Joint Nokia/MS conference next week. *Rumor* Nokia adopting Windows Mobile

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canova said:
He gets it after the facts, what so special about that? 'oh look our pie is gone, guess Apple and Google ate it.' duh!
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Elop started at Nokia at the end of last September.
 
Burger said:
Yeah I'm not sure a unified platform is a great idea for anyone.

Look at Android. Manufacturers only use it because it's essentially free/very low cost when compared to an internally developed operating system. The only problem is it becomes difficult to differentiate from everyone else who uses it. It's good for consumers as everyone ends up undercutting each other, but it's terrible for your margins.
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Nearly every computer you buy nowadays uses Windows and you never see anyone complaining about this.

These companies build hardware and that's how they differentiate themselves by building cool stuff.

yeah, they're never going to make Apple size profits but then they never were to begin with.
 
Firestorm said:
I wouldn't say it's too late really. The Nokia brand still holds sway I would think. It's just their software is an unusable mess. I'm thinking that if Microsoft and Nokia can do what Verizon and Motorola did for the Droid X, we will see them really turn around in the higher end.
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It is too late. While Nokia is busy figuring it out what their strategy for smartphones. Their competitors already moved on to the next phase, tablets.

This Nokia-WP7 partnership, if it indeed comes to fruition, doesn't make sense. They try to recapture their shrinking market share by going with a dead platform in smartphone? Even worse is that the platform maker, Microsoft, has no strategy or vision for tablets.
 
lol? Smartphones are dead?

Tablets are the ones that are going to be in trouble, smart phones are getting more powerful and can do anything tablets can do. Laptops are there if you need anything srs, tablets are in an awful neverland between the two of simply being luxury devices that dont really fill any role well.
 
markot said:
lol? Smartphones are dead?

Tablets are the ones that are going to be in trouble, smart phones are getting more powerful and can do anything tablets can do. Laptops are there if you need anything srs, tablets are in an awful neverland between the two of simply being luxury devices that dont really fill any role well.
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sorry I meant dead mobile OS, WP7
 
markot said:
lol? Smartphones are dead?

Tablets are the ones that are going to be in trouble, smart phones are getting more powerful and can do anything tablets can do. Laptops are there if you need anything srs, tablets are in an awful neverland between the two of simply being luxury devices that dont really fill any role well.
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Haha.
 
D4Danger said:
Nearly every computer you buy nowadays uses Windows and you never see anyone complaining that it's too difficult to differentiate yourself.

These companies build hardware, that's what they do and that how they differentiate themselves by building cool stuff.
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The PC hardware market is stuffed with cookie cutter laptops that offer very little differentiation. It's exactly the same. They have to compete on hardware because they know that Joe Schmoe Laptops installs exactly the same software.

The Android market is similar. Why do you think all these skins like Touch Wiz, HTC Sense, etc exist? To try and offer some point of difference outside of the hardware.

It's the same for Windows Phone 7. Looking at the 11 or so launch models, you would be forgiven for thinking that they were all prototypes of the same phone. Except that giant Dell model maybe.
 
canova said:
It is too late. While Nokia is busy figuring it out what their strategy for smartphones. Their competitors already moved on to the next phase, tablets.

This Nokia-WP7 partnership, if it indeed comes to fruition, doesn't make sense. They try to recapture their shrinking market share by going with a dead platform in smartphone? Even worse is that the platform maker, Microsoft, has no strategy or vision for tablets.
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Tablets aren't a smartphone replacement. They are a supplement. And honestly, aside from RIM and Samsung (I think), I haven't see even much interplay between the phone and tablet. It seems like everyone else is selling them as completely different products without relation.

Android is a great platform. However, I can see the risks and cons of Android being particularly harsh on Nokia so it makes sense they would go with Microsoft if offered the right incentive. Given Elop's relationship with Microsoft, it's not too crazy to assume he has been able to work something out with them.
 
canova said:
He gets it after the facts, what so special about that? 'oh look our pie is gone, guess Apple and Google ate it.' duh!
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You realize that the CEO hasn't been with the company for 3 years, right? He just joined the company a few months ago coming from Microsoft.
 
D4Danger said:
Nearly every computer you buy nowadays uses Windows and you never see anyone complaining about this.
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analprobe.jpg
 
markot said:
lol? Smartphones are dead?

Tablets are the ones that are going to be in trouble, smart phones are getting more powerful and can do anything tablets can do. Laptops are there if you need anything srs, tablets are in an awful neverland between the two of simply being luxury devices that dont really fill any role well.
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where are you getting this doom and gloom about the tablet market from? 15 million ipads were sold in 9 months.

the market is just starting. it's going to be huge - and, yeah, notebook sales are hurting because of it.
 
Firestorm said:
Tablets aren't a smartphone replacement. They are a supplement. And honestly, aside from RIM and Samsung (I think), I haven't see even much interplay between the phone and tablet. It seems like everyone else is selling them as completely different products without relation.

Android is a great platform. However, I can see the risks and cons of Android being particularly harsh on Nokia so it makes sense they would go with Microsoft if offered the right incentive. Given Elop's relationship with Microsoft, it's not too crazy to assume he has been able to work something out with them.
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Let say Nokia does choose MS as partner, how do they expect to expand to tablet?

don't look at MS, because MS themselves has no idea to tackle tablet market
 
canova said:
Let say Nokia does choose MS as partner, how do they expect to expand to tablet?

don't look at MS, because MS themselves has no idea to tackle tablet market
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I have no answer to that. Dell seems to think it does. We'll see how it plays out.
 
canova said:
Let say Nokia does choose MS as partner, how do they expect to expand to tablet?

don't look at MS, because MS themselves has no idea to tackle tablet market
Click to expand...


Once MS realises Windows 7 can't cut it as a tablet OS I guess they will scale WP7 upwards.

On the other hand going with Google as a partner would mean large competitive pressure. WP7 has set hardware requirements so low end manufacturers are excluded from the market, of course MS will have probably sweetened the deal with some monetary concessions. IMO this will make WP7 a true competitor through the Nokia brand name - win, win for everyone.
 
LCfiner said:
where are you getting this doom and gloom about the tablet market from? 15 million ipads were sold in 9 months.
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Which means that it still remains to be seen whether there will be an ongoing market for them. I get Markot's point, if your smartphone can do everything which a tablet can do and more then why do you need a tablet? At that stage it becomes a nice accessory to have, but it's far from being a necessity.

LCfiner said:
the market is just starting. it's going to be huge - and, yeah, notebook sales are hurting because of it.
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Has this ever been established? Not saying it hasn't, but the last thing I remember was a guy from Best Buy being misquoted by the press as saying notebooks when he actually said netbooks.
 
Its not really doom and gloom, just my opinion. I dont think typing on a screen will even be as comfortable or intuitive as typing on a keyboard. So I dont think laptops are going anywhere. And tablets seem too big to me to take over from smart phones... I mean, you can put your phone in your pocket these days and do pretty much everything you can do on a computer.

I just think that tablets are a kind of niche that wont get that big, and is under threat from shrinking laptops and much more powerful smart phones.
 
jim-jam bongs said:
Which means that it still remains to be seen whether there will be an ongoing market for them. I get Markot's point, if your smartphone can do everything which a tablet can do and more then why do you need a tablet? At that stage it becomes a nice accessory to have, but it's far from being a necessity.
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Firstly, size does matter. Even if they're identical on a hardware level there is still more than can be done on a bigger screen quicker and more efficiently.

Also, your smartphone can do ~80% of the mainstream functions your laptop/desktop can do. Face it. All these devices are rapidly converging, and soon it will not be about *what* each device an do, it's about *how.*
 
jim-jam bongs said:
Which means that it still remains to be seen whether there will be an ongoing market for them. I get Markot's point, if your smartphone can do everything which a tablet can do and more then why do you need a tablet? At that stage it becomes a nice accessory to have, but it's far from being a necessity.



Has this ever been established? Not saying it hasn't, but the last thing I remember was a guy from Best Buy being misquoted by the press as saying notebooks when he actually said netbooks.
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smartphone market is certainly bigger than the tablet market but he was assuming that notebook sales will squeeze out tablets. a tablet may not be a necessity but neither is a smartphone. what's gonna happen is that more and more people will find they prefer using a tablet for the basic web stuff (and some fun stuff) that they used to use a laptop for (it's lighter, easier to use, gets better battery, is more portable, etc).

Apple said at their last investor call that the ipad cannibalized macbook sales to a certain extent. and I am fairly certain that some other CEO's of computer companies said netbook sales had dropped for them and they "blamed" the ipad. but this is the only link I found in a quick search (sorry, don't feel like hunting for more)
 
jim-jam bongs said:
Which means that it still remains to be seen whether there will be an ongoing market for them. I get Markot's point, if your smartphone can do everything which a tablet can do and more then why do you need a tablet? At that stage it becomes a nice accessory to have, but it's far from being a necessity.
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People who say smartphones can do everything tablets can completely miss the additional utility gained through a larger screen and resolution. Why would anyone buy an iPad over an iPod touch if that wasn’t the case?

These are supplemental markets. Tablets compete with the computer market.

Has this ever been established? Not saying it hasn't, but the last thing I remember was a guy from Best Buy being misquoted by the press as saying notebooks when he actually said netbooks.
Click to expand...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/14/ipad-netbook-sales
 
LCfiner said:
smartphone market is certainly bigger than the tablet market but he was assuming that notebook sales will squeeze out tablets. a tablet may not be a necessity but neither is a smartphone. what's gonna happen is that more and more people will find they prefer using a tablet for the basic web stuff (and some fun stuff) that they used to use a laptop for (it's lighter, easier to use, gets better battery, is more portable, etc).

Apple said at their last investor call that the ipad cannibalized macbook sales to a certain extent. and I am fairly certain that some other CEO's of computer companies said netbook sales had dropped for them and they "blamed" the ipad. but this is the only link I found in a quick search (sorry, don't fl like hunting for more)
Click to expand...

do macbook sale even compare to idevices any ways. I thought they were not that famous anyways compare to I device.
 
canova said:
Let say Nokia does choose MS as partner, how do they expect to expand to tablet?

don't look at MS, because MS themselves has no idea to tackle tablet market
Click to expand...

s04162396a.jpg



may be they can revive this. I will buy it in heart bit.
 
crazy monkey said:
do macbook sale even compare to idevices any ways. I thought they were not that famous anyways compare to I device.
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mac sales are around 20% of Apple's income. Not as big as the iphone (~40%) but more than ipods.

157242-corrected-results_original.png
 
markot said:
Except that having a monopoly doesnt do crap for innovation.
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It should do though. Monopoly -> money, so the bigger companies should have loads of money to put into R&D, and that's exactly what Nokia do - they put a lot of money in R&D, more than anyone else. Although as we know that gets them nowhere. Which makes no sense.

I don't understand business (but I would like a Nokia WP7 phone).
 
Apple sold more iPads than their entire laptop line (MacBook, Pro, Air) put together last quarter. Tablets are not a smartphone replacement. They're not a laptop replacement. They're a supplemental technology piece that is growing and businesses are definitely interested in them.
 
The size factor is definitely an issue, but I think that the bulk of the market will always settle for the "good enough" technology over the best, hence the Windows hegemony. I guess I just see that as being the biggest problem for widespread tablet adoption, not just iPad.

Time will tell. At this stage I think the majority of consumers see tablets as being somewhere in between two places which they already bounce between, i.e. mobile/smartphone computing and desktop computing, whereas they see computers and smartphones as either necessary or close to it.
 
jim-jam bongs said:
The size factor is definitely an issue, but I think that the bulk of the market will always settle for the "good enough" technology over the best, hence the Windows hegemony. I guess I just see that as being the biggest problem for widespread tablet adoption, not just iPad.

Time will tell. At this stage I think the majority of consumers see tablets as being somewhere in between two places which they already bounce between, i.e. mobile/smartphone computing and desktop computing, whereas they see computers and smartphones as either necessary or close to it.
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When was the last time betting against Steve Jobs put you on top?

Answer: A long long time ago.
 
Firestorm said:
I wouldn't say it's too late really. The Nokia brand still holds sway I would think. It's just their software is an unusable mess. I'm thinking that if Microsoft and Nokia can do what Verizon and Motorola did for the Droid X, we will see them really turn around in the higher end.
Click to expand...


Nah - to build an ecosystem they can't just fix the OS, they have to build an entire multi-sided platform. They have to find a way to bring developers back to Nokia - especially since we don't want to support YET ANOTHER PLATFORM. I'd rather they die or run Android than have iOS, Android, WebOS, Windows 7, and RIMjob on top of their platform.
 
I wonder if they'll start hiring and firing people. The memo lays out a lot of institutional problems (leadership, attitude, etc.) that can't be just fixed by adopting a new OS.
 
one of the biggest problem is definitely the middle management/bosses..

They have managed to kill all the enthusiasm and work atmosphere..

And when Nokia became the biggest phone manufacturer the development of phones just seemed to stall.. meaning the management just wanted to maximize profits.

Nothing ever seemed to get out of r&d to the phones even though they have some amazing stuff in there..
 
My guess is that instead of adopting a UI independently they will join a company instead. Like Samsung, Motorola and the likes.
 
Vic is an ass, but he's great on stage! Him and Andy make a scary 1-2 punch.

Interesting week in the mobile sector, we got HP today and the rumored nokia/MS later this week. 2011 is going to be great, I love all this competition brewing up. Going to make my Iphone 5/6 that much better :)
 
What an asshole! :lol
That's such a hilarious burn.
 
Vyse The Legend said:
Are people actually excited for a Microsoft-Nokia union? I'm unsure if some people are being serious here or not.
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Well those of us with WP7 devices would likely gain from increased developer interest - not that it's low right now. Other than that, it's an interesting spectacle. Like all device "wars" it's just a bit of fun to get involved with.
 
Tobor said:
It's amazing how many people still don't get what Apple does. You can't just have Steve announce any old phone and boom, get a winner.

The N8 would never have been cleared by Jobs for release, let alone him announcing it on stage.

Also, lol at Google trolling. WP7 + Nokia must be real.
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agreed on the core software usability front. But that article emphasises how Apple focuses on user journies really well - explains technology in ways that it matters to people, not tech blogs. Reinventing stuff like facetime, which we've had in smartphones for years, but nobody has really used before.

You do all that and it makes the N8 sound really desirable. It just needs that little bit more to make it a usable device. Its not massively flawed - its good hardware, and the flexibility of the software is excellent. It just needs the equivalent of HTCs android skin on it, to hide some of the clunk and streamline it.

Gravity is a great showcase for what you can do on a symbian device. You could just skin the whole phone like that, hide the complex stuff under the hood a little, and fancy up the homescreen a bit more and you'd had a quality smartphone. App store needs more developers, but Qt is a good call on that front, lets see what the tools are like
 
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