balls of snow
Member
Cloud is my guess.
JezC:EU may also force console companies to open up their platforms. Microsoft would be there day one. But Sony isn't just going to let them do that.
Gojiira
Member
Sorry but nothing gives the US or the EU the right to dictate how Japanese companies operate, thats the point.NonsenseHow you even write this with a straight face? You're joking right? Did you forget that the UK nearly stopped Microsoft from making a 70 billion acquisition? Every company has to abide to the law of any country it sells in
The only company that will benefit from it is Microsoft, and just like you mentioned with the UK almost preventing the ABK acquisition it will come down to competition, MS will have a hugely unfair advantage against Sony and Nintendo so even in that regard the EU etc cant force them to open up their systems.
So yeah Japan wont just roll over and have two of its protected companies damaged because of a few greedy assholes….Not that complicated mate
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Consoles are not lifestyle devices. They aren't general computing systems and aren't requirements to function normally in society. Not to mention, they are not the only devices you need to access games, as you have computers, tablets, smartphones, TVs, and the internet. Almost all of which (aside from tablets) being higher priority than consoles in requirements to live a normal modern life and access certain functions very specific to them.
The EU will fail to make consoles open up like these other devices because the entire business model is significantly different, and they are purpose-built devices for a specific niche. The market being the size it is does not change this because the majority of the market revenue is made from devices aside consoles. I know Microsoft are praying and hoping, possibly lobbying and bribing, to convince the EU to place consoles in a similar category. I'm sure that's what shills like Jez Corden want. But this is one battle they will not win.
Well, at least in a just world. If by some monumentally retarded stroke of luck the EU decide to fuk over the entire console gaming market and make that ruling, then the industry as we know it is dead, and everyone can point their finger directly at Microsoft and their endless pursuit of greed, even if it means being a parasite off other platforms that earned their way to success and Microsoft could only hope to replicate in a last-ditch effort with brute force (throwing tons of money around). Even if it means doing away with what little dignity remains, and needing to rig the entire market through imbecilic government-financed regulatory bodies to get their W at the expense of literally everyone and everything else.
My respect for Microsoft is already at an all-time low after the shenanigans to push the ABK deal through. Knowing they'd orchestrate a market-destroying decision just to grow their revenue through purely inorganic means would obliterate what little respect remains.
We'll see what the EU tries doing. That MS plant who was going to become a member pulled out of the process for various reasons, one I'm assuming being a conflict of interest, so maybe there is hope that the EC isn't completely compromised just for the vanity of lining their own pockets.
But again, we'll see what happens. The Apple and Google stuff are another matter; even if I think it somewhat underplays the benefit of closed ecosystems on Apple devices consider Apple spend a massive amount of R&D and production costs in making their products, so I can see justification in how they lock things down to the App Store. But try pushing that same line in the gaming space and, man, those folks are not gonna like what I have to say, or how it's said.
I'll just leave it at that.
"Forced to", in the sense that EA and Ubi don't have a console directly competing with PlayStation, so they aren't selling 3P games through their service and in the case of EA's, you simply get 10-hour trails with the sub. Maybe sentiments change going forward, but for those reasons I don't think Sony has a problem arranging deals with those services.
What Jez is thinking could happen, is that bodies like the EC force platforms like PlayStation to accept services like Game Pass on them in full, almost like completely alternative store fronts, but the conflict of interest comes from the fact that Microsoft is still manufacturing & selling a direct competing console in the form of Xbox. If Microsoft get their way (and I think that lawsuit currently pressed against Sony is part of this, i.e a company like MS probably want Sony to lose that case even if they may or may not have direct involvement in supplying the suing side, because a win there opens up a potential win here), they basically get to lure PS customers to Game Pass and undermine the whole purpose of how the traditional console business model has successfully operated for decades.
Microsoft want to have their cake and eat it, too, regardless if it destabilizes the entire market or an industry people like Phil Spencer supposedly say they love. When, if they really wanted Game Pass on platforms like PlayStation or Nintendo, all they have to do is discontinue Xbox console hardware (that doesn't even mean stop making Xbox gaming hardware, BTW, just make it more like a PC hardware & software/OS-wise and in how you position it for sale).
But Microsoft don't want to make a compromise, so they're probably hoping regulatory bodies force competitors into a compromise and Microsoft sweeps in to reap the benefits afterwards.
The EU will fail to make consoles open up like these other devices because the entire business model is significantly different, and they are purpose-built devices for a specific niche. The market being the size it is does not change this because the majority of the market revenue is made from devices aside consoles. I know Microsoft are praying and hoping, possibly lobbying and bribing, to convince the EU to place consoles in a similar category. I'm sure that's what shills like Jez Corden want. But this is one battle they will not win.
Well, at least in a just world. If by some monumentally retarded stroke of luck the EU decide to fuk over the entire console gaming market and make that ruling, then the industry as we know it is dead, and everyone can point their finger directly at Microsoft and their endless pursuit of greed, even if it means being a parasite off other platforms that earned their way to success and Microsoft could only hope to replicate in a last-ditch effort with brute force (throwing tons of money around). Even if it means doing away with what little dignity remains, and needing to rig the entire market through imbecilic government-financed regulatory bodies to get their W at the expense of literally everyone and everything else.
My respect for Microsoft is already at an all-time low after the shenanigans to push the ABK deal through. Knowing they'd orchestrate a market-destroying decision just to grow their revenue through purely inorganic means would obliterate what little respect remains.
We'll see what the EU tries doing. That MS plant who was going to become a member pulled out of the process for various reasons, one I'm assuming being a conflict of interest, so maybe there is hope that the EC isn't completely compromised just for the vanity of lining their own pockets.
But again, we'll see what happens. The Apple and Google stuff are another matter; even if I think it somewhat underplays the benefit of closed ecosystems on Apple devices consider Apple spend a massive amount of R&D and production costs in making their products, so I can see justification in how they lock things down to the App Store. But try pushing that same line in the gaming space and, man, those folks are not gonna like what I have to say, or how it's said.
I'll just leave it at that.
"Forced to", in the sense that EA and Ubi don't have a console directly competing with PlayStation, so they aren't selling 3P games through their service and in the case of EA's, you simply get 10-hour trails with the sub. Maybe sentiments change going forward, but for those reasons I don't think Sony has a problem arranging deals with those services.
What Jez is thinking could happen, is that bodies like the EC force platforms like PlayStation to accept services like Game Pass on them in full, almost like completely alternative store fronts, but the conflict of interest comes from the fact that Microsoft is still manufacturing & selling a direct competing console in the form of Xbox. If Microsoft get their way (and I think that lawsuit currently pressed against Sony is part of this, i.e a company like MS probably want Sony to lose that case even if they may or may not have direct involvement in supplying the suing side, because a win there opens up a potential win here), they basically get to lure PS customers to Game Pass and undermine the whole purpose of how the traditional console business model has successfully operated for decades.
Microsoft want to have their cake and eat it, too, regardless if it destabilizes the entire market or an industry people like Phil Spencer supposedly say they love. When, if they really wanted Game Pass on platforms like PlayStation or Nintendo, all they have to do is discontinue Xbox console hardware (that doesn't even mean stop making Xbox gaming hardware, BTW, just make it more like a PC hardware & software/OS-wise and in how you position it for sale).
But Microsoft don't want to make a compromise, so they're probably hoping regulatory bodies force competitors into a compromise and Microsoft sweeps in to reap the benefits afterwards.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Perhaps, but I think the fact that Gabe Newell isn't a greedy SOB and doesn't have stockholders to answer to is a factor.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
You mean 3P being able to release their games on platforms like PlayStation without paying a licensing fee? That's partly what caused the gaming market to crash back in the 2600 days.
I can't believe regulators are so stupid as to not see the parallels, or that Microsoft is so unabashed in pursuit of money (at the expense of everyone else), that they're willing to risk making that happen all over again.
They manufactured that "demand" through anticompetitive practices; it's in their corporate DNA if we're being blunt. And if they are able to convince the EC to force other consoles to open up in full, it'll be just another anticompetitive manipulation by a company like Microsoft, in all but name. Instead of doing it themselves, they'd "coerce" outside regulatory & other governmental bodies to do it for them.
I'm sure they aren't the only company that'd want this, but they are the only one of their size who seemingly would REALLY want this across consoles & mobile (ironically the two sectors under threat of being forced to open up). The only two massive areas where Microsoft's own efforts have been mostly abject failures.
So if you can't compete fair & square...rig the market. Or have others in designated positions do it for you. That seems to be the strategy.
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midnightAI
Member
He's right though, If MS lose money on every XBox sold (as do most console manufacturers at the start, or at least break even) then you make money on software sales, take that away completely by allowing other marketplaces on your console then why bother making one at all? For MS, I guess that's fine, they are going in that direction anyway, but for Sony/Nintendo that's the death of their console business.Damn dude, who shat in your coffee in the morning
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Allowing other marketplaces does not eliminate the 30% cut the console makers would get for every sale, but it would definitely open up more options for the end user.
But this is all speculation at this point, and who knows what the EU will decide, if at all
twilo99
Member
The same people who were screaming that the Activision deal was bad for consumers are the same who desperately support the walled garden situation.
The level of cognitive dissonance required for that scenario is quite high…
But of course this doesn't concern just PlayStation, they would all have to do it, which is the best part..
The level of cognitive dissonance required for that scenario is quite high…
But of course this doesn't concern just PlayStation, they would all have to do it, which is the best part..
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Really BAD 3p games.
But I noticed it's not crashing the Nintendo Switch. That store is chock full of bad 3p games and the market isn't crashing this time.
1980's was a different way of living.
Apple and European laws have set the precedent for this happening on console.
Razorblade model is a concept that now has to be fought to exist rather than something consumers actively want.
Only the console warriors are vocal on this matter. Protect the device at all costs mentality.
I would hope that gamers would look at their wallets instead of a logo. Makes the world a more friendly place to interact with.
And you get to keep your precious device either way.
twilo99
Member
Tell that to the American tech giants who have been at the mercy of EU regulators for decades now, what makes you think Japanese companies are exempt?
Zathalus
Member
I was referring to Azure and Office. Anticompetitive practices for both is rather thin on the ground.
You don't become a multi trillion dollar company if nobody wanted what you sell.
twilo99
Member
Well said. I'm sure you are not surprised?
It's very entertaining to watch them all get so fired up..
reinking
Gold Member
I am. If consoles are forced to open their markets be prepared for PC priced consoles and the console market to eventually vaporize. It is funny that those against it are considered console warriors while those for it seem to be posters of a certain group. For crying out loud, the OP link is to one of the biggest (paid) console warriors there is.
I have gotten old enough, and I pc game enough, that even if the console space dries up I will be good. I just hate to see it.
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Topher
Identifies as young
That can be applied both ways. Suddenly the "same people" who were fervently against regulators in the Activision deal are pro-regulators when it comes to dictating a business model. Right?
No, I don't really buy that nonsense as it is just absurd generalizations used to try and equate two different scenarios.
But answer this: are you in favor of breaking down this "walled garden situation" even if it means the end of consoles?
lol.....you are plenty fired up yourself.
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NonPhixion
Member
I fail to see how this will be better for consumers? Platform holders will make less software revenue and will increase the prices of their hardware. Software only companies are quite aware that we are all conditioned to pay current market prices for software. They will not decrease the cost of their software now that they don't have to share a percentage of that revenue. They will just be happy to increase their revenue. You're dumb as fuck if you think this will positively benefit us.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Both things can be simultaneously true, for a multitude of reasons. The ABK deal sets a questionable precedent in market consolidation, which can destabilize the 3P market and consolidate an enormous amount of IP and tech wealth to a tiny segment of players with the deepest pockets. Not to mention, that simply increase the resource strain on the buyers, who may end up cutting corners to maximize profit margins to recoup spending costs, which can result in lower quality and sales and directly hurts overall market revenue growth.
Walled gardens aren't inherently good or bad, but knowing certain companies that have otherwise failed with their own walled gardens through their own miscalculations and bad management, are the most proactive in wanting more successful competitors to open up their ecosystems so failures can backdoor their way in and siphon away hard-earned customers and revenue, should never be celebrated. That is not a change from fair competition; it's a change desired by failures in fair competitive markets who want equity with proven winners, in some cases winners with much less money & resources to their name.
Like I said, both things can be true for their own reasons. In an ideal world, M&As like the ABK deal would be no cause for concern and closed platforms opening up their ecosystems would have no ulterior motives beneath the surface. But that's not what we're dealing with and some of the companies making these pushes are among the largest in the entire world, usually with histories of questionable, anticompetitive market practices in other fields. If it's that deeply rooted in them, chances are they have never fully moved away from that style and are simply adapting it, giving it a facelift for modern day.
Again, at what cost? What circumstances and forces are ushering this change about? What players are manipulating sentiments and lobbying for these types of changes, and what is their presence in these markets that might see change?
People like to claim this is all about being pro-consumer but that's just a facade. It's the corporations who have the most to gain, not customers, it has ALWAYS been that way. They just tug on emotional heartstrings with positive PR-sounding talking points to mask what's being done BTS to manipulate dynamics in the market to their favor, at the expense of all competitors.
Ironically, while skipping right past the actual consumers (else they'd see more favorable market results simply by providing a more competitive and desirable product that customers choose to buy over rival offerings).
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Opening up consoles so Microsoft can stick Game Pass on PlayStation and Nintendo and not pay any royalties??
Oh man, the meltdowns.
Oh man, the meltdowns.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Wrong, on so many levels.
Its about more than just the logo. How do you guarantee interoperability if not by using a shared set of standards? Which then begs the question who controls said standards and what's there to prevent whomever has that power from abusing their market position?
There are simple, obvious issues particular to gaming. For example, button mapping and identification. Or trophy and achievement tracking on the back end.
Its an immense can of worms, and its an especially toxic can of worms because at its very core it all leads back to a purely digital licensing model for permissions. Sure, you can play your GamePass games on any screen, but if you fall foul of their T+C's on any of those screens, they have the right to take away everything from you, on every platform!
Never forget, the convenience comes at a price. The consumer being increasingly dependent on staying in the good graces of the party administrating those digital permissions and licenses. That's a logo you don't get to opt out of.
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twilo99
Member
They would all be able to stick it in each other.. one big console orgy with Steam being the fluffer
It could have been the case if CMA didn't whine over entertainment with goalposts, which then resulted in EU accepting the deal as long they would license the catalog for any cloud service for 10 years.
It doesn't even need to be forced on cellphones, if you need X software that is unavailable for Y system, then the employer would have given to you or be mandated to supply work hardware.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
This could end the console wars.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It'd also kill the console industry. So, uh...nah.
I don't even want to think about the CMA right now. That heel turn in the 11th hour with them sniveling, suckering up to help MS pass the deal was so embarrassing. The CTA (or is it CAT?) person presiding over that made it bearable to some degree, at least.
Kerotan
Member
Apple in terms of unit sales make up a small % of the European market. Most people don't use apple. When it comes to console gaming 90% are Nintendo or PlayStation.
The Pleasure
Gold Member
You already accepted Phil inside you. What's another Phil?
twilo99
Member
One can dream..
ChorizoPicozo
Member
but what about "competition"?
twilo99
Member
The EU has been fine with that set up for decades
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Oh man, the wet dreams.
Kerotan
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
Those options are available to you right now. Time to sell that console and embrace PC, right?
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Lets say this happens and Consoles are forced to allow stores.
Would Microsoft suddenly port all the 3rd party games I bought on Xbox over to PC?
Would it only be for new games after the law in place?
GTA 6 would have to launch on PC at the same time as consoles?
Thanks EU
Would Microsoft suddenly port all the 3rd party games I bought on Xbox over to PC?
Would it only be for new games after the law in place?
GTA 6 would have to launch on PC at the same time as consoles?
Thanks EU
Fabieter
Member
Being able to strongarm another state is "been at the mercy". Lol!
Topher
Identifies as young
Why would opening up consoles result in any of that?
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I'm on hopium here don't kill my buzz.
Topher
Identifies as young
lughnasadh123
Member
Cool for something for people to fight about on a weekend while never having a chance to actually happen.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Phil already laid out how making great games wouldn't change their 3rd place position he also expressed having a plan to win before the generation started so of course they'll resort to changing the industry if it means they'll be on top damn the consequences they'd rather see the industry crash and burn if they can't be number 1 they have enough money to build it back up
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Fabieter
Member
I would like it more if they're also on consoles. Not really a controversial take.
Would you also like to pay double for your console? There is no way the industry stays the same with just a few more options for the consumer.
Topher
Identifies as young
I would like it more if they're also on consoles
You do realize what subsidizes those consoles, right?
You don't buy a console if that's what you want. It's ludicrous to expect gamepass on Sony.
It's absolutely mind boggling that we're at a point where xbox fans are wanting laws to be passed that help their favourite brand, what the fuck is happening here.
When there were posts saying Bethesda/ABK games would be on PS you and others laughed, yet here you are begging for the exact same thing in the opposite direction.
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