It Might Be Time to Admit the Great VR Experiment Has Failed - HowToGeek

Magister

Member
The biggest issue for VR adoption is the space requirement imo.

You can adjust to a lot of the other caveats in a lot of ways, but no one is gonna move apartments or sell their house just to be more VR-friendly. It just isn't worth it.

With that said, VR is wonderful and I hope more people try it at least.
I agree 100%. I don't have enough space in my apartment as my furniture gets in the way. I'm not planning to throw my quality furniture in the trash. If I want VR ready room I will also need to throw my bed away which is insane.

Nothing against VR, it is cool, but only if you have a big house as it is a nightmare to set up in regular apartments.
 

tr1p1ex

Member
I agree 100%. I don't have enough space in my apartment as my furniture gets in the way. I'm not planning to throw my quality furniture in the trash. If I want VR ready room I will also need to throw my bed away which is insane.

Nothing against VR, it is cool, but only if you have a big house as it is a nightmare to set up in regular apartments.
Graham Hill Studio GIF by MakeSpace
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I agree 100%. I don't have enough space in my apartment as my furniture gets in the way. I'm not planning to throw my quality furniture in the trash. If I want VR ready room I will also need to throw my bed away which is insane.

Nothing against VR, it is cool, but only if you have a big house as it is a nightmare to set up in regular apartments.
Not every gamer even wants to focus on first person games which is what VR is all about too.

Also, watching VR game clips, it's basically Wii Waggling. Some of it doesn't even make sense. I forget which game it was but you bend down to turn a valve. So what does the gamer do? Bend down and press a button on the wrist pad. You dont even pretend to turn the valve. So whats the point?
 
We just need a easy to use software layer to convert any flat screen game to a VR game. UE VR is a good step in that direction, but we need to continue. There's no point making VR only games, VR should just be a way to experience the same game that is played in flat.

cockpit games are a must in vr, playing racing games on a flat screen is unacceptable nowadays
 

Romulus

Member


  • Some sources suggest that the VR market has stagnated, with declining headset sales and not enough games to convince newcomers to jump onboard.
  • Barriers to VR adoption persist, including space constraints, cost, the threat of motion sickness, platform fragmentation, and a level of effort that asks a lot from the consumer.
  • VR still has enthusiast appeal, and likely will for many years to come, but cracking the consumer market even with entry-level headsets looks set to be a challenge for a while yet.



So lets look at the 3 main points here.

Some sources suggest that the VR market has stagnated, with declining headset sales and not enough games to convince newcomers to jump onboard.

"Some" sources. Are these the same sources that said PSVR1 was dead, or Quest 1, 2? What about Value Index? They're also making another headset to release in 2025, along with 3 others.

The market leader is Meta Quest, and there's no evidence that VR sales are declining outside of mega sales like the Quest 2 at $200 at the very end of its life cycle. They're using that as a metric out of ignorance. Quest 3s will have its $200 day, its just not 2024. Disingenuous/ignorant point.



Barriers to VR adoption persist, including space constraints, cost, the threat of motion sickness, platform fragmentation, and a level of effort that asks a lot from the consumer.

Right, so what does this have to do with a failed experiment being suddenly apparent in 2024/2025? Those were a problem 10 years ago and they said VR was dead back then for the same reasons. Silly point with zero substance.



VR still has enthusiast appeal, and likely will for many years to come, but cracking the consumer market even with entry-level headsets looks set to be a challenge for a while yet.

That's already been disproven. 20 million sold in 2 years is not just an enthusiast device. That's on par with some of the best selling consoles.

Listen, the puzzle isn't difficult to figure out. The Quest 2 was a monster in terms of sales, but it had no games. Some of that was because it didn't have enough power to bring real games. Quest 3 is there. It's still not cheap enough, but we're headed up a hill where those 2 things are going to happen at the same time. It's not going to "take over gaming" but its not going anywhere for a long, long time. It can survive in some middle tier in terms of sales and interest. It'll have surges and declines, but the problem with ignorant people dogpiling stupid articles like this is it shows me they don't understand the industry. If the big players are committed and have been, no one cares what some neogaf poster thinks because "meh it collects dust!" So does my ps5 for many people. Me included. Doesn't mean anything, at all.

My main point is, if you agree with that article, you're ignorant to the history of VR how it relates to the current state. Every few months these articles come out going back over 10 years. Think about that. THIS is the year it will die!!!! 2025, I mean 2027, no 2034! It's just ridiculous people fall for this without looking back.
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
Listen, the puzzle isn't difficult to figure out. The Quest 2 was a monster in terms of sales, but it had no games. Some of that was because it didn't have enough power to bring real games. Quest 3 is there. It's still not cheap enough, but we're headed up a hill where those 2 things are going to happen at the same time. It's not going to "take over gaming" but its not going anywhere for a long, long time. There's no rule that VR has to be this thing or that. It can survive in some middle tier in terms of sales and interest. It'll have surges and declines, but the problem with ignorant people dogpiling stupid articles like this is it shows me they don't understand the industry. If the big players are committed and have been, no one cares what some neogaf poster thinks because "meh it collects dust!" So does my ps5 for many people. Doesn't mean anything, at all.

My main point is, if you agree with that article, you're ignorant to the history of VR how it relates to the current state. Every few months these articles come out going back over 10 years. Think about that. THIS is the year it will die!!!! 2025, I mean 2027, no 2034! It's just ridiculous people fall for this without looking back.
I think part of the issue is that the Quest 2 was too weak graphically. You just had to sacrifice too much to play the game on that device. The Quest 3 is way way better and can put in genuinely nice looking games.
 

tr1p1ex

Member
Meta Quest 3S failed to boost holiday demand for VR in 2024

Omdia analysis of Sensor Tower data reveals that the Meta Quest mobile companion app downloads fell on Christmas Day 2024 by 27% compared to 2023, despite the launch of the Meta Quest 3S in October. Priced from $300, the Quest 3S is a follow-up to the highly successful Quest 2.
 

Romulus

Member
Meta Quest 3S failed to boost holiday demand for VR in 2024

Omdia analysis of Sensor Tower data reveals that the Meta Quest mobile companion app downloads fell on Christmas Day 2024 by 27% compared to 2023, despite the launch of the Meta Quest 3S in October. Priced from $300, the Quest 3S is a follow-up to the highly successful Quest 2.

I mean, that makes alot sense. Alot of people were upgrading from Quest 2 to Quest 3, so downloading the app again makes no sense. I use the same app for both.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Meta Quest 3S failed to boost holiday demand for VR in 2024

Omdia analysis of Sensor Tower data reveals that the Meta Quest mobile companion app downloads fell on Christmas Day 2024 by 27% compared to 2023, despite the launch of the Meta Quest 3S in October. Priced from $300, the Quest 3S is a follow-up to the highly successful Quest 2.
we're seriously judging success or failure of a platform by app downloads now?
 

yurinka

Member
I've been hearing this since the 90s. By the same people that keep saying each generation that this console generation may be the last one.

And guess what, they are always wrong.
 

Romulus

Member
might just be pointing out that the 3S failed to boost VR demand in 2024. But it is a data point in favor of failure.

Quest 2 was highly successful and people moving to Quest 3 don't need to redownload an app. Makes no sense that it would equal Quest 2.
 

XXL

Gold Member
It's weird people are so hung up on Half Life Alyx (which is great btw).

You're missing the forest for the trees, imo.

Imo 3 (or 4) of the best 10 games of the last 2 years are VR games.

Hitman VR
GT7 VR
Resident Evil 4 VR
 

tr1p1ex

Member
Quest 2 was highly successful and people moving to Quest 3 don't need to redownload an app. Makes no sense that it would equal Quest 2.
The Gamecube was not and sold more. And Nintendo lost less on it than Meta did on Q2. And Nintendo made a lot of big games for GC.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
It's weird people are so hung up on Half Life Alyx (which is great btw).

You're missing the forest for the trees, imo.

Imo 3 (or 4) of the best 10 games of the last 2 years are VR games.

Hitman VR
GT7 VR
Resident Evil 4 VR

1) Those are all already out / ports
2) Now make a list of all the best games from the last 2 years of gaming for regular systems/console/PC.
3) Compare the two lists. I'd wager the VR one has 5-50 games, and the console one around 50-500 games (if you're consistent in your standards on both lists)
 

XXL

Gold Member
I'd wager the VR one has 5-50 games, and the console one around 50-500 games (if you're consistent in your standards on both lists)
Of course flat-screen has more games, but that's not the point I'm making.

The point is...is that a few VR games have been some of the best games in the last 2 years.

Hitman VR for example is 100% one of the best games released this year.
 

Admerer

Member
Biggest obstacle to VR is motion sickness, it limits the type of games people can use in VR.
VR was supposed to be the next evolution of gaming, being in the game was going to be revolutionary vs staring at a screen.
It was disappointing when I found out I couldn't walk/run my character around in VR without getting motioning sickness 🤢.
Until they can trick our brains into not getting sick from playing something like Skyrim, or GTA in VR it may never see broad adoption.
 

Romulus

Member
google it. easy to find.

Company Documents Show Meta’s Flagship Metaverse Falling Short​


The article specifically discusses an app within the Quest called Horizon, not the Quest engagement itself. It's a silly app and not a reason anyone I know would ever buy the device for anyway. The article is irrelevant for overall engagement.

Horizon Worlds, Meta’s flagship metaverse for consumers, is failing to meet internal performance expectations, according to The Wall Street Journal, which reviewed internal company documents.

Meta initially aimed to reach 500,000 monthly active users in Horizon Worlds by the end of the year, but the current figure is less than 200,000, according to the report. Additionally, the documents showed that most users didn’t return to Horizon after the first month on the platform, and the number of users has steadily declined since spring, the Journal said.


Only 9% of worlds are visited by at least 50 people, and most are never visited at all, according to the report.

The report comes as the company’s stock falls, user numbers decline and advertisers cut spending. Meta shares are down 62% so far this year.

Meta rebranded from Facebook last year in order to reflect the company’s ambitions beyond social media. CEO Mark Zuckerberg has specifically been interested in building out the metaverse, which is a virtual world that allows users to work and play together.

As a result, Meta created Horizon Worlds, which is a network of virtual spaces where users can engage with one another as avatars. Individuals can access Horizon through Meta’s Quest virtual-reality headsets.
 

tr1p1ex

Member
The article specifically discusses an app within the Quest called Horizon, not the Quest engagement itself. It's a silly app and not a reason anyone I know would ever buy the device for anyway. The article is irrelevant for overall engagement.
"Quest retention rates, meaning continued use by owners, have dropped in each of the past three years, the documents show. More than half of Quest headsets—the entry model costs about $400—aren’t in use six months after they are purchased, according to people familiar with the data."
 

Romulus

Member
VR is dead. GC means Gamecube in case that was the hurdle for you.

I know what GC means, that's really the only thing that made sense about your post. But you fail to even read anything it seems, you keep being obtuse because you know your argument is based on an agenda.
"Quest retention rates, meaning continued use by owners, have dropped in each of the past three years, the documents show. More than half of Quest headsets—the entry model costs about $400—aren’t in use six months after they are purchased, according to people familiar with the data."

I like how you just copy and paste things and I have to go look them up. lol. First, you sent me an article about Horizon now this. This was exactly what was already discussed here and Quest 2 not having games. This is old. We don't know how this compares to Quest 3 for your point to even make sense(actually none it of as of yet has)
 
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tr1p1ex

Member
I know what GC means, that's really the only thing that made sense about your post. But you fail to even read anything it seems, you keep being obtuse because you know your argument is based on an agenda.


I like how you just copy and paste things and I have to go look them up. lol. First, you sent me an article about Horizon now this. This was exactly what was already discussed here and Quest 2 not having games. This is old. We don't know how this compares to Quest 3 for your point to even make sense(actually none of as of yet)
ok step away from the mirror. Gamecube was a failure. Sold more than the Quest which you say is a success. Get it now? ;). Simple point. And Nintendo actually spent money making a lot of big games for it. Great games. Meta's made basically nothing.

lol the quote is from the same article. Just wasn't in the 1st or 2nd paragraph. ;)

Yes it isn't the newest data pt now. Quest 3 did maybe million sales in its first ~9 months is the only data point I have seen.

Anyway it's pretty obvious VR is not taking off. IT's hanging on at best. Surviving. Being subsidized by a really wealthy company in a different business that has some interest in making sure they have a seat at the table to protect their current business in case VR (and metaverse) takes off. And helped by a CEO and the surrounding culture have Snow Crash on the brain.
 
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Astray

Member
I agree 100%. I don't have enough space in my apartment as my furniture gets in the way. I'm not planning to throw my quality furniture in the trash. If I want VR ready room I will also need to throw my bed away which is insane.

Nothing against VR, it is cool, but only if you have a big house as it is a nightmare to set up in regular apartments.
The wife and I have a shared home office/storage room, and we oriented the desks closets etc to create as much space as possible (about 2x4 meters iirc), and games are decently playable with a decent room for movement. But most people don't really have the space for that.

So it's either Sit-down mode or playing in a cramped area.. Both of which kinda suck.
 

Romulus

Member
ok step away from the mirror. Gamecube was a failure. Sold more than the Quest which you say is a success. Get it now? ;). Simple point. And Nintendo actually spend money making a lot of games for it. Great games. Meta's made basically nothing.

lol the quote is from the same article. Just wasn't in the 1st or 2nd paragraph. ;)

Yes it isn't the newest data pt now. Quest 3 seemed to do a million sales in its first ~9 months is the only thing I saw.

Anyway it's pretty painful is not taking off. IT's hanging on at best. Surviving. Being helped by a really wealthy company with a different business that has some interest in making sure they have a seat at the table in case VR (and metaverse) takes off. And whose CEO and the surrounding culture have Snow Crash on the brain.


I'll just stop at your first sentence since this is fun.

Gamecube was on sale for 5.5 years. You're comparing that to less than 2 years of Quest 2.

Do you want to keep going, because I have more? But can we establish that 2 and 5.5 are not the same amount of years?
 
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tr1p1ex

Member
I'll just stop at your first sentence since this is fun.

Gamecube was on sale for 5.5 years. You're comparing that to less than 2 years of Quest 2.

Do you want to keep going, because I have more? But can we establish that 2 and 5.5 are not the same amount of years?
IT was 5 years and Quest 2 was 3 years and Q2 continued to be widely available for a good year after Q3 came out. GC pretty much stopped selling after 3 years. The 5th year little came out. Xbox eventually stole all the 3rd parties. PS2 was of course huge.

Quest2 basically had no competition in the VR space and only can manage GC-like sales? And it took Meta losing seemingly tens of billions for that to happen. If Nintendo wanted to or could lose tens of billions back then...they could have greatly juiced GC sales. ;)

Reality is no matter how much you love or hate VR it's not taking off at this point. It's hanging on at best.

Maybe in virtual reality the story seems different.
 
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Romulus

Member
IT was 5 years and Quest 2 was 3 years and Q2 continued to be on sale for a good year after Q3 came out. GC pretty much stopped selling after 3 years. The 5th year little came out. Xbox eventually stole all the 3rd parties. PS2 was of course huge.

Quest2 basically had no competition in the VR space and only can manage GC-like sales? And it took Meta losing seemingly tens of billions for that to happen. If Nintendo wanted to or could lose tens of billions back then...they could have greatly juiced GC sales. ;)

Reality is no matter how much you love or hate VR it's not taking off at this point. It's hanging on at best.

Maybe in virtual reality the story seems different.

The article of twenty million quest sales was over 2 years ago. Quest didn't even launch until the end of 2020. It's just not the same no matter how you spin it. Not to mention it did that without games lol
 
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tr1p1ex

Member
The article of twenty million quest sales was over 2 years ago. Quest didn't even launch until the end of 2020. It's just not the same no matter how. Not to mention it did that without games lol
yes it did it out of novelty. That's why over half the units gather dust after 6 months.

And whether the number is 20 mn or 25 mn... or 29mn or 34mn....the point stands. It's not taking off. IT's a failure as a console platform. IT's a massive money loser for Meta. And no one is throwing gobs of money at VR development. That ship sailed.

Love it or hate it. CAll a spade a spade.
 

Romulus

Member
Yes it isn't the newest data pt now. Quest 3 did maybe million sales in its first ~9 months is the only data point I have seen.

Anyway it's pretty obvious VR is not taking off. IT's hanging on at best. Surviving. Being subsidized by a really wealthy company in a different business that has some interest in making sure they have a seat at the table to protect their current business in case VR (and metaverse) takes off. And helped by a CEO and the surrounding culture have Snow Crash on the brain.


So your newest data point of a million is based on another debunked app download. It was an optional app you could download and supposedly a million people tried it. That's really your argument?

You're trying to prove VR is dying based on old Quest 2 articles using app downloads as your reference while citing an optional download for Quest 3.:messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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tr1p1ex

Member
So you're newest data point of a million is based on another debunked app download. It was an optional app you could download and supposedly a million people tried it. That's really your argument?

You trying to prove VR is dying based on old Quest 2 articles using app downloads as your reference while citing an optional download for Quest 3.:messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

Hey feel free to provide Quest3 sales numbers.

Your evidence cup is empty.

All evidence says VR is hanging on.
 
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LRKD

Member
The PSVR was far more of a hassle then ever a joy, for me that purchase was an insta regret.

I think VR could work at some point, but I think the hardware needs more advancements. Perhaps a screen that could adapt to the users eyes, so that you don't need to worry about either cramming your glasses under the headset or wearing contacts. Maybe cable free, or a at least a single cable unit. The psvr 1 added like 10 cables to the ps4, it was insane. The VR unit was always incredibly picky about where I was in the room, and the rooms lighting, so more freedom with that would be nice, especially for people in small apartments, or who play in the middle of the day. Some way to make the headset lighter/more immersive. Not sure if hardware or software could ever achieve it, but something to combat motion sickness for user who experience would go a long way too. Better controller options. and better games, felt like developers had no clue what to even do with vr, most of the library felt like crummy minigames, and tech demos.

Maybe had I tried one of the PC Vr units I'd be more impressed, but the PSVR left me massively disappointed, and ready to wait for huge leaps until ever trying vr again.
 

Romulus

Member
All evidence says VR is hanging on.

This is your evidence of a million sales. Everyone saw it and laughed at but you're over here wanting to invade Iraq over it.

there's no obligation to complete First Encounters. You could refuse to scan your room mesh or you could quit and skip the experience at any time. It's also unclear whether people who have their profile set to private are included in the 1 million figure. If they're not, Quest 3 sales are likely far in excess of 1 million.

They have absolutely no idea. But hey 1 million according to you. lol. Makes alot of sense you would bring that up reading your other posts though.


 
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Romulus

Member
Anyway it's pretty obvious VR is not taking off. IT's hanging on at best. Surviving. Being subsidized by a really wealthy company in a different business that has some interest in making sure they have a seat at the table to protect their current business in case VR (and metaverse) takes off. And helped by a CEO and the surrounding culture have Snow Crash on the brain.

Hanging on based on app data that is optional. lmao

So why is Valve bringing out another headset? So is Pimax, Bigscreen, and Samsung. Is Meta funding those new 2025 headsets too? ;) Break it down for me since meta is the only one involved here.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Anyway it's pretty obvious VR is not taking off. IT's hanging on at best. Surviving. Being subsidized by a really wealthy company in a different business that has some interest in making sure they have a seat at the table to protect their current business in case VR (and metaverse) takes off. And helped by a CEO and the surrounding culture have Snow Crash on the brain.
Exactly.

VR would had died off years ago if Facebook didnt have deep pockets to keep VR alive. They have a net loss of $10 billion/Yr for I think 3 years in a row messing with their VR metaverse and hardware. Lucky for them they make about $40B profit last time I checked on FB and Instagram, so they still make $30B/yr as a whole company.

What you'd have left is Valve VR, PSVR and whatever drips and drabs VR goggles from other makers if Quests disappeared.

But Zuck has deep pockets to keep the VR dream alive. So Quests stay alive.
 
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Romulus

Member
VR would had died off years ago if Facebook didnt have deep pockets to keep VR alive. They have a new loss of $10 billion/Yr for I think 3 years in a row messing with their VR metaverse and hardware.

What you'd have left is Valve VR, PSVR and whatever drips and drabs VR goggles from other makers.

But Zuck has deep pockets to keep the VR dream alive.


If you look into the losses, there's an "AR research" part of it. So we don't know how much of it is VR and Quest-related. They lump their AR glasses into that "losses" category.

On top of that, if Meta disappeared, Valve, Sony, Samsung, Pimax, and Bigscreen are doing VR. You essentially said it, but they're not connected to Meta. You can label it as dabbling etc, but I don't think a VR headset is some joke investment.
 
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tr1p1ex

Member
This is your evidence of a million sales. Everyone saw it and laughed at but you're over here wanting to invade Iraq over it.



They have absolutely no idea. But hey 1 million according to you. lol. Makes alot of sense you would bring that up reading your other posts though.


You have zero evidence!!! And that's not where the 1mn even came from if you're keeping score at home.

You've lost track of reality because you've spent too much time with the goggles on.
 

Romulus

Member
You have zero evidence!!! And that's not where the 1mn even came from if you're keeping score at home.

You've lost track of reality because you've spent too much time with the goggles on.

I never said I did. You're the one that showed up saying VR is dying based on an optional app.

Show otherwise then if you got your info somewhere else(you won't)
 
Biggest obstacle to VR is motion sickness, it limits the type of games people can use in VR.
VR was supposed to be the next evolution of gaming, being in the game was going to be revolutionary vs staring at a screen.
It was disappointing when I found out I couldn't walk/run my character around in VR without getting motioning sickness 🤢.
Until they can trick our brains into not getting sick from playing something like Skyrim, or GTA in VR it may never see broad adoption.

Unfortunately this is true ..

Whenever i play Fallout 4 VR or Doom VR i have to use the teleport mode to avoid this.
 

tr1p1ex

Member
Exactly.

VR would had died off years ago if Facebook didnt have deep pockets to keep VR alive. They have a net loss of $10 billion/Yr for I think 3 years in a row messing with their VR metaverse and hardware. Lucky for them they make about $40B profit last time I checked on FB and Instagram, so they still make $30B/yr as a whole company.

What you'd have left is Valve VR, PSVR and whatever drips and drabs VR goggles from other makers if Quests disappeared.

But Zuck has deep pockets to keep the VR dream alive. So Quests stay alive.
And Valve likely has lost money on VR but writes it off as a store expense.
 

tr1p1ex

Member
I never said I did. You're the one that showed up saying VR is dying based on an optional app.

Show otherwise then if you got your info somewhere else(you won't)
Never seen a guy so happy to have zero evidence. But the mountains of evidence supporting the reality he doesn't like are all wrong!!!
 
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