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Israel plans to demolish 17,000 Arab buildings in West Bank, UN says
- Thread starter Piecake
- Start date
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I am asking you to explain how ""israel is the biggest problem we face in the modern era"" and you can't explain it, because it couldn't be more far from reality.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict could be resolved tomorrow and the the world would be the same, except for (hopefully) better lives for people on both sides.
way more
Member
What were those reasons again?
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Never mind the refugees,how about the over 250,000 killed by Assad? Or those killed by ISIS.
What some "member of the Likud party" says is irrelevant.
They agreed to it under the Oslo Accords.
I'm personally not happy that Israel doesn't officially annex Area C and give full citizenship to the Arabs there, but that's another issue.
Always-honest
Banned
The bullying never stops.
Terra Firma
Banned
Then how will there be a Jewish state?
"Jewish state" implies that Israel is, or should be, either a theocracy (if we take the word "Jewish" to apply to the religion of Judaism) or an apartheid state (if we take the word "Jewish" to apply to the ethnicity of Jews), or both, and in all of these cases, Israel is then no longer a democracy - something which has rightly been the pride of most Israelis since the country's founding in 1948.
IISANDERII
Member
Continued ethnic cleansing, how else?
Israel is doing that, albeit slowly. That way they grab land unnoticed. A systematic approach to invasion. Meanwhile they do everything in their power to make Palestinian lives hell with extreme sanctions.
This is an overwhelmingly American forum. When a topic has an angle that is relatable to Americans it will be brought up. It's just how it is. Often times that does lead to more nuanced and distinct conversations outside of the American influence sphere of discussion.
By way of making such a big fuss you pretty much just ensured that which you didn't want to happen. You derailed the thread and made it completely about America complacency in this.
Next time just make a point that is about what you want to talk about and see if it sparks a conversation. When you try and force people not to talk about something they are going to talk about it. And if you had stuck around you would see how the thread eventually did move on from the American angle.
Israel is the Malfoy of the Middle East. A little douche who gets away with being a shit because daddy (America) has money and influence.
I agree, but this is going to require a considerable amount of reparations for the property stolen from Palestinians over the decades. This will never happen unless there is a dramatic cultural shift amongst Israelis.
I agree, but this is going to require a considerable amount of reparations for the property stolen from Palestinians over the decades. This will never happen unless there is a dramatic cultural shift amongst Israelis.
It seems like this is often ignored -- Gaza, bloody and beaten preserves some kind of autonomy, but the West Bank is slowly and passively dissolved. Obviously this takes away the motivations for peace but but the Israeli far right doesn't want peace on Palestinian terms, anyway.
And people wonder why those in Gaza haven't exactly been enthusiastic about embracing non-violent resistance. Look what it has done for the West Bank. Israel just moves the goal posts and takes advantage of their weakness all the same.
Edit: for instance just look at the farce that is occurring right now with this and simultaneously the arson victim who just died at the hands of Jewish extremists and the little effort that has been put toward seeking justice. Or the price tag attacks by Jewish settlers in Palestinians for the actions of the Israelis government.
RustyNails
Member
Assad, ISIS, and Al Qaida will be gone tomorrow, a footnote in history just like many other bloodthirsty groups. Israel will still be here, still bulldozing Palestinians and still be dropping bombs in Gaza indiscriminately. Israel has been doing that for past decades, and this will be the source of animosity and conflict in the region for decades to come. Lets not deflect the crimes of Israel, of which there are many.
privitsan02
Member
Here we go again...
Needs to become a bannable offence. Even as a non-American its starting to really get annoying.
Get over it. America is going to be in the conversation of Israeli/Palestenian affairs for as long as we continue to be Israel's shield from any sort of international action toward Israeli atrocities.
Doubly so because this is an American centric forum. Again, get over it. You and pie cake are making this thread more about American policy in the area than anyone else by not just moving on or participating in the non-American centric discussions going on.
This is a most ridiculous statement. Think about what you're saying. Like, REALLY think about it.
When the US is basically forcing the hands of all its trade partners, what do you really expect? The US is probably the sole reason why Israels action have been tolerated for so long. It is also constantly vetoing any UN resolution to amend the situation.
You cannot talk about modern Israel's political circumstances without inclusding the US.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Rushersauce
Banned
Well, it's one of the biggest problems. An "ethnic cleansing" situation is something to worry about.
The media isn't controlled by the government, and depending on who you ask, the media either has a left- or right-wing bias (guess which is which). There are many media outlets, including a version of FOX or whatever. The biggest one (I think) is ynet which I guess has a centerist-right viewpoint.
Like every democracy, there are people are divided on many issues. The majority in Israel, as could be seen in the last election would probably support this (citing rule of the law, illegal settlements by Palestinians etc.). I would say support for Jewish settlements in the West Bank is probably about ~60%.
Remember that Bibi got a quarter of all votes recently. The Jewish/Orthodox parties also have some major weight in the government as they're the only ones willing to form a coalition with Bibi's party.
He basically must cave to any demands they have if he wants to stay PM.
In addition to my previous guesstimate (why does chrome not correct that?), here is some poll data from June '14 (taken by 550 Jewish Israelis):
59% believe that the settlers harm Israeli-US relations (ha!).
52% believe that Palestinians are not "partners" in peace (you can not make a lasting peace with them).
40% believe that the Jewish Settlements in the West Bank are a waste of the country's money.
52% support withdrawing partially or completely as part of a peace agreement.
71% say that the confrontations the settlers have with the IDF makes them difficult to support/empathise with.
31% support partial or complete annexation of the West Bank.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/education/.premium-1.2350037
In a more recent poll from June '15:
Do you support or oppose the dismantling of settlements in the West Bank?
Support - 38%
Oppose - 54%
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/isposettle.html (unfamiliar with the source)
Translation:
59% believe that the settlers harm Israeli-US relations (ha!).
52% believe that Palestinians are not "partners" in peace (you can not make a lasting peace with them).
40% believe that the Jewish Settlements in the West Bank are a waste of the country's money.
52% support withdrawing partially or completely as part of a peace agreement.
71% say that the confrontations the settlers have with the IDF makes them difficult to support/empathise with.
31% support partial or complete annexation of the West Bank.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/education/.premium-1.2350037
In a more recent poll from June '15:
Do you support or oppose the dismantling of settlements in the West Bank?
Support - 38%
Oppose - 54%
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/isposettle.html (unfamiliar with the source)
Kar
Member
ynet in centric-left/left.
SenorArdilla
Member
Exactly how does the US benefit in this relationship?
Thanks AIPAC and others. The US/Israel relationship is a clear-cut example of "tail wagging the dog". It sucks but there's hope- support for Israel is lower among liberals and younger voters. In 20 years we might divest ourselves of that apartheid state.
We don't.
CaptainMellow
Banned
The world is turning against Israel. Soon leaders across the world will turn against them. That land belongs to the people, not jews, christians or muslims, share the land. Its important in all those religions. But the Zionists are pure evil.
Spineless loser.
RustyNails
Member
Obama literally can't do jack shit. He hates Netanyahu and opposes settlement construction. That much is certain.
He can't do much as the gop and some dems will never touch nor do anything against israel since thats pretty much political suicide.
For what? Making a bad argument that got exposed several posts later?
Not bad per se, but certainly an incomplete picture.
Since i can't post it anymore (or else, get banned) look for the Hasbara Bingo Card. You know what i mean.
Haha. I read your post. Read it again. Then a third time! Still wasn't following. Then I re-read Bingo again and it finally clicked!
...Long day
Kadayi
Banned
Indeed. The entire mentality of that post was hilarious. I mean we're talking about land which as far as the international community (bar the US) is concerned is under an illegal military occupation that in simply a cover story for a sustained land grab. The very fact that settlements are being built on the land is proof positive of the Israeli governments intention to never withdraw from the region, versus continue to expand until they push what remains of the Palestinians into the sea.
It's frankly shameful that so many who are in a position to actively do something to address this issue in Washington do absolutely nothing about it. In a few hundred years people will look back on the politicians of now and marvel at their cravenness to address the injustice that they allowed to perpetuate.
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