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[rvy]

I think it's that they got too big for their own good. Companies started being run by people who have no interest in games.
And on top of that we have an entire generation of western developers who grew up playing Japanese games and learning from them.

 

[RukusProvider]

Different cultures, different tastes.

As the western dev scene took off, the userbase gravitated and never looked back.

I expect no such "comeback" from Japanese devs next gen either. They stick to what they know and that isn't working as well these days.

Personally, I'm happy to see the western devs dominate as their taste aligns closely with mine.

Outside of Bayonetta, I can't think of any Japanese games I liked or even considered this generation.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Japenese developpers make game who stick with their culture. The typical japense game have a lot of suggestive sexual theme, players play most of the time someone under 18 and if you are unlucky enough the game will have some sick and twisted pedophile innuendo.

I think most of the gamers by now are now older and they realised that japenese games sucks and doesnt stick with what we love.

You will never see a good shooter like gears of war or something like fallout coming from japan but on the other hand they still have some verry popular rpg among the fans like Final Fantasy, disgea, persona and i dont see them changing the formula of these games.


I seriously think the real problem with the japenese game is nothing more than a cultural problem. They do games their way who stick with the japan culture thinking we still love to play a game where the hero is a 8yr old boy while in fact most of us right now prefer games with bad ass like Marcus Fenix or Nico bellic.

Serious question, how old are you?

 

[BGBW]

I read your whole post OP and what I got from it is that you're upset you can't buy yesterday's games today.

Doesn't this problem exist for all companies around the world? Microsoft aren't exactly the Kings of Backwards Compatibility.

 

[fabricated backlash]

No, like Resident Evil 4, the game that modern western third person shooters couldn't exist without.

Or Vanquish from the same director, to keep it recent.

Well then it's not Japan, it's Mikami.

 

[Exterminieren]

I read your whole post OP and what I got from it is that you're upset you can't buy yesterday's games today.

Doesn't this problem exist for all companies around the world? Microsoft aren't exactly the Kings of Backwards Compatibility.

Hmm.

The DVD analogy doesn't work, either; my Blu-Ray player doesn't play my VHS tapes on it.

 

[Bleep]

Japenese developpers make game who stick with their culture. The typical japense game have a lot of suggestive sexual theme, players play most of the time someone under 18 and if you are unlucky enough the game will have some sick and twisted pedophile innuendo.

I think most of the gamers by now are now older and they realised that japenese games sucks and doesnt stick with what we love.

You will never see a good shooter like gears of war or something like fallout coming from japan but on the other hand they still have some verry popular rpg among the fans like Final Fantasy, disgea, persona and i dont see them changing the formula of these games.


I seriously think the real problem with the japenese game is nothing more than a cultural problem. They do games their way who stick with the japan culture thinking we still love to play a game where the hero is a 8yr old boy while in fact most of us right now prefer games with bad ass like Marcus Fenix or Nico bellic.

This is one of the greatest posts I have read on any forum on the internet.

 

[MaverickHunterX]

So what you're trying to say is that Japanese publishers are managed by people who are utterly clueless? I don't think anyone sensible would disagree with that.

Given that Inafune was a pioneer in handing off Japanese IPs to Western developers, though (for his most recent example, Ninja Gaiden Z), I don't think he was referring to management practices when talking about how Japanese games themselves are falling behind. That's not to say he thinks most Japanese companies are well-managed. He'd still be at Capcom otherwise. But I think he believes that most Japanese developers don't do a good job of making games for a worldwide market.

I want to repond to this statement because it's closest to the point I was trying to make. (again guys, it's not about someone saying Japanese games suck, that's not the point. I'm comparing gaming business styles versus if GOW/COD is better than Vanquish/QT, etc)

Yeah, infaune gave the western dev a chance to develop some Japanese flavored games. Some were awesome (dead rising), and a lot sucked (Bionic Commando remake, Final Fight Streetwise, etc)

But my point is that Inafune is not saying "oh, give Japanese games to the west to save the day," but try a western perspective in taking that next step in running the gaming business, such as :

-improving online support/digital content (I mean, more than Japan first)
-turn down the ego trip/"the my-shit-don't-stink" attitude that a lot of the old school companies have...
-listening to the fanboys.once in a while
-stop rehashing the same shit over and over (e.g. the FFXIII trilogy) when people tell you they hate it.
-stop tell me how to play my games/play my old games...

I should think that the majority of said companies bitch and moan about how their sales suck, but ignorant all the steps above.
Sory guys, your games won't sell the 10 million plus that COD does, but doesn't mean you cannot make some excellent games trying to reach for this. Hell, it's what they did back in the day...

I read your whole post OP and what I got from it is that you're upset you can't buy yesterday's games today.

Doesn't this problem exist for all companies around the world? Microsoft aren't exactly the Kings of Backwards Compatibility.

True, but that was a chipset issue. They weren't thinking about the future, and they screwed themselves over. They're also lazy fucks in that point. But Sony used the excuse of price to remove BC. You mean to tell me it would have cost 200 bucks to toss that EE chip in the Slim v2? Also, weren't they the first to do the HD Collection thing? Remember, in the ps2 era, Sony fucking championed BC support

Hmm.

The DVD analogy doesn't work, either; my Blu-Ray player doesn't play my VHS tapes on it.

Yeah, and my Wii wouldn't accept my NES carts, but we are talking about a common format where a solution can be easily produced, but corps would rather fuck you over instead of giving you the choice. Like with Wii U? You really think that they couldn't throw GC BC in there? They would rather me pay 20 bucks to replay Wind Waker instead of the one on my fucking shelf.

 

[RukusProvider]

Japanese devs failing to capitalize on the boom of online gaming was their true downfall this generation.

 

[encephalon]

any good Japanese games have been aimed at a foreign or global audience.

This isn't true.

 

[GorillaJu]

The funny thing is that most of what I read in gaming press is basically a marginally better-written, slightly subtler version of JimFear's epic truth bombs.

Great games of any origin are almost never "aimed at an audience." They're a vision given life. The audience will buy a game if its good, even when you don't tell them "hey I heard you like space station games so I made a space station game in your space station game so you can space station game while you space station game. Just buy it already, okay?"

Case in point: BioShock sold well even though it wasn't made for a blatant focus group demographic.

 

[ponpo]

Japanese devs failing to capitalize on the boom of online gaming was their true downfall this generation.

No, they just tend to make more interesting games where an online component isn't needed. I don't want online Vanquish or Nier or w/e.

Also the most time I've spent online this gen by far as been Demon's / Dark Souls and then perhaps Gundam EXVS. ~japan~

 

[masud]

I think the real problem is the homogenization of gaming tastes (and gaming in general) that took place in the west this generation. Also a lot of Japanese devs have had problems adjusting to current gen hardware. I don't think the games are getting worse.

 

[Risette]

Japanese devs failing to capitalize on the boom of online gaming was their true downfall this generation.

But the best use of online gaming this gen was a Japanese series (Dark/Demons Souls) ?

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Japanese devs failing to capitalize on the boom of online gaming was their true downfall this generation.

Because it wasn't what their core market wanted.

When the PS2 era closed out, Japan's gaming landscape diverged from the North American focus, they chose gaming on the go, and a lot of effort was spent chasing that dollar. Online didn't matter to them.

 

[MaverickHunterX]

Japanese devs failing to capitalize on the boom of online gaming was their true downfall this generation.

But the sad thing is that Japan has pretty awesome online. They did last gen too. Lots of capcom/dreamcast support. Same with ps2 (mvc2, cvs2, etc) but it seems they drag their heels bring this shit overseas. I'm just asking why

 

[GorillaJu]

But the best use of online gaming this gen was a Japanese series (Dark/Demons Souls) ?

Best use? Really subjective territory there. I personally thought Journey has the best use of online gaming this generation. There are other cool ones though, like Fifa clubs.

 

[Risette]

I want to repond to this statement because it's closest to the point I was trying to make. (again guys, it's not about someone saying Japanese games suck, that's not the point. I'm comparing gaming business styles versus if GOW/COD is better than Vanquish/QT, etc)

Yeah, infaune gave the western dev a chance to develop some Japanese flavored games. Some were awesome (dead rising), and a lot sucked (Bionic Commando remake, Final Fight Streetwise, etc)

But my point is that Inafune is not saying "oh, give Japanese games to the west to save the day," but try a western perspective in taking that next step in running the gaming business, such as :

-improving online support/digital content (I mean, more than Japan first)
-turn down the ego trip/"the my-shit-don't-stink" attitude that a lot of the old school companies have...
-listening to the fanboys.once in a while
-stop rehashing the same shit over and over (e.g. the FFXIII trilogy) when people tell you they hate it.
-stop tell me how to play my games/play my old games...

I should think that the majority of said companies bitch and moan about how their sales suck, but ignorant all the steps above.
Sory guys, your games won't sell the 10 million plus that COD does, but doesn't mean you cannot make some excellent games trying to reach for this. Hell, it's what they did back in the day...




True, but that was a chipset issue. They're also lazy fucks in that point. But Sony used the excuse of price to remove BC. You mean to tell me it would have cost 200 bucks to toss that EE chip in the Slim v2? Also, weren't they the first to do the HD Collection thing?




Yeah, and my Wii wouldn't accept my NES carts, but we are talking about a common format where a solution can be easily produced, but corps would rather fuck you over instead of giving you the choice. Like with Wii U? You really think that couldn't throw GC BC in there? They would rather me play 20 bucks to replay Wind Waker instead of the one on my fucking shelf.

The only reason I wouldn't write BC off entirely is because of stuff that can't be ported due to licensing/legal shit, but generally speaking, (good) HD collections/ports should be preferred to BC. Who cares about paying for them again when they're cheap and superior? There's only an issue when they're shit like the SH HD collection.

 

[Orayn]

This isn't true.

Really? Really? You don't think any of Nintendo's internationally successful series have taken audiences outside of Japan into consideration? Or Capcom's for that matter? How about Nier, whose alternate "pretty boy" version was created exclusively for Japan while the normal "old man" version was the only one sold everywhere else? (It's not the other way around, mind you.)

 

[dionysus]

Besides the OPs pet peeve on not rereleasing old games, what I got from his argument was that Japanese companies make more bad business decisions than western ones.

I am not sure this is true. EA, THQ, Midway, etc. all make terrible decisions all the time. Those are just a few examples.

EA has a long history of paying a ton of money for developers they shutter or gut within 2 years. At this point one can only conclude that this is actually part of the business plan, and their management is so creatively bankrupt that the only way they can maintain their position is to waste huge sums of cash paying to close down their competition. This trend will end soon as EA's cash pile is shriveling up.

Midway...

THQ paid tons of money for shit licenses like Nickelodean (sp?), developed a few games, then decided the license business wasn't for them but they still had to pay license fees even with no games coming. THQ sunk the company making udraw tablets for 360 and ps3 in an epic failure that can only be likened to burying unsold ET cartridges in the desert. THQ will probably not exist in 2014.

In fact, one of the examples the OP lists as making terrible decisiosn is Square. Yet from my perspective Square has made amazing business decisions this generation, and it is their internal development that has performed poorly.

 

[Exterminieren]

Yeah, and my Wii wouldn't accept my NES carts, but we are talking about a common format where a solution can be easily produced, but corps would rather fuck you over instead of giving you the choice. Like with Wii U? You really think that they couldn't throw GC BC in there? They would rather me pay 20 bucks to replay Wind Waker instead of the one on my fucking shelf.

Considering it would require a whole separate disc drive to play GC games, a decision which caused the Wii a fair share of problems... I don't have all that much of a problem with it, frankly.

In terms of being compatible with the disc drives, the Gamecube minidiscs may as well be cartridges.

 

[Fularu]

After all, we owe the entire modern gaming existence to Japan. But then again, times have changed from that of 25 years ago where we were dependent on Japan for 95% of our mainstream games. The western world have been able to stand on their own two feet and create their own modern classics. In recent times, said games have been more successful than those of our Japanese counterparts.

With such a false start, the rest of your argument crumbles. Unless all you did was game on your Nes and Snes. The European and US computer gaming DNA was strong even before Nintendo dared enter the gaming world. No one needed Japan to tell them "how it's done", let alone needed Japan to get their gaming fix. You should probably take a long look at the Amiga/ST/C64/Speccy and 82-95 PC gaming to get a clue.

 

[Clear]

With such a false start, the rest of your argument crumbles. Unless all you did was game on your Nes and Snes. The European and US computer gaming DNA was strong even before Nintendo dared enter the gaming world. No one needed Japan to tell them "how it's done", let alone needed Japan to get their gaming fix. You should probably take a long look at the Amiga/ST/C64/Speccy and 82-95 PC gaming to get a clue.

Well said. It also needs to be remembered that America is not the "Western market", its a significant part of it, but not its totality.

 

[DDayton]

Somehow, the OP makes me expect to see little tinfoil hats everywhere.... I mean, Iwata is intentionally making poor decisions due to his pride? I mean, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with there being a negative side to letting your competitor publish an update to one of your biggest hits ever... oh, never that.

 

[Mr_Appleby]

Funny you know, when I was a kid it never occurred to me to pay any attention to what country the game was made in.

EA

Once upon a time, EA were amazing.

 

[antitrop]

The only reason I wouldn't write BC off entirely is because of stuff that can't be ported due to licensing/legal shit, but generally speaking, (good) HD collections/ports should be preferred to BC. Who cares about paying for them again when they're cheap and superior? There's only an issue when they're shit like the SH HD collection.

I'lll never complain about same great gameplay now with better graphics! Bring on all the HD remakes you can.

 

[Tobe]

Japenese developpers make game who stick with their culture. The typical japense game have a lot of suggestive sexual theme, players play most of the time someone under 18 and if you are unlucky enough the game will have some sick and twisted pedophile innuendo.

I think most of the gamers by now are now older and they realised that japenese games sucks and doesnt stick with what we love.

You will never see a good shooter like gears of war or something like fallout coming from japan but on the other hand they still have some verry popular rpg among the fans like Final Fantasy, disgea, persona and i dont see them changing the formula of these games.


I seriously think the real problem with the japenese game is nothing more than a cultural problem. They do games their way who stick with the japan culture thinking we still love to play a game where the hero is a 8yr old boy while in fact most of us right now prefer games with bad ass like Marcus Fenix or Nico bellic.

 

[MaverickHunterX]

Besides the OPs pet peeve on not rereleasing old games, what I got from his argument was that Japanese companies make more bad business decisions than western ones.

I am not sure this is true. EA, THQ, Midway, etc. all make terrible decisions all the time. Those are just a few examples.

EA has a long history of paying a ton of money for developers they shutter or gut within 2 years. At this point one can only conclude that this is actually part of the business plan, and their management is so creatively bankrupt that the only way they can maintain their position is to waste huge sums of cash paying to close down their competition. This trend will end soon as EA's cash pile is shriveling up.

Midway...

THQ paid tons of money for shit licenses like Nickelodean (sp?), developed a few games, then decided the license business wasn't for them but they still had to pay license fees even with no games coming. THQ sunk the company making udraw tablets for 360 and ps3 in an epic failure that can only be likened to burying unsold ET cartridges in the desert. THQ will probably not exist in 2014.

In fact, one of the examples the OP lists as making terrible decisiosn is Square. Yet from my perspective Square has made amazing business decisions this generation, and it is their internal development that has performed poorly.

True on all points for the American companies. And I can easily agree to disagree on the square Enix thing, but I think people are misunderstanding my complaints on DD and BC.

The point is that all of this shit I am talking about is already digital but for some reason, only in Japan. These companies talk about the future of an online marketplace but what's the point if the number one market you cater towards is fucking Japan, where in fact, has the lowest connectivity rate for console than in NA/EUR. (perfect example, for the SE fans, how the fuck is Einhander not on Psone Classics anywhere else but Japan despite being up for almost 4 years?)

Another example is THQ. Hey guys, want some fast money? Renegotate your WWE license and put the n64 games up on VC. Will it take some extra work? Yep, but can it be done? Why not? Midway was able to for the old WWF arcade games (coming to XBLA soon).

The only reason I wouldn't write BC off entirely is because of stuff that can't be ported due to licensing/legal shit, but generally speaking, (good) HD collections/ports should be preferred to BC. Who cares about paying for them again when they're cheap and superior? There's only an issue when they're shit like the SH HD collection.

This is pretty much my case for BC. Fuck, look at the MM Legends games. Refuse to republish them. Refuse to redo them. And all the while, on,y the ebay sellers are getting rich, not capcom, and for this, people have no choice but to get ripped off, or just never experience these games...

Considering it would require a whole separate disc drive to play GC games, a decision which caused the Wii a fair share of problems... I don't have all that much of a problem with it, frankly.

In terms of being compatible with the disc drives, the Gamecube minidiscs may as well be cartridges.

Did not know that. My apologizes; your point proven.

With such a false start, the rest of your argument crumbles. Unless all you did was game on your Nes and Snes. The European and US computer gaming DNA was strong even before Nintendo dared enter the gaming world. No one needed Japan to tell them "how it's done", let alone needed Japan to get their gaming fix. You should probably take a long look at the Amiga/ST/C64/Speccy and 82-95 PC gaming to get a clue.

I knew this was gonna come up. Master Race, I mean no disrespect, but yeah, I know PC gaming started to get big in early 80s, but in truth, would you consider it as mainstream as 8-bit back then? I mean by which Amiga and C64 were as much of a household name as Nintendo? That is all I'm implying. Also, as stated in your comment, Japan really wasn't as big on the western movement on PC as much as their influence on consoles, therefore, it is left out for sake of argument.

 

[Drazgul]

With such a false start, the rest of your argument crumbles. Unless all you did was game on your Nes and Snes. The European and US computer gaming DNA was strong even before Nintendo dared enter the gaming world. No one needed Japan to tell them "how it's done", let alone needed Japan to get their gaming fix. You should probably take a long look at the Amiga/ST/C64/Speccy and 82-95 PC gaming to get a clue.

Hear hear.

 

[antitrop]

 

[Des0lar]

Haha all you guys fell for the first post troll. How could you not feel the irony dripping out of every sentence? The last one just was icing on the cake.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

I feel like too much effort is being put into trying to quantify both sides of the debate...

 

[RukusProvider]

No, they just tend to make more interesting games where an online component isn't needed. I don't want online Vanquish or Nier or w/e.

Also the most time I've spent online this gen by far as been Demon's / Dark Souls and then perhaps Gundam EXVS. ~japan~

There is nothing wrong with your subjective tastes. And the thread isn't about that.

This generation has been big on online gaming. For the most part, Japanese devs continued with that they know, their local audience responds to and as someone pointed out, the handheld market.

However, this approach didn't resonate with western audience who now had local devs catering to their tastes for online gaming, indie games and western RPGs.

I know it's very easy to hi five each other and blame the dude bros but really, games like braid, minecraft, bastion and a host of other this gen are prime examples of creativity and innovation and they sure didn't come out of Japan....

 

[Risette]

I know it's very easy to hi five each other and blame the dude bros but really, games like braid, minecraft, bastion and a host of other this gen are prime examples of creativity and innovation and they sure didn't come out of Japan....

Please explain how Braid and Bastion are innovative and creative.

 

[ponpo]

There is nothing wrong with your subjective tastes. And the thread isn't about that.

This generation has been big on online gaming. For the most part, Japanese devs continued with that they know, their local audience responds to and as someone pointed out, the handheld market.

However, this approach didn't resonate with western audience who now had local devs catering to their tastes for online gaming, indie games and western RPGs.

I know it's very easy to hi five each other and blame the dude bros but really, games like braid, minecraft, bastion and a host of other this gen are prime examples of creativity and innovation and they sure didn't come out of Japan....

I was just speaking generally in terms of 'interesting games', not to say nothing creative comes out of the west, but in terms of being creative and lacking online components, both Braid and Bastion don't include any either.

Unless you are talking about distribution specifically.

 

[antitrop]

Please explain how Braid and Bastion are innovative and creative.

 

[MaverickHunterX]

Somehow, the OP makes me expect to see little tinfoil hats everywhere.... I mean, Iwata is intentionally making poor decisions due to his pride? I mean, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with there being a negative side to letting your competitor publish an update to one of your biggest hits ever... oh, never that.

Not exactly tinfoil hats, but try it from this perspective.

All MS wanted was one fucking game where Nintendo would have received dozens of RARE classics like:

Any or all battle toads
Wizards and warriors
Perfect dark
Rc pro am
Slalom
Banjo 1 and 2
Ki 1 and 2
Jet force Gemini
Diddy kong racing
Conker (uncut, mind you)

Plus they would have been able to do a high res 64 version of Goldeneye themselves! Imagine the people arguing in this board. (GE HD got the online play but the Wii version is for purists, etc.). The Wii could of have a N64 renaissance instead of the 10+ actual games we got in 5 years

Yeah, I still say Iwata fucked up

 

[Kade]

japanese game is sword and sex while america game is gun and death

 

[whalleywhat]

I don't like games where I am a muscled up freak.

Neither do I. I need to start benching less.

 

[Finaika]

japanese game is sword and sex while america game is gun and death

Japan wins.

 

[Canis lupus]

Japan should make games they're good at.

 

[Durante]

Japanese devs failing to capitalize on the boom of online gaming was their true downfall this generation.

Which is interesting considering that the game with by far the most innovative use of online features this generation was developed in Japan.

Best use? Really subjective territory there. I personally thought Journey has the best use of online gaming this generation. There are other cool ones though, like Fifa clubs.

"Best" use may be subjective, but I think it can be objectively called the most innovative. It has 4 or 5 separate online features that could be sold (and probably would be, by a big western publisher) as groundbreaking.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

After all, we owe the entire modern gaming existence to Japan

No we don't.

*closes tab*

 

[djtiesto]

There is nothing wrong with your subjective tastes. And the thread isn't about that.

This generation has been big on online gaming. For the most part, Japanese devs continued with that they know, their local audience responds to and as someone pointed out, the handheld market.

However, this approach didn't resonate with western audience who now had local devs catering to their tastes for online gaming, indie games and western RPGs.

I know it's very easy to hi five each other and blame the dude bros but really, games like braid, minecraft, bastion and a host of other this gen are prime examples of creativity and innovation and they sure didn't come out of Japan....

Games like Catherine and Valkyria Chronicles are more creative with their mechanics than Braid (which is basically a postmodern indie hipster take on Super Mario Bros with POP's time rewinding mechanic in it) or Bastion, a game in a genre pioneered by Japanese games like Dragon Slayer, Hydlide, Ys and Zelda... but with a narrator talking over it. I normally like indie games and have a higher tolerance for their flaws, but I couldn't even make it through the demo of Bastion without being bored, and I struggled to finish Braid.

Personally, the games I mostly play over online are fighting games, like KOF XIII and SSF4. Just because Japanese devs don't feel an insistence on tacking on multiplayer to every game in sight doesn't mean they are "behind" in this category.

 

[injurai]

Xenophobia!!!

I know this is kinda of an unfair argument, but it wouldn't surprise me that this didn't have a hand. Among countless other reasons that is.

 

[7threst]

Japenese developpers make game who stick with their culture. The typical japense game have a lot of suggestive sexual theme, players play most of the time someone under 18 and if you are unlucky enough the game will have some sick and twisted pedophile innuendo.

I think most of the gamers by now are now older and they realised that japenese games sucks and doesnt stick with what we love.

You will never see a good shooter like gears of war or something like fallout coming from japan but on the other hand they still have some verry popular rpg among the fans like Final Fantasy, disgea, persona and i dont see them changing the formula of these games.


I seriously think the real problem with the japenese game is nothing more than a cultural problem. They do games their way who stick with the japan culture thinking we still love to play a game where the hero is a 8yr old boy while in fact most of us right now prefer games with bad ass like Marcus Fenix or Nico bellic.

Is this post serious...?

 

[Zia]

But the best use of online gaming in a Japanese game this gen was a Japanese series (Dark/Demons Souls) ?

Fixed that for you.

 

[Risette]

Fixed that for you.

You broke it

 

[Zia]

You broke it

: (

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

What I am proposing with this topic (and please forgive the long intro) is that what if Inafune's comments were taken out of context? What if Inafune doesn't want Japanese games made by Western dev houses, but rather wants his Japanese brothers and sisters to think about gaming (and its offerings) from a Western perspective

Not to derail or anything, but it never occurred to me that this wasn't explicit in his various comments.

Spoiler

It's Keiji btw