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[billy beane]

I remember watching some shoot interview where he tried to justify some of the stupid match stipulations he had, claiming that he did them because nobody else did before. But there's a reason why we never got a Judy Bagwell on a Pole match before him.

 

[The Fronde]

This is the huge problem with this era of WCW. Every match on Ntro and Thunder were already ridiculous stipulation matches that usually ended with multiple run ins, at least one Swerve, and a title Change every other week. People were also taking crazy bumps in dangerous spots for basically no reason. It was like ECW only high budget and not entertaining.

They basically had nothing left for the PPV. The stakes were so low. Get fired? Show up anyways. Lose the belt? Get a title shot next week. Going to lose a match? Send fifteen buddies down to the ring to give a beat down.

It also still baffles me how JJ got his push then and why oh why would you make Goldberg a heel when he finally came back?

 

[Man God]

The real inexcusable part of Vince Russo isn't even WCW. He did have a track record with WWE so it seems plausible that he could do a decent job with the company. However after that double headed failure anyone hiring him after that was absolutely crazy. His TNA run is utterly indefensible. You knew exactly what you were getting.

The contrast between WWF 2000 and WCW 2000 is day and night and I don't remember 2000 even being a particularly strong year for the company, though it's definitely at the height of its pre merger roster.

 

[strobogo]

2000 WWF was better than 1998 and 1999, at least in the ring. Great year in ring for them. But TNA had various stages of Russo booked stuff that weren't awful. Particularly right before Hogan and Eric came in. The 3 months or so before that were some of the best months of TNA ever. Russo CAN book a good wrestling show, he just needs people to keep him from going overboard with crazy shit. The theory behind a lot of his WCW makes sense, but in practice it was always taken way too far with talent that weren't good enough to make the angles work.

 

[jred2k]

Was Russo actually trying to save WCW during that period, or was he just trying to boost his own stock as much as possible while the ship was sinking. From reading these wrap-ups it seems like he either thought him being on camera was what people wanted, or he no longer gave a shit and it was just about his and Bischoff getting as much exposure as possible. Either way he seems fucking delusional. It makes me feel bad for guys like DDP and Sting that helped make WCW huge and then were stuck watching it crumble around them.

 

[Man God]

WCW was savable right up to the moment where it came out that AOL was trying to sell off WCW, which if I remember right was right around the time of the second reboot.

2000 WWF was better than 1998 and 1999, at least in the ring. Great year in ring for them. But TNA had various stages of Russo booked stuff that weren't awful. Particularly right before Hogan and Eric came in. The 3 months or so before that were some of the best months of TNA ever. Russo CAN book a good wrestling show, he just needs people to keep him from going overboard with crazy shit. The theory behind a lot of his WCW makes sense, but in practice it was always taken way too far with talent that weren't good enough to make the angles work.

I definitely think it was a better year for wrestling but I don't think anything really tops 98-99 WWF when it comes to compelling storytelling. The whole card was just filled with interesting stories and very few of them fell flat.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

WCW was savable right up to the moment where it came out that AOL was trying to sell off WCW, which if I remember right was right around the time of the second reboot.

WCW started getting geniunely good again around January 2001 when Bischoff came back. He seemed to have learned from his mistakes and completely re-energized the Cruiserweight division. Scott Steiner was the most legit World Champion they'd had in a long time and Booker T was a great guy to be chasing him. January-March 2001 WCW was fun to watch. But the damage had been done.

 

[strobogo]

What I get from it is that he realized he'd be a great heel, which he was, in the sense that you really do hate him and want to see bad things happen to him on screen. He saw what McMahon did as an exaggerated version of himself and figured that he'd be even more unlikeable (which he was), but he did it to the point of extreme over exposure without getting his comeuppance nearly enough. Same thing for Bischoff. I think they really believed that the majority of the audience was reading the Observer and online sites all the time and thought that internet fans would hate Eric and Vince more than anyone. And to be fair, I think they were definitely the most hateable people WCW had at the time. I really believe that they believed that they were doing good stuff of making the fans hate them and want to see them get beat up. Instead, fans hated them so much that they just stopped watching. Add in a WWF that was on fire with a crazy stacked roster and writing that wasn't stupid smarky bullshit that went completely over the heads of most of the audience, and it isn't very hard to see why things ended the way they did.

The corporate structure of WCW played a big part, I think. So many guys were just there to soak up ridiculous contracts and didn't give the slightest shit about putting on a good show. Guys who weren't even used for 2 years were getting 6 figure contracts. Hall and Nash lobbied for guys to get paid more because their contracts stated that they'd have to get matched for anyone brought in with a bigger contract. So when Bret came in at some crazy price, Hall and Nash got a raise. And when top guys got a raise, they got a raise. Even if they weren't on TV. And that was kind of the core of WCW. It stopped being a wrestling promotion sometime in 1997 when it became a place where carnies could try to steal money with as little work as possible.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

By the way, have you gotten to the episode of Thunder where Russo declared it martial law night and had every match with no referees, telling the wrestlers to count their own pins and such?

Almost as much as a trainwreck as Gene Okerlund vs. Mark Madden.

 

[somedevil]

That review a wai of the April 10 WCW episode of Russo returning is a classic. Basically Russo finished killing WCW and basically killed the growth of TNA and ruined Samoa Joe.

Also, this gif is brought to you by Agent 47:

 

[Man God]

What I get from it is that he realized he'd be a great heel, which he was, in the sense that you really do hate him and want to see bad things happen to him on screen. He saw what McMahon did as an exaggerated version of himself and figured that he'd be even more unlikeable (which he was), but he did it to the point of extreme over exposure without getting his comeuppance nearly enough. Same thing for Bischoff. I think they really believed that the majority of the audience was reading the Observer and online sites all the time and thought that internet fans would hate Eric and Vince more than anyone. And to be fair, I think they were definitely the most hateable people WCW had at the time. I really believe that they believed that they were doing good stuff of making the fans hate them and want to see them get beat up. Instead, fans hated them so much that they just stopped watching. Add in a WWF that was on fire with a crazy stacked roster and writing that wasn't stupid smarky bullshit that went completely over the heads of most of the audience, and it isn't very hard to see why things ended the way they did.

The corporate structure of WCW played a big part, I think. So many guys were just there to soak up ridiculous contracts and didn't give the slightest shit about putting on a good show. Guys who weren't even used for 2 years were getting 6 figure contracts. Hall and Nash lobbied for guys to get paid more because their contracts stated that they'd have to get matched for anyone brought in with a bigger contract. So when Bret came in at some crazy price, Hall and Nash got a raise. And when top guys got a raise, they got a raise. Even if they weren't on TV. And that was kind of the core of WCW. It stopped being a wrestling promotion sometime in 1997 when it became a place where carnies could try to steal money with as little work as possible.

This also lead to the extra low selling price of WCW and their contracts. Turner still had all the big names who got to just sit at home and collect checks.

This is why putting the New Blood as heels was a terrrrrrrible idea. They could have had a real meta thing going with them as faces (They tried doing this for the second reboot but it was much too late)

Now to be fair they didn't really have anyone in the mid card who could actually cut a promo. Kidman and Vampiro were awful on the mike so I guess this explains why they went with JJ and a heel stable.

 

[strobogo]

By the way, have you gotten to the episode of Thunder where Russo declared it martial law night and had every match with no referees, telling the wrestlers to count their own pins and such?

Almost as much as a trainwreck as Gene Okerlund vs. Mark Madden.

Yes. It was a few shows ago. It was stupid.


The real problem with Bischoff/Russo was that they promised something new and exciting, but didn't provide it at all. Everything they did was just a rehash of the past 3 years of WCW and WWF. They didn't really do anything original. They just took old stale angles with new people and made them worse. Like WCW really needed another giant heel stable with the boss in charge of it. The major issue I'm seeing is that the general idea of the New Blood is a good idea, but the actual booking was completely counter productive to the stories they were trying to tell. The old dudes should have been the heels in this. That's the whole point of the New Blood angle: The old guys won't step down and keep holding the younger popular talent down. It makes no sense at all to book the young guys as heels. They should be faces struggling to prove their worth to both the old guys and their fans. But all the popular faces were turned into giant dickhead heels who were jealous assholes. And then when it came to actual matches, most of them proved that the old guys were right all along and the younger guys couldn't hang. Just completely counter productive to the story they were trying to tell.

Most egregious were the heel turns of Kidman and Vampiro, who both were being pushed as the next top face stars of WCW and were both really over. It completely derailed them. They tried it with Booker, as well, but relented and turned him back face pretty quickly, only to stick him with GI Bro. The irony is that most of the old guys were actually pushed harder after Russo and Bischoff came back and had the whole New Blood thing. Hogan, Flair, Sting, Luger were on the shows way more than they were in the months before. I don't think it helped any of the young guys at all. The actual booking made them look like they couldn't hang with the old washed up guys that should retire. Most of them either didn't recover in America or were remade in WWE images.

 

[Perspicacity]

You should also watch the Best of NXT Season 3.

At least link the best episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddv4SW8rtyU

 

[Data West]

You guys, I just found out about the youtube snake thing

 

[Raw64life]

Anyone else catch Cole giving himself a hernia putting over the neutralizer on Khali?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQdClulePQ#t=1m11s

 

[Plywood]

Anyone else catch Cole giving himself a hernia putting over the neutralizer on Khali?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQdClulePQ#t=1m11s

EHHHWWWWLLLLAAAAA

 

[Coldnoodle]

So when is Brock coming back?

 

[Kaladin]

Here is a match from Wrestlemania weekend most of you probably have not seen. It's from NWA Ring Warriors and they had Ring of Honor's Jim Cornette bring a challenger for then NWA World Heavyweight Champion Adam Pearce. Cornette brought in Adam Cole to challenge for the belt......see what happens:

Adam Pearce vs Adam Cole (NWA World Heavyweight Championship)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzvEp6q7QMI

 

[strobogo]

Anyone else catch Cole giving himself a hernia putting over the neutralizer on Khali?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQdClulePQ#t=1m11s

It's embarrassing that those kind of xenophobic, rah rah USA type promos are still being used at this point. And that anti-USA gimmicks are still being used. But I guess those really haven't left other forms of entertainment, either. Still, a USA chant for anyone but Jim Duggan or Sgt. Slaughter makes me cringe. Jim Duggan could get USA chants in other countries.

 

[Enfinit]

So I checked out Hulk Hogan's new restaurant in Clearwater. About twenty minutes from where I live.

It's actually a pretty cool place.

Spoiler

brother

 

[FallingEdge]

So with Wrestle Kingdom 7 ondeamand on ustream, there is no way to just skip to the match I want to watch without buffering the event?

 

[RBH]

For those who missed it:

The Best of WCW Monday Nitro Vol. 2

Release Date: February 12th, 2013



DISC 1

WCW United States Championship Match
Sting vs. Ric Flair
4th September, 1995

Madusa trashed the WWE Women’s Championship
18th December, 1995

Trashing the Gold

Hulk Hogan vs. Arn Anderson
12th February, 1996

Steiner Brothers vs. Road Warriors
11th March, 1996

Cruiserweights

Jushin “Thunder” Liger vs. Dean Malenko
6th May, 1996

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Rey Mysterio vs. Juventud Guerrera
16th September, 1996

Rookie of the Year

Eric Bischoff’s Biggest Regret
30th September, 1996

WCW United States Championship Tournament Quarter Finals Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Jeff Jarrett
9th December, 1996

The Lone Wolf

Kevin Nash patches up potholes
21st April, 1997

Hollywood Hogan makes Sting worship him
26th May, 1997

Through the Crowd

Ric Flair vs. Scott Hall
2nd June, 1997



DISC 2

Celebrities

Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman call out Lex Luger & The Giant
16th June, 1997

Rey Mysterio vs. Kevin Nash
30th June, 1997

La Parka vs. Randy Savage
7th July, 1997

Goldberg vs. Hugh Morrus
22nd September, 1997

Homegrown

Booker T vs. Jeff Jarrett
6th October, 1997

Street Fight for the WCW World Tag Team Championship
Steiner Brothers vs. Public Enemy
3rd November, 1997

NWO sings “O Canada”
10th November, 1997

Booker T vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
15th December, 1997

Remembering Macho Man

Rey Mysterio, Juventud Guerrera & Hector Garza vs. Psicosis, Silver King & La Parka
22nd December, 1997

WCW United States Championship Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Chris Jericho
5th January, 1998

Spring Breakout

Hollywood Hogan, Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Sting, “Macho Man” Randy Savage & The Giant
9th March, 1998

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Sting vs. Diamond Dallas Page
23rd March, 1998

Raven’s Rules Match for the WCW United States Championship
Raven vs. Goldberg
20th April, 1998

Birth of the Wolfpac
4th May, 1998



DISC 3

NWO Divided

Kevin Nash & Lex Luger vs. Hollywood Hogan & The Giant
1st June, 1998

Chris Jericho meets the real Goldberg
28th September, 1998

Nitro Parties

Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero
21st December, 1998

Ladder Match for the Taser
Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Scott Hall
25th January, 1999

WCW United States Championship Match
Bret “Hit Man” Hart vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper
8th February, 1999

Jersey Boys

WCW World Tag Team Championship Match
Perry Saturn & Kaynon vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Bam Bam Bigelow
31st May, 1999

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Hollywood Hogan
12th July, 1999

Nitro Girls

WCW World Tag Team Championship Match
Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Goldberg & Bret “Hit Man” Hart
13th December, 1999

House of Pain Match
Sting vs. Vampiro
15th May, 2000

Shane Helms vs. Shannon Moore
26th February, 2001

WCW United States & World Heavyweight Championship Match
Booker T vs. Scott Steiner
26th March, 2001

A Celebration of Nitro



BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Lex Luger
11th September, 1995

Ric Flair vs. Brian Pillman
18th September, 1995

J.L. vs. NWO Sting
21st October, 1996

Sting & Lex Luger vs. Hollywood Hogan & Randy Savage
16th March, 1998

Steel Cage Match
Diamond Dallas Page vs. Randy Savage
15th June, 1998

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Goldberg vs. Sting
14th September, 1998

WCW Television Championship Match
Scott Steiner vs. Chris Jericho
1st February, 1999

Ric Flair & Goldberg vs. Hollywood Hogan & Kevin Nash
15th March, 1999

Jeff Jarrett reclaims his WCW World Heavyweight Championship
22nd November, 1999

DDP and Randy Savage’s War of Words

 

[DMczaf]

What the fuck is The Rock doing? He's actual movie star now, not Scorpion King star but a REAL MOVIE STAR. Stop this shit!

 

[Plywood]

Know your roots.

 

[jred2k]

I feel bad for Ryback there, he just found out his whole family flew to Paris without him.

Also, even if it was on Smackdown and even though he had to take the pin, it was cool to see Cesaro in the main event tonight. Its good to see that they're paying attention to the quality of his work, especially how much he's been showcasing it the past few weeks.

 

[Data West]

Layla @mslayel
On a serious note

Who wouldlike to win a date with me ???

 

[Anth0ny]

I feel bad for Ryback there, he just found out his whole family flew to Paris without him.

bahahahaha well done

 

[Plywood]

Layla has finally reached the point in her life where she'll take any man.

My time is now.

 

[blackaroni]

Well damn. Was gonna make the 20th anniversary Raw in Houston the first rasslin' event I attend, but it's sold out....must be The Rock. Does WWE ever open up tickets closer to the event or is that up to the Toyota Center?

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Layla has finally reached the point in her life where she'll take any man.

My time is now.

I WILL FIGHT YOU

 

[SoulPlaya]

GGG is hip.

 

[strobogo]

Kane had a chav gimmick?

 

[Parallax]

Layla has finally reached the point in her life where she'll take any man.

My time is now.

You're time is up.

 

[Plywood]

I WILL FIGHT YOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL7atl1em2o

You're time is up.

Uh huh.

 

[Data West]

I'm pretty sure Layla is dating Kaitlyn. I'm pretty sure I read that in my fanfic.

 

[slightconfuse]

Just got back from DJANGO, movie was amazing

 

[Plywood]

I'm pretty sure Layla is dating Kaitlyn. I'm pretty sure I read that in my fanfic.

I'm pretty sure you're right except that it's real because their butts kissed.

 

[Guzim]

At least link the best episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddv4SW8rtyU

Notice who has the second highest rated comment. Also, I'm drunk watching this.

On a different not, fuck you Taco Bell. I said no lettuce on my double decker taco, not no meat!!

 

[Data West]

 

[miserable]

For those who missed it:

No 4th January,1999 Fingerpoke of Doom, no buy.That was the best Nitro ever.I'm serious.

 

[Jamie OD]

Layla has finally reached the point in her life where she'll take any man.

My time is now.

She's insatiable. She can't get enough. She needs to find a boy.

 

[strobogo]

I'm catching up on Wrestle Kingdom. Why does Liger need a wig on his mask? He should rock a bad ass bald mask instead. Maybe something like later era Muta masks.

 

[Data West]

I'm catching up on Wrestle Kingdom. Why does Liger need a wig on his mask? He should rock a bad ass bald mask instead. Maybe something like later era Muta masks.

Anime came first, so it might breach his contract if he didn't have the long hair. He technically wore a bald mask when he was in his mma/heavyweight phase.

 

[Aiii]

Liger can't be bald! That's blasphemy!

That's like Kane going bald! It would look horrible! Impossi... Oh, wait...

 

[Buckethead]

This Sting was so awesome. Should have used this attire more.

It's god tier.

 

[strobogo]

Liger can't be bald! That's blasphemy!

That's like Kane going bald! It would look horrible! Impossi... Oh, wait...

His HBK level bald spot was pretty amazing, I thought. Also, why was he in a dark match? Additionally, how does MVP get away with retaining the look and name of the MVP gimmick? Is it because he's in Japan and not TNA? Remember when Bob Sapp had a 6 pack and almost no body fat? He looked like a god damn cartoon. Does Manabu Nakanishi have brain damage? Serious question.

This Sting was so awesome. Should have used this attire more.

It's god tier.

I swear I don't remember him wearing it live. Maybe once after his brief heel turn in 1999 that didn't take at all. There are a lot of promo pictures of him in that outfit, but on screen he was almost always in his ring gear with jacket or a Sting shirt. Now that I think about it, I think he wrestled a match dressed in that, but I don't remember the specifics.

 

[British Monsoon]

His HBK level bald spot was pretty amazing, I thought. Also, why was he in a dark match? Additionally, how does MVP get away with retaining the look and name of the MVP gimmick? Is it because he's in Japan and not TNA? Remember when Bob Sapp had a 6 pack and almost no body fat? He looked like a god damn cartoon. Does Manabu Nakanishi have brain damage? Serious question.

Liger was in a dark match because he's not really doing anything important at the moment, just concentrating on training the young lions at the New Japan dojo. If I remember correctly, MVP was the one who came up with the gimmick and somehow managed to retain all rights to it. Sapp looked so confused for most of that 8-man tag. As for Nakanishi, he suffered a pretty severe spinal cord injury a year or two back, which probably explains why he hobbles around the ring like Terry Funk.

So with Wrestle Kingdom 7 ondeamand on ustream, there is no way to just skip to the match I want to watch without buffering the event?

I don't think so, unfortunately - I just used VSO Downloader 2 to grab the on demand file so I could watch it whenever I want.

 

[strobogo]

Liger was in a dark match because he's not really doing anything important at the moment, just concentrating on training the young lions at the New Japan dojo. If I remember correctly, MVP was the one who came up with the gimmick and somehow managed to retain all rights to it. Sapp looked so confused for most of that 8-man tag. As for Nakanishi, he suffered a pretty severe spinal cord injury a year or two back, which probably explains why he hobbles around the ring like Terry Funk.

I see. It wasn't so much the hobbling around, but more his weird upper body movements and odd faces. He kind of came off to me like there wasn't a whole lot firing upstairs for him.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Sting never did wrestle shirtless in WCW after the black-and-white thing. He always wore the singlet top with pants.

 

[Toki767]

Playing through WWE 13 I kind of wish WWE would license some WCW game that went through the Nitro era, but reading through strobogo's recaps just make me shudder at the thought.