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[cubicle47b]

They're not matching on first name and last name only or almost everyone would identified. Matching on first name, last name, and date of birth is still remarkably dumb.

edit: You wouldn't get 7 million matches of first name, last name, and date of birth either. Sometimes the date of birth and last 4 digits of the SSN are ignored? It doesn't account for lapsed voters? The article is frustrating. I want to see the data.

 

[Poodlestrike]

So how's this not completely illegal? They are accusing millions of people of a serious crime without any substantial proof, and just before the election.

It probably is illegal. The problem is that they implemented it too close to election day for judicial action to do any good. The courts can halt the purge (maybe), but good luck getting everyone added back on in time.

 

[Booshka]

Republicans are viciously desperate.

 

[Shake Appeal]

good thing al jazeera is doing some real journalism while cnn and other news channels are too busy with ebola. hopefully other journalist follow up and start spreading this information to other viewers.

Ebola (or the perception of the President's handling of it) is going to have a far greater impact on these midterms than this story.

 

[DizzyCrow]

Well some of them have sued Georgia sos and the Kansas sos might get sued soon. But the court is not going to get it resolved by election next week. It will drag out for months. There is only so much they can do. Whereas you on the otherhand must call the reps, inform friends and family and create a ruckus about it.

Thanks, actually I'm not (north)american but I'm baffled by the amount of shit minorities get there.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

How fucking stupid do you have to be to create a list of fraudsters that ignores middle names and titles like jr and sr. You will get massive amounts of so called "duplicate" votes.

Not to defend this (I still have a lot to read,) but one rationale for ignoring middle names and name suffixes is that they may not be recorded uniformly. I might try to register as "Squirrel Massiveattack Killer III," but one state might just record it as "Squirrel M Killer" while another as "Squirrel M. Killer III," and another as "Squirrel Massiveattack Killer III," sometimes even the same state might handle those differently depending on the data entry process.

A couple of questions I have that might be answered in the article:

• Why does the article say it matches on only first and last name while the company says it matches on first name, last name, and date of birth?
• If middle only matches on "not a non-match," how are "Robert Dewey Cox" and "Robert Glen Cox" not a non-match?
• Wouldn't matching on SSN reduce the false positives? (Of course, that probably not the goal...)
• How is ethnicity determined? The voter files I'm familiar with (which are a very small subset of all voter files) don't include ethnicity data. Do other states have ethnicity data in their voter files? If they're just using the predominant ethnicity for surnames, what's their methodology for accounting for cross-ethnic surnames (e.g. Jackson?)
• If the program is only getting double voters, how are inactive voter registrations getting matched?
• Was there any manual review of matches before the registrations were stricken, or was the entire process automated?

I will read the article which will likely answer most, if not all, of those questions, but I did want to note that list maintenance (including purging duplicate data) is not inherently biasing, just as list caging (another topic that is usually assumed to be racist) isn't. It's a tool that can be used to disenfranchise, but there are valid reasons to purge lists.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

It probably is illegal. The problem is that they implemented it too close to election day for judicial action to do any good. The courts can halt the purge (maybe), but good luck getting everyone added back on in time.

Actually, since it's so close to the election, that might be a good reason for a court to stay the purge. As the voter ID "decisions" in WI and TX show, the election machinery is already in motion and changing it now (by removing large numbers of registered voters who believe they are properly registered) should be improper.

 

[Rest]

Funny the only way Republicans can stay in power is by stealing elections (puring, IDs, redistricting, etc). Vile.

You can't thrown redistricting in there, Democrats do it too.

 

[AndyD]

Actually, since it's so close to the election, that might be a good reason for a court to stay the purge. As the voter ID "decisions" in WI and TX show, the election machinery is already in motion and changing it now (by removing large numbers of registered voters who believe they are properly registered) should be improper.

It might be too late. In GA it seems tens of thousands were already purged? Or never added in a "pre-purge" purge.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

By Greg Palast for Al Jazeera America

Oh this guy, I should have fucking known. Such a partisan hack. I trust him about as much as I trust Rush Limbaugh.

 

[Metaphoreus]

So, clearly the list is flawed. But is anything actually being done with the names on the list? Have any of the false matches resulted in eligible voters being denied the right to vote? Or are the potential matches subjected to further scrutiny before official action is taken against the persons identified?

 

[KingGondo]

Oh this guy, I should have fucking known. Such a partisan hack. I trust him about as much as I trust Rush Limbaugh.

Let's discuss the findings of the article, not who wrote it.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

[*]How is ethnicity determined?

Georgia's voter registration form collects it. Some other states also do it, presumably.

 

[Htown]

yet people still think this is about the integrity of the voting process and not rigging the elections for Republicans by disenfranchising minorities

okay, whatever

keep those eyes shut and those fingers in those ears, don't want to see or hear somebody play the race card. just watch out for that waxy buildup

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Let's discuss the findings of the article, not who wrote it.

On a forum where certain news outlets are completely barred from being linked to due to their shoddy reporting and where Fox is mocked even for local coverage or simply factual reporting, you're going to tell me not to talk about the clearly biased and partisan leanings of a reporter? Palast has a history of misrepresenting innocent things to make the Republican party look bad.

Palast is a case where the source does matter.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

On a forum where certain news outlets are completely barred from being linked to due to their shoddy reporting and where Fox is mocked even for local coverage or simply factual reporting, you're going to tell me not to talk about the clearly biased and partisan leanings of a reporter? Palast has a history of misrepresenting innocent things to make the Republican party look bad.

Palast is a case where the source does matter.

Can we in turn discuss your agenda, when you made a post in this thread where you admitted to not having read the article and then immediately want to turn your attention away from the data contained therein?

 

[InvaderZimmer]

Well, my blood is boiling.



How did we already get to "both sides are bad!"?

ACA is badly written, this law is badly written. It's like no one has written a decent law without some kind of nasty flaw in a long while.

 

[RustyNails]

Oh this guy, I should have fucking known. Such a partisan hack. I trust him about as much as I trust Rush Limbaugh.

What are you doing squirrel. Are you shooting the messenger?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Oh and Jim Crow never really left. He went to college and got a degree and now works inside the system

I've said this before, but I got one of the most eye opening revelations about racism from a fucking fighting game stream chat on Twitch:

"Lol. Racism never went anywhere. They just perfected it."

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Can we in turn discuss your agenda, when you made a post in this thread where you admitted to not having read the article and then immediately want to turn your attention away from the data contained therein?

Sure, my agenda is that I am against improperly removing people from voter rolls and for properly maintaining accurate voter registration lists.

I was responding to what had been quoted in the OP, snippets which appeared to leave out key information. As I'm reading the article, I'm beginning to think that's an issue with the article author and not the OP author.

What are you doing squirrel. Are you shooting the messenger?

This is a messenger that deserves to be shot (this is just continuing the metaphor and not an actual threat.) He is a blatantly biased and muckraking journalist. You should trust him as much as you trust Rush Limbaugh.

 

[Damaniel]

On a forum where certain news outlets are completely barred from being linked to due to their shoddy reporting and where Fox is mocked even for local coverage or simply factual reporting, you're going to tell me not to talk about the clearly biased and partisan leanings of a reporter? Palast has a history of misrepresenting innocent things to make the Republican party look bad.

Palast is a case where the source does matter.

You don't need to selectively quote to make Republicans look bad. Everything they say makes them look bad. (And Fox News is so blatantly partisan that they shouldn't be allowed as a primary source about anything political (and probably not for anything that isn't, either - their agenda leaks out everywhere).

You might not like the message in the story, but you can hardly blame the messenger (at least you haven't tried tying the website to terrorism because of the obvious link to the Middle East, which is usually what I see anti-Al Jazeera people do). Blame the people (Republicans) who have decided that minorities shouldn't have the right to vote and are doing everything in their power to disenfranchise people who think (and look) differently than they do.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Sure, my agenda is that I am against improperly removing people from voter rolls and for properly maintaining accurate voter registration lists.

So you're unconcerned that in both intent and implementation Crosscheck is overwhelmingly providing the former result and only paying lip service to the latter? Because of the byline?

Crosscheck instructs each participating state to send a postcard or letter to suspected double voters, requiring them to restate and verify their name and address, sign the card and return it.

This is a serious corrosion of voting rights if people have to check their mail for a slip of paper that says 'hey fill this out and mail it back if you don't want to lose your right to vote!'

 

[m3k]

Jesus... That is appalling

 

[Squirrel Killer]

So you're unconcerned that in both intent and implementation Crosscheck is overwhelmingly providing the former result and only paying lip service to the latter? Because of the byline?

As I said, I am against improperly removing people from voter rolls.

 

[davepoobond]

They can't get away with this.

 

[ivysaur12]

ACA is badly written, this law is badly written. It's like no one has written a decent law without some kind of nasty flaw in a long while.

So, let me get this straight: Your example for "both sides write shitty laws!" is an attempt to help the uninsured that has not been able to amended like any normal law would be because of a Republican congress to a blatant attempt to disenfranchise minority voters?

Right.

 

[RustyNails]

As I said, I am against improperly removing people from voter rolls.

Ok, so can we discuss what Greg Palast got wrong in the article? For those interested, author's one source of information is from a presentation by Chris Kobach, the Kansas sos that deviced this purge and this resentation is uploaded on documentcloud. Its there for everyone to see.

 

[Angelus Errare]

They can't get away with this.

They will because there are millions of people who don't give a single fuck, or worse like to pretend that what the Republicans are doing with this is okay because voter fraud.

 

[ivysaur12]

As I said, I am against improperly removing people from voter rolls.

So what is wrong with the article?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

You don't need to selectively quote to make Republicans look bad. Everything they say makes them look bad. (And Fox News is so blatantly partisan that they shouldn't be allowed as a primary source about anything political (and probably not for anything that isn't, either - their agenda leaks out everywhere).

Palast is just as blatantly partisan as Fox News. It's not that he "selectively quotes." It's that he:

• takes an innocuous caging list, shows it to a "independent" election official (who is actually a Democrat) 150 miles away from where the list targets who says it can only be used to improperly challenge voters at the polls because they were minorities. Problems: the list appeared to be an ethnic mix in middle class neighbourhoods, lacked precinct information, and was sent to high level communications people instead of low level operations people who would be in a position to challenge voters at the poll.
• portrays the 2008 Ohio ballot spoilage rate as evidence that Kerry won Ohio (and thus the 2008 election.) Problem: the spoiled ballots would have had to break 65% (using the numbers he reported) to over 90% (using numbers widely reported in mainstream outlets) for Kerry and he presented no argument for why those ballots would break so differently from the non-spoiled ballots (in 2004, over 75% of Ohio used punch cards, even in upper class precincts.)

You might not like the message in the story, but you can hardly blame the messenger (at least you haven't tried tying the website to terrorism because of the obvious link to the Middle East, which is usually what I see anti-Al Jazeera people do). Blame the people (Republicans) who have decided that minorities shouldn't have the right to vote and are doing everything in their power to disenfranchise people who think (and look) differently than they do.

The messenger is known distorter of facts to make the Republican party look worse than it already does. I can blame the messenger, just as NeoGAF blames certain messengers by barring links to them and as many blame Fox News for any slight to the left.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

How is this legal, even possible?

Can anything be done about this?

 

[InvaderZimmer]

So, let me get this straight: Your example for "both sides write shitty laws!" is an attempt to help the uninsured that has not been able to amended like any normal law would be because of a Republican congress to a blatant attempt to disenfranchise minority voters?

Right.

Not really sure what you are going for here other than saying the ACA is good for people and this is bad. Both are badly written laws, that is all that was stated. I made no judgments other than the quality of the writing, not the content.

The ACA clearly states that subsidies are explicitly only for those who sign up through the state exchanges. This is awful and example of bad writing.

This law seems like a blatant attempt to disenfranchise voters and may well have the same effect but I'm not so ready to believe that it didn't come from an earnest desire to reduce fraudulent voting. I for one have run into voting/air travel problems as my name has a suffix. This law would have caused me grief if it were implemented in my state and should be repealed because it's having an adverse effect on the voting rights of individuals.

Not saying both parties are ethically equal, just that the laws coming out are so badly written I have to question the government's abilities to write anything.

 

[ivysaur12]

This law seems like a blatant attempt to disenfranchise voters and may well have the same effect but I'm not so ready to believe that it didn't come from an earnest desire to reduce fraudulent voting.

Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/01/17/pennsylvania-judge-strikes-down-states-voter-id-law/

In Pennsylvania, one GOP leader said before the 2012 election that the law would help Mitt Romney carry the state — a pretty clear allusion to its partisan impact. Romney did not win the state, but after the election, the state Republican Party chairman said confusion about the voter ID law probably helped the GOP narrow the gap.

This isn't a badly written law. Like the PA law, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Saying "both parties write bad laws!" with examples of the ACA (one line in the ACA that actually won't cause any problems for any individuals after an en banc hearing from the DC Circuit) and active, insidious voter disenfranchisement is a real head scratcher.

 

[InvaderZimmer]

Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/01/17/pennsylvania-judge-strikes-down-states-voter-id-law/



This isn't a badly written law. Like the PA law, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Saying "both parties write bad laws!" with examples of the ACA (one line in the ACA that actually won't cause any problems for any individuals after an en banc hearing from the DC Circuit) and active, insidious voter disenfranchisement is a real head scratcher.

I would like to see a free national ID card, a cross referenced system of social security numbers, and citizenship verification to ensure the integrity of our elections. The way they are going about it is bad. Europe doesn't have these problems with voter fraud or claims of disenfranchisement.

 

[Timedog]

God bless, Al Jazeera.

The Justice Department needs to start getting involved.

This is exactly what needs to happen. C'mon, Obummer.

 

[Flo_Evans]

:lol yes because if there's a group of people who can afford the time and money to drive between states to vote twice its impoverished minorities

Shit I live on the border of 2 states and I don't have time for that.

 

[Dan]

I would like to see a free national ID card, a cross referenced system of social security numbers, and citizenship verification to ensure the integrity of our elections. The way they are going about it is bad. Europe doesn't have these problems with voter fraud or claims of disenfranchisement.

The United States doesn't have that problem either. It's a figment of mostly one political party's imagination.

 

[InvaderZimmer]

The United States doesn't have that problem either. It's a figment of mostly one political party's imagination.

Just that doing it right would stop these crappy laws... They would finally be able to say "Hey look we stopped your dead grandmother from voting in 3 states!" While the other party would be able to say they protected the voting rights of everyone.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Now that people are talking about voter ID, time to link to my thread about it.

 

[HylianTom]

The United States doesn't have that problem either. It's a figment of mostly one political party's imagination.

It's their coping mechanism. Denial. To them, they aren't losing because voters are rejecting their ideas - they're losing because the other side is full of evil, eeeevil cheaters.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

B-b-b-but racism is dead. The Supreme court told me so

Seriously though, this is some good fucking journalism.

One of those suspected of voting twice lives a five-minute walk from the VIP offices. When confronted with his name on the Crosscheck list as a voter in both Fairfax, Virginia and in Raleigh, North Carolina, Robert Blackman Finnel Jr. confesses that he indeed once lived and voted in Virginia. But, he protests, “I swear on a stack of Bibles” that he was not in, nor voted in, that state in the 2012 election. His oath is in doubt, however, as, from his wheelchair, the senior-home resident did not appear to be able to lift more than one Bible at a time.

lol

 

[Metaphoreus]

B-b-b-but racism is dead. The Supreme court told me so

I don't mean to derail the thread, but this ignorant meme is one of my pet peeves. You should stop repeating it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm *EAGER* to hear Stacy Dash's position on the matter.

 

[JNA]

Fuck US politics. Fuck it. If you can't win fair, cheat your way into office.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-u5NTA7TGqI

Spoiler

House of Cards spoilers

 

[RustyNails]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but this ignorant meme is one of my pet peeves. You should stop repeating it.

I'm sorry metabolite, but to me it looks like a whole lot of bullshit to dismantle vra. There was no reason to.

 

[davepoobond]

Just that doing it right would stop these crappy laws... They would finally be able to say "Hey look we stopped your dead grandmother from voting in 3 states!" While the other party would be able to say they protected the voting rights of everyone.

You are delusional if you think that is the only thing preventing it.

They are actively finding ways to stop people from voting. Stopping early voting, making it hard to get the IDs, reducing polling hours and stations in politically motivated ways

Also there is the voting rights act and the amendments that prevent things like poll taxes and Jim Crow laws from being able to lastingly stay on the books before being thrown out for being unconstitutional.

The rhetoric from the Republican Party has always been to reduce the size of government and stop regulation while increasing governments role in creating an undue burden on those who do not have a tendency to vote for their party

An ID will not change that. If everyone did get an ID then everyone would need something else. The goal posts will always move.

 

[Metaphoreus]

I'm sorry metabolite, but to me it looks like a whole lot of bullshit to dismantle vra. There was no reason to.

You don't have to apologize. It's just that people who want to complain about that ruling should do so on the basis of its actual rationale, not an ignorant Internet meme.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm *EAGER* to hear Stacy Dash's position on the matter.

Something something, Barack Obama, Something something, Obamacare, Something something, Denocratic slavery, something.

 

[Lkr]

Just that doing it right would stop these crappy laws... They would finally be able to say "Hey look we stopped your dead grandmother from voting in 3 states!" While the other party would be able to say they protected the voting rights of everyone.

voter fraud isn't real. it is a made up issue to disenfranchise minorities from voting. there is no need for any ID card.

i laughed at the george bush pic on the first page. my dad and i have the same name, and neither one of us use our suffix. nothing is going to happen though, because we are white. it is a damn shame that people have to stoop so low to keep crooks in office

 

[weepy]

Oh and Jim Crow never really left. He went to college and got a degree and now works inside the system

I lol'd.