Eh, that's just action movies though. The protagonist can tank a bullet in the head and the villain will still think they have a chance. As far as we know, John is the only person who can pull it off. It's not a plot hole, it's just a fact. I mean, Ms. perkins thought she had a shot at taking out John in the first movie.
Assuming that High Table members cannot be "legally" assassinated, the rules are not really that well thought out. If assassins are legally bound by a Blood Marker, then how are they supposed to reconcile the contradiction if someone holding their marker commands them to do something "illegal"? It is illegal to breach a contract with someone, but if I have a contract with my lawyer and I demand that he cover up my embezzlement scheme, the Bar Association is not going to come down on me for refusing to do so. At no point did I really get the sense that Santino was asking Wick to really violate the code of the criminal underworld. I just thought he wanted to appear innocent.
"Why wouldn't an angry grieving crime boss put out a hit on the assassin that killed his sister?" Because in the context of that world, it's a fruitless gesture. Killing your sister's assassin accomplishes nothing, and only makes it look like you were trying to cover up something. If anything, killing the assassin will make it impossible to find the person that actually ordered the hit.
There is no rule against killing high table members. Killing Wick is a power play that's common in crime movies. Yeah I hired you to wack my sibling, but she was still family and I can't appear weak by letting her death go unavenged even if it was by my hand. It's all about keeping up appearances even if everyone knows it's bullshit. Also it was to stop Wick from getting revenge on his house.
Assuming that High Table members cannot be "legally" assassinated, the rules are not really that well thought out. If assassins are legally bound by a Blood Marker, then how are they supposed to reconcile the contradiction if someone holding their marker commands them to do something "illegal"? It is illegal to breach a contract with someone, but if I have a contract with my lawyer and I demand that he cover up my embezzlement scheme, the Bar Association is not going to come down on me for refusing to do so. At no point did I really get the sense that Santino was asking Wick to really violate the code of the criminal underworld. I just thought he wanted to appear innocent.
"Why wouldn't an angry grieving crime boss put out a hit on the assassin that killed his sister?" Because in the context of that world, it's a fruitless gesture. Killing your sister's assassin accomplishes nothing, and only makes it look like you were trying to cover up something. If anything, killing the assassin will make it impossible to find the person that actually ordered the hit.
There is no rule against killing high table members. Killing Wick is a power play that's common in crime movies. Yeah I hired you to wack my sibling, but she was still family and I can't appear weak by letting her death go unavenged even if it was by my hand. It's all about keeping up appearances even if everyone knows it's bullshit. Also it was to stop Wick from getting revenge on his house.
I suppose that is the best explanation. Santino doesn't actually care that everyone knows he ordered a hit on his sister, but he just wants to avoid Wick's retribution. It almost gives the story more depth, since Wick's capacity for vengeance is incredibly well-known at this point. If he were any other assassin Santino might have let him walk, but since he knows that Wick will murder hundreds of people over something as petty as a car/dog, he can't be allowed to live. "This guy killed an entire crime family over a Mustang.....so obviously he isn't going to forgive us blowing up his house. Time to put a hit out on him."
I mean it's not really weird. No assassin would be willing to risk their life killing a high table member. That's not a job you could pay any amount of money for someone to do. Its an S-rank mission with no retries and one life. And they probably know Santino would kill them after to protect the family name. John Wick is the only one he has any leverage over because of the marker. He's the only one he can force to do it since he can't pay anyone to.
I suppose that is the best explanation. Santino doesn't actually care that everyone knows he ordered a hit on his sister, but he just wants to avoid Wick's retribution. It almost gives the story more depth, since Wick's capacity for vengeance is incredibly well-known at this point. If he were any other assassin Santino might have let him walk, but since he knows that Wick will murder hundreds over people over something as petty as a car/dog, he can't be allowed to live. "This guy killed an entire crime family over a Mustang.....so obviously he isn't going to forgive us blowing up his house. Time to put a hit out on him."
The more I think about it the more I realize how this movie is a never-ending series of consequences biting characters in the ass, not just for Wick but the other characters too.
Russian kid didn't have to go on an ego trip and kill Wick's puppy.
Russian dad didn't have to kill Osborn.
Wick could've taken the L and remained "retired".
Santino could've let things chill and tried again (perhaps calling on the Continental's help to enforce the marker). Instead, he chose to blow up John fucking Wick's house.
Yeah Winston is a solid guy who has nothing but tremendous respect for John.
Sadly I think being a faux paternal figure means he might be killed in a hostile takeover in John Wick 3 which forces John out of hiding. Winston has displayed his power and dominion over his kingdom in two movies. It's about time someone tries to overthrow him to shake up the formula.
There will be many angry disagreements and arguments in this thread. But I think the one thing we can all agree on is:
Winston is not going to live to see the end of Chapter 3. As John Wick's only friend, it's inevitable that his death will either be the sacrifice that ends the trilogy or sets off the chain of events that will conclude in Chapter 4.
this movie really doubles down on something SO simple that made the first movies gunfights so kinetic - John has to fucking reload!
Heroes will reload after the fight or behind cover all the time sure, but few series have the hero reloading a pistol, rifle or even a SHOTGUN mid brawl and mid grapple. It helps that the amount of shots per gun is even calculated out, both making the fight more "real" and showing just how good John is at this.
There will be many angry disagreements and arguments in this thread. But I think the one thing we can all agree on is:
Winston is not going to live to see the end of Chapter 3. As John Wick's only friend, it's inevitable that his death will either be the sacrifice that ends the trilogy or sets off the chain of events that will conclude in Chapter 4.
I reckon Winston get assassinated. John teams up with Lance Reddick the concierge and Aurelio the car guy to take down whoever is responsible. Cassian is either gonna be the guy who kills Winston or teams up with John for some reason.
The more I think about it the more I realize how this movie is a never-ending series of consequences biting characters in the ass, not just for Wick but the other characters too.
Russian kid didn't have to go on an ego trip and kill Wick's puppy.
Russian dad didn't have to kill Osborn.
Wick could've taken the L and remained "retired".
Santino could've let things chill and tried again (perhaps calling on the Continental's help to enforce the marker). Instead, he chose to blow up John fucking Wick's house.
Wick to kill Santino in the Continental either. Yeah he was threatening to use the place as a safe haven for weeks and months to come, but Wick probably could have sussed things out by pleading his case to the High Table and the Assassin's Guild - Winston and maybe Cassian would have backed up his story. At least in this instance though you can chalk Wick's impulsiveness up to the stress of having gone on a 24-hour murder spree.
God damn....I was excited for the movie but holy shit it blew me away.
That shootout in rome! Takes a lot of setting up to get to it but once the shit hits the fan it hits HARD.
Me and my buddy decided to try and do a kill count before we saw it, for the first 45 or so minutes...we were at 5 kills. In the span of about 5 minutes that number jumped to 50-some...I think he kills more people in the catacombs/concert than the entire first movie, just INSANE.
Can't wait to see it again.
Edit: by the way our final bodycount was 134 confirmed kills..anyone else have an official stat? I'd love to see how far off we were.
Does John Wick Chapter 2 have the same "heart" as the first movie? No, probably not. But I think if they had tried to play up Wick's grief and remorse any further than they did, it would not have worked well and felt a bit corny.
In the 3rd Act, having him revisit his destroyed house to recover a few mementos of his marriage was just enough to remind us why he's doing what he's doing. In the first sections, he beats up 1000 henchmen goons to get his car back....but we soon learn it wasn't about the car, but about retrieving a birthday card his wife sent him out of the glove box. Absolutely perfect, even if it's admittedly dumb of him to risk his life over a Hallmark greeting. We learn about his convictions in a way that still feels real, even in the context of a film that has clearly abandoned reality. I think the filmmakers did an expert job of conveying Wick's motivation without overplaying their hand.
I also feel like Ruby Rose was under-utilized. They wanted her to be like Hammer Girl in Raid 2, but she's just not as engaging and enigmatic.
As for technical criticism of the review: Your body bobs and sways back and forth, creating a weird nervous energy. Is this a bad thing? I don't know. Plenty of other YouTubers struggle with how to create energy in extended videos that would otherwise just be talking heads. Most of them just use an extended series of aggressive cuts and edits to make a monologue seem more lively. I almost definitely prefer your jittery long takes to the crazy editing of your peers. I'm not sure which technique will play better to the YouTube audience though.
Does John Wick Chapter 2 have the same "heart" as the first movie? No, probably not. But I think if they had tried to play up Wick's grief and remorse any further than they did, it would not have worked well and felt a bit corny.
In the 3rd Act, having him revisit his destroyed house to recover a few mementos of his marriage was just enough to remind us why he's doing what he's doing. In the first sections, he beats up 1000 henchmen goons to get his car back....but we soon learn it wasn't about the car, but about retrieving a birthday card his wife sent him out of the glove box. Absolutely perfect, even if it's admittedly dumb of him to risk his life over a Hallmark greeting. We learn about his convictions in a way that still feels real, even in the context of a film that has clearly abandoned reality. I think the filmmakers did an expert job of conveying Wick's motivation without overplaying their hand.
As for technical criticism of the review: Your body bobs and sways back and forth, creating a weird nervous energy. Is this a bad thing? I don't know. Plenty of other YouTubers struggle with how to create energy in extended videos that would otherwise just be talking heads. Most of them just use an extended series of aggressive cuts and edits to make a monologue seem more lively. I almost definitely prefer your jittery long takes to the crazy editing of your peers. I'm not sure which technique will play better to the YouTube audience though.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and give feedback! The swaying is something I've struggled with since it's tied to the core concept (i.e. recording while exercising via the treadmill). Compared to when I started it's a lot better due to slowing the pace of the walking, but if you had that initial reaction even now then I'm at a bit of a loss... thank you again for taking the time!
Good movie though I didn't enjoy it as much as the first (I thought that one was more tightly written). At times I felt like this movie tried to go too big with its own universe, and that made the movie kind of sloppy at points. Overall it was great though. What I wasn't bothered by was johns motivations. It was definitely a
do or die moment the whole film and I felt if John was going to make a choice he let it be on his own terms which I think the movie alluded to several times (Gianna's death being the most notable callback)
1) Phenomenal soundtrack; I must get a hold of it soon.
2) The sheer escalation from the 1st film is incredible, with regards to the scope and scale of the action scenes.
3) That ending! The intense sense of dread and excitement when all the phones in the park start going off was well executed; the music fit that scene perfectly.
My only critique would be that the non-action moments of the film tended to be a bit slow and sometimes melodramatic; the deliberate pauses after almost every sentence (from all the characters) was a bit much at times, lol
Overall, amazing film and a great sequel. I haven't seen a sequel improve on the original to such an extent since Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.
I honestly have no clue as to how much more they can escalate and diversify the action scenes in the inevitable 3rd film; the scope is going to be immense, considering the
Man, I loved this film. Has everything I would like to see in action sequel. This and The Raid 2 have become perfect examples for me. It was also nice to see Morpheus and Neo on the same screen again.
Really hope we get a third one. But seeing how the director wont be able to do it since he's on that Highlander movie next, would make me feel a bit uneasy if they hand it to a new director to take over, unless it's Keanu himself of course.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and give feedback! The swaying is something I've struggled with since it's tied to the core concept (i.e. recording while exercising via the treadmill). Compared to when I started it's a lot better due to slowing the pace of the walking, but if you had that initial reaction even now then I'm at a bit of a loss... thank you again for taking the time!
Oh, I didn't realize you were on a treadmill at all. Well that explains it! You might want to make that a little more clear in future videos.
Were you inspired by John Kilduff, the "Let's Paint, Exercise, and Blend Drinks!" guy who also does videos while exercising? I haven't watched his videos in a long time, but they are certainly among my all-time favorites.
Say Wick doesn't kill the guy. How does the Continental handle it? The guy's gonna stay in the hotel forever, but he's also just threatened the whole order. You can't kill him there - it undermines the establishment's authority. Can't kick him out directly because he's under your protection. You're Winston... what do you do?
Say Wick doesn't kill the guy. How does the Continental handle it? The guy's gonna stay in the hotel forever, but he's also just threatened the whole order. You can't kill him there - it undermines the establishment's authority. Can't kick him out directly because he's under your protection. You're Winston... what do you do?
Hard to say really, we don't have a clear idea on the balance of power between the Continental and the High Table. Does one serve the other, or do they exist as equals? They've shown that the Continental
has many branches around the world
, and that they have their own enforcers to keep freelance assassins in line. The High Table remains a mystery and we'll probably have to wait for the third movie to find out more about them.
I think it's important to remember that the bounty placed on Wick's head by the council is separate from the Continental's punishment for breaking ground rules. John got a free pass from the latter, but that also means he no longer has access to the protection afforded by the Continental. Would he have been able to stay in the hotel indefinitely and avoid Santino's bounty on him, or would enterprising assassins break Continental law and ice him anyway? (aka Ms. Perkins).
There is no rule against killing high table members. Killing Wick is a power play that's common in crime movies. Yeah I hired you to wack my sibling, but she was still family and I can't appear weak by letting her death go unavenged even if it was by my hand. It's all about keeping up appearances even if everyone knows it's bullshit. Also it was to stop Wick from getting revenge on his house.
Saw a Thursday night showing yesterday, but I didn't get home until after midnight, and had work early the next day, so I couldn't post my impressions until now.
Anyway, I loved it. It was probably one of the best action sequels I've ever seen. It's pure balls to the walls action, and it's great. Keanu does another fantastic job, and everybody else brings their best. The directors seem to know exactly how to use the actors to the best of their capabilities. I wasn't too sure about Common and Ruby Rose (moreso the latter than the former, since I thought Common did a good job as the hitman in Run All Night with Liam Neeson), but their characters were used in a way that kept their strengths, and eliminated their weaknesses. Common is used as the stoic foil to John, a part he plays perfectly, and Rose's character never speaks, so you don't have to see her acting, and is portrayed as someone who's a bit in over their head. And seeing Fishburne and Keanu together again made the Matrix fan in me jump for joy. I also loved seeing the Continentale, and I loved meeting their Charon and Julius. The
pope
joke also got me laughing. The film manages to flesh out the underworld from the first one while keeping a sense of mystery to it. I was worried for a bit that they'd reveal too much and the world seem dull, but with every question they answered, they give you another one to ask (ex.
What exactly is the High Table?
)
I would put it on par with the first. That's how good it is. As a sequel, I would put it above the Raid 2. The movie had no moments where it seemed to drag, unlike the middle of R2.
The gunplay was great, and really creative. The scene where he reloaded the shotgun was the best, and showed just why the way the films uses guns works. It designs the encounters around the weapons and their real life capabilities. When John gets a gun with seven shots, he only gets seven shots, and needs to reload afterwards. It makes what happens feel all the more realistic.
The bulletproof suit and
the amount of assassins in New York
didn't bother me too much. The suit isn't perfect, as shown by John's bruises and the knife wound he gets in his fight with Common, and
he's bleeding after the violinist shoots him later in the film
. As for the second point,
it didn't actually show a huge number of people getting the phone call. I don't think it's too unbelievable that in a place near a Continental, and in a city as crowded as NY, there would be over 20 killers ready to hunt Wick down.
The encounters also manage to differentiate themselves from those in the first film. The
scene where he gets his car back
effortlessly combines hand-to-hand combat, gun-fu, and car-fu into one spectacular setpiece, where in the first film, you never had that interplay between car and guns. The
catacombs
is probably the most like those in the first film, and I thought the music worked well with the action in this one, though not as well as "Think" in the Red Circle from JW1. It's also different due to how the second half plays out, and how it ends. The
assassin hunt and the museum
action setpieces are completely original, and so unlike anything from the first film, that my jaw was on the floor during both of them.
What amazes me about the film is how the action is directed in such a way that you always know what's going on even in action scenes where you probably should have a hard time. The sequence in the catacombs probably showcases this best, and it's a true testament to the director's talent. The place is dark, and you sometimes have trouble seeing the characters. However, the entire scene has the camera stick close to John, almost like a third person video game, so you can easily tell where he is and what he's doing. The enemies also all use flashlights on their guns, so seeing the glare of a light tells the audience about a new enemy, and the light going off as the gun falls to the ground indicated John has killed them. It's something I noticed that's absolutely brilliant. Another is how the guards at the start of the last shootout all wear white jackets, contrasting with what John wears.
As for the audience in my theatre, they clapped when
John killed two people with a fucking peeencil.
And there was an audible gasp when
he killed Santino.
It was a tour de force, and I'd give it a 10/10 because of how fun and well put together it was. Can't wait for John Wick 3. Inject it in my veins.
This is so true. Compare it with Marvel or DC films for example, and you'll see the difference.
It's the difference between having your lead man (or woman) doing most of the stunts himself and not being afraid of getting hurt compared to having stunt(wo)men doing all the punching and kicking, so you have to cut around all of that.
And regarding the
pencil kill: I don't think I've ever heard/seen a more visceral reaction from a movie crowd in a theater to a kill
This is so true. Compare it with Marvel or DC films for example, and you'll see the difference.
It's the difference between having your lead man (or woman) doing most of the stunts himself and not being afraid of getting hurt compared to having stunt(wo)men doing all the punching and kicking, so you have to cut around all of that.
And regarding the
pencil kill: I don't think I've ever heard/seen a more visceral reaction from a movie crowd in a theater to a kill
Today I despair to find out that Sweden won't be getting a theatrical release of this movie because the first one bombed, even though it's gotten a Danish and Norwegian release.
Oh, I didn't realize you were on a treadmill at all. Well that explains it! You might want to make that a little more clear in future videos.
Were you inspired by John Kilduff, the "Let's Paint, Exercise, and Blend Drinks!" guy who also does videos while exercising? I haven't watched his videos in a long time, but they are certainly among my all-time favorites.
Haha that's *really* helpful to know! I'll make it clearer for folks so they don't think I'm jittery for no good reason. That said, does knowing I'm on a treadmill change how bothersome it was to watch? I haven't seen John K's stuff but I'll check out the channel (maybe learn some ways to improve ) Thanks again!
Wow this movie has to be one of my favorite action movies of all time, the enter the dragon mirror stuff was amazing. That low key subway shootout was one of the funniest things I've seen in a while because of how ridiculous it is.
Making time to see this next week. So so glad that this is getting such phenomenal reviews, especially for Keanu.
John Wick along with The Raid 2 are the two gems of modern action for me, two amazing moviea that can stand along with the gems of the past.
I purposely avoided all media and reviews for John Wick 2 for both fear of not living up to the first one and just because for one time I wanted to watch a movie where I don't even know the synopsis for it.
Today I despair to find out that Sweden won't be getting a theatrical release of this movie because the first one bombed, even though it's gotten a Danish and Norwegian release.
Best comparison I can give is this being Raid to Raid 2. Largely, the scale of the film completely changes and they build up the world around it rather than another singular focused adventure.
I will say, I think Wick 1 is better. It's more cohesive, simpler, and it works. But I do love the direction they took this one.
It starts off basically the same. Someone hyping him up, someone pissing him off, etc. But it's very clearly doing it for a different reason. Rather than him stumbling into these places, it's very clear he is back. You get to see that focus and determination they always talk about with Wick. That very exact and precise method. It's no longer someone from the outside, but the prodigal son returning.
And that is what the film is about... every action has a repercussion. At anytime, he could have said no. At anytime, any character he meet could have said no... but every single person always choices to either follow the rules or escalate the situation to get what they want. In a way, it's the exact opposite of 1.
Ideally, John Wick 3 needs to be about his death. He is very clearly looking for it, but is afraid to die. Basically, it needs to be about acceptance.
in the beginning when the marker was first introduced. It was why Wick just couldn't kill Santian or ignore the marker. Because of the High Table's rules
As for your second part,
why wouldn't an angry grieving crime boss put out a hit on the assassin that killed his sister?
The High Table rule seems to be secondary to the main two rules about honoring blood contracts and no business in the continental. Largely because it is probably only enforced by the High Table, while the Continental seems to be the Judges for the world.
Hence why I feel like that backed Wick into a corner. Him having killed a High Table is half the move, but he ends with being ExComm and it feels like it is an even greater punishment.
The High Table rule seems to be secondary to the main two rules about honoring blood contracts and no business in the continental. Largely because it is probably only enforced by the High Table, while the Continental seems to be the Judges for the world.
Hence why I feel like that backed Wick into a corner. Him having killed a High Table is half the move, but he ends with being ExComm and it feels like it is an even greater punishment.
It'll be interesting to learn what sort of benefits the Continental provided to its members. John being
excommunicated probably means loss of access to bullet-proof suits, weapons and backdoors. I'm super stoked to see John being the hunted instead of the hunter and I hope the next film takes him into deep shit.
Wow this movie has to be one of my favorite action movies of all time, the enter the dragon mirror stuff was amazing. That low key subway shootout was one of the funniest things I've seen in a while because of how ridiculous it is.
I felt the same way after I saw it. Like, I didn't want to come out and say it - because there really are so many incredible action flicks out there - but there's just something flat-out symphonic about the way this movie looks and feels. If they manage to wrap up John's story on a similarly high note, it could easily go down as a top 5 action franchise... and even if they somehow miss that mark, the grammar/choreography/stunt work in Chapter 2 earns its place in the action movie pantheon alongside stuff like Hardboiled, Enter The Dragon, Police Story, and The Raid.
Best comparison I can give is this being Raid to Raid 2. Largely, the scale of the film completely changes and they build up the world around it rather than another singular focused adventure.
I will say, I think Wick 1 is better. It's more cohesive, simpler, and it works. But I do love the direction they took this one.
It starts off basically the same. Someone hyping him up, someone pissing him off, etc. But it's very clearly doing it for a different reason. Rather than him stumbling into these places, it's very clear he is back. You get to see that focus and determination they always talk about with Wick. That very exact and precise method. It's no longer someone from the outside, but the prodigal son returning.
And that is what the film is about... every action has a repercussion. At anytime, he could have said no. At anytime, any character he meet could have said no... but every single person always choices to either follow the rules or escalate the situation to get what they want. In a way, it's the exact opposite of 1.
Ideally, John Wick 3 needs to be about his death. He is very clearly looking for it, but is afraid to die. Basically, it needs to be about acceptance.
I agree with pretty much all this. Sums up pretty much all my thoughts on the movie very succinctly.
But I gotta say I don't know if I would [speculation on chapter 3 ]
want John to die, or finally get the peaceful life he wants. Him living would admittedly be super unrealistic given how fucked everything is now, but I'll be damned if I don't have enough affection for the character that I want to see him get a happy ending.
) Thanks again!