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John Wick: Chapter 2 |OT| I Know Gun Fu

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Ok I got a question

Was that scene with John and whats his face (Cassius or Cassian?) shooting each other with super silencers supposed to be tongue in cheek

also they should make a Hotline Miami movie. I can feel it in this
 
Damn

John Wick 2 was everything I wanted it to be. Fantastic action, a deeper look at its world, and style to spare.

Goddamn. What I wanted. Can't wait till I get to see it.

One of my favorite aspects of the first film is how it repeatedly depicts Wick commanding an almost mythical level of respect in the Underworld. The simple "Oh" uttered by Viggo in his call with Aurelio is a hilarious scene, but it's particularly brilliant for conveying in one word the sheer gravity of Losef's fuck up and Viggo's regard for Wick. And this respect is not just for John's talents but for the man himself, as Viggo later praises him for being "a man of focus, commitment, sheer will" while putting down his own son for lacking those traits. And throughout both films that deference is shown by every other high level player in the Underworld almost without exception.

But despite his legendary status, John Wick is such a grounded character. He's a force of nature but he never feels unstoppable like so many classic action protagonists. We see him beaten and wounded. We see him get his ass kicked throughout both films. He's shot, he's cut, he's stabbed, he's rammed by cars, he's thrown off of ledges and he's left limping after almost every fight with other assassins. He pays for those interactions in pain and blood, and because of this every encounter between Wick and an opposing force feels super fucking intense.

Yeah that was great stuff and an amazing touch to the movie and also added to why the Hotel was so amazing. Can't wait to see Wick 2.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
I liked that fight with the
deaf bodyguard. Some people seemed cool on it but I thought, for as short as it was, it was one of the more ferocious fights, especially with that palm block. Of course, it can't best the pencil.
 

Ronin Ray

Member
I just left the theater and I am slightly disappointed. I don't know if it was the insane hype but I feel like there have easliy been better action movies the last 5 or 6 years. Just a few things in this movie that really bother me.
 
Just got back. Liked the movie a lot but I very much prefer the first one.

The first movie is very, very tight. This one is too, compared to a lot of other movies but [very general spoiler, no real specifics]
focusing the plot on the politics of the Continental and really building on that part of the world, made for a less focused movie, in my opinion.

Still loved it though. The gunplay choreography is just amazing.
 

Jerrod

Member
It was good, but I liked the first one better. This one felt...unfocused? Scenes went on way too long and it felt like they were trying too hard to top the first. One major complaint I had
besides his bulletproof batsuit
was...

why in the first movie did they make a point of showing realistic gun combat against foes with bullet proof vests (John shooting them in the chest to stun them or limbs to disable them and then focusing on headshots to kill) but in this movie NOBODY but John had any kind of body armor. Seemed very odd to me.
 

sirap

Member
It was good, but I liked the first one better. This one felt...unfocused? Scenes went on way too long and it felt like they were trying too hard to top the first. One major complaint I had
besides his bulletproof batsuit
was...

why in the first movie did they make a point of showing realistic gun combat against foes with bullet proof vests (John shooting them in the chest to stun them and then focusing on headshots to kill) but in this movie NOBODY but John had any kind of armor. Seemed very odd to me.

I'll have to rewatch it but I'm pretty sure
Cassian
has the same kind of suit. That doesn't really matter though because John always does a double-tap to the head. Can't armor up against that one.

A better lore-friendly explanation would be that not many assassins can afford bulletproof
suits
. John is the 1% and they make this apparent by showing how little disregard he has for the gold coins when everyone else goes gaga for it.
 
http://variety.com/2017/film/news/b...-fifty-shades-john-wick-chapter-2-1201984551/
Lionsgate’s “John Wick: Chapter 2” — perhaps partially due to strong word of mouth — is performing above its early estimates as it shoots for a $11 million-$13 million Friday. By the weekend’s end, the action sequel starring Keanu Reeves should capture between $29 million and $34 million from 3,113 locations.

...“John Wick” opened in October of 2014 and grossed over $80 million worldwide. It opened at number two in the U.S. with $14 million.
 

HiiiLife

Member
So the fights scene with
John using the pencil = Dark Knight joker x10 lol

Also for the possibility of
a third movie...John wick vs the world??? Impossible task number 2. The only thing more impossible than whatever impossible task he did prior to part 1 is to...kill the entire planet
 
The most interesting thing about John wick is the universe it's set in. I absolutely loved it and I think it's actually an amazing sequal to the original.
 
So the fights scene with
John using the pencil = Dark Knight joker x10 lol

Also for the possibility of
a third movie...John wick vs the world??? Impossible task number 2. The only thing more impossible than whatever impossible task he did prior to part 1 is to...kill the entire planet

I'll kill them all.
 
So the fights scene with
John using the pencil = Dark Knight joker x10 lol

Also for the possibility of
a third movie...John wick vs the world??? Impossible task number 2. The only thing more impossible than whatever impossible task he did prior to part 1 is to...kill the entire planet
Rogue John Wick versus the full force of the High Table

Also I kind of feel there's a power vacuum on the High Table now. I wouldn't be surprising if one side wants to use John Wick as the ultimate weapon on their side for a pardon or something along those lines
 

sirap

Member
Rogue John Wick versus the full force of the High Table

Also I kind of feel there's a power vacuum on the High Table now. I wouldn't be surprising if one side wants to use John Wick as the ultimate weapon on their side for a pardon or something along those lines

I'm not totally sold that Winston has Wick's best interest in mind.
We'll probably see multiple factions move in on that empty seat at the High Table or seek to destroy it completely.

Poor John is caught between it all.
 
So Common will likely be JW's only friend in part 3?

Gonna miss JW going into shops to stock up but I guess he just needs pencils.

Edit: Oh maybe that African boss guy in the beginning of the movie will also help JW.
 
Saw this tonight and enjoyed it a lot! Still think I like the first one more but I really enjoyed the
world building aspects
of this one. Really did feel like a "chapter 2" of a much bigger story, while the first one was more self contained. Did not disappoint in the slightest.

Only thing I really didn't like though was
the ending where it seems that everyone is entrenched and connected to the whole organization/underground. Thought it was more of a secret society in plain sight sort of thing.
 

bleaker

Member
Saw it earlier today, and I gotta say that it was the best action sequel in years, if not one of the best action films ever made. Sincerely, the action scenes in this were brutal and topped the original tenfold. While I feel like the film lost a bit of the personal story the first told, this seemed like the proper way for the story to go.

Having said that, the scene near the end where John breaks down after killing Santino really hit me. At this point I think he realized that he could never stop killing, because part of him likes it. Keanu sold that with out any dialogue and I really appreciated it.

Now the sequel will obviously be big, really big. I don't know if I love it as much as the first, but both have become two of my favorite action films of the century.
 
Gunplay might have been better but I felt the judo and jiu jitsu weren't as good as the first movie. The martial arts in the first movie were so on point, so technical, that it was going to be hard to top though.
 

Jeffrey

Member
no spoiler thread?


Fun movie, although by the end I feel like the 'john wick gun fu playbook' is getting a bit used up.

The setup for the sequel hopefully could lead to more improv weapons and combat aka that Equalizer movie.Hopefully we can see other factions too. I can't imagine the Contiental to be the only 'guild' out there.
 

sirap

Member
Calling it now, Lance Reddick will be John's only bro in the third one.

Wire+s2e12+Port+in+a+storm+b.jpg
 
Gunplay might have been better but I felt the judo and jiu jitsu weren't as good as the first movie. The martial arts in the first movie were so on point, so technical, that it was going to be hard to top though.
Maybe too technical? The fights in 2 seemed more brutal and ruthless, a bit more sloppy
 
Amazing the film basically. So happy with the movie and its the best one of the year so far imo.

The Gun-fu had me on the edge of my seat and then the matrix references killed me. Some of the executions were so brutal but I loved them all.

Can't wait for a 3rd trip into this world of assassins. Also I hope he got his car back before breaking ties with Continental.
 

fr0st

Banned
So the fights scene with
John using the pencil = Dark Knight joker x10 lol

Also for the possibility of
a third movie...John wick vs the world??? Impossible task number 2. The only thing more impossible than whatever impossible task he did prior to part 1 is to...kill the entire planet

the mob boss in the first one says something about john killing 3 people with only a pencil
 
I'm not totally sold that Winston has Wick's best interest in mind.
We'll probably see multiple factions move in on that empty seat at the High Table or seek to destroy it completely.

Poor John is caught between it all.
In every single scene Winston has had across both films he has done nothing but praise, defend and/or protect John in some manner. He gave up Losef's location in the first movie, bending the rules of the Continental. He further gave away Viggo's escape route despite being under no obligation to.
And he bent the Rules again for Wick in Chapter 2 by delaying the excommunication. We see what happens to members of the Continental who kill on the premises and don't have Winston's favor, and he's the one person we've seen so far that actually has the manpower to have John killed if he wanted. The demonstration with the crowd at the end drives this home.

When Wick threatens to kill anyone who comes after him, Winston replies with paternalistic (and slightly creepy) pride, "Of course you will." He's beginning to tear up in this scene and the one following, as he's ordering the excommunication. Legit waterworks! You get the impression he's having to cast out his own son or a favorite nephew. And the only time in both films we see Winston on edge is when John is about to kill Santino; he clearly does no want John to suffer the consequences.

He seems pretty solidly in Wick's corner.
 

border

Member
I don't really understand the plot here.

Santino hires wick to assasinate his sister Gianna, in part because he thinks only Wick can do it and presumably because he doesn't want anyone to know he was responsible for her death. Wick then kills Gianna with such ease that we kinda question whether or not he was really necessary to complete the hit (but that's besides the point).

Santino then sends Ruby to kill Wick, because he thinks Wick is the loose end that can connect him to his sister's murder. But at this point it's clear that there are other loose ends anyway -- Winston and (I think) Cassian both already know why Wick was given his marching orders, and who gave him the contract. It kind of makes sense to kill Wick at the scene of the crime, because they can just claim they were trying to apprehend Wick to find out his employer, but in the process Wick died in a shootout.

But then Ruby fails to kill Wick. Santino takes out a massive worldwide contract on Wick's head. Everybody in the criminal world knows that Wick is an assassin seeking retirement, and would have no purpose or motivation for killing Gianna. There's no point in having him killed because ostensibly it was someone else that paid him to do it. So for Santino to then sponsor a contract for Wick should be a huge red flag that very obviously incriminates him. At this point it doesn't really matter whether Wick lives or dies, because even an idiot looking at the situation from the outside can tell that Santino was behind everything. Whatever subterfuge he wanted to accomplish has been thwarted by his all-out war on Wick.

At the film's end, there's really no reason that the High Table should be seeking to bring the hammer down on Wick. He was an assassin doing a job, and the guy that hired him decided to fuck him over to protect his own reputation. If anything, Wick should have the support of both the assassin's guild and the High Table, since it was clearly Santino that broke protocol by trying to kill an assassin he hired. I mean, clearly that has to be some kind of taboo in their world, right? The whole point of unionized labor is to make sure the bosses and money men don't fuck over those that they employ. Trying to murder someone who successfully completed a job for you definitely is crossing a line that should enrage all the blue-collar assassins out there.
 

sirap

Member
In every single scene Winston has had across both films he has done nothing but praise, defend and/or protect John in some manner. He gave up Losef's location in the first movie, bending the rules of the Continental. He further gave away Viggo's escape route despite being under no obligation to.
And he bent the Rules again for Wick in Chapter 2 by delaying the excommunication. We see what happens to members of the Continental who kill on the premises and don't have Winston's favor, and he's the one person we've seen so far that actually has the manpower to have John killed if he wanted. The demonstration with the crowd at the end drives this home.

When Wick threatens to kill anyone who comes after him, Winston replies with paternalistic (and slightly creepy) pride, "Of course you will." He's beginning to tear up in this scene and the one following, as he's ordering the excommunication. Legit waterworks! You get the impression he's having to cast out his own son or a favorite nephew. And the only time in both films we see Winston on edge is when John is about to kill Santino; he clearly does no want John to suffer the consequences.

He seems pretty solidly in Wick's corner.

Valid points, but I still believe we'll get the evil mentor trope in the third film. All signs point to him being a father figure but it wouldn't be hard to write in a hidden agenda for Winston in the next one. Is it likely to happen? Not really, but I would love for the theme of the third film to revolve around trust.
John is on the run and he doesn't know who his allies are. Leguizamo might play a big role in the next one as he seems pretty tight with John.

I don't really understand the plot here.

Santino then sends Ruby to kill Wick, because he thinks Wick is the loose end that can connect him to his sister's murder. But at this point it's clear that there are other loose ends anyway -- Winston and (I think) Cassian both already know why Wick was given his marching orders, and who gave him the contract. It kind of makes sense to kill Wick at the scene of the crime, because they can just claim they were trying to apprehend Wick to find out his employer, but in the process Wick died in a shootout.

But then Ruby fails to kill Wick. Santino takes out a massive worldwide contract on Wick's head. Everybody in the criminal world knows that Wick is an assassin seeking retirement, and would have no purpose or motivation for killing Gianna. There's no point in having him killed because ostensibly it was someone else that paid him to do it. So for Santino to then sponsor a contract for Wick should be a huge red flag that very obviously incriminates him. At this point it doesn't really matter whether Wick lives or dies, because even an idiot looking at the situation from the outside can tell that Santino was behind everything. Whatever subterfuge he wanted to accomplish has been thwarted by his all-out war on Wick.

At the film's end, there's really no reason that the High Table should be seeking to bring the hammer down on Wick. He was an assassin doing a job, and the guy that hired him decided to fuck him over to protect his own reputation. If anything, Wick should have the support of both the assassin's guild and the High Table, since it was clearly Santino that broke protocol by trying to kill an assassin he hired. I mean, clearly that has to be some kind of taboo in their world, right? The whole point of unionized labor is to make sure the bosses and money men don't fuck over those that they employ. Trying to murder someone who successfully completed a job for you definitely is crossing a line that should enrage all the blue-collar assassins out there.

I think you're over-complicating things.
Killing members of the High Table is something you simply don't do. There are strict rules all assassins adhere to and they've repeated this point many times throughout the movie. Rules must be upheld and if they simply let Wick off the hook, it'll set a precedence and cause chaos amongst the organization.

Even then, I'm not sure it really matters if the other members of the High Table know it was Santino who issued the order. It's probably happened before and will continue to happen again. Treachery probably comes with the territory and Wick makes a convenient scapegoat.
 
I don't really understand the plot here.

Santino hires wick to assasinate his sister Gianna, in part because he thinks only Wick can do it and presumably because he doesn't want anyone to know he was responsible for her death. Wick then kills Gianna with such ease that we kinda question whether or not he was really necessary to complete the hit (but that's besides the point).

Santino then sends Ruby to kill Wick, because he thinks Wick is the loose end that can connect him to his sister's murder. But at this point it's clear that there are other loose ends anyway -- Winston and (I think) Cassian both already know why Wick was given his marching orders, and who gave him the contract. It kind of makes sense to kill Wick at the scene of the crime, because they can just claim they were trying to apprehend Wick to find out his employer, but in the process Wick died in a shootout.

But then Ruby fails to kill Wick. Santino takes out a massive worldwide contract on Wick's head. Everybody in the criminal world knows that Wick is an assassin seeking retirement, and would have no purpose or motivation for killing Gianna. There's no point in having him killed because ostensibly it was someone else that paid him to do it. So for Santino to then sponsor a contract for Wick should be a huge red flag that very obviously incriminates him. At this point it doesn't really matter whether Wick lives or dies, because even an idiot looking at the situation from the outside can tell that Santino was behind everything. Whatever subterfuge he wanted to accomplish has been thwarted by his all-out war on Wick.

At the film's end, there's really no reason that the High Table should be seeking to bring the hammer down on Wick. He was an assassin doing a job, and the guy that hired him decided to fuck him over to protect his own reputation. If anything, Wick should have the support of both the assassin's guild and the High Table, since it was clearly Santino that broke protocol by trying to kill an assassin he hired. I mean, clearly that has to be some kind of taboo in their world, right? The whole point of unionized labor is to make sure the bosses and money men don't fuck over those that they employ. Trying to murder someone who successfully completed a job for you definitely is crossing a line that should enrage all the blue-collar assassins out there.

I think the answer here is that
Santino, once his sister was dead, would of course take out a massive contract on the head of her killer.

Also,
they made a point of what the rules are: you always honor those weird blood medallion things, and you never do "business" in the Continental. John shot Santino in the Continental, and like that woman in JW1, that meant he was done. It was all Winston could do to give him a head start.
 
Yeah Winston is a solid guy who has nothing but tremendous respect for John.
Sadly I think being a faux paternal figure means he might be killed in a hostile takeover in John Wick 3 which forces John out of hiding. Winston has displayed his power and dominion over his kingdom in two movies. It's about time someone tries to overthrow him to shake up the formula.
 

border

Member
Killing members of the High Table is something you simply don't do. There are strict rules all assassins adhere to and they've repeated this point many times throughout the movie. Rules must be upheld and if they simply let Wick off the hook, it'll set a precedence and cause chaos amongst the organization.

I don't recall anywhere in this movie that this "Don't kill High Table people" rule was expressed. Did I miss it? Are High Table members considered untouchable, even by assassins? I think that should have been a bigger consideration in Wick's deliberation, because as far as I saw there was nothing to indicate that this job would have been breaking strict protocol. It's basically set up as, "Yeah, this job is going to be a hassle but just get it over with and you'll be done." If this job was something that would leave him a marked man for the rest of his life, then he deserves all this bullshit for not even attempting to hide his identity during the hit.

I think the answer here is that
Santino, once his sister was dead, would of course take out a massive contract on the head of her killer.

Why take a hit out on the assassin that killed her, though? It doesn't accomplish any kind of true retribution, and it makes him look incredibly suspect. At some point he knows the cat is out of the bag and he'll be connected to Gianna's murder anyway.
 
I don't recall anywhere in this movie that this "Don't kill High Table people" rule was expressed. Did I miss it? Are High Table members considered untouchable, even by assassins? I think that should have been a bigger consideration in Wick's deliberation, because as far as I saw there was nothing to indicate that this job would have been breaking strict protocol. It's basically set up as, "Yeah, this job is going to be a hassle but just get it over with and you'll be done." If this job was something that would leave him a marked man for the rest of his life, then he deserves all this bullshit for not even attempting to hide his identity during the hit.

Why take a hit out on the assassin that killed her, though? It doesn't accomplish any kind of true retribution, and it makes him look incredibly suspect. At some point he knows the cat is out of the bag and he'll be connected to Gianna's murder anyway.
Yes,
in the beginning when the marker was first introduced. It was why Wick just couldn't kill Santian or ignore the marker. Because of the High Table's rules

As for your second part,
why wouldn't an angry grieving crime boss put out a hit on the assassin that killed his sister?
 
There is no rule against killing members of th high table. And I was always under the impression that he knew John was gonna come for him after he finished the job. The loose end is that John Wick was gonna kill him. Not that he'd be discovered. But Santino was untouchable until the marker was fulfilled.
 

sirap

Member
I don't recall anywhere in this movie that this "Don't kill High Table people" rule was expressed. Did I miss it? Are High Table members considered untouchable, even by assassins? I think that should have been a bigger consideration in Wick's deliberation, because as far as I saw there was nothing to indicate that this job would have been breaking strict protocol. It's basically set up as, "Yeah, this job is going to be a hassle but just get it over with and you'll be done." If this job was something that would leave him a marked man for the rest of his life, then he deserves all this bullshit for not even attempting to hide his identity during the hit.

They don't spell it outright, but you can take John's reservations
on the contract and Morpheus explaining the repercussions to his group if they go after Santino as proof that it is, at the very least, considered taboo.
 
John Wick wanted to kill Santino. But the rules protected him until the blood oath was fulfilled. The rules were protecting Santino again at the end of the movie. So John was like, fuck the rules.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I don't recall anywhere in this movie that this "Don't kill High Table people" rule was expressed. Did I miss it? Are High Table members considered untouchable, even by assassins? I think that should have been a bigger consideration in Wick's deliberation, because as far as I saw there was nothing to indicate that this job would have been breaking strict protocol. It's basically set up as, "Yeah, this job is going to be a hassle but just get it over with and you'll be done." If this job was something that would leave him a marked man for the rest of his life, then he deserves all this bullshit for not even attempting to hide his identity during the hit.



Why take a hit out on the assassin that killed her, though? It doesn't accomplish any kind of true retribution, and it makes him look incredibly suspect. At some point he knows the cat is out of the bag and he'll be connected to Gianna's murder anyway.

Basically,
Wick wanted to kill Santino from the start after he burned his house down. The rule that got in his way was their Mark, he couldn't kill him without first fulfilling his half, then he was going to go after and kill him.

After she's dead and Santino calls him, you can tell by the lack of any response it's because Wick is now planning on going after him since he was going to do that from the start anyway. Thus the giant hit on Wick to cover his ass.
 
Why take a hit out on the assassin that killed her, though? It doesn't accomplish any kind of true retribution, and it makes him look incredibly suspect. At some point he knows the cat is out of the bag and he'll be connected to Gianna's murder anyway.

Yeah, I do think it's kind of silly that he hired the one guy he has no chance of successfully backstabbing, especially given how he was literally able to walk right up to her. He couldn't find some low-tier killer who'd probably get killed by her bodyguards?
 
Yeah, I do think it's kind of silly that he hired the one guy he has no chance of successfully backstabbing, especially given how he was literally able to walk right up to her. He couldn't find some low-tier killer who'd probably get killed by her bodyguards?

Eh, that's just action movies though. The protagonist can tank a bullet in the head and the villain will still think they have a chance. As far as we know, John is the only person who can pull it off. It's not a plot hole, it's just a fact. There's no movie if he could just get someone else. And did you see Cassian?
 

border

Member
Yes,
in the beginning when the marker was first introduced. It was why Wick just couldn't kill Santian or ignore the marker. Because of the High Table's rules

As for your second part,
why wouldn't an angry grieving crime boss put out a hit on the assassin that killed his sister?

Assuming that High Table members cannot be "legally" assassinated, the rules are not really that well thought out. If assassins are legally bound by a Blood Marker, then how are they supposed to reconcile the contradiction if someone holding their marker commands them to do something "illegal"? It is illegal to breach a contract with someone, but if I have a contract with my lawyer and I demand that he cover up my embezzlement scheme, the Bar Association is not going to come down on me for refusing to do so. At no point did I really get the sense that Santino was asking Wick to really violate the code of the criminal underworld. I just thought he wanted to appear innocent.

"Why wouldn't an angry grieving crime boss put out a hit on the assassin that killed his sister?" Because in the context of that world, it's a fruitless gesture. Killing your sister's assassin accomplishes nothing, and only makes it look like you were trying to cover up something. If anything, killing the assassin will make it impossible to find the person that actually ordered the hit.
 
The fact that Wick needs to repeatedly reload, as well as deal with the time needed to switch weapons during a fight, really adds to the shootouts. They have a rhythm to them that you just can't have when your heroes have bottomless magazines
 
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