Captain Europe
Member
People complaining about one more option are childish and shouldn't be catered to.
Is the Pokémon "Are you a boy or girl?" thing outdated?
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People complaining about one more option are childish and shouldn't be catered to.
Simple, have some premade options like plenty of other games as well as a custom. That's no harder than picking boy or girl really.
The only one 'pissed off' here is you, it seems. We're merely pointing out that the game Pokemon could be a lot more inclusive with a minimum of effort.
Nobody's asking for Facebook's custom gender option, or offering a set of 30 different genders. Just make the choice non binary. A, B, neither/both.
Also - yeah, i do believe drivers' licenses should accomodate for non-binary gender. But this is not a driver's license related discussion board.
And i still stand with my statement that someone who gets so hostile about a TINY BIT of added LGBT inclusiveness shouldn't be considering themselves "ALL ABOUT tolerance".
hah, yeah, i realized that after posting, too ... i was trying to find a workaround of the whole " 'what' are you" vs. "how do you want to be addressed". Much better solutions have been posted in this thread
-Mutsukki-
Member
Spanish would be hell with this, but who cares right
GhostTrick
Banned
Let's be honest though, the issue is less about inclusion and more about GameFreak/Nintendo being affraid of giving options.
Whenever it is difficulty setting or customisation, they always have been far behind.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I don't want to think I'm a girl, I want to be a girl who identifies as a girl.
Not solely, I agree, but often in discussions like these people will automatically dismiss/not consider the question without ever having read anything about the experiences of the marginalized group or spoken to people from that group. Such as we see with many of the replies in this thread.
Lord of Ostia
Member
Yes, I do think that contributes somewhat to the issue. I honestly don't think Gamefreak or Nintendo have thought much at all about this issues, to be honest. Very few do, unfortunately, and even fewer people understand.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Then how about you read the rest of my frequent posts in the thread in which I agree
My first post was a little flowery, yeah. But its how I felt when I first opened the thread, clearly I'm learning about stuff that affects different people.
Edit: also my first post isn't based out of hostility. But genuine confusion. Sorry you were triggered.
-Mutsukki-
Member
I couldn't care less if they change the question or not, I'm responding to the nature of OP's question. I won't advocate for it to be like that forever, but I also feel like this is unecessary critiscism
what's with gaf and their absolute lack of spanish knowledge
Maybe, but I feel like that would just overcomplicate a lot of thigs. You can see boy and girl trainer have different animations for Z moves and such. It's clear they're supposed to be portrayed differently
Yeah, totally. Non-binary people all over the world are finding ways to accurately describe their many many genders in their native languages. Even in highly gendered languages.
Soodanim
Member
Time to rephrase it for GAF2016
Are you a boy or a girl?*
*it doesn't fucking matter because you're controlling a character that just walks around and carries what the game is actually about and you can have a boy model or a girl model to control while you do it. We just wanted to be a bit more immersive but that's gone tits up.
Are you a boy or a girl?*
*it doesn't fucking matter because you're controlling a character that just walks around and carries what the game is actually about and you can have a boy model or a girl model to control while you do it. We just wanted to be a bit more immersive but that's gone tits up.
Than you need to root your phone, make a nude mod that works till the chromossome level, than make a bathroom mod and set this bathroom mod in a very transphobic place and THEN, if you manage to enter the bathroom without anyone complaining or arresting you, you will be able to play as a cis girl
It's always funny to read responses from people when these issues are raised. More often than not they will go on about people being easily offended, yet they themselves come off offended that someone would even raise the topic.
I'll say it again, there's no negative to making something more inclusive. I'm yet to hear a compelling argument against making it more inclusive. The majority of responses against doing it seem to be over the top to say the least.
Gravy Boat
Member
I think it'd be great if they added more options but getting offended or outraged at the 'Are you a boy or a girl' question is really silly. You're playing a game where you catch fluffy animals and train them to fight, not making a statement about your identity. Not every game needs to have the option to create yourself as accurately as possible.
I'm not targeting non-binary people here, it's the same in my eyes as a guy complaining about playing as a woman in Tomb Raider, or white people complaining about playing as a black person in San Andreas. People in general care way too much about their avatar in video games as if it actually means anything. More options would be sweet if they were added, but I really don't see not being able to pick you gender in a game as anything close to a big issue.
I'm not targeting non-binary people here, it's the same in my eyes as a guy complaining about playing as a woman in Tomb Raider, or white people complaining about playing as a black person in San Andreas. People in general care way too much about their avatar in video games as if it actually means anything. More options would be sweet if they were added, but I really don't see not being able to pick you gender in a game as anything close to a big issue.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Have you actually read what you just linked me? That's a very important first step when trying to lecture someone about the language they know how to speak
Sorry, but you are wrong. I could talk in Spanish in a gender neutral way, but it sounds verbose and formal, for example like a political speech. A game can't be written exclusively that way.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Who is demanding anything? I think you need to relax. You're the one sounding hurt here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_Spanish_and_Portuguese
The article completly ignores portuguese .. which is weird because there are LOTS of ways to write in gender neutral language in portuguese (at least the brazilian variety)
So? Kids are rapidly learning to question outdated gender norms when we give them room to do so. Non-binary kids deserve to see themselves in the game, too.
Sorc3r3r
Member
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Tbh the amount of hand-wringing in this thread over the very notion of providing a more inclusive experience is comical. As demonstrated before, it takes minimal effort and only serves to make a larger amount of players feel more welcome yet some of y'all wacky-shack operatives are trying to spin it as an impossibility.
GhostTrick
Banned
Also to the people talking about being offended. I don't feel like anyone here is being offended. OP said outdated, not scandalous or whatever.
Although I feel like the issue also lays down on the definition of that question: To me, it's about biological sex. To other people, it's about gender.
Although I feel like the issue also lays down on the definition of that question: To me, it's about biological sex. To other people, it's about gender.
Well that's good then, i guess. I hope you also realize that the example you provided (driver's license) is a huge issue with intersexual people as well - as it's a document that is meant to provide "identification" but doesn't accurately describe what those people are / identify as.
Maybe try not to get as defensive, going all "what's next?! do you also want ... ", when someone's simply asking for things to be made more inclusive. Especially when it comes to video games, as they are super important to shaping how kids view the world.
get outta here with that crap. :/
Lanrutcon
Member
That sentence is meant to be read along with the rest of my post. Quoting it out of context is not cool.
Because questions are NEVER about biological sex.
People ask because of pratical uses like painting a bedroom, using a bathroom and stuff like that .. and it is ALWAYS gender
Lord of Ostia
Member
It's a little different than something like San Andreas or Tomb Raider though, because in those games you are playing a character with an established identity separate from the player. Putting yourself in someone else's shoes, if you will. Pokemon encourages you to see the player avatar as yourself, by letting you name them, asking questions directly to you, the player, and allowing you to customize the character to fit yourself (or alternatively someone completely different to yourself). People are simply asking for the customization options and and questions to be a little more inclusive.
Just FYI, gender and sexuality are not the same thing.
-Mutsukki-
Member
No there aren't. They're all gramatically incorrect ways (not even just coloquiallism) that could not and should not be in the game
There's nothing male about a penis and nothing female about a vagina. Those are gendered terms, totally made up, irrelevant, and out of date. Our society is slowly seeing that, at least in the US.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I did read it, hence why I edited it into my post after realizing it provided some missing information.
Not trying to lecture anyone either, just baffled by the imaginary goalposts people keep setting to argue against inclusivity.
I edited the post with more information but I guess you quoted it beforehand. Some other people are reiterating it anyway though so I'm not gonna repost it for a third time.
Most of the people getting offended seem to be the people who are outraged that someone merely asked the question of why can't there be non-binary options in Pokemon, which is ironic because they're more likely to say that gender and text don't matter at all. Well, if it doesn't matter then there's no way to argue meaningfully for the status quo. It's also not a good comparison to compare games where there is some level of avatar customization to ones where the creators intend to give the player a defined character from the start. Complaining about playing as a minority has far more concerning implications than asking for a character creator to come with more options.
Anyway, they should just add in Go's character creator but with a more appealing art style and be done with it. You can still have your binary genders if it's bothersome.
Im_So_Pringles
Member
I would prefer that developers not have to walk on eggshells in order to design a game. The moment they change this, people will find another detail to nitpick. The cycle continues. It'll never end. What has to happen is that people need to understand that games (and media in general) will never be able to pander and relate to every single possibility of identity and culture of the player, and that it is okay. The fact that pokemon asks you "Are you a boy or a girl" should not trigger you into thinking that you have been excluded. Sure, more options wouldn't hurt. But goddamn, where do we draw the line? Will we just complain about it forever until every single game just ditches humanity entirely as a subject because they couldn't find a way to include every single gender, lack of gender, identity, species, or kin in dialogue and character creators? Everything is replaced with robots or celestial beings that have no true form?
Oh wait, that would exclude me! Nope, don't do that! That's not okay! That would be outdated!
Oh wait, that would exclude me! Nope, don't do that! That's not okay! That would be outdated!
Gravy Boat
Member
That's all well and good but I still don't see it as an issue. Playing as a different gender has absolutley no affect on my enjoyment of a game and I fail to see how it would affect someone in that way.
Like I said, great if they add more options but I think people would just be better off not caring that much about your avatar in a video game.
Well it actually would take some more effort since in this case it's being used to select your player model. As other have said, unless you're asking them to make a full blown character creator, it is the most sensible option to give people.
Sorc3r3r
Member
Yeah, whatever. sorry but i don't want to derail the topic, even less in the game section, i edited for a reason.
Wow you could phrase that to not be or sound so passive aggressive. It would be more believable that you weren't being hostile.
GhostTrick
Banned
What do you mean painting a bedroom ?
If you mean about color preferences or whatever, then it is because the person asking is expecting, wrongfully, a different style depending on your gender.
But asking if you're a boy or a girl to give your character a biological sex sounds more like about biological sex indeed rather than your gender. Now that's my conception. Just keep in mind that I also agree that they should have at the very least a 3rd choice and more customisation for the characters, including no clothing limitation.
Oh noes, a small change to the text? DAMN THOSE SWJS!
I edited my post. You can force gender neutral talk in Spanish, but it sounds nothing like people usually talk. It sounds formal and verbose.
-Mutsukki-
Member
You said absolutely nothing, again. If you took your time to read it you would see that there isn't actually a "official" gender neutral pronoun for Spanish and it would make it hell for the translating team, which would probably have to ignore it altogether.
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