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[Aiii]

Listen, you guys make solid points on Cena, hell, every one of the people posting in this thread has made a similar Cena rant at some point or another.

What I personally do is tune out Cena, I put him into a different universe. There's the proper WWE Universe and the Cena Universe. The only problems arise whit the wrestlers that are taken out of the WWE Universe and put into the Cenaverse. In most cases though, they manage to overcome the Cenaverse and return to being fun when they travel back to the WWE Universe.

In the past year only Zack Ryder never recovered from his visit to the Cenaverse.

Hell, if nobody ranted on Cena's promo on Monday I wouldn't even have known about it since I skipped over it. :lol

 

[Professor Beef]

I like Punk. However I think Punk's on the verge of selling out.

And fuck John Cena.

He already has "sold out." I never understood why that was always perceived as a negative.

 

[Lambda Pie]

something that bother me to the extreme:

Cesaro vs Orton, just saw it.

here you have the champion heel Cesaro, in need for some heat, fighting a top face Orton, and the fuckin special ref Miz is the face in a feud with the heel.

predictably, the face ref screws the heel, who loses to the top face without losing the title (does nothing for the top face) and the face special ref attacks the heel after the match (does nothing to bring heat for the heel, face special ref comes off as an asshole who attacks a man after he got beaten).

this is... shit. i have no other words. dubious refs are reserved to screw the faces, to let the heels get aways with wins they don't deserve and build heat.

same thing with Rio vs Show at the RR. the tape is heel tactics 101. it's the heel that should tape the feet of the face and then gloat to the audience in a chorus of booos.

and this is why the WWE product is jarring, every face acts like this. it's insane.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

it's like WCW 2000 without the swerves. the same short shitty matches, Miz is the new Double J, etc.

I just wish they'd scale back production values 25%, get Raw back to 2 hours, and Heyman book the crap out of it so that every segment feels like the end of the world. It's all way too safe, shiny, and corporate. I don't even mean Attitude Era content, just give the shows a spark of energy.

Take the dance contest on Raw for instance. How did that not end with Tensai and Brodus destroying the ring? Tensai actually danced in negligee. Tensai, who a year ago was mowing fools down in Japan, danced on live TV in negligee and nobody got killed for it. You serious?

 

[Lambda Pie]

I just wish they'd scale back production values 25%, get Raw back to 2 hours, and Heyman book the crap out of it so that every segment feels like the end of the world. It's all way too safe, shiny, and corporate. I don't even mean Attitude Era content, just give the shows a spark of energy.

Take the dance contest on Raw for instance. How did that not end with Tensai and Brodus destroying the ring? Tensai actually danced in negligee. Tensai, who a year ago was mowing fools down in Japan, danced on live TV in negligee and nobody got killed for it. You serious?

in my ideal world, Brodus and Tensai are a tag team. just 2 gigantic guys wrecking shit. no silly gimmicks, just 2 guys who enjoy hurting people. remember when that was enough?

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I just wish they'd scale back production values 25%, get Raw back to 2 hours, and Heyman book the crap out of it so that every segment feels like the end of the world. It's all way too safe, shiny, and corporate. I don't even mean Attitude Era content, just give the shows a spark of energy.

That's my major issue. Even though it's Live, everything feels so staged and canned. They always want the 'perfect' shot, to the point where it looks like wrestlers re-do a spot so they can get the shot (think Ryback, Cena & Punk arguing over the title a few months back). The HD glossy feel takes away something too.

I liked the gritty 3 camera crew they had during the 90s. You had the hard cam, and then the 2 ring side guys who you'd see frantically trying to keep up with the action. You got the impression they didn't know 100% where the action was going to go or what spots were next. Whereas now the cameramen are ready and I wouldn't be surprised if they knew what spots were going to happen as they always seem to be at the right place at the right time.

And then damn zooming in and out on action shots, along with the shaking of the camera... please. It was shit in TNA, but it's awful in WWE. You shouldn't have to use camera tricks to get across how hard hitting wrestling moves are. If you're doing that then your product must be really tame.

 

[Kccitystar]

That's my major issue. Even though it's Live, everything feels so staged and canned. They always want the 'perfect' shot, to the point where it looks like wrestlers re-do a spot so they can get the shot (think Ryback, Cena & Punk arguing over the title a few months back). The HD glossy feel takes away something too.

I liked the gritty 3 camera crew they had during the 90s. You had the hard cam, and then the 2 ring side guys who you'd see frantically trying to keep up with the action. You got the impression they didn't know 100% where the action was going to go or what spots were next. Whereas now the cameramen are ready and I wouldn't be surprised if they knew what spots were going to happen as they always seem to be at the right place at the right time.

And then damn zooming in and out on action shots, along with the shaking of the camera... please. It was shit in TNA, but it's awful in WWE. You shouldn't have to use camera tricks to get across how hard hitting wrestling moves are. If you're doing that then your product must be really tame.

One thing that has bugged me in recent years has been, well, I don't know how to explain this, but the natural "flow" of dialogue when wrestlers talk in promos or in-ring segments. A lot of it feels cookie cutter, like certain sentences are spaced out a certain way to fill time.

If you watch the WWE backstage videos and then see clips of in-ring segments/promos, I think you'll understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Data West]

It's Owenesday, mother fuckers!

I'm reposting this.

I am going to post one of my favorite matches of all time and my favorite cage match of all time. I highly recommend you guys watch it if you've never seen it before. I'm not posting it because I'm an Owen mark or because tomorrow's Owenesday. I legit believe it's one of the best matches of all time and one of the best examples of storytelling.

Bret Hart vs Owen Hart Summerslam 1994 for the WWF Championship

Some people like to give Bret crap about his skills on the mic. While he was never as good as Shawn or his brother when it came to that, Bret is so good at setting up a match and telling a story throughout it. I mean, one of the best matches of that era was Bret vs Diesel, so that should speak volumes. This match was amazing at the time because there was so much drama built up around it. All Bret really was back then was the good guy who could wrestle well. You cheered for him because he was exciting, but you never really got emotionally invested in him. Enter the Owen feud. Owen was so different from the rest of the Harts and this feud really accentuated it. Owen beat Bret clean at Wrestlemania and it made the feud even more heated(also a great match but on a 'performance' level than story telling).

It was the first time I can recall being really into a Bret Hart match for the title rather than just wanting to watch Bret do awesome moves to dudes. Everything about it is just so perfect. The cage match is the ultimate match for the babyface to get his revenge, and Owen had been hounding Bret for months since Survivor Series. Originally, Bret wouldn't fight him because he was his brother(kind of like Undertaker/Kane in the Attitude era), but that just made Owen put him on blast even more. So they finally have the match. The crowd is hot because of how much Owen has made a mockery of their hero at the time, the WWF champion. He kicked his leg out, attacked him at Survivor Series, beat him at Wrestlemania, and so on. The best part about this match is you are taking two very technical wrestlers and seeing them slowly degrade into beating the hell out of each other. You can see Bret trying to have a wrestling match until things are just so exhaustive and heated that they're on the turnbuckle slugging each other back and forth. You get shots of Stu Hart looking on. Some of the selling is so good in this. Owen pulls Bret off the cage and his leg hits the rope and he sells it like it just snapped. Owen's so exhausted halfway through when he does a irish whip, he falls over. He throws Bret off the cage and instead of doing some spot, Owen's so exhausted that he collapses back into the ring.

Some of the storytelling is so well done. Bret and Owen spend a solid 3 minutes trying to crawl through the cage door. Back and forth. It's not like most cage matches now where only the heel can leave through the door. You see stuff like Owen clinging to the steps when Bret has his foot instead of the magical 'You give up all hope and I pull you back in and do a big spot.' Instead, Bret tries to run for the ropes.

It's so, so, so good.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

It's Owenesday, mother fuckers!

I'm reposting this.

That's my favourite ever match and feud

 

[Dave Meltzer]

punk's best look

cool hair and best shirt

Ew.

His slicked back hair was disgusting. He looks like a straight up bad ass now. Albeit a bad ass who looks really tired and coked out.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Kyoufu ruined Punk for all of us.

Remember when Kyoufu was hinging on the Rock's return to save the show only to complain about The Rock on his very first night back? good times.

The SD spoilers have one point of interest.

Spoiler

RETURN OF SWAGS! hopefully he takes Khali's chamber spot in upcoming weeks because who the fuck wants Khali in that match, lets go Swaggie!

Hang on Barrett isn't in the chamber, this is bullshit, he's going to drop the IC title to Bo Dallas or something at this rate.

 

[strobogo]

it's like WCW 2000 without the swerves. the same short shitty matches, Miz is the new Double J, etc.

It's not. WWE in 2012 is more boring than WCW 2000, but it is unquestionably better. WCW 2000 was less boring not because it was more interesting or entertaining, but because it was such a train wreck and you can't believe how stupid and terrible it is. WWE still has significant chunk of awesome wrestling every week even if it is spread out over 12 shows. By probably 1999 at the earliest, but definitely into 2000, it felt like WCW hated the idea of having good wrestling on shows. There were no good matches for the sake of good matches by this point. That's what made WCW so awesome in 1991-1993 and 1996-1998. Just a bunch of dudes told to go out there and have a good match.

That still happens in WWE. It might not happen on Raw too often (unless Claudio is wrestling), it still happens all the time on NXT, Superstars, Main Event, and Smackdown. Matches for the sake of matches instead of matches for the sake of angles, which is everything in WCW 2000. Long gone were the days of sending the cruisers out for 10 minutes to be awesome with no angles whatsoever. The biggest bummer is that WCW had quite a few guys that could really go (Rey, Juvi, Kidman, Booker, Sting when he wanted, Lance, Awesome, Steiner when he wanted, the Jung Dragons, Shane and Shannon, Chavo, Kanyon), but every match was just a glorified angle and would always end in some kind of shenanigans. They'd never get time to get going and then would end in cheating, weapons, or copious interference even when there was a no interference rule instituted.

And Miz is definitely way worse than Double J. I'm really not a fan at all of Slapnut-King of the Mountain era Jarrett, but at least he knew the basics of wrestling and wasn't embarrassing. He was always a very capable guy just in a spot where he didn't belong. Miz has been getting worse and worse the longer he's been in wrestling. Both personality and in the ring

 

[Toki767]

It's not. WWE in 2012 is more boring than WCW 2000, but it is unquestionably better. WCW 2000 was less boring not because it was more interesting or entertaining, but because it was such a train wreck and you can't believe how stupid and terrible it is. WWE still has significant chunk of awesome wrestling every week even if it is spread out over 12 shows. By probably 1999 at the earliest, but definitely into 2000, it felt like WCW hated the idea of having good wrestling on shows. There were no good matches for the sake of good matches by this point. That's what made WCW so awesome in 1991-1993 and 1996-1998. Just a bunch of dudes told to go out there and have a good match.

Basically the Russo effect lol

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Q: Who was the first 'contracted' WCW star to appear at Madison Square Garden and win a WWF Title?

 

[Aiii]

Flair right? His contract never ended, but he had a dispute and went to WWF?

 

[McNei1y]

Was this when Cena attacked Ziggler when he tried to cash it in?

lol

Damn, that was some horseshit. He had no business stopping him.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Flair right? His contract never ended, but he had a dispute and went to WWF?

Wasn't won at Madison Square Garden, but nice spot!

 

[strobogo]

Probably LOD.


EDIT: Trick question, Mike Awesome won the Hardcore Championship in MSG.

 

[Jamie OD]

One thing that has bugged me in recent years has been, well, I don't know how to explain this, but the natural "flow" of dialogue when wrestlers talk in promos or in-ring segments. A lot of it feels cookie cutter, like certain sentences are spaced out a certain way to fill time.

If you watch the WWE backstage videos and then see clips of in-ring segments/promos, I think you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Most of the promos have the wrestler or personality pause every couple of words for dramatic effect. The fans notice this which is why we still get the "What?" chants. It really does come off as being unnatural. Heck we had Vickie and John Laurinitus as heel GMs partly because their promos are so bad.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

EDIT: Trick question, Mike Awesome won the Hardcore Championship in MSG.

Correct!

'Contracted' was the key.

 

[Kyoufu]

To be fair I thought Rock was going to put Punk over.

Not this.

But even with Twinkie Tits, Cookie Puss etc I'd rather see Rock in the main event than Cena.

As for tag division, there is no hope. Lumping singles guys in a team does not work.

 

[Nebula]

If you jump onto the top rope because you're in a hurry to pull off that drop while your opponent is down and slip it's a hell of alot more believable then when your opponent is laying still in position for 3 minutes while you position your feet and do a pose and point the audience because that's what you always do.

Yeah when CM Punk went for a moonsault on Cena at NoC I didn't think botch at all, the first thing that went through my mind was desperation. It made it look like CM Punk was getting so desperate that he resorted to moves he didn't usually do.

 

[Entropia]

Smackdown spoiler!

Spoiler

Am I the only one excited that Swagger is back?! But why didn't he come back in the Royal Rumble?

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Tag team wrestling is a waste of time. It's only good for generic spotfest TLC/ladder matches.

 

[Nocturnowl]

To be fair I thought Rock was going to put Punk over.

Not this.

Twice in a lifetime was inevitable though!

Smackdown spoiler!

Spoiler

Am I the only one excited that Swagger is back?! But why didn't he come back in the Royal Rumble?

I'm also excited for reasons i'm unsure of.

 

[strobogo]

Bros, I'm feeling manly as fuck right now. I fixed the broken console in my car by using power tools and wrenches, I lubed up all the squeaking doors and cabinets in the house that needed it, I think I might have fixed my storm door that slams itself shut on your and tries to break your ankles like a cuntttttt, and I've done 200 of my 350 kettlebell swings for the day. It's 8 AM.







I need a job

 

[KissVibes]

Smackdown spoiler!

Spoiler

Am I the only one excited that Swagger is back?! But why didn't he come back in the Royal Rumble?

I'm excited because it sounds like he looked good in his match.

Spoiler

If he ditched his stupid ring gear and keeps talking to a minimum (unless he dramatically improved) he should do pretty good as a Superstar that sticks to wrestling moves and not overly flash shit. Would be a good niche.

Additional note about Smackdown:

Spoiler

"Dolph Ziggler says he’s not interested in the Elimation Chamber match as he has a guaranteed shot." WELP. SOUNDS LIKE SHEAMAS OR ORTON IS WINNING EC AND HEADING TO WRESTLEMANIA.

If Ziggler doesn't cash it in by next MitB he loses it, right? Or can they keep it going and have him win two contacts as some sick joke where one PPV he spends all night cashing them in until at the very end of the show he wins it, then loses it in a Dark Match after it goes off air?

 

[Aiii]

Spoiler

Saw Swagger, incl. new haircut at the Smackdown House Show back in november.

He's still Swagger.

 

[McNei1y]

Does anyone else want triple threat/fatal four way #1 contenders matches? I mean they have a lot of talent up there and their current storylines aren't leading up to any big payoff singles match.

 

[KissVibes]

Spoiler

Saw Swagger, incl. new haircut at the Smackdown House Show back in november.

He's still Swagger.

THEN BOOOOOOO.

Him and Bo Dallas can catch the first bus to TNA or something.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I'm excited because it sounds like he looked good in his match.

Spoiler

If he ditched his stupid ring gear and keeps talking to a minimum (unless he dramatically improved) he should do pretty good as a Superstar that sticks to wrestling moves and not overly flash shit. Would be a good niche.

Additional note about Smackdown:

Spoiler

"Dolph Ziggler says he’s not interested in the Elimation Chamber match as he has a guaranteed shot." WELP. SOUNDS LIKE SHEAMAS OR ORTON IS WINNING EC AND HEADING TO WRESTLEMANIA.

If Ziggler doesn't cash it in by next MitB he loses it, right? Or can they keep it going and have him win two contacts as some sick joke where one PPV he spends all night cashing them in until at the very end of the show he wins it, then loses it in a Dark Match after it goes off air?

Ziggler won't be cashing in before WM. He'll probably get it about as late as they can leave it. Gotta get Del Rio over as a true Latino Champion.

 

[Aiii]

Ziggler won't be cashing in before WM. He'll probably get it about as late as they can leave it. Gotta get Del Rio over as a true Latino Champion.

Fine by me. I'd rather have him with a 3-month run after WM than a one month rushed run now.

I am in no hurry, it's just an accessory.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I hope Big E challenges him for the briefcase and takes it off him.

 

[jmdajr]

If I could get a moment, I'd like to discus Punk's flab again
I don't see how Daniel Bryan being almost a true Vegan can be in such good shape and Punk can't. I'm sure Punk is in great cardiovascular shape, but eh... just doesn't look like he can kick's anyone's ass. He's like the Adam West of Batman and not Christian bale.

I like how in the 80s action heroes finally looked like they could kick ass. I guess the tie in is all the Steroids they took also ended up in sports/wrestling etc. (or the other way around, that whole culture is intertwined really.) Sure, that era is over but like I said, look at someone like D. Bry. You can still look pretty damn good without juicing.

In the end it doesn't matter I suppose. I already take great leaps in suspension of believe to enjoy the product,... it just be you know, nice to see some effort.

 

[Paracelsus]

If I could get a moment, I'd like to discus Punk's flab again
I don't see how Daniel Bryan being almost a true Vegan can be in such good shape and Punk can't. I'm sure Punk is in great cardiovascular shape, but eh... just doesn't look like he can kick's anyone's ass. He's like the Adam West of Batman and not Christian bale.

I like how in the 80s action heroes finally looked like they could kick ass. I guess the tie in is all the Steroids they took also ended up in sports/wrestling etc. (or the other way around, that whole culture is intertwined really.) Sure, that era is over but like I said, look at someone like D. Bry. You can still look pretty damn good without juicing.

In the end it doesn't matter I suppose. I already take great leaps in suspension of believe to enjoy the product,... it just be you know, nice to see some effort.

Punk doesn't like doing cardio.

 

[Aiii]

Everyone knows muscles = strength.

 

[Kyoufu]

Punk doesn't like doing cardio.

Punk runs marathons.

He doesn't like lifting weights. Doesn't want to risk his back according to the Q&A at comic con.

 

[jmdajr]

Everyone knows muscles = strength.

Lol. The guy is playing a character. At least look the part. I know muscles are not everything. I used to work out constantly and had pretty good muscle definition and I probbaly couldn't kick anyone's ass. But I wasn't on TV.

 

[Paracelsus]

Punk runs marathons.

He doesn't like lifting weights. Doesn't want to risk his back according to the Q&A at comic con.

His abs are choked by fat, so either he eats more than Skip Sheffield of he burns no fat by doing cardio.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Punk looks fine. Stop being mean to Punk.

 

[jmdajr]

Punk runs marathons.

He doesn't like lifting weights. Doesn't want to risk his back according to the Q&A at comic con.

Doesn't want to risk his back doing weights? Maybe it's time to get in touch with DDP.
I really miss my Yoga classes. Shit is awesome.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Punk looks fine compared to the rest of the mid-card.

 

[British Monsoon]

Talking about Punk's physique AGAIN? Come on guys, it's all about the stamina. Rock's built like a brick shithouse, but he was sucking air ten minutes into his match with Punk, while Jericho walked back in after doing nothing but touring with has band for the past few months and easily worked 45 minutes in the Rumble.

Tag team wrestling is a waste of time. It's only good for generic spotfest TLC/ladder matches.

Tag team wrestling is a lost art, especially in WWE, but that doesn't mean it's a waste of time, just that WWE have forgotten how to run a tag division.

And, hell, I can't buy that Dave Meltzer hates tag team wrestling. What about all those 5* All Japan tag matches in the 90s? Or the Toyota & Yamada vs Kansai & Ozaki feud? Or Jumbo & Tenryu vs Choshu & Yatsu? Or Hansen & Brody vs The Funks?

Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk - (AJPW 12/08/84)

 

[Kyoufu]

Punk is a skinny fatass.

 

[The Frankman]

Punk looks fine compared to the rest of the mid-card.

Kofi Kingston would bodyslam Punk to oblivion.

 

[jmdajr]

Talking about Punk's physique AGAIN? Come on guys, it's all about the stamina. Rock's built like a brick shithouse, but he was sucking air ten minutes into his match with Punk, while Jericho walked back in after doing nothing but touring with has band for the past few months and easily worked 45 minutes in the Rumble.

Maybe it's time to start Training with Jericho. At least I can see his abs.

 

[jmdajr]

Punk looks fine compared to the rest of the mid-card.

Like Brodus Clay and Tensai?

 

[Laserfrog]

Hows everybody doing? I'm eating a banana.

 

[Jamie OD]

I'm excited because it sounds like he looked good in his match.

Spoiler

If he ditched his stupid ring gear and keeps talking to a minimum (unless he dramatically improved) he should do pretty good as a Superstar that sticks to wrestling moves and not overly flash shit. Would be a good niche.

Additional note about Smackdown:

Spoiler

"Dolph Ziggler says he’s not interested in the Elimation Chamber match as he has a guaranteed shot." WELP. SOUNDS LIKE SHEAMAS OR ORTON IS WINNING EC AND HEADING TO WRESTLEMANIA.

If Ziggler doesn't cash it in by next MitB he loses it, right? Or can they keep it going and have him win two contacts as some sick joke where one PPV he spends all night cashing them in until at the very end of the show he wins it, then loses it in a Dark Match after it goes off air?

Spoiler

Ziggler has until the next MitB PPV to cash it in.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

And, hell, I can't buy that Dave Meltzer hates tag team wrestling. What about all those 5* All Japan tag matches in the 90s? Or the Toyota & Yamada vs Kansai & Ozaki feud? Or Jumbo & Tenryu vs Choshu & Yatsu? Or Hansen & Brody vs The Funks?

Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk - (AJPW 12/08/84)

It had the potential to be a good gimmick account, but it's quickly slipping away.