iran wants to sell its resources to markets like anyone else.

Hmm, your posts seem misleading.

They've been caught breaching the deal several times over the course of the last year: Iran once again exceeds a nuclear deal limit: IAEA report | Reuters
Those breaches appear to be minuscule, but their occurrences repeat. Something that leads me to believe that they are absolutely still perusing nukes.

Apart from the deal itself their ballistic missile tests could be interpreted as a breach of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231 - Wikipedia

Iran is called upon not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology

They like to boast about too: Iran Increasing Production of Ballistic Missiles | Farsnews

His remarks came as the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) fired 2 home-made 'Qadr H' ballistic missiles from the Eastern Alborz Mountains at a target in Iran's Southeastern Makran seashore some 1400km away in March.

The missiles were fired on the sidelines of the main stage of the IRGC drills in Central Iran and various parts of the country.

One missile had a message written on it that said in Hebrew: "Israel should be wiped off the Earth".

Qadr is a 2000km-range, liquid-fuel and ballistic missile which can reach territories as far as Israel.

The missile can carry different types of ‘Blast’ and ‘MRV’ (Multiple Reentry Vehicle) payloads to destroy a range of targets. The new version of Qadr H can be launched from mobile platforms or silos in different positions and can escape missile defense shields due to their radar-evading capability.

A Multiple Reentry Vehicle payload for a ballistic missile deploys multiple warheads in a pattern against a single target. (As opposed to Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle, which deploys multiple warheads against multiple targets.) The advantage of an MRV over a single warhead is that the damage produced in the center of the pattern is far greater than the damage possible from any single warhead in the MRV cluster, this makes for an efficient area attack weapon. Also, the sheer number of Warheads make interception by Anti-ballistic missiles unlikely.

Improved warhead designs allow smaller warheads for a given yield, while better electronics and guidance systems allowed greater accuracy. As a result MIRV technology has proven more attractive than MRV for advanced nations. Because of the larger amount of nuclear material consumed by MRVs and MIRVs, single warhead missiles are more attractive for nations with less advanced technology. The United States deployed an MRV payload on the Polaris A-3. The Soviet Union deployed MRVs on the SS-9 Mod 4 ICBM.

Read the last paragraph. It appears like they're taunting people with that.

And I don't see any reason to believe that they intend to develop those missiles for defensive purposes only. Not just because of the directs threats to Israel, but also because of their active involvement in several civil wars and stuff like this: IRGC Commander: Iran-Made Missiles Belong to Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq | Farsnews

For people who don't know, Farsnews is basically an Iranian state news outlet:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fars_News_Agency

While I don't approve a war against them, Iran is neither overtly nor covertly a peaceful nation simply looking to defend itself - i.e.: the way you appear to represent them in your posts.

 

[Zibrahim]

It's crazy how one man has made things go from chill to a Mexican standoff.


In less than two weeks...

 

[Mesousa]

It's crazy how one man has made things go from chill to a Mexican standoff.


In less than two weeks...

Not really. Iran is asking for somebody to smack them down. Only reason people are taking note now because, hypothetically, Trump is the guy crazy enough to finally oblige them.

 

[Zibrahim]

Not really. Iran is asking for somebody to smack them down. Only reason people are taking note now because, hypothetically, Trump is the guy crazy enough to finally oblige them.

If I'm remembering correctly, they started the tests after retaliating with an American ban to the Muslim ban, no?

 

[pulsemyne]

If I'm remembering correctly, they started the tests after retaliating with an American ban to the Muslim ban, no?

Nope they have been piddling about with missile launches ever since the deal. This is largely because certain elements oppose the deal and others support it. So you have one group trying to keep the deal going while another wants to derail it. The revolutionary guard in particular.
So at lot of this is people trying to power play their way in Irans political/religious government.
Also it's really dumb to do this with Trump as president. The guys itching to cause trouble.

 

[Phantast2k]

If I'm remembering correctly, they started the tests after retaliating with an American ban to the Muslim ban, no?

No.
11.10.2015
09.03.2016
09.05.2016

 

[commedieu]

Hmm, your posts seem misleading.

They've been caught breaching the deal several times over the course of the last year: Iran once again exceeds a nuclear deal limit: IAEA report | Reuters
Those breaches appear to be minuscule, but their occurrences repeat. Something that leads me to believe that they are absolutely still perusing nukes.

Apart from the deal itself their ballistic missile tests could be interpreted as a breach of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2231 - Wikipedia


They like to boast about too: Iran Increasing Production of Ballistic Missiles | Farsnews



Read the last paragraph. It appears like they're taunting people with that.

And I don't see any reason to believe that they intend to develop those missiles for defensive purposes only. Not just because of the directs threats to Israel, but also because of their active involvement in several civil wars and stuff like this: IRGC Commander: Iran-Made Missiles Belong to Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq | Farsnews

For people who don't know, Farsnews is basically an Iranian state news outlet:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fars_News_Agency

While I don't approve a war against them, Iran is neither overtly nor covertly a peaceful nation simply looking to defend itself - i.e7.: the way you appear to represent them in your posts.

I didn't declare them peaceful. I said they want to sell natural resources, and defend themselves against a specific enemy. They've got a right to defend themselves and othera feel the same way which is why they haven't been severely punished for testing weapons. They received their money back from the Obama administration for their commitment to not developing nuclear weapons.

Iran having a nuke isn't a threat to world peace. Literal nazis becoming bigger and stronger is. Trumping up an invasion to destroy muslims, is something well worth defending against.

I'm on Iran's side on this one.

Being peaceful isn't a prerequisite for much these days. especially not politics. Things Iran is guilty of, are things my own a nation is guilty of as far as arms. And Israel isn't excluded from that common ground either. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel, because Israel would nuke iran. It's 2017. We can't keep falling for WMD invasions of the wrong country.

We should disable Saudi Arabia''s terrorism funding and supprt. But we dont. Because of politics. I think it's a fair game Iran is playing, if the western world leads by example

 

[mugoldeneagle03]

This is all going to lead to war. US will call them out again, Iran will keep testing missiles. Russia will probably make the first move. Do we really think Trump will be able to hold himself back?

We are fucked.

 

[Sunster]

This is all going to lead to war. US will call them out again, Iran will keep testing missiles. Russia will probably make the first move. Do we really think Trump will be able to hold himself back?

We are fucked.

Russia is Iran's ally

 

[mark-san]

"Only seven minutes is needed for the Iranian missile to hit Tel Aviv," senior member of the Iranian parliament's National Security and Foreign Policy Commission and former Revolutionary Guard official, Majtaba Zonour, told semi-official Fars News Agency Saturday.

http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran...3RTlDRTU5MEQxQ0RERDI4OEIwREUwNEZGMERENzA3Qzc=

Yeah, sure, let Iran run free with their tests. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Silent Chief]

It's no coincidence that the countries banned by Trump are all under Iranian influence.

 

[Kolx]

I didn't declare them peaceful. I said they want to sell natural resources, and defend themselves against a specific enemy. They've got a right to defend themselves and othera feel the same way which is why they haven't been severely punished for testing weapons. They received their money back from the Obama administration for their commitment to not developing nuclear weapons.

Iran having a nuke isn't a threat to world peace. Literal nazis becoming bigger and stronger is. Trumping up an invasion to destroy muslims, is something well worth defending against.

I'm on Iran's side on this one.

Being peaceful isn't a prerequisite for much these days. especially not politics. Things Iran is guilty of, are things my own a nation is guilty of as far as arms. And Israel isn't excluded from that common ground either. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel, because Israel would nuke iran. It's 2017. We can't keep falling for WMD invasions of the wrong country.

We should disable Saudi Arabia''s terrorism funding and supprt. But we dont. Because of politics. I think it's a fair game Iran is playing, if the western world leads by example

I wouldn't call exporting their shitty revolution by supporting listed terrorist groups that call for the wipeout of the jews and 'death to america' a country that is just defending themselves. They have been caught countless times destabilizing countries all over the ME and breaking the international law regarding many issues. When they stop letting their fanatics run their policies, and waging secterian wars everywhere they may earn the right to have a nuclear arsenal.

 

[Pagusas]

but they have no nukes and no way to create them because they are following the stipulations of the deal.

You believe that?

 

[commedieu]

I wouldn't call exporting their shitty revolution by supporting listed terrorist groups that call for the wipeout of the jews and 'death to america' a country that is just defending themselves. They have been caught countless times destabilizing countries all over the ME and breaking the international law regarding many issues. When they stop letting their fanatics run their policies, and waging secterian wars everywhere they may earn the right to have a nuclear arsenal.

And they are held responsible and sanctioned for their actions. Just as they have currently. Iran isn't going to bomb israel. Israel has nukes. Iran isn't a threat to America, or its destabilized neighbors that we've destabilized.

If doing bad things was grounds for action, we wouldn't be best friends with Saudi Arabia who is currently pulling off a genocide in yemen.

Iran isn't worth the deaths of American soldiers, or any really. When they cross that line they'll be destroyed but you have to cross a line and show the international community you need to be dealt with militarily. We are no where near that zone.

I'm not supporting more wars over wmds. Because that argument is bullshit. We aren't going to invade Iran for supporting terrorism either. We want their shit and our president made it clear. We want to destabilize he middle east and foes of Israel as previous administrations have done. American intervention is not about what is right vs wrong.

We've done this already.

 

[goodfella]

I hope I'm wrong but I think a war with Iran is inevitable. It's not just Trump either. This has been long in the making. Even Hillary has gone on record that she would attack Iran if she were to become president.

That seems out of context and misleading

 

[Kolx]

And they are held responsible and sanctioned for their actions. Just as they have currently. Iran isn't going to bomb israel. Israel has nukes. Iran isn't a threat to America, or its destabilized neighbors that we've destabilized.

If doing bad things was grounds for action, we wouldn't be best friends with Saudi Arabia who is currently pulling off a genocide in yemen.

Iran isn't worth the deaths of American soldiers, or any really. When they cross that line they'll be destroyed but you have to cross a line and show the international community you need to be dealt with militarily. We are no where near that zone.

I'm not supporting more wars over wmds. Because that argument is bullshit. We aren't going to invade Iran for supporting terrorism either. We want their shit and our president made it clear. We want to destabilize he middle east and foes of Israel as previous administrations have done. American intervention is not about what is right vs wrong.

We've done this already.

What about other countries that doesn't have nukes? Every other country except Israel in the ME is either going to get fucked or is going to start a race to get a neclear weapon. Iran is going to pull even more shit because they did try to destabilize countries in the ME and they wilk keep trying to and they won't stop until their rvolution controlls every country around them, and then use nuclear weapons as a bargaining chip whenever they feel like it.
They're controlled by people who actually think of the US and Israel as something that should be wiped out and I'd rather them not to have it for the seek of the ME and the entire world.
US had problem with Iran since their Islamic revolution. It started way before Trump and will continue way long after him. Trump have evil reasons for envading Iran which he should't do but that doesn't mean they're not evil or that they have the right to own WMDs or be anywhere near that.

 

[Nerazar]

Russia is Iran's ally

Half-ally, since Russia is trying to treat them like subjects beneath them. But if something were to happen, Moscow would side with Iran, that is true.

I see Trump escalating everything pretty quickly - where are the "Warmonger Hillary" criers now? I hope in their bunker...

 

[Sunster]

You believe that?

I'll pm you to say I was wrong when it's proven otherwise.

 

[goodfella]

What about other countries that doesn't have nukes? Every other country except Israel in the ME is either going to get fucked or is going to start a race to get a neclear weapon. Iran is going to pull even more shit because they did try to destabilize countries in the ME and they wilk keep trying to and they won't stop until their rvolution controlls every country around them, and then use nuclear weapons as a bargaining chip whenever they feel like it.
They're controlled by people who actually think of the US and Israel as something that should be wiped out and I'd rather them not to have it for the seek of the ME and the entire world.
US had problem with Iran since their Islamic revolution. It started way before Trump and will continue way long after him. Trump have evil reasons for envading Iran which he should't do but that doesn't mean they're not evil or that they have the right to own WMDs or be anywhere near that.

What revolution is this? First I've heard of it. (That sounded snarky and it really wasn't meant to be)

 

[Condom]

http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran...3RTlDRTU5MEQxQ0RERDI4OEIwREUwNEZGMERENzA3Qzc=

Yeah, sure, let Iran run free with their tests. What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah because Iran is going to commit suicide by attacking Israel for no reason at all so the US should just rip them off their sovereignty and kill their people preemptively.


Why would Iran attack Israel if it isn't for self-defense reasons? Do some really believe they are just 'evil'? Like comic book characters?

 

[Phantast2k]

Russia is Iran's ally

Not really. Putin would jump for joy if Iran was bombed by Trump or went to war with Saudi Arabia.

I didn't declare them peaceful. I said they want to sell natural resources, and defend themselves against a specific enemy. They've got a right to defend themselves and othera feel the same way which is why they haven't been severely punished for testing weapons. They received their money back from the Obama administration for their commitment to not developing nuclear weapons.

No you didn't. Your posts seem to cast them in that light though, but I'm not going to have a fight over it.
The Obama administration also miscalculated Syria and was rather soft on Russia until it was too late. So I wouldn't see them as a benchmark. But even the Obama admin. saw Iran's tests as a threat: Dec 30, 2015: U.S. President Barack Obama's administration is preparing new sanctions on international companies and individuals over Iran's ballistic missile program, sources familiar with the situation said on Wednesday. (...) | Reuters. They just went soft on it because they didn't want to endanger the nuclear deal (this is btw. probably something Trump used as a draft for his sanctions).
It's not just Obama admin. either:
Mar 30, 2016 Exclusive: Iran missile tests were 'in defiance of' U.N. resolution - U.S., allies | Reuters

Iran's recent ballistic tests involved missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons and were "inconsistent with" and "in defiance of" council resolution 2231, adopted last July, said the joint U.S., British, French, German letter to Spain's U.N. Ambassador Roman Oyarzun Marchesi and U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon.

The letter said the missiles used in the recent launches were "inherently capable of delivering nuclear weapons." It also asked that the Security Council discuss "appropriate responses" to Tehran's failure to comply with its obligations and urged Ban to report back on Iranian missile work inconsistent with 2231.

Iran having a nuke isn't a threat to world peace. Literal nazis becoming bigger and stronger is. Trumping up an invasion to destroy muslims, is something well worth defending against.

I'm on Iran's side on this one.

Iran acquiring a nuke is absolutely a threat to world peace.
First of all they've signed the NPT. So Iran acquiring a nuke would weaken that treaty further. More countries could follow suit and MAD doesn't really work with asymmetrical threats (unlike for instance NATO vs Soviet Union or India vs Pakistan).

More importantly, gulf countries see a nuclear armed Iran as an existential threat, more so than Israel since it has second-strike capabilities. Saudi Arabia would pack their pockets full of money and race to acquire nukes too.
Iran also has interest abroad (Shia crescent) and ready to engage in wars over it, so it's not like those (super duper defensive) nukes wouldn't have any impact on their posture on the Arabian peninsula and Levant.
All of this reeks of a huge Shia vs Sunni war and Iran vs Iraq wars show how bloody those can go. So in the interest of not killing Muslims, Iran shouldn't be allowed nukes.

Being peaceful isn't a prerequisite for much these days. especially not politics. Things Iran is guilty of, are things my own a nation is guilty of as far as arms. And Israel isn't excluded from that common ground either. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel, because Israel would nuke iran. It's 2017. We can't keep falling for WMD invasions of the wrong country.

We should disable Saudi Arabia''s terrorism funding and supprt. But we dont. Because of politics. I think it's a fair game Iran is playing, if the western world leads by example

In the grand scheme of things US basically awarded Iraq, a majority Shia country ruled by Sunni minority, to Iran while doing nothing to the same end (or rather the contrary) in Syria (Sunni majority, Shia minority ruled). This already is a great rift in the Shia vs Sunni conflict. Allowing Iran to run away with nukes (and advanced ICBMs) would completely sink the region into chaos.

As much as I despise Trump there is nothing inherently wrong in slapping Iran with sanctions for a breach of a security council resolutions on nuke-capable ballistic missiles. It remains to be seen if this is really a first step to bombing Iran.

 

[Wenger'sBakedBaguettes]

So Iran did something the US do regularly except when Iran does it it's "bad" and a "provocation" while one of the biggest exporters of terrorism and atrocities across the world only do it for good reasons. The "white man" surely wouldn't do these tests for ulterior motives despite their warmongering history across the world; they are always in the good with noble intentions.

U.S. Air Force test-fires intercontinental ballistic missile across Pacific

US nuclear missile test: What's the purpose?

 

[reckless]

Can't wait for the war with Iran, it'll make the Iraq war look like a joke.

Between Flynn and Bannon wanting the war and Trump/Iran's leadership getting in pissing contest it'll probably happen within a year or two.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Can't wait for the war with Iran, it'll make the Iraq war look like a joke.

Between Flynn and Bannon wanting the war and Trump/Iran's leadership getting in pissing contest it'll probably will happen within a year or two.

Paul Ryan is on board too, so even if we manage to impeach Trump the republicans are still going to do it. Conservatives learned absolutely nothing from Iraq.

 

[guek]

You believe that?

Within reasonable limits, yes. Iran may be continuing to do secret research but nuclear testing can't be done without being easily detected.

 

[Sunster]

Paul Ryan is on board too, so even if we manage to impeach Trump the republicans are still going to do it. Conservatives learned absolutely nothing from Iraq.

Iraq wasn't a disaster to those who got paid

 

[Jack The Nipper]

I can see trump announcing going to war with someone. It's like a premonition in my brain.

 

[Azih]

Iran and the US have such minimal trade and relations anyway that further unilateral sanctions don't mean jack to Iran. Trump is doing the equivalent of jumping up and down and making loud noises to sound threatening.

 

[Haines]

So is usa kind of like Korea now with its empty threats? Is that what's happening?

 

[Azih]

So is usa kind of like Korea now with its empty threats? Is that what's happening?

Pretty much. The nuclear sanctions really hurt Iran as EU countries were involved as well. These aren't that and there's no way master negotiator Trump is going to convince any other country to cooperate with the US on new sanctions.

 

[reckless]

So is usa kind of like Korea now with its empty threats? Is that what's happening?

Well unlike Best Korea we actually have the capability to follow through on our threats.

 

[commedieu]

Not really. Putin would jump for joy if Iran was bombed by Trump or went to war with Saudi Arabia.


No you didn't. Your posts seem to cast them in that light though, but I'm not going to have a fight over it.
The Obama administration also miscalculated Syria and was rather soft on Russia until it was too late. So I wouldn't see them as a benchmark. But even the Obama admin. saw Iran's tests as a threat: Dec 30, 2015: U.S. President Barack Obama's administration is preparing new sanctions on international companies and individuals over Iran's ballistic missile program, sources familiar with the situation said on Wednesday. (...) | Reuters. They just went soft on it because they didn't want to endanger the nuclear deal (this is btw. probably something Trump used as a draft for his sanctions).
It's not just Obama admin. either:
Mar 30, 2016 Exclusive: Iran missile tests were 'in defiance of' U.N. resolution - U.S., allies | Reuters




Iran acquiring a nuke is absolutely a threat to world peace.
First of all they've signed the NPT. So Iran acquiring a nuke would weaken that treaty further. More countries could follow suit and MAD doesn't really work with asymmetrical threats (unlike for instance NATO vs Soviet Union or India vs Pakistan).

More importantly, gulf countries see a nuclear armed Iran as an existential threat, more so than Israel since it has second-strike capabilities. Saudi Arabia would pack their pockets full of money and race to acquire nukes too.
Iran also has interest abroad (Shia crescent) and ready to engage in wars over it, so it's not like those (super duper defensive) nukes wouldn't have any impact on their posture on the Arabian peninsula and Levant.
All of this reeks of a huge Shia vs Sunni war and Iran vs Iraq wars show how bloody those can go. So in the interest of not killing Muslims, Iran shouldn't be allowed nukes.


In the grand scheme of things US basically awarded Iraq, a majority Shia country ruled by Sunni minority, to Iran while doing nothing to the same end (or rather the contrary) in Syria (Sunni majority, Shia minority ruled). This already is a great rift in the Shia vs Sunni conflict. Allowing Iran to run away with nukes (and advanced ICBMs) would completely sink the region into chaos.

As much as I despise Trump there is nothing inherently wrong in slapping Iran with sanctions for a breach of a security council resolutions on nuke-capable ballistic missiles. It remains to be seen if this is really a first step to bombing Iran.

Thanks for replying. Ballstic missiles would help them fight off American sponsored rebels, or any other threats they have. They are a nation and they have the tech to build them. That's the defense I'm talking about, its not a right or wrong, but a defense of their interests. Im not promoting a iran secret nuclear weapons program like israel. Who started the whole arms race. Why not sign NPT,and just do them in secret? Once you have them people don't say shit. That's the precident.

They are getting sanctioned, and I agree that if that's what you agreed to, those are the tules. But I also know that the pressure om iran isn't an effort to police and fight for the justice of the people.

Based on our actions the the United States wants to bomb iran, ask John mccain. As well as destabilize the middle east to the benefit of our allies, one which is participating in a genocide as we speak. S.A.( who doesnt need nukes when they've got us refueling their planes and our military at their disposal. They get the benefits of nukes. Having everyone know the USA has your back no matter what.) The gop and deMs both fall in line with this. As have previous administrations. Just as they wanted regime change in syria. With or without nukes this has been the wests playbook.

If we didn't have this exact pattern in the region I wouldn't feel this way. It's the same familiar story. I'd say we are definitely on the side that is closer to bombing Iran than we were last administratiom. With Islamophobia at a high as well as the rise of the right.

You paint the picture of security Council violations, then the need for troops to show up. A lot of bombs drop, and we leave. Then contractors show up that are friends with he administration.

Thanks for the education too. It definitely makes me rethink a few positions. I just have a bias of our interventions leading to losses that aren't really just.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Mannn, I hope that no one will be provoked far enough by Trump to actually push their finger on that "Launch missile to <country> here" in the future. What a scary thought.

 

[TheRealTalker]

I didn't declare them peaceful. I said they want to sell natural resources, and defend themselves against a specific enemy. They've got a right to defend themselves and othera feel the same way which is why they haven't been severely punished for testing weapons. They received their money back from the Obama administration for their commitment to not developing nuclear weapons.

Iran having a nuke isn't a threat to world peace. Literal nazis becoming bigger and stronger is. Trumping up an invasion to destroy muslims, is something well worth defending against.

I'm on Iran's side on this one.

Being peaceful isn't a prerequisite for much these days. especially not politics. Things Iran is guilty of, are things my own a nation is guilty of as far as arms. And Israel isn't excluded from that common ground either. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel, because Israel would nuke iran. It's 2017. We can't keep falling for WMD invasions of the wrong country.

We should disable Saudi Arabia''s terrorism funding and supprt. But we dont. Because of politics. I think it's a fair game Iran is playing, if the western world leads by example

you know Iran funds the Taliban right?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-backs-taliban-with-cash-and-arms-1434065528

and even Al Qeada at times
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/8/al-qaedas-iran-connection/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/10/opinion/bergen-iran-al-qaeda/
and the list goes on and on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

I mean they use militants for proxies like some other countries


then they have all those new groups they formed in Syria from Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Mobilization_Forces
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.4bfb6fc2a1fd



they aren't clean at all

----



but YES going to war with Iran would be a Terrible idea


the regime can be scummy but War would just destroy the region even more... cause another vacuum and only bring fourth a destroyed future generations of children who lack education, food, and security

 

[nephilimdj]

That seems out of context and misleading

Obama was caught training Jundallah, its not shocking that Hillary would continue

 

[TyrantII]

Nuclear Israel doesn't want Iran to develop a secret weapons program like they did. America is their attack dog, and Trump wants irans resources.

They are within their rights legally to build and test weapons as long as they aren't building nuclear bombs.

They reduced their nuclear material, and have their nuclear power program monitored by the iaea. That is what the Iran deal was about. Noting forbids them from building defenses.

They are abiding by their side of the deal. That's why they got their held monies back.

Also, these actions are pushed by the hardliner faction. There's some irony that the hard right in both countries keep trying to push each other's buttons.

They're natural allies, because they both want antagonistic relations and even war to bolster their own power.

 

[TheRealTalker]

the funny thing is

the Iranian regime would LOVE for the US to attack them

since they've been egging them and their allies for a long time


it would make their citizens rally with the regime and create a pseudo enemy to distract them from reality


same thing happened with the Iraq-Iran War when Saddam foolish fueled the fire and took the bait

their whole revolutionary doctrine all about spreading the revolution instead of sitting back and actually developing their country

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I've seen nothing from Trump's admin that they want to avoid war.

All they need to do is mention WMD's again.

 

[NimbusD]

Nope they have been piddling about with missile launches ever since the deal. This is largely because certain elements oppose the deal and others support it. So you have one group trying to keep the deal going while another wants to derail it. The revolutionary guard in particular.
So at lot of this is people trying to power play their way in Irans political/religious government.
Also it's really dumb to do this with Trump as president. The guys itching to cause trouble.

But also the deal doesnt forbid them from carrying out regular ole missle tests. Just so long as they aren't designed to hold nuclear warheads. Iran is claiming they're not designed for that as they don't have a program.

Honestly it calls to find out more about what's happening to make sure ti's not going against the deal... But I don't expect Trump's administration to see details like that. to them, Iran would have to completely dismantle their military and swear fealty to the USA in order for them to even consider not continually escalating things to war.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Honestly I'd love to see what'd happen if all of us, not us here, but the respective countries in the region acknowledged all our past faults and tried to find ways to move forward. Try and get all the past bullshit off the table. Past coups, shot down airliners, embassy hostages, just all of us on all sides owning up to what we've done and try and forge a new way out of this mess instead of trying to find ways out of this mess within the confines of not admitting our past and trying to save face. Why it's still considered weak by many Americans to even acknowledge our past transgressions, let alone apologize and try and undo them, I'll never know. These things were done decades ago, why still be shackled by them? I feel we have a hand in it all and can't really fault Iran for trying to survive and fight back in a scenario we've largely made ourselves and I hate that we're as much trapped into this bullshit as they are despite it largely being our own making.

 

[StrategyFan]

These things were done decades ago, why still be shackled by them?

i too wish people would move on, but "decades ago" is practically current events for these people

i'm uncertain of the details, but a lot of the conflict revolves around some special land in Jerusalem which is contentious because of mythological agreements from millennia ago

 

[Gnome Scat]

Thanks, Trump.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Honestly I'd love to see what'd happen if all of us, not us here, but the respective countries in the region acknowledged all our past faults and tried to find ways to move forward. Try and get all the past bullshit off the table. Past coups, shot down airliners, embassy hostages, just all of us on all sides owning up to what we've done and try and forge a new way out of this mess instead of trying to find ways out of this mess within the confines of not admitting our past and trying to save face. Why it's still considered weak by many Americans to even acknowledge our past transgressions, let alone apologize and try and undo them, I'll never know. These things were done decades ago, why still be shackled by them? I feel we have a hand in it all and can't really fault Iran for trying to survive and fight back in a scenario we've largely made ourselves and I hate that we're as much trapped into this bullshit as they are despite it largely being our own making.

Because the ego of the country thinking it's the best thing in the universe. Acknowledging we weren't perfect ruins the illusion. Everyone wants to be the perfect textbook hero in their heads.

 

[SolarPowered]

Honestly I'd love to see what'd happen if all of us, not us here, but the respective countries in the region acknowledged all our past faults and tried to find ways to move forward. Try and get all the past bullshit off the table. Past coups, shot down airliners, embassy hostages, just all of us on all sides owning up to what we've done and try and forge a new way out of this mess instead of trying to find ways out of this mess within the confines of not admitting our past and trying to save face. Why it's still considered weak by many Americans to even acknowledge our past transgressions, let alone apologize and try and undo them, I'll never know. These things were done decades ago, why still be shackled by them? I feel we have a hand in it all and can't really fault Iran for trying to survive and fight back in a scenario we've largely made ourselves and I hate that we're as much trapped into this bullshit as they are despite it largely being our own making.

This stubbornness, thirst for power, lack of acknowledgement and aggression is hardwired into all of us down to the genetic level and in some cases it becomes even more entrenched in large groups and organizations. It took centuries for Europe to learn to cooperate. Look forward to many more until the world is on the same page (if we don't ruin the world with climate change, that is).

 

[GARlockSpiral]

We're on the precipice of another round of ultimate fuckery.

All cactus, no lube, no mercy.

 

[jellies_two]

Paging Tony Blair!
Need some of your British authority and props to explain the clear and present danger Iraq (sorry iran today) is to the free world.

 

[Kickz]

We're on the precipice of another round of ultimate fuckery.

Yea I don't like where this is going...

 

[Madness]

I've never understood why the US should be allowed nukes, but not other countries, tbh.

Iran is a theocratic and repressive authoritarian state that openly threatens to anhilate Israel, they write Hebrew on missiles etc. Iran has every right to develop a domestic defense program. The US has every right to sanction them because it threatens their allies. This is the nature of power and military might.

The same reason a Nuclear North Korea is unwelcome, same goes for Iran. Same reason why Russia won't tolerate Kazakhstan, Ukraine or Georgia in NATO.

The US is allowed nuclear weapons because they developed them and used them against other states and aside from Russia, no other state would ever challenge them. Are you really asking why other countries cannot have nukes? Pakistan is very close to being a danger in that their entire northern region with Afghanistan is destabilized and full of militants and yet they have more nuclear weapons than India. What happens if one falls into the wrong hands? If it wasn't for Trump, we were entering a period of little nuclear development. He wants to restart the nuclear arms race because he is an idiot.

Also, Iran wants nukes because Israel is likewise an existential threat to them with their own nukes. You always want parity with your enemies. It is why China wants a forward operating base in the south china sea, aircraft carriers and carrier killing missiles.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I thought missile testing wasn't actually against the nuclear agreement, being a nuclear agreement? Many countries develop missile and radar capabilities.

I couldn't find a direct ban in the source text, but it's part of the sanctions related to the agreement:

1. Arms

1. Sanctions on arms (Articles 1(1)(c), (3) and (4), and 3 of Council Decision
2010/413/CFSP; Articles 5(1)(a) and (c), 17(1) and (2)(a), and 19 of Council Regulation
(EU) No 267/2012); and

1. Sanctions on associated services for the category above (see the references above).

1. Listing of persons, entities and bodies (asset freeze and visa ban)

1. Asset freeze and visa ban measures applicable to:

1. listed Iranian banks and financial institutions, including the Central Bank of Iran;
2. listed persons, entities and bodies related to the oil, gas and petrochemical sectors;
3. listed persons, entities and bodies related to shipping, shipbuilding and transport;
4. other listed persons, entities and bodies not related to proliferation-sensitive nuclear-,
arms- and ballistic missile- related activities;
5. listed persons, entities and bodies related to proliferation-sensitive nuclear-, arms- and
ballistic missile-related activities;

 

[commedieu]

you know Iran funds the Taliban right?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-backs-taliban-with-cash-and-arms-1434065528

and even Al Qeada at times
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/8/al-qaedas-iran-connection/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/10/opinion/bergen-iran-al-qaeda/
and the list goes on and on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

I mean they use militants for proxies like some other countries


then they have all those new groups they formed in Syria from Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Mobilization_Forces
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.4bfb6fc2a1fd



they aren't clean at all

----



but YES going to war with Iran would be a Terrible idea


the regime can be scummy but War would just destroy the region even more... cause another vacuum and only bring fourth a destroyed future generations of children who lack education, food, and security

Iran does bad stuff. Sure. So do our allies. And so do we. Especially funding "rebels: with ties to known terrorist groups. Or cia training fighters to fend off russia... that only become, ah well, you know..

We aren't going after them because doing bad things equate to military intervention. That is all I'm saying. In the world where your last paragraph exists, that's where my mind is at. Iran does dirt. Israel does dirt. Usa, dirt. But only when we want to regime change or invade a country do we start acting holy. They've got a right to play the game as every other nation does and face the repercussions. But Iran isn't about to be invaded because trump gives a shit about sunnis, or anyone that isn't a white nationalist. Iran is next up after yemen syria* Libya Afghanistan and iraq.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1341223&page=1


If we were going to fight Iran because of legitimate reasons sure! And an effort wold be made to help the innocent people involved. Internationally.

Not ban them from entering the country and demonize an entire religion. This is a foe( rising right/anti muslim sentiment/sponsored regime change/and historic fights) worth having some defenses over. They'll be obliterated by the world's most advanced military, but they have to defend themselves.