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Is Hollywood 'whitewashing' Asian roles?
- Thread starter Dram
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cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Ok, here's another one:
The first three are heroes, the last three are villains. I'm not sure how more clear I can make it.
Oh wait, yes I do. Here's the casting call for The Last Airbender:
Read more about it here. In contrast, this is what a typical casting call looks like.
Compare...
Casting call for main cast, The Last Airbender:
Casting call for extras, The Last Airbender:
Nope, not at all.
I wonder if most people actually know what the people in ancient Persia actually looked like? I wonder if being persian = having dark skin, eyes, hair came about because of movies like 300 or because Iran also likes to refer to themselves as Persians too. Do people know that Iran means Land of Aryans?
but he was an alien......from another planet.......that didn't contain asia. how was he asian?
Diving deeper, the Earth in dragonball/z is very different from our Earth. Animal people were common, it didn't really contain any locations from our Earth, etc. did the Earth of DB/Z even contain an asia?
sans_pants
avec_pénis
Hollywood has been white throughout history. America is a majority white country. Audiences are supposed to look at characters and see parts of themselves, so white people's leads makes sense. The foreign markets are even more racist than Americans.
deal with it
deal with it
Be more subtle.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The role of Captain Jack Sparrow should have gone to a real pirate.
Lionheart1337
Member
I hate how they are so willing and proud to avoid the discussion.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
they don't. Americans will not turn out in droves to see them. They can do smaller movies and those are usually pretty unpopular too. Martial arts movies are all they've got
toastyToast
Member
I would have liked to see a Somali Jack Sparrow too
SolidSnakex
Member
I don't think that they're proud of it. The truth is probably a lot worse than the silence.
I can't speak for anybody else, but one of the problems I personally have seen with roles of some Asians is that the roles "embrace" their Asian-ness or something. Like they can't just be Asian...they have to remind you over and over that, yes, they are Asian.
Honestly, a lot of black roles seem to be like that, too.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
could be because the majority of writers and directors are also white. Could also be how audiences want it. I'm from ohio. I had only met maybe 2 Asians by the time I went to college
Lionheart1337
Member
If this is such an unfortunate truth, are we doing ourselves a service by shutting up about it?
So what's defective about white people that makes them unable to relate to movie characters of another race, while black, hispanic and asian people can (because they have to) relate to white characters?
Not sure how to put this other than that the real America actually looks quite different from the rural midwest
You're going to be in for a shock if you ever visit New York City, Miami, or Los Angeles
LQX
Member
How is it a odd expectation? They may be intended to be Asian but they do look it and that has nothing to do with "Asian-as-seen-from-a-non-Asian-POV". Like a lot of anime which someone mentioned they often draw themselves closely resembling white when in fact Asians far the most part have distinctive features that separate there looks from whites.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Japan whitewashes their own stuff.
The short answer would be yes, but it's the most practical thing if you want the movies to sell outside of the niche range in the US. Whether or not it "feels right" depends on how much you adapt the story.
If they're trying to pass it off as the same story, like Akira, then it's just totally ridiculous. The All You Need is Kill situation seems like they're making an almost completely new story that is merely inspired by the anime, sort of like the difference between Ringu and The Ring. A better comparison would be between Infernal Affairs and The Departed, or between Seven Samurai and The Magnificent Seven.
That steps into a whole other complicated discussion of cultural and ethnic facial perception as well as anime production and art styles. But to give you a short answer, no, anime characters are not drawn to look white. They aren't drawn to look like any race.
Y'konw what? Let's go all the way on this one.
Long answer: Anime characters are mostly drawn with relatively little facial detail - usually omitting most of the racial identifiers that we typically associate with Asians. With these racial identifiers gone, we typically see anime characters as ourselves. For most of us that means they look "white" to us. Most Japanese people however say that Anime characters look Japanese to them.
One example is in facial bone structure. Whenever a character on an anime show appears who is indeed western, sometimes they'll be drawn with very angular, detailed cheek and jaw bones which I guess is one of the differences the artists perceive between themselves and white people. Most Japanese anime characters on the other hand are often drawn with rather rounded faces - a facial trait commonly associated specifically with Japanese people.
And the eyes thing is just because over there people tend to pay attention to the eyes the most when reading people's faces. In western cultures people just tend to pay attention to the entire face.
If they're trying to pass it off as the same story, like Akira, then it's just totally ridiculous. The All You Need is Kill situation seems like they're making an almost completely new story that is merely inspired by the anime, sort of like the difference between Ringu and The Ring. A better comparison would be between Infernal Affairs and The Departed, or between Seven Samurai and The Magnificent Seven.
That steps into a whole other complicated discussion of cultural and ethnic facial perception as well as anime production and art styles. But to give you a short answer, no, anime characters are not drawn to look white. They aren't drawn to look like any race.
Japan whitewashes their own stuff.
Y'konw what? Let's go all the way on this one.
Long answer: Anime characters are mostly drawn with relatively little facial detail - usually omitting most of the racial identifiers that we typically associate with Asians. With these racial identifiers gone, we typically see anime characters as ourselves. For most of us that means they look "white" to us. Most Japanese people however say that Anime characters look Japanese to them.
One example is in facial bone structure. Whenever a character on an anime show appears who is indeed western, sometimes they'll be drawn with very angular, detailed cheek and jaw bones which I guess is one of the differences the artists perceive between themselves and white people. Most Japanese anime characters on the other hand are often drawn with rather rounded faces - a facial trait commonly associated specifically with Japanese people.
And the eyes thing is just because over there people tend to pay attention to the eyes the most when reading people's faces. In western cultures people just tend to pay attention to the entire face.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
I live in las Vegas. The majority of the country is white. They don't make movies to sell to a few big cities, they make them to reach the broadest possible audience. Even the foreign markets don't want Asian or black leads (except will smith)
It's not right, but since the inception of Hollywood stars have been associated with white actors. That norm influences the perception of what a movie star should be. Producers only bank on white actors because the entire community fails to move past the mostly white days of Hollywood. The continuation of this practice just reinforces already held beliefs.
I always assumed that they are drawn that way so people have an easiler time differentiating between characters. People on this forum have trouble differentiating between Claymore characters for example.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
they don't want to or have to. Also, because Hollywood has always been white, its just what you expect when you go to the movies.
As far as the hair thing goes, yes that's a big reason. With so little attention paid to the face overall, the eyes and hair typically become the biggest defining traits of an anime character.
That looks like a girl with brown hair and brown eyes in that picture.
The anime style doesn't include too many markers to denote race. Aside from skin tone, typical anime characters, including the one above, are mostly unmarked. You draw some eyes, a nose, a mouth, give it long hair, and voila, it's a girl. A Japanese girl. It doesn't matter that you didn't give her slanty eyes or go out of your way to exaggerate her "Japanese" features. She looks identifiable as a girl, which, when almost everybody you ever come in contact with looks ethnically Japanese, means that you automatically default to viewing her as Japanese. However, when white audiences see that character design, they see that's she's identifiable as a girl. A white girl. There's nothing to uniquely identify her as Japanese, and we see Japanese people comparatively less frequently than white people in most parts of the West, therefore we default to viewing her as white.
When anime and manga artists want to make someone identifiable as being white or American/European, they add obvious modifiers. Unusually large noses, curlier hair, bright yellow blonde hair, blue eyes, more angular face shapes, etc.
Peeps be ignorant. I've had that discussion about PoP several times over. "SAYID SHOULD'VE BEEN CAST!" "NO, THAT ONE DARK SKINNED GUY FROM HEROES WHOSE NAME I FORGOT CUZ I DON'T GIVE A SINGLE FUCK"
You're expecting them to focus on the "distinctive features that separate Asian people from Caucasian people" when they draw Asian characters. Do Caucasian artists focus on such "distinctive features" when they draw Caucasian characters? See RedSwirl's post, as well.
So, yeah, it has everything to do with bias on your part. Sorry.
Extra Sauce
Member
I realize your question is rhetorical but let me answer it to help illustrate my point. If the story of this hypothetical French film had dictated that a character is asian, I'm sure an asian actor would have been cast. Or, maybe a french-speaking actor of asian descent happens to be in the film for no specific reason. But obviously, this being a film set in France most actors are white.
Listen, I understand that white-washing does exist. But I don't think stuff like the failed Akira project is white-washing. Do people expect a 150 million-ish budget Hollywood flick to be shot entirely in japanese? Or maybe to have characters be japanese people who magically happen to speak english?
SolidSnakex
Member
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
This. I grew up in NYC and Friends always boggled my mind. A TV show in one of the most culturally diverse cities on the planet and not even a single non white cast. That shit cray.
I don't think Asian American actors aren't cast as leads in enough films for that to be completely accurate.
I just really hate the argument "white people don't want to see Asian Americans on screen" when Asian American actors aren't given any opportunities. Asian American's, and all people of color, basically have to make their own opportunities to have any shot in Hollywood. It's silly, and it's antiquated.
Hollywood studio heads seem to be 50 years behind the times. Example: ABC's Work It (behind on women's issues, transgender issues, and even the economy) and the aforementioned The Last Airbender.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
there are also zero Asian actors who could carry a 150 million dollar movie
Zoramon089
Banned
Well George Lucas just got a little more respect from me...he's still killing Star Wars with every edit he makes though
What's funny about this is that he doesn't seem to have any problem with exploiting current black stereotype and culture in this film based on what I saw in the trailer.
notsureifserious.jpg
And yes, I read the rest of your post and I'm still not sure if you're serious.
Edit: I have a problem with the quoted statement because the character in question is pretty much the only character in the show with hair and eye tones that bright. It's without a doubt a character that casting people would go back in time for, just to retrieve a younger Dakota Fanning for the role.
This part basically illustrate how Dragon ball character becomes "white" when gaining power.. It's hard to not see this symbolism in DBZ anyway.
But to come back the the thread, i guess if you want big american movies with asian heroes, you'll need to find some A list (or at least bakable) asian actors first.
And precisely, like RedSwirl said, anime and mangas are universal, by their design and by their drawing nature. But a movie with asian actors all the way looks like a foreign movie for most Caucasian people, and foreign movies = niche intellectual movies for most people.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
its the way it is. American audiences know jet li and Jackie Chan, that's it. Maybe if Hollywood tried to create an Asian star they could, but you are talking about an industry that is completely afraid of change and so risk averse all they want to do is make remakes and sequels
Finaika
Member
Ok, here's another one:
The first three are heroes, the last three are villains. I'm not sure how more clear I can make it.
Omg Shyamalan is racist against brown people.
It's not a remake, it's an adaption. The problem comes if they will name the movie "Akira" or not and where it takes place. I probably won't mind it if they name the movie something else though.
If Hollywood can turn Jeremy Renner into a star, they can turn anyone into a star.
It wouldn't. It was going to take place in "Neo-Manhattan".
At that point I wouldn't even call it Akira.
Nope, not at all.
Anyone of these could easily pass for Iranian, not really white-washing imo, more like Americanizing.
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