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It's time to decriminalize sex work

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Deleted member 47027

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I'm friends with a few sex workers and they are typically treated lower than dirt, no matter what department is dealing with them, as they view their work as "dirty" - but hopefully sex work can get a better shake, and have its workers feel more like legitimate workers than dismissed as whores. Mumei brought me this article that shows that the proof's here - it's vital to our public safety to decriminalize sex work, for multiple reasons. Read more below and at the link. It's a long read, but very important.

The Evidence Is In: Decriminalizing Sex Work Is Critical to Public Health

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2...riminalizing-sex-work-critical-public-health/

During the 2014 International AIDS conference, The Lancet medical journal released a series of articles focused exclusively on HIV and sex work. One study by Kate Shannon et al., demonstrates that decriminalization of sex work could reduce HIV infections by 33 to 46 percent over the next decade. Shannon’s team showed that “multi-pronged structural and community-led interventions” are essential to promoting the human rights of sex workers, as well as improving their access to HIV prevention and treatment. Dr. Chris Beyrer, the researcher who coordinated this Lancet series, told AIDS conference participants that “[e]fforts to improve HIV prevention and treatment by and for people who sell sex can no longer be seen as peripheral to the achievement of universal access to HIV services and to eventual control of the pandemic,” drawing an irrefutable line between the social, legal, and economic injustices sex workers face and their subsequent vulnerability to HIV.

Sex work has been decriminalized in New Zealand and one province (New South Wales) in Australia leaving sex work businesses subject to standard occupational health and safety regulations. Law enforcement treats the sale of sex as it does any other business, without any intrusion or interruption unless existing laws are being violated.

Decriminalization has resulted in higher rates of condom use and enables sex workers to organize community-based health practices that demonstrably improve health and reduce HIV risk. It also makes it possible for sex workers to report and for the police to address illegal acts as they occur, such as assault, theft of services, employment of minors, or client coercion. In this decriminalized setting, sex workers can be strong allies in the fight against trafficking, intimate partner violence, and child abuse since they can report incidents to the police and social service agencies without putting themselves at risk of arrest.

So, why is the HIV-AIDS field only just beginning to recognize the connection between the decriminalization of sex work and HIV? And why is the trend toward criminalizing populations involved in the sex trades increasing in the United States—moving in the opposite direction from other countries? The following are three contributing factors.

Conflating Sex Work With Trafficking

Public debate around sex work in the United States increasingly focuses on people who have been trafficked or otherwise coerced into the sex trade. Anti-trafficking advocates conflate sex work (people choosing to sell sexual services from among employment options available to them) with trafficking (people being forced into the sex industry against their will). Laws that criminalize all people selling sex (voluntarily or involuntarily) violate the rights of the former and undermine efforts to identify and assist the latter. The Global Commission on HIV and the Law states unequivocally that, “Sex work and sex trafficking are not the same. The difference is that the former is consensual, whereas the latter is coercive.”

A commentary by Steen et al. in the recent Lancet series notes that “repressive and counterproductive police action,” including the arrest and incarceration of trafficking victims for the purposes of “rescue,” has overtaken far more effective responses in several countries. The understandable, but destructively over-simplified, mandate to “rescue and restore” sex workers is also being imposed in public health settings where providers are now charged with identifying and intervening with potential victims of trafficking in the sex trade. Certainly, health-care providers have a duty to watch for and help patients in abusive situations of all kinds. They also have a duty to understand the complexities of human experience, respond to patient-identified needs, and maintain that patients are experts of their own lives, whatever that may look like.

Lack of Access to Health Care for Sex Workers

Providing access to health-care services targeted to consumers’ needs is a vital part of any country’s HIV response. Without it, those most in need of prevention, care, and treatment are least likely to get it.

In a 2010 survey, 53 percent of medical students said they were not adequately trained to address their patients’ sexual issues comfortably. Far fewer professional medical curricula explicitly prepare students to understand that they will encounter sex workers as patients who, like all other patients, are individuals with a wide range of experiences, backgrounds, and needs that can best be treated with patient-centered care.

When sex workers receive demeaning and unprofessional treatment in health-care settings, they see health-care providers as an extension of the larger system that criminalizes them. A survey by the New York City-based Persist Health Project found that few sex workers disclosed their occupation to their health-care provider; only one study participant reported a positive experience after doing so. As one respondent explained, “I think for security reasons, I don’t usually disclose. Mainly because I don’t trust doctors … I sort of treat them like law enforcement.” Another noted that most health-care providers “have no clue who you are, no clue about your background, you can’t read them or know that they’re not going to try to lecture you or give you a stink-eye.”

St. James Infirmary, a peer-based occupational safety and health clinic for sex workers in San Francisco, corroborates these findings. Of their incoming patients, 70 percent had never previously disclosed their occupation to a medical provider for feared of bad treatment. Providing sex-worker friendly health care requires training health-care workers appropriately and supporting services designed specifically with and for the communities they serve.

Violence Risk Exacerbated by Criminalization

People usually envision a sex worker as someone soliciting on the street, but only about 20 percent of U.S. sex workers are street-based. The vast majority see clients in other venues including massage parlors, brothels, apartments they share with other sex workers, or a client’s hotel room. Many connect with clients online.

HIV risk is high among street-based sex workers who experience high levels of violence at the hands of clients and abusive law enforcement personnel. One important way they reduce this risk is assessing a potential client before getting into his car—looking for signals that he might be violent and relaying his license number to a colleague in case the worker disappears. This assessment time is also used to negotiate price and condom use. Law enforcement crack-downs compel sex workers to complete their negotiations quickly (in order to avoid arrest), depriving them of the time needed for assessment and negotiation.

Street-based sex workers have little or no protection if a client becomes violent or refuses to use a condom. Of the street-based workers surveyed in The Lancet study by Shannon et al., 25 percent reported being pressured by clients to have sex without a condom. Those working in remote areas (such as industrial parks) to escape local policing were three times more likely to report being pressured into having sex without a condom than the study population overall. The recent Lancet series data also shows that, in some countries, up to one-third of sex workers do not carry an adequate supply of condoms due to “condoms as evidence” policies that allow police to seize a sex worker’s condom supply and use it as evidence of their intent to engaged in sex work—a widely-used policy in several U.S. cities.

Getting From Here to There

Punitive laws against sex work are in place in 116 countries, including the United States, creating, according to the Open Society Foundations, “a state-sanctioned culture of stigma, discrimination, exploitation, and police and client violence against sex workers.”

Decriminalizing sex work in the United States is a long and challenging process, but there is a path to follow. The 1988 ban on federal funding for syringe exchange remained in place for 20 years and, after briefly lifting it in 2009, the Obama administration agreed to its reinstatement in 2011 at Congress’ insistence. Advocacy pressure to overturn it continues.

Thanks to the efforts of dedicated researchers and activists during the two decades between 1988-2009, public health professionals, medical institutions and virtually everyone working in the HIV-AIDS field learned why harm reduction practices are essential. Services to people who use drugs began to improve, although they are still inadequate, primarily because they are grossly under-funded. Progress has been made.


But sex workers’ rights organizations in most U.S. cities, though heavily marginalized, have not been silent. They are struggling to end “condoms as evidence” practices, train health-care providers, find or establish sex worker-friendly health-care services, and demand their rightful place as invaluable allies in ending human trafficking and preventing the spread of HIV. Like the harm reductionists who set up the first syringe exchange sites in the United States, they need the support of mainstream sexual and reproductive health advocates willing to learn from them and join them. Like the early harm reductionists, they need the rest of us to bring our money, skills, and political support this human rights struggle.

We can’t stop HIV in the United States without sustainable and long-term solutions to end the arrest, detention, and incarceration of sex workers in the United States, as well as end the violations against sex workers within the correctional system. A meta-analysis of more than 800 other studies and reports, published in the recent Lancet series, listed abuse experienced by sex workers as including “homicide; physical and sexual violence, from law enforcement, clients, and intimate partners; unlawful arrest and detention; discrimination in accessing health services; and forced HIV testing.” It added “protection of sex workers is essential to respect, protect, and meet their human rights, and to improve their health and well-being.”

Some takeaways: Decriminalizing sex work encourages safe sex, education, health, reduces the risk of violence, and access to health care. Let's get it happening.
 
I'm friends with a few sex workers and they are typically treated lower than dirt, no matter what department is dealing with them, as they view their work as "dirty" - but hopefully sex work can get a better shake, and have its workers feel more like legitimate workers than dismissed as whores. Mumei brought me this article that shows that the proof's here - it's vital to our public safety to decriminalize sex work, for multiple reasons. Read more below and at the link. It's a long read, but very important.

The Evidence Is In: Decriminalizing Sex Work Is Critical to Public Health

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2...riminalizing-sex-work-critical-public-health/



Some takeaways: Decriminalizing sex work encourages safe sex, education, health, reduces the risk of violence, and access to health care. Let's get it happening.

It also empowers and protects women.

We're way past time for this to happen.
 

Guevara

Member
Dude, the U.S. can't even fully decriminalize pot. POT. Literally a few generations would have to die off first.
 
I agree. People bring up the idea of Unionising too, but there's an interesting episode of (I think) The West Wing where a character suggests this, only to have the reply that women won't suddenly start being proud and open about being prostitutes just because they're legal, which makes organising unions (to exert political pressure etc) harder than in most industries. It's an interesting counter point.
 

bjork

Member
Legalize this and some drugs, and drop the tax exemption on religious stuff. Maybe just in one area to prove it can work at first, then let it spread.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
I feel that the legalization and normalization of prostitution might worsen the issue of human trafficking. If prostitution is legal, pimps will be able to import women (many who may be underage, victims of abuse, or addicted to narcotics) much more easily.

Because prostitution is all about entitlement to sex, I'm a bit fearful that a government endorsement of prostitution (primarily a service for straight men) will harm women ultimately. It's completely legal for a woman's body to be treated as a commodity that's rented like a pick-up truck. I worry that this could impede women's rights and encourage the objectification of women.

Cracking down on pimps and clients, creating programs to protect and help former prostitutes, and ensuring that less women have to turn to prostitution, would do much more good.
 
Dude, the U.S. can't even fully decriminalize pot. POT. Literally a few generations would have to die off first.

Pot is already on its way. It took a long time, but I think we're past that tipping point where it's just a matter of time.

I feel that the legalization and normalization of prostitution might worsen the issue of human trafficking. If prostitution is legal, pimps will be able to import women (many who may be underage, victims of abuse, or addicted to narcotics) much more easily.

Because prostitution is all about entitlement to sex, I'm a bit fearful that a government endorsement of prostitution (primarily a service for straight men) will harm women ultimately. It's completely legal for a woman's body to be treated as a commodity that's rented like a pick-up truck. I worry that this could impede women's rights and encourage the objectification of women.

You have that completely reversed. All that shit happens now just because there is no regulation and no one is overseeing the trade.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Absolutely. The oldest trade. As certain as death and taxes, in hundreds of years as long as their is society it will continue. Spending efforts and resources to police it could be far more well spent in raising standards and ensuring safe practice.
 

Zona

Member
I feel that the legalization and normalization of prostitution might worsen the issue of human trafficking. If prostitution is legal, pimps will be able to import women (many who may be underage, victims of abuse, or addicted to narcotics) much more easily.

Because prostitution is all about entitlement to sex, I'm a bit fearful that a government endorsement of prostitution (primarily a service for straight men) will harm women ultimately. It's completely legal for a woman's body to be treated as a commodity that's rented like a pick-up truck. I worry that this could impede women's rights and encourage the objectification of women.

If prostitution is legal the smuggled girls will have less to fear about going to the authorities. Think of it as a prohibition thing. Banning alcohol didn't stop people from drinking it, it just encouraged a lot of other crime to spring up around it.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
People would rather continue to support a failed policy than to bend their particular values and morals and do what would actually benefit society and those people directly affected by it. Same for the war on drugs. We know it doesn't work but most people would rather continue pouring billions into it and jailing thousands upon thousands to show we won't bend to such depravity even though none of it's working.

It's really stupid. Especially when you see how prevalent and influential brothels and whore houses were throughout all of American history, especially during the expansion westward. Shit wasn't pretty, that's for sure, but there was a lot more too it.
 

ampere

Member
I tend to agree, OP. If someone really wants to do sex acts for a living, provided they are not forced into it, I think that's OK to be legal. As long as it's handled safely.

leaving sex work businesses subject to standard occupational health and safety regulations. Law enforcement treats the sale of sex as it does any other business, without any intrusion or interruption unless existing laws are being violated.

This is pretty big. Right now some of those girls/guys might be afraid to go to the cops if someone hurts them. Plus the businesses have to operate underground which usually gets intertwined with illegal drug trade (another problem to tackle).
 

Valhelm

contribute something
If prostitution is legal the smuggled girls will have less to fear about going to the authorities. Think of it as a prohibition thing. Banning alcohol didn't stop people from drinking it, it just encouraged a lot of other crime to spring up around it.

Sex work and alcohol aren't analogous because sex work has not recently been legal in the United States. People who have a habit of soliciting prostitutes won't be forced to change their ways by the law, as they're already criminals. Making sex work legal encourages more women to be imported, probably in very unsafe and illegal conditions. We will see many more women, many of them underage, being brought by the boatload to the United States by pimps who know that a handful of forged green cards will allow them to operate freely.

Personally, I believe that prostitution is a bad thing, and shouldn't be encouraged or allowed. It's much, much more objectifying and inherently misogynistic than pornography or stripping. Allowing sex to be bought like a hamburger would really contribute to the view that sex is something you deserve.

If we make it easier for trafficked women to seek help without fear of arrest or deportation, their rights and safety will be protected even if prostitution is illegal.
 

kirblar

Member
Had posted a thread about a month ago on R.I, (that got two replies, lol) will repost here since it's super-relevant to Vince's point and strongly supports it. Also may consider just sending all interesting econ articles I get from my former professors to Vince now. :p

edit: added in the excerpt I forgot to copy over

Decriminalizing Indoor Prostituation in Rhode Island reduced STD, Rape rates.

Had seen this on my ECON feed a few days ago, and VOX did a good job going into more detail on the study itself. In 2003 Rhode Island accidentally decriminalized indoor prostitution, and was thus able to be used as a test case to check on what sorts of secondary effects this would cause. They modeled the expected rates for the years indoor prostitution was legal, and found a 31% estimated reduction in Rape and a 39% estimated reduction in female Gonorrhea over the time frame. They provided some possible explanations below as to what factors could have contributed to this, which I've C/P'd from the VOX article below. It's nice to have data that backs up legalization, as its something that would vastly benefit a large number of people if we could get it past people's ingrained cultural norms.

Vox writeup here- http://www.vox.com/2014/7/15/5898187/prostitution-rhode-island-decriminalized

NBER paper here- http://www.nber.org/papers/w20281?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw
Why did it happen?

The authors are honest in their paper: they're not quite sure.

"While we would like to say something conclusive about the mechanisms post-decriminalization which led to the observed decreases in rape offenses and gonorrhea incidence, we are careful to note that this discussion on pathways is merely suggestive," the authors write. "We are not claiming to have identified the causal channels which link the change in decriminalization to the behavioral outcomes of interest."

They do serve up some hypotheses, though.

Decriminalizing indoor prostitution could improve the bargaining position of female sex workers relative to clients, leading to lower rates of victimization. Research from the late 1990s found that indoor sex workers are victimized considerably less than outdoor street walkers. The legal quirk in Rhode Island only applied to indoor sex work, which could have resulted in some prostitutes abandoning outdoor business for its decriminalized — and safer — counterpart.It's also possible that decriminalizing sex work allows firms to invest more money in security (locks, security cameras, security guards), increases cooperation with police, and decreases the potential for police corruption — all things that could lower the incidence of rape.

The authors offer a third, uncomfortable hypothesis: it's possible that violent males consider prostitution and rape as "substitutes". With prostitution legally acceptable and cheaper than when it was a criminal offense, would-be rapists might shift away from violence toward women, opting to purchase sex instead.

"While speculative, there is anecdotal evidence for this," the authors write. "In the 2010 documentary Happy Endings, which is about the efforts of Rhode Island to re-criminalize indoor sex work, there is a scene where a sex worker claims that she believes the men she services would have raped other women had they not come to see her."

It's a bit easier to understand why decriminalizing indoor sex work might've reduced gonorrhea rates. The authors' analysis found that higher-risk sex acts (like fellatio without a condom, or anal sex) decreased markedly following decriminalization. This finding is consistent with past work suggesting that prostitutes who work indoors are less likely to contract and transmit sexually-transmitted diseases.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
decriminalizing prostitution will hurt the demand of sex purchased through sex traffickers. I think this would be a great thing.

Yeah but most governments don't see this and they spout the "but think of the women! They are being forced to this by not having a real job"
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
The US is pretty puritanical when it comes to sex, even for people who do not identify with fundamentalist Christians, I don't see this getting much traction.




No, I don't understand the antipathy either.


Yeah but most governments don't see this and they spout the "but think of the women! They are being forced to this by not having a real job"

I think it is more a practical consideration by politicians, and officials, who only see an uphill battle with little rewards in terms of preserving or advancing their own position.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Had posted a thread about a month ago on R.I, (that got two replies, lol) will repost here since it's super-relevant to Vince's point and strongly supports it. Also may consider just sending all interesting econ articles I get from my former professors to Vince now. :p

Good stuff here as well. You can't argue these numbers.
 

collige

Banned
If we make it easier for trafficked women to seek help without fear of arrest or deportation, their rights and safety will be protected even if prostitution is illegal.

There is no reason not to do both. There are many sex workers that weren't trafficked. Then there's also the moral argument based off body autonomy.
 

Camwi

Member
Yep. There are so many positives and so few negatives to legalizing prostitution, but of course our country is too prudish to actually do it.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Sex work and alcohol aren't analogous because sex work has not recently been legal in the United States. People who have a habit of soliciting prostitutes won't be forced to change their ways by the law, as they're already criminals. Making sex work legal encourages more women to be imported, probably in very unsafe and illegal conditions. We will see many more women, many of them underage, being brought by the boatload to the United States by pimps who know that a handful of forged green cards will allow them to operate freely.

Personally, I believe that prostitution is a bad thing, and shouldn't be encouraged or allowed. It's much, much more objectifying and inherently misogynistic than pornography or stripping. Allowing sex to be bought like a hamburger would really contribute to the view that sex is something you deserve.

If we make it easier for trafficked women to seek help without fear of arrest or deportation, their rights and safety will be protected even if prostitution is illegal.
Maggie McNeill disagrees with many of your premises:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2fCPvuoHx0
(Transcript and audio only at: http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/07/14/former-sex-worker-activist-maggie-mcneil)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/27/lies-damned-lies-and-sex-work-statistics/
 

kirblar

Member
Sex work and alcohol aren't analogous because sex work has not recently been legal in the United States. People who have a habit of soliciting prostitutes won't be forced to change their ways by the law, as they're already criminals. Making sex work legal encourages more women to be imported, probably in very unsafe and illegal conditions. We will see many more women, many of them underage, being brought by the boatload to the United States by pimps who know that a handful of forged green cards will allow them to operate freely.

Personally, I believe that prostitution is a bad thing, and shouldn't be encouraged or allowed. It's much, much more objectifying and inherently misogynistic than pornography or stripping. Allowing sex to be bought like a hamburger would really contribute to the view that sex is something you deserve.

If we make it easier for trafficked women to seek help without fear of arrest or deportation, their rights and safety will be protected even if prostitution is illegal.
The market for sex isn't going to go away because you ban it. It just gets driven entirely to the black market, which makes it far more dangerous for everyone involved.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Some stats from the countries where they have legalized this would be good. I see a lot of stats about how bad it is now, and some qualitative statements about how it might improve, but as someone has already effectively done the experiment data from that would be the most convincing.
 

Brakke

Banned
Sex work and alcohol aren't analogous because sex work has not recently been legal in the United States. People who have a habit of soliciting prostitutes won't be forced to change their ways by the law, as they're already criminals. Making sex work legal encourages more women to be imported, probably in very unsafe and illegal conditions. We will see many more women, many of them underage, being brought by the boatload to the United States by pimps who know that a handful of forged green cards will allow them to operate freely.

This is all baseless conjecture though. There's so many forces you're not accounting for. What if legalized prostitution encouraged a flood of of-age women to become prostitutes? You're assuming legalizing it would increase the demand side but you're leaving out that it could just as easily increase the supply side. You'd see both curves shift in pretty huge and hard to anticipate ways, there's no reason to think the new market equilibrium sits at such a point that coerced prostitution becomes more prevalent than it is now. If voluntary supply swung super far out, sex work could easily become cheaper over all and thereby discourage coercion.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
The market for sex isn't going to go away because you ban it. It just gets driven entirely to the black market, which makes it far more dangerous for everyone involved.

Yeah. Sex work will always, always be there. It's something that's not affected by the economy. Why not regulate it, make standards? It's safer for everyone. Workers, clients, general health.
 
I feel like the biggest potential downside is that legalization may create a level of demand that will create the conditions for more human trafficking to occur to fulfill that demand.

And yes, legalization will give them legal recourse but the victims will usually not be able to speak English.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
There is no reason not to do both. There are many sex workers that weren't trafficked. Then there's also the moral argument based off body autonomy.

I could support prostitution being legalized in very limited, regulated forms, but the lives of most prostitutes (even if they aren't trafficked) seem so awful that I could never vote to legalize with a good conscience. I don't want my government to endorse an industry that toxic.

Unless pimps, street prostitution, trafficking, and sex worker abuse are illegal and prevented, I can't support the normalization of sex work.

This is all baseless conjecture though. There's so many forces you're not accounting for. What if legalized prostitution encouraged a flood of of-age women to become prostitutes? You're assuming legalizing it would increase the demand side but you're leaving out that it could just as easily increase the supply side. You'd see both curves shift in pretty huge and hard to anticipate ways, there's no reason to think the new market equilibrium sits at such a point that coerced prostitution becomes more prevalent than it is now. If voluntary supply swung super far out, sex work could easily become cheaper over all and thereby discourage coercion.

I highly doubt a large number of women would decide to become sex workers. It seems that the number of prostitutes who enjoy their work is very, very low. While a woman in New Zealand who makes $400 a night might enjoy it, very few sex workers live so comfortably.
 

Damaniel

Banned
This seems like a total no-brainer to me. The truly criminal aspects of the sex trade (trafficking, abuse, etc.) all occur because nobody feels like they can speak out without putting themselves at risk of arrest. If you create a network of brothels that follow standard labor laws (plus laws that make more sense in the sex trade, like mandatory condom use), pimps disappear overnight, underage and foreign trafficking become greatly reduced (most businesses won't hire undocumented workers, and no business will hire underage workers), and more money makes it into the pockets of the workers themselves.

The problem is that our country is run by moral conservative evangelicals, and they can't get off unless they're doing something wrong. Prostitution would lose all of its allure to them if we legalized it.
 

kirblar

Member
Some stats from the countries where they have legalized this would be good. I see a lot of stats about how bad it is now, and some qualitative statements about how it might improve, but as someone has already effectively done the experiment data from that would be the most convincing.
See my first post in the thread for the data. We accidentally did that in Rhode Island and got hard data.
 
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