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Jez on the future of Xbox (rumour)

Humdinger

Gold Member
"Nobody wanted to give Xbox a chance."

I know Jez has already been taken to task by many people in the thread over this self-pitying response. I just wanted to add how common it is. If people do it here, in GAF, they get jumped on and corrected. But out in the general gaming populace, I see this attitude a lot. I expected it to have died out, but it's still going strong -- the whole "Xbox tax" narrative, "everyone's against us," "Xbox gets hammered and Playstation gets all the good publicity," etc. The level of self-pity and victimhood among (some) Xbox fans is really strange.
 

saintjules

Gold Member
Yes, it appears that Microsoft is changing Xbox. No longer a traditional console with exclucives, but a platform like steam, while maintaining hardware. Maybe Satya figured owning all those studios without a popular console to sell them on wasn’t sustainable, so he made it sustainable. Now they are gonna chase steam

Nailed it.
 
"Nobody wanted to give Xbox a chance."

I know Jez has already been taken to task by many people in the thread over this self-pitying response. I just wanted to add how common it is. If people do it here, in GAF, they get jumped on and corrected. But out in the general gaming populace, I see this attitude a lot. I expected it to have died out, but it's still going strong -- the whole "Xbox tax" narrative, "everyone's against us," "Xbox gets hammered and Playstation gets all the good publicity," etc. The level of self-pity and victimhood among (some) Xbox fans is really strange.

And I keep saying to fellow Xbox dudes that kind of attitude it is not the answer . Why don’t they ever question the likes of Phil, Matt Booty etc?

And if you look at it , the kind of logic they are pushing isn’t working at all is it? If anything it’s a detriment to what they claim they are a fan of.
 

saintjules

Gold Member
True, but also the business model is broken. There's no incentive for consumers buy your games when they can just subscribe for a month and dip out whenever they want. And then MS having to foot the bill for millions and years of development per game. And yeah the general quality of releases have been rather lackluster for big names like Bethesda. If Starfield and Halo delivered they could've garnered more attention and subs perhaps.

But really they needed that, on top of something like TES out in the first couple years of launch. Some new, fresh IP's or games like (Helldivers 2) and perhaps other games like Doom to fill in the gaps. The pandemic did help in the initial years as well as the chip shortage and demand in those times. But they failed to capitalize on the momentum.

I'm hearing that we should be hearing about the next Gears and Doom at the showcase.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
And I keep saying to fellow Xbox dudes that kind of attitude it is not the answer . Why don’t they ever question the likes of Phil, Matt Booty etc?

And if you look at it , the kind of logic they are pushing isn’t working at all is it? If anything it’s a detriment to what they claim they are a fan of.

Yes. Playing the victim never looks good, especially when you have participated in your own victimhood. They made excuses and bought into Phil's misdirection.

MS cultivated these sorts of attitudes with their "superfans," and the way they'd talk about how they were the forward-seeing disruptors of the industry. Little David Microsoft, battling against the Goliath Sony. Yeah, right. Poor little Microsoft.

It also makes the fans look clueless about their own brand's history. Microsoft/Xbox used to get very favorable treatment by the press and by gamers, back in the OG Xbox and 360 era. Heck, even "Sony GAF" was pro-Xbox back then. MS managed to squander all that good will, though, with one bad decision after another -- all-in on Kinect, the terrible Xbox One launch, a lack of good exclusives that continued for over a decade, going all-in on GamePass, releasing a lower-tier S model, losing the power narrative, spending bazillions to buy up publishers and deal with litigation, and then the embarrassing leaks that came out during that process.

Xbox has earned its bad publicity.

I guess they don't see that, though. Maybe it's echo chamber effects. Maybe these guys are new to gaming, so they don't know the history. Or maybe it's just the allure of victimhood when things don't go your way. That's always an easy out.
 
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"Nobody wanted to give Xbox a chance."

I know Jez has already been taken to task by many people in the thread over this self-pitying response. I just wanted to add how common it is. If people do it here, in GAF, they get jumped on and corrected. But out in the general gaming populace, I see this attitude a lot. I expected it to have died out, but it's still going strong -- the whole "Xbox tax" narrative, "everyone's against us," "Xbox gets hammered and Playstation gets all the good publicity," etc. The level of self-pity and victimhood among (some) Xbox fans is really strange.

Pretty much.

They need to be giving Xbox a kick in the butt instead of asking legislators to eliminate the competition. It's getting really ridiculous at this point.

These types of fans are not helping Xbox at all. They are only hurting the brand since Xbox seems to listen to them.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Xbox has lost Timdog










Season 8 Wtf GIF by The Office
 
His clarification says it will be more "steam deck-like" which I agree with. In my mind, that means having a default UI like Steam that gives it the console experience but behind the scenes it just runs Windows which allows for installing whatever you want. I do not think Steam will be integrated into a closed system because Gabe Newell has always been an advocate of open platforms and I doubt he would allow that. But you could be right and the OS will integrate itch.io and/or EGS as those are the stores Phil Spencer mentioned. If that is the case then they might as well not even bother. If they are trying to bring in PC gamers to Xbox hardware, it is Steam or nothing.

I was thinking this as well, but in light of the recent Vanguard BS with Riot Games seemingly (potentially) bricking PCs, not to mention all the various 3P DRM & anti-cheat stuff that could cause kernel-level issues, I don't know if Microsoft may quite take that exact approach. As in, something running straight-up Windows.

It might be more likely they make a custom version of Windows that is locked down to some extent so it's not quite as open as a straight-up Windows PC, but they'll still let multiple storefronts run on it. So, the Xbox storefront, the Windows storefront, Steam, GOG, EGS etc. They might let general Windows apps work on the device, but they'll probably have to be authenticated by Microsoft first, but in a storefront-agnostic way. So some type of custom security layer maybe otherwise not present on regular Windows.

That way someone probably doesn't end up accidentally installing something like Vanguard on their Xbox and screwing their system up, or some other crazy PC Windows app that could cause issues for a less-informed user. After all, they probably want those devices to "straddle the line" between a console and PC. Something with the ease-of-use of a console and the modularity (and productivity features) of PC, but without the micromanagement in settings and driver updates, security, BIOS/UEFI tampering etc. of a typical gaming PCs. It might be too much to ask that with a raw version of Windows running in the background on an Xbox device.

Also IIRC, the current Xbox systems already run a modified version of Windows. So MS would just need to expand on that and open it up a bit more. Make the UI friendly for KB&M, have built-in apps for Steam/GOG/EGS/Windows Store etc., have a storefront-agnostic authentication process for security/compatibility purposes (i.e you should be able to download Google Chrome from Windows Store or Steam, doesn't matter), and allow multi-application performance options (i.e can have a game, movie, web browser etc. running simultaneously). With the last one, I guess things like Quick Resume would be beneficial.

Basically it'd be easier for Microsoft to take what they already have with Xbox on the hardware & OS front and expand it to be more PC-like, than take Windows and consolize it. But, they could backport certain things with the next-gen Xbox device(s) to Windows updates. Even so, I'd otherwise expect a very much PC-like business model, so pricing would be higher than an actual console at similar performance. That's why I wouldn't be surprised a next-gen Xbox SKU doing the things suggested here, with say PS6-level base specs, would probably cost something like $699 or $799 instead of $499. Could also throw in a partially discounted year sub to Game Pass to some SKU to sweeten the value proposition.

It'd also mean they have to get rid of the online paywall, but I don't think anyone would be upset with that.
 

ArcaneNLSC

Member
Do you think their stubborn refusal to find quality leadership is gonna bite them in the ass even as a third-party?
Yes because if they keep pumping out these mediocre half finished games not even PlayStation or Nintendo fans will buy them or buy enough copies of them. It is likely just a honeymoon phase that the 4 games have sold pretty well but once fans actually see how piss poor the quality is on some of their other games they'll just ignore them. Both PlayStation and Nintendo fans are used to games scoring above 60 on meta and open critic
 

bender

What time is it?

YuLY

Member
Too many people use a PC daily for work and literally its the last thing they want to come home and mess with to game on (like my son)
This isnt 2010 anymore bro. All the young kids are growing using PCs/Laptops since their favorite content creators, influencers and streamers are on PC. Also they love making/editing music, videos, photos etc. for which you need PCs/Laptops.

Gen Z and Alpha are coming from behind with an attachment to both mobile and PCs and the "core" millennial audience that was mostly on console is aging out of gaming, yes slowly but it is getting there.

This mentality of coming from work and not wanting to stay at a desk on pc is so 30, 35, 40+ year old opinion, just cause your son is like that doesnt mean he is not an outlier. PC is the hottest it has ever been, in max 2 gens, consoles are done, except gimmicky stuff like switch. It is a relic of an ecosystem, a closed ecosystem and people desire more from their devices.
 

drganon

Member
This isnt 2010 anymore bro. All the young kids are growing using PCs/Laptops since their favorite content creators, influencers and streamers are on PC. Also they love making/editing music, videos, photos etc. for which you need PCs/Laptops.

Gen Z and Alpha are coming from behind with an attachment to both mobile and PCs and the "core" millennial audience that was mostly on console is aging out of gaming, yes slowly but it is getting there.

This mentality of coming from work and not wanting to stay at a desk on pc is so 30, 35, 40+ year old opinion, just cause your son is like that doesnt mean he is not an outlier. PC is the hottest it has ever been, in max 2 gens, consoles are done, except gimmicky stuff like switch. It is a relic of an ecosystem, a closed ecosystem and people desire more from their devices.
200w.gif
 

feynoob

Banned
This isnt 2010 anymore bro. All the young kids are growing using PCs/Laptops since their favorite content creators, influencers and streamers are on PC. Also they love making/editing music, videos, photos etc. for which you need PCs/Laptops.

Gen Z and Alpha are coming from behind with an attachment to both mobile and PCs and the "core" millennial audience that was mostly on console is aging out of gaming, yes slowly but it is getting there.

This mentality of coming from work and not wanting to stay at a desk on pc is so 30, 35, 40+ year old opinion, just cause your son is like that doesnt mean he is not an outlier. PC is the hottest it has ever been, in max 2 gens, consoles are done, except gimmicky stuff like switch. It is a relic of an ecosystem, a closed ecosystem and people desire more from their devices.
Yup, you are corrent brother. Some people here dont like to hear that.

The 35 years old forgot that they didnt have to use their computers for everything. Its become a part of our system right, just like how mobile/tablet is part of the new gen.
 

Three

Gold Member
Kind of have to pick between small form factor and a powerful GPU, they aren’t small.
images


I don’t think both is possible.
You could fit a powerful GPU into a small formfactor if you had shared components like one heatsink voltage regulators etc etc. Mostnof the chunkiness of a discreet graphics card comes from the fact that it has to be a separate pcb, heatsink, fans etc.
 
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Taycan77

Neophyte
Jez and Tom Warren knew full-well a handful of prominent UK Xbox studios had put in orders for PS5 development kits some time ago.

I don't know why they kept up the pretense Sea of Thieves was a test case title for future PS5 ports - those other ports have already been in the works for many months. Now we're just waiting for the announcements - and specifically MS's release strategy.

Forza, Halo, Gears, Starfield and more are all coming.
 
So some context. According to Timdog who was on Crossfire podcast hosted by Mooch who was Xbox fan in the Xbox One generation, Jez's source of information is Phil Spencer himself. Timdog has been in party chats with Phil for the last ten years, in fact he would plan his time to accommodate Phil and according to him Jez was also on those Party chats. And since the Timdog epiphany, Jez is Phil's new bestie now. So if he's getting information it's from the source.
As someone who found the relationship between Greg, Shu and Colin during the late PS3/early PS4 era slightly unethical/weird, this is absolutely insane. Why is Phil the CEO of microsoft gaming, whoring his time out to nameless deplorables like Jez, Timdog, Colt, Klobrille, etc.? Is he getting business inputs from these idiots, because that definitely explains the current state of Xbox and his historical bluders.
 

jm89

Member

I bet alot of this isn't just with the fact that Xbox is moving games over to ps, he probably got snubbed by Spencer or Greenberg and hasn't taken that well.

Never attach your selves to these gaming exes. Tim better not be expecting something like that from Sony execs, as they are mostly detached from these circles.
 
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hinch7

Member
So crazy how much Xbox one ruined them

And yet Nintendo came back from Wii u

What gives?
Difference being Nintendo has good IP's that are relevant and popular, even in the mainstream (Pokemon and Mario). And their handheld sales are always consistant, gen on gen.

Microsoft has to directly compete with Sony and PlayStation. Which they've been failing to do for the last decade, or so. Mostly coming down to software, or lack there-of.
 
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Woopah

Member
So crazy how much Xbox one ruined them

And yet Nintendo came back from Wii u

What gives?
The problems that plagued the launch of the Wii U were all things that could be changed with a new console:

1. First party developers / partners split across 4 software ecosystems
2. Poor marketing / branding
3. Unappealing hardware feature

Microsoft's main problem was a lack of appealing, exclusive content. They made efforts to change that (acquisitions) but those moves haven't always worked out, and didn't come I'm time to affect Xbox Series' early years.
 
"Nobody wanted to give Xbox a chance, so this is what they get with a Sony monopoly"
Not even MS, who never put an exclusive game on Series X/S. They have no one to blame but themselves for people not wanting a non-pc platform that shares its games with everyone else, so why get one at all? That's what I'll be thinking when the next Xbox comes out.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Microsoft is in a situation where multiplatform is almost inevitable. Their hardware doesn't sell, and they need profits on their software especially now that they have bought ABK. They can't continue to limit their games to their Xbox console only, unless they want to bleed money which they can take but isn't a good outlook. They tried with keeping Starfield exclusive, and that kind of failed and didn't increase the Xbox userbase. Starfield being exclusive reportedly cost Xbox a potential 10 million of sales. CoD, with its ongoing DLC would cost them far more than just copies. This is why I think the deal benefits MS more than it did Sony, as MS don't even have the brand power to back up such a huge IP.

Buying up a studio for some IP exclusivity is a strategy I would understand, but purchasing the entirety of ABK for console exclusivity never made much sense to me.

The best solution for them is to go multiplatform, and expand Xbox accounts to get more gamers into their ecosystem. Ofcourse it helps if they do release something that can play their games natively like Steam does because if they want to continue with GP, the competitor will ofcourse never allow it.

It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. Sony meanwhile limits itself to just Playstation (with some expansion to PC right now), while MS will generate income from Playstation and possible Nintendo gamers as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sony eventually follows suit. As we know we are in a world of capitalism, and as we can see there is no growth visible in overall console adoption compared to like 15 years ago. They need growth to sustain. In other words, they likely need to revise their overall strategy in the future. Even Sony isn't going to continue the way they do now.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
This quote here is perfect victim playing.

"Nobody wanted to give Xbox a chance, so this is what they get with a Sony monopoly"

Microsoft failed to capitalize on the success of the 360 :by shifting focus from games to kinect to then being a Tivo that played games on the side to then tried focusing on too many rivals not just Sony and Nintendo but Google Apple and Amazon all while piss poor management of games and trying to radicalise their extremist puppets

You need to have good product, its that simple.

MS released a system without anything to back it up essentially. They rode on games you could play on your last-gen device too. The majority of new games they released were simply bad products, they were disappointing and generated bad press. So the consumer saw little reason to choose the Xbox over the PS5. On top of that Xbox already lost a lot of markets with the X1, by being late and offering a worse system than Sony did. Before that, they alienated themselves from the gamer by going all in with Kinect which was a short term success for them but held absolutely no future (see plummeting Wii sales, and Wii U bombing despite the branding).

With the 360, bar the failures, MS initially had good product. It was a good system with good games and it managed to resonate with gamers. They doubled down on core games, heavily promoted Call of Duty and GTA etc. They hyped the games the consumer of that era wanted to play the most.
 
Kind of have to pick between small form factor and a powerful GPU, they aren’t small.
images


I don’t think both is possible.
You really don’t unless you are talking about like a 4090.

Plenty of 4080s and 4080 Supers fit in SFF cases.

I could have easily got a 4080/4080S in my Lian Li Dan A4 H2O and I believe they put plenty of 4090s in stuff like the Fractal SFF cases.
 
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