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Jez on the future of Xbox (rumour)

Topher

Identifies as young
He's getting a bit weird around the side loading of steam. I dont see the Xbox future hybrid OS being "unlockable" to side load anything. I'm expecting it to be a console like UI. Steam will be either integrated at launch or a normal downloadable app I would have thought. Thats if they want it to be a key reason/feature to buy one.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, which is entirely possible when it comes to ole Jizz and his tea leaves analysis.

His clarification says it will be more "steam deck-like" which I agree with. In my mind, that means having a default UI like Steam that gives it the console experience but behind the scenes it just runs Windows which allows for installing whatever you want. I do not think Steam will be integrated into a closed system because Gabe Newell has always been an advocate of open platforms and I doubt he would allow that. But you could be right and the OS will integrate itch.io and/or EGS as those are the stores Phil Spencer mentioned. If that is the case then they might as well not even bother. If they are trying to bring in PC gamers to Xbox hardware, it is Steam or nothing.
 

BlackTron

Gold Member
Once that wave is over, and XGS games on PS is normal, I think Xbox will struggle again to sell enough software to keep everything going. That's when we will see more layoffs, studios shut down, and a stronger pivot to smaller AA and mobile games.

During the surge period can't wait for certain people to say Xbox "beat Playstation on their own system". Once MS downsizes it will be because "PS fans didn't give them a fair chance"
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I am not sure why there is so much talk about Steam, I reckon we are just talking about a premium Xbox.
It’s because Phil Spencer said he’d like to see 3rd party stores like EGS on Xbox and people are assuming that includes Steam too.

Phil has essentially implied the next Xbox will have some ability to “side-load” (or be Windows based or some sort of dual boot.)

He’s also implied it’ll be priced for profit, which naturally justifies the side-loading aspect. He said essentially the loss leader model isn’t working.

It’s why I joked earlier this all sounds like it could be Spencer quotes.

Jez isn’t saying anything that isn’t based on what MS’s own executives have heavily hinted at.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
His clarification says it will be more "steam deck-like" which I agree with. In my mind, that means having a default UI like Steam that gives it the console experience but behind the scenes it just runs Windows which allows for installing whatever you want. I do not think Steam will be integrated into a closed system because Gabe Newell has always been an advocate of open platforms and I doubt he would allow that. But you could be right and the OS will integrate itch.io and/or EGS as those are the stores Phil Spencer mentioned. If that is the case then they might as well not even bother. If they are trying to bring in PC gamers to Xbox hardware, it is Steam or nothing.
Yeah him not mentioning Steam is funny. But maybe it truly is just “hey you can build a store on Xbox OS” (which Valve wouldn’t do.)

That world be hilariously stupid but very Xbox / Spencer.

Windows on Xbox would be a garbage experience for anyone without a mouse and keyboard hooked up so if’s also not a great idea from a casual standpoint.

I want it though lol
 
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King Dazzar

Member
His clarification says it will be more "steam deck-like" which I agree with. In my mind, that means having a default UI like Steam that gives it the console experience but behind the scenes it just runs Windows which allows for installing whatever you want. I do not think Steam will be integrated into a closed system because Gabe Newell has always been an advocate of open platforms and I doubt he would allow that. But you could be right and the OS will integrate itch.io and/or EGS as those are the stores Phil Spencer mentioned. If that is the case then they might as well not even bother. If they are trying to bring in PC gamers to Xbox hardware, it is Steam or nothing.
Ah OK, interesting take. In which case to me, what's the advantage between that and a hand built PC, which loads up direct into Steam Big Picture? If its just an overlay, with an accessible windows sat behind. Why bother with Xbox? Just build your own PC and use Steam as is. I assumed, by the sounds of it wrongly, that the Ui and hardware would all still be walled. Yeah, good luck with all that...
 

Zheph

Member
It’s because Phil Spencer said he’d like to see 3rd party stores like EGS on Xbox and people are assuming that includes Steam too.

Phil has essentially implied the next Xbox will have some ability to “side-load” (or be Windows based or some sort of dual boot.)

He’s also implied it’ll be priced for profit, which naturally justifies the side-loading aspect. He said essentially the loss leader model isn’t working.

It’s why I joked earlier this all sounds like it could be Spencer quotes.

Jez isn’t saying anything that isn’t based on what MS’s own executives have heavily hinted at.
So it's Spencer's fantasy at the moment. In that scenario, what's the advantage for Valve? Especially now when they have their own hardware. Just another point of entry?
 

Mr Moose

Member


Dude needs to stop responding. One minute he is saying it is all bullshit. The next he is confirming everything being said.

Stupidity Are You Stupid GIF

e9sDrb.gif
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Ah OK, interesting take. In which case to me, what's the advantage between that and a hand built PC, which loads up direct into Steam Big Picture? If its just an overlay, with an accessible windows sat behind. Why bother with Xbox? Just build your own PC and use Steam as is. I assumed, by the sounds of it wrongly, that the Ui and hardware would all still be walled. Yeah, good luck with all that...
Too many people use a PC daily for work and literally its the last thing they want to come home and mess with to game on (like my son)

I know he would pay a lot of money for an enclosed PC that is an Xbox experience, push the button on the controller and go

In fact have seen a few here say the same thing.

Question is how big is that market?
 

Topher

Identifies as young
It’s because Phil Spencer said he’d like to see 3rd party stores like EGS on Xbox and people are assuming that includes Steam too.

Phil has essentially implied the next Xbox will have some ability to “side-load” (or be Windows based or some sort of dual boot.)

He’s also implied it’ll be priced for profit, which naturally justifies the side-loading aspect. He said essentially the loss leader model isn’t working.

It’s why I joked earlier this all sounds like it could be Spencer quotes.

Jez isn’t saying anything that isn’t based on what MS’s own executives have heavily hinted at.

Exactly. The foreshadowing has been there for some out there for some time but a lot of folks, particularly on twiter, are trying hard to ignore it. Phil Spencer knows a lot of the decisions he is having to make are not going to be popular with his diehard fanbase. Putting these hints out are designed to lessen the shock when it all is revealed. Jez is being coy because he is reading the same tea leaves we are, but also hiding behind this "just my opinion" at the same time because he is getting a lot of shit for it. To me, he should show some backbone and stick to his guns and say "this is what is coming whether you like it or not".
 
I am not sure why there is so much talk about Steam, I reckon we are just talking about a premium Xbox.
There will be no games optimized for it. There would not be enough people buying the hardware, thus the only chance third party games can run on it is if it runs the PC version of the games.

We have had decades to talk about this; extreme premium consoles don't work because they don't have the ecosystem size to get third party games onboard. The 2nd stupid idea to support the original stupid idea was to have an alternative cheap console to make the high power console pointless, the now real Series S. An idea that was around for a decade from my last count. I am too tired to dig up all the past posts in search histories.

Your premium Xbox would not have games built for it, thus it will never be as good as you want it to be. And you would waste all that money without the freedom of a real PC.
 

King Dazzar

Member
Too many people use a PC daily for work and literally its the last thing they want to come home and mess with to game on (like my son)

I know he would pay a lot of money for an enclosed PC that is an Xbox experience, push the button on the controller and go

In fact have seen a few here say the same thing.

Question is how big is that market?
I totally agree. Thats my point. Its how blurred the lines are with what they do with this new hybrid OS/UI. If you're still going to be playing around behind the primary UI to get Steam working etc, then you're moving away from the simplicity of a console push button and go surely... and moving closer to the likes of Steam Big Picture.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
So it's Spencer's fantasy at the moment. In that scenario, what's the advantage for Valve? Especially now when they have their own hardware. Just another point of entry?
If it has the ability to run Windows then Vakve has nothing to do with it.

If it’s Xbox OS only Valve won’t touch it. Spencer could be envisioning a more closed “3rd party store” system like what Apple is doing with iOS which would be hilariously pointless and I am not sure anyone would actually release anything.
 
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Topher

Identifies as young
Ah OK, interesting take. In which case to me, what's the advantage between that and a hand built PC, which loads up direct into Steam Big Picture? If its just an overlay, with an accessible windows sat behind. Why bother with Xbox? Just build your own PC and use Steam as is. I assumed, by the sounds of it wrongly, that the Ui and hardware would all still be walled. Yeah, good luck with all that...

I'd say the appeal is a small form factor PC that works well as an under-the-tv console. You can build an ITX PC, but you are not going to be able to buy an APU that the Xbox has. The latest APUs available on the market have about 2/3 the GPU capabilities that Xbox has. So an ITX will have to have a dedicated GPU and it is going to run hotter and louder and won't work as well in confined spaces. For the PC gamer, you don't see a lot of pre-built ITX PCs around. They are just more expensive to make. So if Microsoft can offer something like the XSX but with Windows then I think there will be a good bit of interest on the PC side. We have to remember that the most popular specs on Steam are pretty much right in line with PS5 and XSX.
 

hinch7

Member
I dunno.

If Halo, Starfield, Redfall, Forza (just to start a list) would have been real bangers Gamepass numbers might have really jumped

I personally think their big name IPs coming up short is hurting them more
True, but also the business model is broken. There's no incentive for consumers buy your games when they can just subscribe for a month and dip out whenever they want. And then MS having to foot the bill for millions and years of development per game. And yeah the general quality of releases have been rather lackluster for big names like Bethesda. If Starfield and Halo delivered they could've garnered more attention and subs perhaps.

But really they needed that, on top of something like TES out in the first couple years of launch. Some new, fresh IP's or games like (Helldivers 2) and perhaps other games like Doom to fill in the gaps. The pandemic did help in the initial years as well as the chip shortage and demand in those times. But they failed to capitalize on the momentum.
 
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King Dazzar

Member
I'd say the appeal is a small form factor PC that works well as an under-the-tv console. You can build an ITX PC, but you are not going to be able to buy an APU that the Xbox has. The latest APUs available on the market have about 2/3 the GPU capabilities that Xbox has. So an ITX will have to have a dedicated GPU and it is going to run hotter and louder and won't work as well in confined spaces. For the PC gamer, you don't see a lot of pre-built ITX PCs around. They are just more expensive to make. So if Microsoft can offer something like the XSX but with Windows then I think there will be a good bit of interest on the PC side. We have to remember that the most popular specs on Steam are pretty much right in line with PS5 and XSX.
lol So when its form factor is shown to be this:
PZbaenl.jpeg
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
His clarification says it will be more "steam deck-like" which I agree with. In my mind, that means having a default UI like Steam that gives it the console experience but behind the scenes it just runs Windows which allows for installing whatever you want. I do not think Steam will be integrated into a closed system because Gabe Newell has always been an advocate of open platforms and I doubt he would allow that. But you could be right and the OS will integrate itch.io and/or EGS as those are the stores Phil Spencer mentioned. If that is the case then they might as well not even bother. If they are trying to bring in PC gamers to Xbox hardware, it is Steam or nothing.
  • If Xbox handheld is confined like a console, it is no longer a viable option for folks interested in PC gaming (which is a way bigger audience than Xbox gamers).
  • If Xbox handheld is Windows-based and open, then it is no longer a console (it no longer appeals to console gamers who want the simplicity), and Xbox also loses their store revenue, as most people will prefer Steam over Windows/Xbox store anyway.
At that point, why wouldn't people just buy a Steam Deck / Steam Deck 2.
  • Xbox doesn't have the brand power / awareness that Steam Deck has. So Steam's HW will be more popular anyway.
  • Xbox wouldn't follow the loss leading position anymore. Steam easily can and will. They will use Steam Deck as an entry point and then make their money with their software sales.
  • Consequently, Xbox's handheld will be more expensive than a Steam Deck.
  • And they can't make Xbox handheld significantly more powerful than a Steam Deck 2 anyway because of already high costs and the fact that they will need to price it somewhat competitively for the market.
This is looking more and more like a huge misstep and a recipe for failure.
 
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I think someone on twitter brought up a good point. If they allow sideloading of apps on the Xbox it's going to open Xbox and the network to hackers.
 
I expect that the way they keep backwards/forwards compatibility with your digital library is to turn Xbox into a OS that can be installed or sideloaded on devices. This works perfectly because all of their games are already running in a virtual machine layer anyways. This will allow them to spin up cloud gaming on all kinds of hardware instead of console specific hardware. They will likely simplify their licensing to become more like a single Steam store. In the short term I would expect more niche hardware to come out, but they are going to have to get serious about making the Xbox launcher/OS/store/ecosystem better in order to actually compete with Steam if they want to keep making that sweet cash off of people buying other devs games on their platform.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Too many people use a PC daily for work and literally its the last thing they want to come home and mess with to game on (like my son)

I know he would pay a lot of money for an enclosed PC that is an Xbox experience, push the button on the controller and go

In fact have seen a few here say the same thing.

Question is how big is that market?
Are they going to allow you to go to “Dev Options” and side load any Win app? Then fairly decent sized.

If this is locked, it’s very niche as PC users won’t come over without Steam and PS users have a PS5/Pro that will play the same games.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Are they going to allow you to go to “Dev Options” and side load any Win app? Then fairly decent sized.

If this is locked, it’s very niche as PC users won’t come over without Steam and PS users have a PS5/Pro that will play the same games.
I don't know this honestly
 
Are they gonna stay silent on all their first party games being actively in development for PS5 right up until these titles launch, perhaps just announcing a month before (like the first batch we got)? This is the most underhanded way to proceed so I'm guessing it's what they'll do.

But the writing is on the wall.
 

Darsxx82

Member
  • If Xbox handheld is confined like a console, it is no longer a viable option for folks interested in PC gaming (which is a way bigger audience than Xbox gamers).

I agree. That option certainly does not have the best perspective. But not because it would not attract PC players, the problem would be more in the difficulty of ensuring support by publishers and 3rd party Studios. That support would depend on sales because it would require ad hoc versions. In other words, it should be a 20+ million product and I don't think MS is thinking about that kind of success.
The advantage of a Windows handlead vs a tradicional console is that support is simple and by default because developers do not need to create ad hoc versions. There is no risk of your investment becoming a paperweight because support and usefulness are assured.
  • If Xbox handheld is Windows-based and open, then it is no longer a console (it no longer appeals to console gamers who want the simplicity), and Xbox also loses their store revenue, as most people will prefer Steam over Windows/Xbox store anyway.

The line between what is a console and a PC today is very thin. In fact, it is practically only in the OS itself that organizes and facilitates the execution of games.

If MS is capable of offering a default Xbox OS that makes you feel like you're playing your XSeries... I don't know how it was going to put the console player disgusted by default
If it is Windows based and allows the freedom to use the hardware as desired.... I don't know what would set back the PC user.🤷🏻
Many console only users have bought a Steam Deck🤷🏻

Different stores and will people choose Steam?? There MS will have to be seen ensuring optimized versions for games under the Xbox OS and making it the preferable version. If not?? Well, the fact of having Xbox/Windows hardware on the market where part of its users buy in the Xbox Store and subscribe to Gamepass will already be an achievement.

That is, in the end the importance will be in the quality and performance of the hardware, price and catalogue support.
At that point, why wouldn't people just buy a Steam Deck / Steam Deck 2.
  • Xbox doesn't have the brand power / awareness that Steam Deck has. So Steam's HW will be more popular anyway.

Xbox even today is a brand with a lot of power. From the hand of MS and its money with even more potential. Imagine that just a few months ago you here were telling us about the danger of an XBOX monopoly for these reasons 🤷🏻
  • Xbox wouldn't follow the loss leading position anymore. Steam easily can and will. They will use Steam Deck as an entry point and then make their money with their software sales.
  • Consequently, Xbox's handheld will be more expensive than a Steam Deck.
  • And they can't make Xbox handheld significantly more powerful than a Steam Deck 2 anyway because of already high costs and the fact that they will need to price it somewhat competitively for the market.
How can you state all that so categorically? it is not that SteamDeck is also the most powerful handlead on the market... 🙃
MS has the potential to offer the handlead hardware with the best features/price. In fact, I think that if there is something that everyone would never rule out or undervalue, it is the potential of MS/Xbox to offer high-performance hardware.

On the other hand, as I said. I don't think MS is seeing a mass product. Simply a new product line and differentiated from the typical generational console business. Continuous hardware updates to the type of current handleads. If ASUS, Lenovo etc can, why not MS?🤔


This is looking more and more like a huge misstep and a recipe for failure.
What is clear is that if it is for you, all hope that MS does not have the temptation to launch more consoles or even hardware to play.....😂😂

Come on, then your only proposal is for MS to do nothing?. After reading to you in another thread that MS is going start to sell its entire gaming business in a couple of years because without a console or its own hardware/ecosistem it will not be interested in continuing in the market... well, in reality everything converges.🙃

It's as easy as all those points that you point out can be seen very differently if you try for a minimum of neutrality. At least to be able to see situations where there is a possibility that there is room for success, or rather, the degree of success they seek.

Each user is a world. Imagine defending these years that the PC is a better alternative than an Xbox and suddenly differentiating console vs PC users as the sole and definitive reason for a product to be destined to fail.
 
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Mr.ODST

Member
Handheld Xbox would probably be the right step with their "ecosystem" I know loads of people who have moved to PC because of Handheld / PC eco, most people bought the ASUS ROG Ally because it can run Xbox Game Pass games natively
 

demigod

Member
I am forming an opinion of what is happening at Xbox...

Specifically, Phil Spencer.

I am now of the opinion that it is 100% true that Phil is the reason Xbox survived this long. That without Phil, Xbox would already have been dismantled two generations ago. Phil truly wanted Xbox as a console platform to succeed.

However, what we have seen here is that despite Phil's desire to succeed, he is terrible at the job. The most important being he has no idea what a bad game looks like and couldn't maintain quality. He has the heart of a great Console manager, but he doesn't have the skills.

The problem here, is that Phil is the only person in charge who is even remotely interested in an Xbox Console. You can't replace Phil because Phil is the only one who keeps the lights on. So Phil became the common denominator in the last two gaming generations, and all the failures fall on his head.

Phil is the wrong person for the job, but Phil is also the ONLY person for the job. So Xbox is now stuck where it is. Unable to improve.
Even a monkey could run xbox better than Phil.
 
I'm not really big on the console wars. I'm admittedly a Sony fan, but I've enjoyed my time with Xbox up until the Xbox One days.

I felt like they really just never recovered from the Mattrick and Xbox One debacle, which really dealt a lot of damage to them.

I'm interested to see where they go from here, but I'm curious how this all shakes out. I've always felt that once you see someone like Marcus Fenix or Master Chief on a Sony/Nintendo system, most folks would assume you've moved on from consoles and are now a third party publisher.

In my opinion(and I could be wrong depending how this goes) there's no real..going back from that and regaining validity as a hardware maker, regardless of what it is.

Perception is reality and I feel like a great deal of people, not just the "internet bubble"(here, etc) would perceive you've pulled a Sega and that's it. That's the reality of it.

But again, I could be wrong.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Are they gonna stay silent on all their first party games being actively in development for PS5 right up until these titles launch, perhaps just announcing a month before (like the first batch we got)? This is the most underhanded way to proceed so I'm guessing it's what they'll do.

But the writing is on the wall.
This is foreplay right now. They will take it slowly, and it'll be some time before they go all in, to minimize the pain.

Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Starfield announcement is going to do some damage lol. That will come within a few months. In fact we'll get more and more leaks of different titles.
I think Halo will be the 'biggest' one, just because of its association with the Xbox brand. That'll be the end of all speculations and possibilities otherwise.
 

T-0800

Member
My favourite Xbox game of the last 10 years is Sea of Thieves and I now own that on PS5. I don't count MCC as it is a collection of old games. Old games I'll buy again if they release them on PS5.

just do it GIF
 
Xbox has lost Timdog



Has anyone checked the temperature in hell!

Don’t let him do to the PlayStation community what he did to elements of the Xbox community. His ego is already ridiculous.
Is it possible Timdog is a double agent sent by Phil to get into PS gaming parties to find out the true status of a bloodborne remaster.
 
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Pelta88

Member
It seems like Microsofts strategy for PS games is the same strategy Sony has for their PC games.

Not releasing their single player games on other platforms day 1( they need some reason to own an Xbox) they'll eventually release on PS5 months to years later

Not with Satya Nadella at the helm.

Those games will be day and date as soon as contractual stipulations permit. Check Nadella’s statements during MS’ earrings call. He doesn’t believe in the XB platform. It’ll be Gears, Forza, and Halo ports. Then day and date.
 
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