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J.J. Abrams Says Rian Johnson ‘Didn’t Derail’ the ‘Star Wars’ Story in ‘Last Jedi’

#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Rian Johnson’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” surprised many fans by upending a lot of the expectations J.J. Abrams set in his trilogy starter “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” Some fans have criticized Johnson for his creative choices, but Abrams tells the Associated Press that nothing Johnson executed in “The Last Jedi” threw off track the narrative that Lucasfilm planned for the latest trilogy since the beginning.

“The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue,” Abrams said. “Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”

One decision Johnson made in “The Last Jedi” that threw fans for a loop was killing off Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) without revealing any of the character’s backstory. Abrams’ introduction of the character in “The Force Awakens” led many fans to believe Snoke would be the primary antagonist of the trilogy (similar to Emperor Palpatine) and theorize about Snoke’s real identity. Johnson threw out fan theory speculation by simply killing the character without fanfare. Fans did not know it at the time, but Palpatine is now returning for “The Rise of Skywalker.” The way Abrams talks about it makes it sound like Palpatine’s return was always in the cards, which would mean Johnson’s decision to kill Snoke in “The Last Jedi” didn’t change the larger narrative at all.

www.indiewire.com

J.J. Abrams Says Rian Johnson ‘Didn’t Derail’ the ‘Star Wars’ Story in ‘Last Jedi’

Abrams is clearing up the alleged friction between his movies and Johnson's "The Last Jedi."
www.indiewire.com www.indiewire.com
 
Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
#Phonepunk# said:
Abrams tells the Associated Press that nothing Johnson executed in “The Last Jedi” threw off track the narrative that Lucasfilm planned for the latest trilogy since the beginning.
Click to expand...

Hard to throw a plan off track when there wasn't one.

Abrams’ introduction of the character in “The Force Awakens” led many fans to believe Snoke would be the primary antagonist of the trilogy (similar to Emperor Palpatine) and theorize about Snoke’s real identity. Johnson threw out fan theory speculation by simply killing the character without fanfare. Fans did not know it at the time, but Palpatine is now returning for “The Rise of Skywalker.” The way Abrams talks about it makes it sound like Palpatine’s return was always in the cards, which would mean Johnson’s decision to kill Snoke in “The Last Jedi” didn’t change the larger narrative at all.
Click to expand...

That is such a joke, so regardless of what Johnson did, they had a plan to set up Snoke as a fake villain and bring Palpatine back in the third part? And Johnson just randomly killing off the character with no fanfare fits right into the plan? How does this make anything better even if this is true?
 
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Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
Nothing was planned, im still laughing at how much of a failure the Lucas Art story team proved to be. Like you have to actively try to mess up Star Wars, and they succeeded in that to a degree I couldn’t imagine.

But any criticism of them will be reflected as toxic fandom. If I screwed up that much at my job I’d be fired.
 
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JareBear: Remastered

JareBear: Remastered

Banned
Richard Packer said:
Fuck what's was the breakdown? That's a lot of food.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
I do wonder what we’d want out of him, to come out and say “yeah that little bitch completely screwed over the vision we had and this has been a challenge to fix” or what we got “all’s good, nothing to see here”. Like what would there really be for him to gain by throwing other directors under the bus? Nothing of value that I can see except for some pissed off relationships with industry insiders.
 
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Guardian's Light

Guardian's Light

Member
#Phonepunk# said:
Rian Johnson’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” surprised many fans by upending a lot of the expectations J.J. Abrams set in his trilogy starter “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.” Some fans have criticized Johnson for his creative choices, but Abrams tells the Associated Press that nothing Johnson executed in “The Last Jedi” threw off track the narrative that Lucasfilm planned for the latest trilogy since the beginning.

“The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue,” Abrams said. “Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”

One decision Johnson made in “The Last Jedi” that threw fans for a loop was killing off Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) without revealing any of the character’s backstory. Abrams’ introduction of the character in “The Force Awakens” led many fans to believe Snoke would be the primary antagonist of the trilogy (similar to Emperor Palpatine) and theorize about Snoke’s real identity. Johnson threw out fan theory speculation by simply killing the character without fanfare. Fans did not know it at the time, but Palpatine is now returning for “The Rise of Skywalker.” The way Abrams talks about it makes it sound like Palpatine’s return was always in the cards, which would mean Johnson’s decision to kill Snoke in “The Last Jedi” didn’t change the larger narrative at all.

www.indiewire.com

J.J. Abrams Says Rian Johnson ‘Didn’t Derail’ the ‘Star Wars’ Story in ‘Last Jedi’

Abrams is clearing up the alleged friction between his movies and Johnson's "The Last Jedi."
www.indiewire.com www.indiewire.com
Click to expand...
Lol, I'd never believe Snoke ' s purpose was to do nothing like this
Either he was tought to be someone much more significant than this, or he was some sort of Palpatine' s / Dark side power shell, and We'll know more in 9
ending the trilogy without ever returning to Snoke would be an enormous plothole
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
MrBlack said:
Lol, I'd never believe Snoke ' s purpose was to do nothing like this
Either he was tought to be someone much more significant than this
Click to expand...
tbf TFA set him up as having the influence that he apparently does. not only does he control the First Order as the top in the chain of command, Han and Leia both say he was the reason for Kylo's downfall. yet TLJ was a Kylo centric film which dealt with his turn and Snoke wasn't once mentioned in all of that, it was solely shown to be Luke's responsibility. we get two scenes of Luke's one bad night but the years of corruption, we don't see any of that, it is all handwaved away.

personally i don't think he was always a "nothing character" but that's the post-TLJ narrative. just as the ST retcons the OT, it is retconning itself as well. so he was a "nothing character" that was also the most powerful person in the galaxy and directly responsible for blowing up the Hosnian system. he was a "nothing character" that was also directly involved with Kylo's turn (until he wasn't!). he was a "nothing character" but also seemingly the only person in the films who knew about Rey.

IMO the "nothing character" line is just weak retroactive justification for scraping the barrel yet again. this is why I think "we'll know more in 9" is false hope. they've shown they don't care, they will refuse to answer any questions, even calling fans stupid for wanting to know more.
 
Guardian's Light

Guardian's Light

Member
#Phonepunk# said:
tbf TFA set him up as having the influence that he apparently does. not only does he control the First Order as the top in the chain of command, Han and Leia both say he was the reason for Kylo's downfall. yet TLJ was a Kylo centric film which dealt with his turn and Snoke wasn't once mentioned in all of that, it was solely shown to be Luke's responsibility. we get two scenes of Luke's one bad night but the years of corruption, we don't see any of that, it is all handwaved away.

personally i don't think he was always a "nothing character" but that's the post-TLJ narrative. just as the ST retcons the OT, it is retconning itself as well. so he was a "nothing character" that was also the most powerful person in the galaxy and directly responsible for blowing up the Hosnian system. he was a "nothing character" that was also directly involved with Kylo's turn (until he wasn't!). he was a "nothing character" but also seemingly the only person in the films who knew about Rey.

IMO the "nothing character" line is just weak retroactive justification for scraping the barrel yet again. this is why I think "we'll know more in 9" is false hope. they've shown they don't care, they will refuse to answer any questions, even calling fans stupid for wanting to know more.
Click to expand...
You're right, it's only that I'd never have expected to see him die like an idiot in 8
I mean, ok, we know he was the most powerful etc., but we know no past, we directly see nothing " phisical" from him
Maybe I expected too much, and in my mind Sith or Jedi = has to use a sword and spectacular, coreographical force powers
It's a new type of character, wasted but a new type, more like a behind the scenes strategician

But I don't blame JJ alone, Jar Jar was discarded too hahahaha
Remember he was supposed to be a sith lord and even behind so much things...
Plot change, it's a fact
 
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Caffeine

Caffeine

Member
Now hold on a fucking second because this isn't just about snoke. force awakens opens up 25 questions and the last jedi which is essentially a follow up part 2 film since it starts off within the final scenes of force awakens lightsaber cuts all those questions in half. Halting them before they actually go anywhere. In fact the whole film pretty much ends at a dead end, the resistance is diminished, the first order is diminished, the new republic was obliterated, the galaxy doesnt give a fuck, somehow broom boy knows that skywalker stood up to the first orders reenactment of the battle of hoth on crait.

the movie doesn't move anything forward, all we got was rey got some how to jedi for dummies books, kylo turning scenes expanded upon. and then its basically left open a galaxy in fucking shambles on both sides about to get obliterated by over 200 star destroyers with ion cannons. and the emperor has been chilling as a consciousness or something for 35 years.
 
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#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
i think it's like Kylo's line "You have no place in this story". it's this meta bullshit. what "story?" what the hell is he talking about? it's a bad faith reframing of a good idea. when Rey starts out she wants to know about her parents, this is a pretty normal thing for anyone to understand. by TLJ, it's wiped away, replaced with some vague chosen one commentary. "Rey wants someone to show her her 'place' in all this?" All this what? what the fuck is "this"? the second film starts and our lead character needs someone to show them their place? sounds like a lack of motivation. that's a writer's problem. characters talking like they are addressing the writers instead of each other. this is why the new films fail, they constantly take you out of the movie, they are too self conscious of the audience as consumers. this is why the PT looks even better in their light, Lucas made the movies he wanted to make and if the audience hated them well tough shit.
 
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#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Apexhell said:
essentially a follow up part 2 film since it starts off within the final scenes of force awakens lightsaber
Click to expand...
this is maybe the thing that threw me off most in the film. it actually goes back in time! TFA has the scene where she arrives, walked up to Luke, and hands him the lightsaber. TLJ actually starts with her walking up to Luke again and presenting the lightsaber in a different way. they actually went back in time and remade a scene one movie later! i imagine watching both back to back is an awkward experience.
 
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Airola

Airola

Member
#Phonepunk# said:
basically out and out admitting that Snoke was a nothing character and killing him does nothing to the overall story.

it feels like these filmmakers are almost trying to make you not care what happens in any of these movies.
Click to expand...

One thing I thought was great in The Last Jedi was how Snoke was killed. It was really refreshing to see a big baddie treated like that. It was very good for Kylo as a character. Imagine watching a mafia film where they set up some character as the head of the mafia. People would except him to live for the whole movie, or at least until the end of the film where he might be killed. Imagine some other character who is supposed to be working for the head mafia guy suddenly killing him off. There is this nice sense of anarchy. It's the alpha wolf being beaten by one of the lesser wolves by taking advantage of his expectations of him staying in the lead no matter what, but suddenly one of the lesser ones says "fuck it" and becomes the one to fear.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
yeah but the sense of anarchy doesn't ring true bc the new bad guys are falling on their face cartoons. there was never any order to disrupt. a mafia film shows us bad guys that violently murder and silence people. they are taken seriously as dangerous antagonists. the ST, not so much.

this is what happens when you open your movie with a Yo Mama joke wasting the villain's time and entirely neutering them as a danger. when the "big twist" ultimately happens, and it just amounts to another spat between Hux and Ren, two losers who are constantly fucking up anyways, it's a big who cares. tbh i did think Snoke's death was cool but I thought Rey was the killer, as the saber goes into her hand. if anything it just showed she can be the best at Star Wars. don't really see much depth to Kylo, it is not as if he is going to stop moping or lashing out in violent tantrums.
 
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G

gatti-man

Member
Nymphae said:
Hard to throw a plan off track when there wasn't one.




That is such a joke, so regardless of what Johnson did, they had a plan to set up Snoke as a fake villain and bring Palpatine back in the third part? And Johnson just randomly killing off the character with no fanfare fits right into the plan? How does this make anything better even if this is true?
Click to expand...
Snoke* was hardly in 7. Why do people care so much about a non character? Seriously.
 
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Fbh

Fbh

Gold Member
Lol, sure.

To be fair though, I get it, what is he supposed to say?
They want to sell this new movie as the epic conclusion of the trilogy, not as "we try to salvage this shit, please be excited"
 
Caffeine

Caffeine

Member
gatti-man said:
Snoke* was hardly in 7. Why do people care so much about a non character? Seriously.
Click to expand...
its more his presence. big bad guy after the emperor, turned ben through influence unspoken, wears rich clothes, has a gigantic army, can use force lightning, can use the force at long distances, is apparently pure darkness. is really old, has a lightsaber wound in his head, and a disfigured body.
the fans are basically like who the fuck is this guy, where the hell was he during PT and OT.
 
pel1300

pel1300

Member
#Phonepunk# said:
i think it's like Kylo's line "You have no place in this story". it's this meta bullshit. what "story?" what the hell is he talking about? it's a bad faith reframing of a good idea. when Rey starts out she wants to know about her parents, this is a pretty normal thing for anyone to understand. by TLJ, it's wiped away, replaced with some vague chosen one commentary. "Rey wants someone to show her her 'place' in all this?" All this what? what the fuck is "this"? the second film starts and our lead character needs someone to show them their place? sounds like a lack of motivation. that's a writer's problem. characters talking like they are addressing the writers instead of each other. this is why the new films fail, they constantly take you out of the movie, they are too self conscious of the audience as consumers. this is why the PT looks even better in their light, Lucas made the movies he wanted to make and if the audience hated them well tough shit.
Click to expand...

Did you not like this line:

"The mighty Kylo Ren. When I found you...ahem I mean him, I saw what all masters live to see: Raw, untamed power... and beyond that, something truly special. The potential of your bloodline. A new Vader. Now, I fear I was mistaken"

I hated that scene. This was NOT what was set up in TFA: Snoke is unsure if Kylo Ren is loyal and dark enough to kill his own father. Kylo passes the test. Snoke then says ok it's time to complete his training.

And then: "I was wrong, you suck. Take off that stupid helmet...even though I have all the other knights of Ren wearing similar helmets"

Don't get me started on "A New Vader"......stuch a dumb line. Way to reinforce fan complaints of Kylo Ren feeling like a Vader copycat.

Finn: They hate that ship! Wahoo!!

Stop talking to us Finn, you have a movie to act in!!! Also why the hell would TFO "hate" the Falcon?

Poe: She did it!!!

Uh, how does Poe know a woman is piloting the Falcon?




You have no place in this story is one of the dumbest lines in the movie. I thought Kylo was talking to the fans.

Rey saying they were nobody was just as stupid. Who talks like that? God I hated that scene. Don't get me started on how egotistical or arrogant Rey comes across "OH NO my parents were not special legends noooooooooooooo!!!"

TLJ is the most narcissistic and selfish piece of filmmaking in the sci-fi adventure franchise I've ever seen. I think part of it is Rian Johnson having the level of empathy of a little kid - meaning he isn't lacking in empathy - but he's like a kid who hasn't been taught properly by his parents to think about others besides himself.
 
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Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
Who the fuck is he hoping to convince? It's well known that there was never a plan in the first place, just a bunch of loose threads by his own admission, and no intervention on his part when he read Johnsons script.

Abrams entire shtick is 'Mystery Box' coupled with 'remix with a twist'. By far the worst candidate to hand over your new trilogy to if you were hoping for something original and unique. Sadly the Box Office receipts for TFA as a result of all the fanboys jizzing their money pants at 'Moar Star Warz!!!' uncritically means there is little in the way of mainstream discourse about just how godawful TFA was as far as sequels go.
 
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