Support NeoGAF

[Piecake]

Between 1988 and 2014, Israel’s Civil Administration, the governing body that operates in the West Bank, issued 14,000 demolition orders, of which more than 11,000 are still outstanding and could result in the demolition of up to 17,000 structures owned by Palestinians in Area C, including houses, sheds and animal shelters, according to the report by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). In Area C, according to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, Israel retains control of security and land management and “views the area as there to serve its own needs”.

The figures for the report were taken from the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics and showed that in contrast to demolition orders against Palestinians, only 6,950 demolition orders had been made against illegal structures inside Jewish settlements.

According to Israeli Civil Administration data, Palestinians submitted 2,020 applications for building permits in Area C between 2010 and 2014 and only 33 (1.5%) were approved.

The report found the planning and zoning regime applied by the Israeli authorities, including the way land is allocated, “made it virtually impossible for Palestinians to obtain building permits in most of Area C”.

Less than 1% of Area C had been planned for Palestinian construction – even basic residential and livelihood structures, such as a tent or a fence, required a permit.

“Structures built without permits are regularly served with demolition orders. While only a minority of the orders issued are executed, these orders do not expire and leave affected households in a state of chronic uncertainty and threat.

Area C covers 60% of the West Bank, which was temporarily divided into three parts – A,B and C – under the 1995 Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, signed by Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). Area C was supposed to be transferred to the Palestinian Authority by the end of 1998 but Israel has maintained military control of the area.

Today 300,000 Palestinians live in Area C, while nearly 360,000 Jewish settlers live in 135 settlements and 100 settlement “outposts”, which are illegal under international law. The outposts built outside the 135 core settlements are illegal under Israeli law but, according to B’Tselem, “the Civil Administration turns a blind eye to settlers’ building violations”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/israel-demolish-arab-buildings-west-bank-un-palestinian

That is really fucked up. I knew they were destroying private property in Palestine to make way for Israeli settlers, but I did not realize you had to get permission to basically do any sort of construction from the Israeli government, and your chance of getting to even build a freakin fence or tent is like 1%.

How does a society even function when they can't build even the most basic things? But I guess that is the point.

Also, how does the Israeli government even determine which structures in the West Bank to demolish anyways?

 

[Lamel]

Nothing really gets done about this bullshit though, I've kind of given up on the idea of Israel answering for its fuckery. You see a news story like this every few weeks and its pretty sad.

 

[AnathemicOne]

And yet the US nor the UN plan to do anything about it.

 

[Dryk]

And yet the US nor the UN plan to do anything about it.

The US is going to watch the Palestinians rebuild their sandcastles then give Israel a high-five when they kick them down again

 

[Walpurgis]

The US is going to watch the Palestinians rebuild their sandcastles then give Israel a high-five when they kick them down again

.

 

[T-Dot]

The US is going to watch the Palestinians rebuild their sandcastles then give Israel a high-five when they kick them down again

This.

US foreign policy needs to change.

 

[Shaanyboi]

And nothing will be done about it.

Inb4 the apologists

 

[Suikoguy]

This.

US foreign policy needs to change.

It's trying. Obama's second term has brought about several interesting foreign policy developments.

 

[cyberheater]

Shameful behaviour from the US supporting these fuckwits.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Huh, wasn't the West Bank held up as an example of how Palestinians and Israeli's can live side by side during the Gaza war?

And yet here we have a story where they aren't free to do anything on their own land and have to watch helplessly as the Israeli government bulldozes their homes to make way for religious extremists.

 

[AAK]

State sanctioned terrorism.

 

[Piecake]

I think it is probably a good thing that I am not a mod since I would start banning everyone who brings up America without bothering to actually engage with the main story. I am getting really tired of wanting to discuss non-American news topics, but it always coming back to America and America dominating the discussion.

Well, there is one thing that I can do, and that is I learned my lesson and I am not going to bother creating international news threads since there clearly isnt any point.

 

[neurosisxeno]

I think it is probably a good thing that I am not a mod since I would start banning everyone who brings up America without bothering to actually engage with the main story. I am getting really tired of wanting to discuss non-American news topics, but it always coming back to America and America dominating the discussion.

How many other countries give Israel $3B in aid every year--$2.94B of which is earmarked for military expenditures?

 

[NEO0MJ]

How many other countries give Israel $3B in aid every year--$2.94B of which is earmarked for military expenditures?

Not only that. One of the main reason Israel is never punished or held accountable is that the USA shuts down any attempt to punish it or hold it up to scrutiny. As long as the USA doesn't change their stance regarding Israel they won't stop doing what they do.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

I'm not really surprised. Israel politics on settlements in occupied territory and how they treat native residents of occupied territory, has been completely fucked up since day 1.

 

[Chichikov]

I think it is probably a good thing that I am not a mod since I would start banning everyone who brings up America without bothering to actually engage with the main story. I am getting really tired of wanting to discuss non-American news topics, but it always coming back to America and America dominating the discussion.

Well, there is one thing that I can do, and that is I learned my lesson and I am not going to bother creating international news threads since there clearly isnt any point.

The US enables that fuckery though, as long as it keeps vetoing every security council resolution against such bullshit they deserved to get called out on that.
Not sure what's your beef here really, especially as it's much more likely (though still not super likely) to get the US to stop supporting this bullshit than to Israel to stop doing it.

 

[soleil]

I think it is probably a good thing that I am not a mod since I would start banning everyone who brings up America without bothering to actually engage with the main story. I am getting really tired of wanting to discuss non-American news topics, but it always coming back to America and America dominating the discussion.

Well, there is one thing that I can do, and that is I learned my lesson and I am not going to bother creating international news threads since there clearly isnt any point.

I'm American and my two cents is that we're giving tons of defense money / weapons contracts to Israel to make all of this possible. No way Israel does all this without American backing. It would be irresponsible for people to NOT bring up America.

 

[Kadayi]

And yet the US nor the UN plan to do anything about it.

The UN can't because the US veto any attempt at affirmative action. If the veto wasn't in place the UN would of sent Peacekeepers in and re-established the 1967 borders decades ago.

 

[Machina]

I haven't seen an apartheid regime get away with so much since.....Well since the last one got away with a shitload.

 

[UberTag]

The US is going to watch the Palestinians rebuild their sandcastles then give Israel a high-five when they kick them down again

Will there be dollar bills included with said high five? Because I have to imagine there will be.
American tax dollars well spent.

 

[Piecake]

The US enables that fuckery though, as long as it keeps vetoing every security council resolution against such bullshit they deserved to get called out on that.
Not sure what's your beef here really, especially as it's much more likely (though still not super likely) to get the US to stop supporting this bullshit than to Israel to stop doing it.

My beef is that it happens in every freakin thread. Everything is turned back to America and it freakin annoys me.

As for this topic, people discuss it like America's support is the only reason why Israel continues to do this. If America stops giving military aid and stops vetoing those resolutions in the UN, do you honestly think Israel is going to stop what it is doing?

It is quite clear that you don't, so why the hell are we only discussing America's support of Israel? Why have that same freakin conversation that we have had a billion times before?

I'm American and my two cents is that we're giving tons of defense money / weapons contracts to Israel to make all of this possible. No way Israel does all this without American backing. It would be irresponsible for people to NOT bring up America.

Why wouldnt they? What would happen if we stopped backing them and they continued this policy?

 

[Dabanton]

My beef is that it happens in every freakin thread. Everything is turned back to America and it freakin annoys me.

As for this topic, people discuss it like America's support is the only reason why Israel continues to do this. If America stops giving military aid and stops vetoing those resolutions in the UN, do you honestly think Israel is going to stop what it is doing?

It is quite clear that you don't, so why the hell are we only discussing America's support of Israel? Why have that same freakin conversation that we have had a billion times before?



Why wouldnt they? What would happen if we stopped backing them and they continued this policy?

Probably not. They'd probably go for broke. And I fear what that would entail. As they're not exactly shy about what they think of Palestinians.

As for America it will always be a factor. It provides the shield of 'decency' that Israel uses. It's a disgusting festering ass boil that America seems happy to let carry on through gritted teeth.

 

[Chichikov]

My beef is that it happens in every freakin thread. Everything is turned back to America and it freakin annoys me.

As for this topic, people discuss it like America's support is the only reason why Israel continues to do this. If America stops giving military aid and stops vetoing those resolutions in the UN, do you honestly think Israel is going to stop what it is doing?

It is quite clear that you don't, so why the hell are we only discussing America's support of Israel? Why have that same freakin conversation that we have had a billion times before?

I absolutely think that short of river of (Jewish) blood, international pressure is the only thing that will make Israel dismantle its apartheid regime in the west bank, and yeah, the US automatic support of Israel is a huge hindrance to such things.

I also think that the mere threat of check-book diplomacy (as best Bush did to force Israel to join the Madrid Conference) can go a long way.

But really, I'm not sure what sort of discussion you were expecting, and in any case, I think it would be better to just try to steer it toward that way instead of complaining that people don't post about what you want them to.

 

[AnathemicOne]

I think it is probably a good thing that I am not a mod since I would start banning everyone who brings up America without bothering to actually engage with the main story. I am getting really tired of wanting to discuss non-American news topics, but it always coming back to America and America dominating the discussion.

Well, there is one thing that I can do, and that is I learned my lesson and I am not going to bother creating international news threads since there clearly isnt any point.

My beef is that it happens in every freakin thread. Everything is turned back to America and it freakin annoys me.

As for this topic, people discuss it like America's support is the only reason why Israel continues to do this. If America stops giving military aid and stops vetoing those resolutions in the UN, do you honestly think Israel is going to stop what it is doing?

It is quite clear that you don't, so why the hell are we only discussing America's support of Israel? Why have that same freakin conversation that we have had a billion times before?



Why wouldnt they? What would happen if we stopped backing them and they continued this policy?

Yeah except the US is a direct influence if on the fuckery happening in Israel. Yeah sure Israel is probably not going to immediately stop if the US cuts support but the main provider of their fuckery suddenly gone will force them to change things.

 

[Shuggananas]

nothing to see here, israel doing israel things

 

[Piecake]

I absolutely think that short of river of (Jewish) blood, international pressure is the only thing that will make Israel dismantle its apartheid regime in the west bank, and yeah, the US automatic support of Israel is a huge hindrance to such things.

I also think that the mere threat of check-book diplomacy (as best Bush did to force Israel to join the Madrid Conference) can go a long way.

But really, I'm not sure what sort of discussion you were expecting, and in any case, I think it would be better to just try to steer it toward that way instead of complaining that people don't post about what you want them to.

I expected at least some discussion on how this will impact Palestinians and Palestine-Israel relations and yes, I expected a quite a bit of discussion about America. This one was only about America and it was a conversation we have had countless times.

Like I said, it gets annoying seeing every discussion in basically every non-american news thread revert back to America. Hell, the Japanese work and abortion thread I created discussed America for like 1/2 the time.

As for my complaint post, that was me simply giving up. There was really no point to try to gently lead it back to a topic we havent discussed a billion times before then since I already decided to stop trying. Perhaps that was indulgent and petty, but whatever, I felt a need to express it.

Yeah except the US is a direct influence if on the fuckery happening in Israel. Yeah sure Israel is probably not going to immediately stop if the US cuts support but the main provider of their fuckery suddenly gone will force them to change things.

Israel is has a modern economy and isnt dependent on the US for economic or military assistance. I am not sure how the US not backing Israel will force them to change.

I do agree that we should certainly stop suipporting them, and only international condemnation will end it, but that is going to take a long fucking while, and it will only end with either economic sanctions forcing Israel to stop or Israel listening to that condemnation and slowly realizing that they better stop.

 

[Dryk]

As for my complaint post, that was me simply giving up. There was really no point to try to gently lead it back to a topic we havent discussed a billion times before then since I already decided to stop trying.

If you're sick of treading over the same tired ground we've discussed over and over where nothing will ever change, Israel-Palestinian relations may not be the hill you want to die on :\

I do agree that we should certainly stop and only international condemnation will end it, but that is going to take a long fucking while, and it will only end with either economic sanctions forcing Israel to stop or Israel listening to that condemnation and slowly realizing that they better stop.

And that won't happen as long as the US is defending them

 

[Wilsongt]

Another day, another Israeli attempt to completely forget that Palestinians are people, too.

It almost reminds you of another time in history. Hm.

 

[Chichikov]

I expected at least some discussion on how this will impact Palestinians and Palestine-Israel relations.

Okay.
So this will not really going to change anything since this isn't a change in policy.
Israel is not going to demolish all these houses any time soon, for the most part it just issues these orders so it can demolish some houses later, usually in response of political pressure from the right, while keeping the pretense of the rule of law.

 

[BishopLamont]

israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Problem is that Palestinians build literally anywhere without any form of permit that is required by Israeli law.

Israel has control of Area C as agreed by the Oslo Accords. Should they relax their building laws in the area? Ah but then more Jews will build there too. Ok so relax the law only for Arabs then. The Supreme Court would come down on that decision like a ton of bricks.

It's literally impossible for Israel to win in this situation.

And that won't happen as long as the US is defending them

For what it's worth, Israel really isn't reliant on US support and would continue to act in it's best interest regardless.

I absolutely think that short of river of (Jewish) blood

Is that you, Hassan Nasrallah?

israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era

Sorry Syrians, we don't really care that much about your plight. Israel might demolish houses built without planning permission.

 

[Shuggananas]

israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era

Well ISIS is worse but that's about it imo

 

[Chichikov]

Is that you, Hassan Nasrallah?

Huh?
I don't wish that on Israel (or anyone for that matter) which is why I support international pressure.
If this about the Jewish part, I think it's pretty damn evident that Palestinian deaths are not going to change the course of Israel.

Problem is that Palestinians build literally anywhere without any form of permit that is required by Israeli law.

Israel has control of Area C as agreed by the Oslo Accords. Should they relax their building laws in the area? Ah but then more Jews will build there too. Ok so relax the law only for Arabs then. The Supreme Court would come down on that decision like a ton of bricks.

It's literally impossible for Israel to win in this situation.

It can grant building permits, which it currently doesn't do, and that's the problem.

 

[GamerSoul]

Just once would I love to see common sense and plain human decency prevail over history that drives people to act like this.

 

[BishopLamont]

Problem is that Palestinians build literally anywhere without any form of permit that is required by Israeli law.

Israel has control of Area C as agreed by the Oslo Accords. Should they relax their building laws in the area? Ah but then more Jews will build there too. Ok so relax the law only for Arabs then. The Supreme Court would come down on that decision like a ton of bricks.

oh boo hoo, look at poor israel being bullied by other countries through international laws, im sure they're doing it so hard over there that they're running out of room to build settlements

yep it's obviously palenstine's fault that they're being forced out of their homeland

Well ISIS is worse but that's about it imo

isis isn't that much of a threat for the time being, they're literally just a bunch of kids trying to act tough

israel is the one that has the backing of major super powers and are immune to pressure since they have the wealth, it all comes down to the money

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Well ISIS is worse but that's about it imo

How's Assad doing these days? Or the Saudis? Or Iran? To name but a few.

Looks like the Obama's America isn't flying the flag in the region much either.

Huh?
I don't wish that on Israel (or anyone for that matter) which is why I support international pressure.
If this about the Jewish part, I think it's pretty damn evident that Palestinian deaths are not going to change the course of Israel.

It can grant building permits, which it currently doesn't do, and that's the problem.

1. Plenty of terrorists agree that a river of Jewish blood would help wipe Israel off the map. You only differ on which method you prefer.

2. There are more than Jews living in Israel. Heard of the druze?

3. It doesn't grant building permits because the correct legal procedures are not followed. Do you suggest Israel relax these procedures for West Bank Arabs only?

 

[M.D]

israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era

Yes, this small conflict which is limited to an even smaller area in the Middle East and has produced less casualties than literally every other recent conflict around the world since it began is the source of all the world's problems right now.

 

[Zoned]

I just don't understand how a sane person like Obama could support this in any form...

Or maybe both parties are evil and it all boils down to choosing which one is less.

 

[BishopLamont]

Yes, this small conflict which is limited to an even smaller area in the Middle East and has produced less casualties than literally every other recent conflict around the world since it began is the source of all the world's problems right now.

never said it was the source of all the world's problems

israel is basically doing wat ever the hell they want and no one is doing anything bout it, it sets a bad precedence and all they need is money to do so

there isn't much casualty because palestine is basically defenseless, but the living conditions they create for the palestinians is the bigger concern, it isn't always bout the number of deaths.

this conflict that has been going for so long isn't a "small conflict" you're naive if u think so

I just don't understand how a sane person like Obama could support this in any form...

Or maybe both parties are evil and it all boils down to choosing which one is less.

if choosing the lesser of two evils is the reason then they'd be on palestine's side

 

[Shuggananas]

How's Assad doing these days? Or the Saudis? Or Iran? To name but a few.

Yeah assad is a POS but I don't see how the saudis or iran are a bigger concern than israel

 

[BishopLamont]

israel is systematically taking over another country's land before our eyes with no repercussions and people are willing to defend them like they're the victim.

some people are just so brainwashed it is unbelievable

sure there is no right or wrong when it comes to war for the most part, palestine isn't completely devoid of fault either, but it isn't hard to see who is the oppressor here

 

[itxaka]

I don't understand why they don't just go and massacre all Palestinians and take over the whole region.
I mean, that seems to be what they want so they should step up and show their true face. Maybe that way they will get a slap in the hand or something.

What's the reactions from Israel people regarding this crap? Is the media in Israel controlled by the government? Are there any gatherings of Israelis against this or do most of them agree?

 

[Earthpainting]

Apartheid in 2015 never stops feeling weird, especially since everyone knows it's happening, and nothing is getting done about it. It sometimes feels like the world has given up, and we're just waiting for the problem to "go away". Even my Israeli friends find the whole thing messed up, but it is understandably difficult to do much about it politically. There's a lot of bad blood and history, which keep the cycle of justifications alive, and when safety is on the line, a lot of voters will call for drastic measures.

Maybe if they aren't being shielded by vetoes, the UN could get involved. The likelihood of that happening seems slim with Obama sadly enough. Maybe the next US president can prove him/herself, but I'm not sure if that stance would help that person's electability.

 

[BishopLamont]

I don't understand why they don't just go and massacre all Palestinians and take over the whole region.
I mean, that seems to be what they want so they should step up and show their true face. Maybe that way they will get a slap in the hand or something.

What's the reactions from Israel people regarding this crap? Is the media in Israel controlled by the government? Are there any gatherings of Israelis against this or do most of them agree?

because then naive people will be able to see their true motives, right now most people are neutral when it comes to the conflict

it is much easier and less hassle to handle it with the slow but steady plan, as u can see it is working

 

[Chichikov]

1. Plenty of terrorists agree that a river of Jewish blood would help wipe Israel off the map. You only differ on which method you prefer.

2. There are more than Jews living in Israel. Heard of the druze?

3. It doesn't grant building permits because the correct legal procedures are not followed. Do you suggest Israel relax these procedures for West Bank Arabs only?

1. I don't want to wipe anything out of any map, I was just commenting on what I think it would take to make Israel change its position. Much like Israel was all like "I'd rather have Sinai without that peace without Sinai until the '73 war.
2. Yes I have. Not sure what your point is though, you think a massacre of druze, circassians or bahai is going to make Israel change it policy in the west bank? why are even discussion these weird scenarios?
3. That's straight up not true, have you read the article in the OP? Palestinians have applied for building permits, 98.5% were rejected.

 

[BishopLamont]

Sorry Syrians, we don't really care that much about your plight. Israel might demolish houses built without planning permission.

building permits for land that isn't even urs? poor israel

ur the perfect example of extreme bias, israel could all out take over palestine tomoro and you'd still find a way to justify their actions

btw nice joke bout syria, u basically just admitted to not giving a shit bout other countries, it's like you're so brainwashed u don't even care

 

[Chichikov]

Sorry Syrians, we don't really care that much about your plight. Israel might demolish houses built without planning permission.

Even ignoring that blatant whataboutism, considering that a member of the Likud party just doxed the head of the opposition for having the audacity to suggest that Israel might want to help some Syrian refugees (something that is fully rejected by Israel by the way), maybe you shouldn't go there?

 

[NEO0MJ]

I just don't understand how a sane person like Obama could support this in any form...

Or maybe both parties are evil and it all boils down to choosing which one is less.

Strong lobbies in the US make it impossible to criticize Israel. Obama actually did heavily criticize it a few years ago but after a couple of days issued an apology.

 

[M.D]

never said it was the source of all the world's problems

israel is basically doing wat ever the hell they want and no one is doing anything bout it, it sets a bad precedence and all they need is money to do so

there isn't much casualty because palestine is basically defenseless, but the living conditions they create for the palestinians is the bigger concern, it isn't always bout the number of deaths.

this conflict that has been going for so long isn't a "small conflict" you're naive if u think so


if choosing the lesser of two evils is the reason then they'd be on palestine's side

"israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era"

Please explain yourself then.

Is Israel a bigger problem than the 2008 financial crisis? The Arab Spring? Would thousands of people have not been killed across Egypt, Tunisia and Libya if it wasn't for Israel? Maybe hundreds of thousand of civilians would have not have been killed in Syria, and millions of Syrians would be considered refugees right now? Did Israel make Putin take over Crimea and fantasize about taking over his ex-soviet union states?

Did Israel cause any of these, directly or in-directly? Could any of these have been avoided if Israel and Palestine were not in conflict? Maybe there's another conflict in Africa or Asia that I'm forgetting that Israel is DEFINITELY responsible for? Maybe Israel sent all those refugees to Europe?

How is "israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era"?

 

[BishopLamont]

"israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era"

Please explain yourself then.

Is Israel a bigger problem than the 2008 financial crisis? The Arab Spring? Would thousands of people have not been killed across Egypt, Tunisia and Libya if it wasn't for Israel? Maybe hundreds of thousand of civilians would have not have been killed in Syria, and millions of Syrians would be considered refugees right now? Did Israel make Putin take over Crimea and fantasize about taking over his ex-soviet union states?

Did Israel cause any of these, directly or in-directly? Could any of these have been avoided if Israel and Palestine were not in conflict? Maybe there's another conflict in Africa or Asia that I'm forgetting that Israel is DEFINITELY responsible for? Maybe Israel sent all those refugees to Europe?

How is "israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era"?

when did i say israel is responsible for any of that?

so other bad things happening in the world suddenly makes the palestinian conflict ok now?

i've already posted my reasons why i think they're the biggest problem in this very thread, u can keep thinking they're saints, as it is obvious you're not gonna be changing ur mind any time soon

how u gonna mention russia and crimea when the palestinian conflict is basically that but on a bigger/longer but on more subtle level thanks to western propaganda?

like i said before, it isn't always about the number of deaths, the biggest problem is the conditions the conflicts create on the people living in palestine

sometimes people rather die than live in such conditions, open ur mind a bit rather than concentrating on raw numbers