J.J. Abrams Says Rian Johnson ‘Didn’t Derail’ the ‘Star Wars’ Story in ‘Last Jedi’

The Last Jedi honestly left me disgusted with the way they handled Luke Skywalker. They've ruined that fucking franchise now with killing off Solo and Skywalker, so I don't know how much worse it can get.
 
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PrCat88 said:
Colin Trevorrow might suggest otherwise if he left over "creative decisions".
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Mark Hamill loved what Colin Trevorrow had planned for Luke Skywalker in Ep IX.

Connect the dots. Trevorrow wanted to treat the character of Luke similarly to how he treated the T-Rex in Jurassic World. Colin wanted Luke alive in IX.

Mark Hamill approved and said "We were on the same page". A far cry from "I hate everything you've done with my character" and "I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of my character and how you use him"

Kathleen Kennedy backed Rian Johnson because she liked the idea of getting Luke out of the way. She thought Rey would become super popular and that girls all over the world would be buying Rey action figures in droves for years to come.

She was so wrong.

This twitter exchange between Colin and Mark Hamill is gold and triggers the TLJ defense force every time:





Such an obvious stealth burn at Rian Johnson.
 
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If a two hour and twenty minute film, that "upended" the trilogy, subverted expectations, and killed one the series' main stay characters, didn't really do anything to the story such that JJ and co are proceeding with the story that existed prior to the upending and subverting... then the two and two minute film is pointless. Which is worse than just a bad film. It's a film that the film makers are ignoring.
 
Hado said:
No, he destroyed it by flying a ship in hyperspace into it.
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Hey, I'd forgotten about that (as there is so much wrong with TLJ). How can they have any kind of space battle now. All those Star Destroyers... just fly an x-wing into one in the middle and take them all out. New Death Star? Do the same with a slightly bigger ship. Rian Johnson fucked every future space battle in Star Wars :D.
 
Apexhell said:
Now hold on a fucking second because this isn't just about snoke. force awakens opens up 25 questions and the last jedi which is essentially a follow up part 2 film since it starts off within the final scenes of force awakens lightsaber cuts all those questions in half. Halting them before they actually go anywhere. In fact the whole film pretty much ends at a dead end, the resistance is diminished, the first order is diminished, the new republic was obliterated, the galaxy doesnt give a fuck, somehow broom boy knows that skywalker stood up to the first orders reenactment of the battle of hoth on crait.

the movie doesn't move anything forward, all we got was rey got some how to jedi for dummies books, kylo turning scenes expanded upon. and then its basically left open a galaxy in fucking shambles on both sides about to get obliterated by over 200 star destroyers with ion cannons. and the emperor has been chilling as a consciousness or something for 35 years.
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Its bizarre. For a middle chapter of a trilogy to basically deal with (I use the phrase very loosely) every plot thread from part one and run the narrative into a complete dead end. Even the ending shot of TLJ was more a 3rd part final scene.
 
I mean, its a poor choice to bring Palpatine back, however, he did seduce Anakin with brabling of becoming immortal, so maybe they planned to expand on that thought all along. Or not and they have no clue what they are doing.
 
The sad part is that Disney management is clueless enough to just look at the numbers and see TFA profits > TLJ profits, so brought back Abrams solely because of that. Instead of realizing that TFA made its money due to being the first SW film in 10 years. They ruined any hype they originally had.
 
Kamina said:
I mean, its a poor choice to bring Palpatine back, however, he did seduce Anakin with brabling of becoming immortal, so maybe they planned to expand on that thought all along. Or not and they have no clue what they are doing.
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every sith lords true goal is the search for immortality to never lose power, except Anikan as he was vader for that 19 year gap he was searching for a way to bring padme back to life.
 
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My take is Rey is somehow born from the force just like anakin, she is the skywalker because she is female anakin. Turns bad. Kylo turns good, probably dies.

Palpatine learnt the trick to cheat death from Darth plagues the wise and he is aware about who Rey is.

Luke skywalker comes back and dies heroically...please?

The other characters do stuff



The end
 
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Doom85 said:
Why do you want him to come back and just do the same thing again?
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Luke says to Rey "what do you want me to do, run in there with a laser sword?"

Yea. Do what obiwan did when he was old, go on an adventure to save the day like in a Star Wars movie.

Don't just sit there, project yourself across space to buy some time, then disappear.

It's really lame for Luke Skywalker to be portrayed in the way he was.

Incredibly disappointing.
 
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I thought it was heroic, sacrificing his life to let other people have the chance to escape. And hell, just dodging Kylo's swings like that was sick, reminded me of Samurai Champloo where they would often not even block with their swords but dodge it altogether.

I mean, Obi-Wan could have easily kept fighting Vader but chose to sacrifice himself because he believed his time had come and that the future would be safe in the hands of the next generation. I saw Luke's sacrifice in the exact same way.
 
the Luke stuff was very embarrassing. reading the behind the scenes it is clear the writers were not well equipped for the job. Rian just wasted a solid hour and a half of my life saying "I don't care about Luke" over and over and making the entire thing be about Luke, just to say "Oh you wanted him to save the day did you?" like you fucking asshole you are the one writing this shitty movie. if you couldn't come up with a plot past "Luke does everything" that's on your shitty lack of imagination.

ROTJ already dealt with Luke overpowering the story, he himself is like "I'm endangering the mission" yet George made it work. JJ and RJ are just lazy, shitty writers.
 
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I ranted about Star Wars so much today to my family after thinking a lot recently about how last Jedi really dropped the ball so hard.

Eventually I had to put on return of the Jedi to calm down.
 
Still amazed at how such a loved property was handled in this way. The effects, the visual style is all great but the basic foundation, the storyline, the threads that connect it to the previous movies and help drive it forward, connecting a new trilogy together was somehow an afterthought. Like, what in the actual fuck? It's like some kind of group, hand off art project. JJ makes a model that looks a little too much like the one George made. He passes it off to Rian who smashes it (permanently breaking some of the pieces) and draws dicks all over it with permanent marker; Trevorrow protests at this overall idea, is expelled from class, and the mess with dicks on it is then given to back to JJ.
 
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Snoke is just Palp 2 so they should say that he was just a failed Palp clone.
Rey can be a female Palp clone too.

Palp loved a clone, as established by the cinematic masterpiece, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. It would make sense that he'd be cloning all kinds of weird shit.

No way those long necked freaks on Kamino were only cloning Jango Fett trooper clones, I'm sure Palp had that facility making clones of himself as well.
 
BagofFeralCats said:
Still amazed at how such a loved property was handled in this way. The effects, the visual style is all great
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The Last Jedi didn't even have above average special effects, i.e. the Casino planet stampede for example was very digital & looked wrong. By & large there was nothing that screamed "wow" in the effects or anything which made the viewer think "that must have cost a fortune to make".
 
Doom85 said:
I thought it was heroic, sacrificing his life to let other people have the chance to escape. And hell, just dodging Kylo's swings like that was sick, reminded me of Samurai Champloo where they would often not even block with their swords but dodge it altogether.

I mean, Obi-Wan could have easily kept fighting Vader but chose to sacrifice himself because he believed his time had come and that the future would be safe in the hands of the next generation. I saw Luke's sacrifice in the exact same way.
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I'll admit I'm one of those people who absolutely adored the lightsaber fighting in the prequels. Everything about the way they were choreographed, and the sounds omg I love it so much.

I reaaalllllyy wanted to see Luke skywalker fight Kylo with lightsabers, I mean there wasn't an actual lightsaber fight in the movie which is unforgivable.

I'm going to have to put on return of the Jedi again to calm down this hurts man.
 
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Doom85 said:
I thought it was heroic, sacrificing his life to let other people have the chance to escape. And hell, just dodging Kylo's swings like that was sick, reminded me of Samurai Champloo where they would often not even block with their swords but dodge it altogether.

I mean, Obi-Wan could have easily kept fighting Vader but chose to sacrifice himself because he believed his time had come and that the future would be safe in the hands of the next generation. I saw Luke's sacrifice in the exact same way.
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ye a decent scene, even with Kylo becoming supreme leader, Luke shows up and still get on my level kid's him. Like you still ain't shit Ben see ya around.
 
Apexhell said:
outside of porg plushies which sold like crack to some people, the actual toys vanished really fast from store sections.
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Yeah, the amount of finn and rose tico's ive seen at home bargains is funny. Still, it makes money somehow eh
 
"This trilogy completes the Skywalker saga"
"Rian's movie is great"
"We're so impressed Rian definitely has his own trilogy"
"The story is fine, no harm done"
"Don't worry this is all part of a masterplan"

Believe nothing these headless chickens say. They are literally throwing feces at a dart board at this point.
 
You only have to read interviews with Rian from two years ago to see it's all bullshit. "This was all planned out" is as big a retcon as Kylo putting the helmet back together. He was making lists of who all her possible parents could be in order to write his film.

I mean unless he's lying about that and he knew all along and his movie was just a giant red herring. Which wouldn't be any better tbh
 
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I don't care when or how Snoke inevtiably dies. But I do care about where the hell he came from in the first place. TROS better deliver on that front, even if it is just one throwaway line by Sheev's force ghost.
 
Doom85 said:
I thought it was heroic, sacrificing his life to let other people have the chance to escape. And hell, just dodging Kylo's swings like that was sick, reminded me of Samurai Champloo where they would often not even block with their swords but dodge it altogether.

I mean, Obi-Wan could have easily kept fighting Vader but chose to sacrifice himself because he believed his time had come and that the future would be safe in the hands of the next generation. I saw Luke's sacrifice in the exact same way.
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Luke did not sacrifice his life. He did the astral projection thing and then died because that's what he wanted to do on his island in the first place, but couldn't because his burdens dragged him down and shackled him to the mortal realm. After Krait, he realized that all will be fine without him thanks to Rey and stuff, and therefore, those burdens were lifted and he could go in peace, which he did as he wanted to do for years.

Had he actually sacrificed his life to buy the resistance time, there would have been no need for the astral projection plottwist. Luke would have shown up on Krait to be killed by Kylo, much like Ben Kenobi.
 
Gifmaker said:
Luke did not sacrifice his life. He did the astral projection thing and then died because that's what he wanted to do on his island in the first place, but couldn't because his burdens dragged him down and shackled him to the mortal realm. After Krait, he realized that all will be fine without him thanks to Rey and stuff, and therefore, those burdens were lifted and he could go in peace, which he did as he wanted to do for years.

Had he actually sacrificed his life to buy the resistance time, there would have been no need for the astral projection plottwist. Luke would have shown up on Krait to be killed by Kylo, much like Ben Kenobi.
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No, using the projection cost him his life. When Kylo sees Rey (not knowing why since Snoke reveals later that he set it up), he says, "you are not doing this. The effort would kill you" indicating it's a technique that costs the user their life (and Luke managed to use it for quite a few minutes, like a fucking boss).

Yoda passed away the way he did because he was apparently pretty damn old for his species. But Luke wasn't, dude was only 53. There's no evidence to suggest the Force claims people when their purpose is done or something like that. Yoda made it clear that all life eventually dies, so he clearly meant he was about to die due to age not because he had finished training Luke to the point he could.
 
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Gifmaker said:
After Krait, he realized that all will be fine without him thanks to Rey and stuff, and therefore, those burdens were lifted and he could go in peace, which he did as he wanted to do for years.
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I get that this is the desired reading but it doesn't work for me. He dies antagonizing his nephew into eternal war. He does while they are shooting a laser at the last 20 people in the Resistance, before Leia has even gotten to safety. Kylo was straight up trying to kill his mom, Luke just peaces out in the middle of it

Honestly the whole "Luke's burdens were finally lifted" thing rings hollow to me. They weren't at all! Dude dies right as his nephew screams at him across the galaxy. Doesn't seem conducive to a peaceful death in any way.

What's more, I don't get how he learned anything from his failure. His failure was in pre judging Kylo, the root event at the crux of his entire arc is the night he threatened his nephew's life, how that caused him to fall, and to suggest that he overcomes this failure by showing up and threatening him again, I dunno, seems very dumb to me. He failed him by making an enemy out of him yet he is redeemed by doubling down on that? Huh?

Tbh all the supposed "character arcs" in the last film are hamfisted and hollow for me
 
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Reading the spoilers I believe that JJ did set up a lot of what was in the trailers, but RJ just said fuck it, so he is wrong about the RJ part. RJ did screw it up.

Basically Kylo should of face turned in TLJ, and the big reveal in ROS should of happend at the end of TLJ to mirror ESB. Then there would be a hook to watch the 3rd film. The Emperor could of been behind snoke, remember in TFA he was this giant hologram for some reason. Emperor turns on the First Order with his own forces of Star Destroyers, so the FO recluctntly joins with the resistence to take out the empire/Emperor/Sith for the final time, while Rey deals with a revelation about her past that causes her to question her place in the Jedi order.
 
#Phonepunk# said:
I get that this is the desired reading but it doesn't work for me. He dies antagonizing his nephew into eternal war. He does while they are shooting a laser at the last 20 people in the Resistance, before Leia has even gotten to safety. Kylo was straight up trying to kill his mom, Luke just peaces out in the middle of it

Honestly the whole "Luke's burdens were finally lifted" thing rings hollow to me. They weren't at all! Dude dies right as his nephew screams at him across the galaxy. Doesn't seem conducive to a peaceful death in any way.

What's more, I don't get how he learned anything from his failure. His failure was in pre judging Kylo, the root event at the crux of his entire arc is the night he threatened his nephew's life, how that caused him to fall, and to suggest that he overcomes this failure by showing up and threatening him again, I dunno, seems very dumb to me. He failed him by making an enemy out of him yet he is redeemed by doubling down on that? Huh?

Tbh all the supposed "character arcs" in the last film are hamfisted and hollow for me
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Well, beyond the fact that I already said why Luke didn't die willingly but rather the technique costs the user their life, what do you mean "before Leia got to safety"? By the time the FO enter the base, the Resistance is long gone, hence why Kylo is just looking slowly through everything as Hux glares at him.

Also, Rey FLAT OUT SAYS, "you didn't fail Kylo. Kylo failed you." after learning the fully story of what happened that night. But since apparently that needs to be elaborated on, okay so Kylo wakes up and it looks like to him Luke is about to kill him since he doesn't know Luke stopped himself. And how does that make Luke responsible for Kylo now being part of a military that murders billions of innocent people? That moment should have only made Kylo hate Luke, it's still his choice to fall to the dark side. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no one is forced into one side or the other even if it tempts them. ANH had this exchange - Luke: So it controls your actions? Obi-Wan: Partially, but it also obeys your commands. The Force can guide you when you let it, but you ultimately choose where it takes you. Otherwise the idea that a character would need to redeem themselves makes no sense, why the need for a redemption if they didn't have a choice in the matter to begin with?

This is why Leia stops Luke from elaborating on what happened between Kylo and him. She knows Luke must have made some sort of mistake but it doesn't matter, she still cares about Luke and also knows that Kylo still made his own choice to do all this. Luke is antagonizing Kylo in their fight because he needs to make sure Kylo doesn't realize it's a far more strategic move to have the FO move in to get the Resistance already instead of hanging back while Kylo wastes time fighting one guy. This wasn't about possibly redeeming Kylo, he made his choices in life and no one can help him anymore. He even had a chance after helping Rey against Snoke and he still turned it down, so at this point if he wants to redeem himself he has to do it himself. This is why as the Resistance is escaping and Rey and Kylo see each other one last time through the Force connection Rey gives him a disapproving look, she gave him a chance to change and he fucked up. Anyone who sees Kylo as a victim in all this is grossly misunderstanding what's happening. If anything, it shows the irony in Kylo telling Rey to move on from her past. She does so, and yet he chooses to hold on to his anger and ends up all alone.
 
Richard Packer said:
Fuck what's was the breakdown? That's a lot of food.
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Not anymore. Hell, 3 Dorito Tacos cost $8, so he got like 6 tacos, some cinnamon twists, and a drink.

On topic, I'm pretty sure Snoke is just going to end of being a vessel for Palpatine anyway, and that clone would have to die for him to move into a better vessel anyway.

Apart from Super Leia, and the whole casino bit, oh, and the space chase, oh, and Ren acting like a baby, oh, and Luke (who couldn't even kill his evil father believing that there was good in everyone) about to murder his nephew, oh, and the entire opening worth the conversation between Hux and Poe, oh, and Phasma's stupid death, TLJ wasn't a bad movie.
 
Leia using the force makes complete sense in the sequels it was the way they did it that sucked.

Keep the same scene if you must, but have someone else get blown into space. Everyone panics, Leia holds her hand out, the force theme starts to swell and the person starts to float back to safety.

Most people don't even realise what just happened but those that do are just looking in awe at Leia.

Instead everyone laughed at her and called her Mary poppins. :(
 
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Weilthain said:
Leia using the force makes complete sense in the sequels it was the way they did it that sucked.

Keep the same scene if you must, but have someone else get blown into space. Everyone panics, Leia holds her hand out, the force theme starts to swell and the person starts to float back to safety.

Most people don't even realise what just happened but those that do are just looking in awe at Leia.

Instead everyone laughed at her and called her Mary poppins. :(
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This was one of the few scenes I thought was great and I did something kinda new. But whenever I think of her getting blown out I also think of an hour later a giant spaceship crashes through the ship where Rey Kylo Finn and Rose are on, destroying the whole fleet, yet not one of them get sucked out into space. Characters have godlike plot armor until they don't.
 
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Weilthain said:
Leia using the force makes complete sense in the sequels it was the way they did it that sucked.

Keep the same scene if you must, but have someone else get blown into space. Everyone panics, Leia holds her hand out, the force theme starts to swell and the person starts to float back to safety.

Most people don't even realise what just happened but those that do are just looking in awe at Leia.

Instead everyone laughed at her and called her Mary poppins. :(
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they should have went the xmen 2 route when jean used her powers to stop rockets, had kylo conflicted but then shoot anyway have Leia stick out her hand on the bridge and stop the rockets with the force saving admiral ackbar.
 
#Phonepunk# said:
This was one of the few scenes I thought was great and I did something kinda new. But whenever I think of her getting blown out I also think of an hour later a giant spaceship crashes through the ship where Rey Kylo Finn and Rose are on, destroying the whole fleet, yet not one of them get sucked out into space. Characters have godlike plot armor until they don't.
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When Leia Mary Poppins herself to the door she opens it and yet no one got sucked out into the vacuum of space right behind her.
 
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