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[itxaka]

I don't think you guys understand that nokia is huge in europe. I understand that the iphone is the hot thing in the states but nokia is an established brand here and stills keep selling a lot of phones. They won't fall that easy.

 

[Burger]

I don't think you guys understand that nokia is huge in europe. I understand that the iphone is the hot thing in the states but nokia is an established brand here and stills keep selling a lot of phones. They won't fall that easy.

They are selling heaps of cheap, shitty phones. Pretty soon every phone sold will be a smartphone, and Nokia doesn't have a clear strategy on how to get there.

Nokia isn't the company it used to be.

 

[VanMardigan]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

 

[Fatalah]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

 

[dream]

I bet most average people want iPhones.

 

[LCfiner]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

they're making shit profits per unit selling the dumbphones. the money (and future) is in smartphones and their smartphone platform is a hot mess compared to their competition.

You can leave the bullshit fanboy charges out of this. Nokia needs to get their shit together to be healthy in the next decade.

 

[VanMardigan]

I bet most average people want iPhones.

I bet by average people you mean a young, middle income american/western European. And given sales, that's STILL not accurate.

Edit: LC, I was pointing out the phones weren't shitty. They do what a cell phone does, very well. I agree with your view on the direction of the market and nokia's financial situation.

 

[CiSTM]

I don't think you guys understand that nokia is huge in europe. I understand that the iphone is the hot thing in the states but nokia is an established brand here and stills keep selling a lot of phones. They won't fall that easy.

It's not just europe, they are still far the biggest fish in the pond when it comes over all sales of cellphones but when it comes to smartphone shares they aren't that much ahead in any market place. Android has surpassed symbian world wide (smartphone) and while Nokia still has lead in europe it will change this year. Nokia will stay as biggest mobile phone manufacturer 'cos they are still the kings of lower end phones and their market share in India and China is growing every year but when it comes to smartphones Nokia got no game, they will continue to lose more ground and I would say Samsung is going to beat them in the smartphone market in few years

 

[KtSlime]

I bet by average people you mean a young, middle income american/western European. And given sales, that's STILL not accurate.

What do they want and how come you aren't inventing it and capitalizing on such a broad desire?

 

[navanman]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

Even my some what tech illiterate parents have both changed from Nokia dump phone to Samsung Android smartphones.
I had a N78 and my sister had a 5800 music xpress and we both changed to HTC Desires.

The times they are changing and Nokia is being left behind.

 

[Burger]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

What's wrong with you?

 

[VanMardigan]

Even my some what tech illiterate parents have both changed from Nokia dump phone to Samsung Android smartphones.
I had a N78 and my sister had a 5800 music xpress and we both changed to HTC Desires.

The times they are changing and Nokia is being left behind.

Your post failed to disprove anything in my post. Its like you were actually intending to agree with me.

 

[clav]

What's wrong with you?

Unless you're just trolling, you would see his point.

A lot of people who use cell phones just need it for calling or texting. Most commoners don't need anything else especially at the cost of how much cell phone carriers charge for plans with data.

The Nokia phones are known to be easy to use to do those two basic things: calling and texting.

Everything else is a luxury.

 

[venne]

I bet most average people want iPhones.

Don't forget about the wifis and geebees.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

Don't be so mad, bro. There's room for all sorts of opinions 'round here.

 

[Phoenix]

They are selling heaps of cheap, shitty phones. Pretty soon every phone sold will be a smartphone, and Nokia doesn't have a clear strategy on how to get there.

Nokia isn't the company it used to be.

This is the correct answer. There is a reason why Nokia is losing share hand over fist, why they had to give away their OS and then why they had to shudder it when nobody cared anymore. Nokia is in a global recession and so long as they have their hopes on Symbian OS, they are just a turd circling the drain slowly but surely.

 

[numble]

Those phones aren't shitty. They are the best dumbphones on the market. You Apple fuckers have such a twisted ass world view that you forget what an average person wants or needs. And its not a Mac, tablet, and iPhone.

LOL, his post wasn't even about Apple. He says they don't have a good smartphone strategy and he's right--they lost nearly 15% of the smartphone market in one year:

Meanwhile, there are shit profits in cheap dumbphones, and ZTE and Huawei are overtaking Nokia in dumbphone marketshare in developing countries.

 

[VanMardigan]

Of course he's trolling, its frickin burger! He'll troll the shit out everything non-Apple then get all indignant with the smallest perceived slight thrown his direction. "What's wrong with you"? Lol, classic. Never mind he just trolled the entire Nokia low end phone line calling it point blank shitty.

Edit: oh shit, tag team troll kano is in da house!

 

[Burger]

Unless you're just trolling, you would see his point.

A lot of people who use cell phones just need it for calling or texting. Most commoners don't need anything else especially at the cost of how much cell phone carriers charge for plans with data.

The Nokia phones are known to be easy to use to do those two basic things: calling and texting.

Everything else is a luxury.

They are shitty in that they don't make any money for Nokia. Look at their ASP for gods sake. It's miniscule.

These 'dumbphones' make Nokia into what they are today. In the last 5 years the world has moved on, and Nokia doesn't have a plan.

 

[clav]

They are shitty in that they don't make any money for Nokia. Look at their ASP for gods sake. It's miniscule.

These 'dumbphones' make Nokia into what they are today. In the last 5 years the world has moved on, and Nokia doesn't have a plan.

Ok that's much better. Your previous statement implied that the phones themselves were shitty for anything.

Yeah Nokia doesn't have a platform or favorable interface that can go beyond those two things.

I still see that cell phone companies are hindering progression for adopting wifi + data on cell phones with the requirements of spending on an expensive data plan, so unless something changes about pricing structure, Nokia potentially can still live without changing its infrastructure.

 

[Burger]

Ok that's much better. Your previous statement implied that the phones themselves were shitty for anything.

Yeah Nokia doesn't have an interface that can go beyond those two things.

No they aren't useless. They are just a little, 'emerging markets' that's all. Most are given away by carriers these days because they cost so little, especially if you can tie them into a plan. The carriers are the only people making money off these feature phones.

 

[VanMardigan]

I was so pissed when my parents used their upgrade on two dumpphones. At&t made off like bandits. I told them that they lost several hundred that they could've made by buying iPhone 4's and selling them on ebay, then buying two cheap phones.

 

[tino]

I wonder how many $15 1661 Nokia has to sell in Africa in order to keep it's marketshare?


And I'm serious when I said $15 unsubsidized Nokia 1661. Anyone remember how much the cheapest Nokia use to cost a few years ago?


Does anyone remember name of cool Nokia 8000 series phone when they had the changable color faceplates? I used to envied my classmate who had it. You know when TMobile USA used to call Voice Stream? :lol:

 

[Polk]

I never said it was impossible. What I implied was impossible is for a competitor to launch a mobile OS that is nothing more but an alternative that adds very little to the table to expect mass success.

Plus
- vast majority of the phones are bought with contract and almost none will buy next one before end of the contract
- you need something more than little better experience to accept losing hundreds of dollars "lost" software.

 

[Burger]

I was so pissed when my parents used their upgrade on two dumpphones. At&t made off like bandits. I told them that they lost several hundred that they could've made by buying iPhone 4's and selling them on ebay, then buying two cheap phones.

Hey look, you almost agreed with me there, instead of going off on some weird anti-Apple rant. Amazing.

 

[LCfiner]

If this memo from the Nokia CEO is real, then it's really awesome.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/

Hello there,

There is a pertinent story about a man who was working on an oil platform in the North Sea. He woke up one night from a loud explosion, which suddenly set his entire oil platform on fire. In mere moments, he was surrounded by flames. Through the smoke and heat, he barely made his way out of the chaos to the platform's edge. When he looked down over the edge, all he could see were the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters.

As the fire approached him, the man had mere seconds to react. He could stand on the platform, and inevitably be consumed by the burning flames. Or, he could plunge 30 meters in to the freezing waters. The man was standing upon a "burning platform," and he needed to make a choice.

He decided to jump. It was unexpected. In ordinary circumstances, the man would never consider plunging into icy waters. But these were not ordinary times - his platform was on fire. The man survived the fall and the waters. After he was rescued, he noted that a "burning platform" caused a radical change in his behaviour.

We too, are standing on a "burning platform," and we must decide how we are going to change our behaviour.

Over the past few months, I've shared with you what I've heard from our shareholders, operators, developers, suppliers and from you. Today, I'm going to share what I've learned and what I have come to believe.

I have learned that we are standing on a burning platform.

And, we have more than one explosion - we have multiple points of scorching heat that are fuelling a blazing fire around us.

For example, there is intense heat coming from our competitors, more rapidly than we ever expected. Apple disrupted the market by redefining the smartphone and attracting developers to a closed, but very powerful ecosystem.

In 2008, Apple's market share in the $300+ price range was 25 percent; by 2010 it escalated to 61 percent. They are enjoying a tremendous growth trajectory with a 78 percent earnings growth year over year in Q4 2010. Apple demonstrated that if designed well, consumers would buy a high-priced phone with a great experience and developers would build applications. They changed the game, and today, Apple owns the high-end range.

And then, there is Android. In about two years, Android created a platform that attracts application developers, service providers and hardware manufacturers. Android came in at the high-end, they are now winning the mid-range, and quickly they are going downstream to phones under €100. Google has become a gravitational force, drawing much of the industry's innovation to its core.

Let's not forget about the low-end price range. In 2008, MediaTek supplied complete reference designs for phone chipsets, which enabled manufacturers in the Shenzhen region of China to produce phones at an unbelievable pace. By some accounts, this ecosystem now produces more than one third of the phones sold globally - taking share from us in emerging markets.

While competitors poured flames on our market share, what happened at Nokia? We fell behind, we missed big trends, and we lost time. At that time, we thought we were making the right decisions; but, with the benefit of hindsight, we now find ourselves years behind.

The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don't have a product that is close to their experience. Android came on the scene just over 2 years ago, and this week they took our leadership position in smartphone volumes. Unbelievable.

We have some brilliant sources of innovation inside Nokia, but we are not bringing it to market fast enough. We thought MeeGo would be a platform for winning high-end smartphones. However, at this rate, by the end of 2011, we might have only one MeeGo product in the market.

At the midrange, we have Symbian. It has proven to be non-competitive in leading markets like North America. Additionally, Symbian is proving to be an increasingly difficult environment in which to develop to meet the continuously expanding consumer requirements, leading to slowness in product development and also creating a disadvantage when we seek to take advantage of new hardware platforms. As a result, if we continue like before, we will get further and further behind, while our competitors advance further and further ahead.

At the lower-end price range, Chinese OEMs are cranking out a device much faster than, as one Nokia employee said only partially in jest, "the time that it takes us to polish a PowerPoint presentation." They are fast, they are cheap, and they are challenging us.

And the truly perplexing aspect is that we're not even fighting with the right weapons. We are still too often trying to approach each price range on a device-to-device basis.

The battle of devices has now become a war of ecosystems, where ecosystems include not only the hardware and software of the device, but developers, applications, ecommerce, advertising, search, social applications, location-based services, unified communications and many other things. Our competitors aren't taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem. This means we're going to have to decide how we either build, catalyse or join an ecosystem.

This is one of the decisions we need to make. In the meantime, we've lost market share, we've lost mind share and we've lost time.

On Tuesday, Standard & Poor's informed that they will put our A long term and A-1 short term ratings on negative credit watch. This is a similar rating action to the one that Moody's took last week. Basically it means that during the next few weeks they will make an analysis of Nokia, and decide on a possible credit rating downgrade. Why are these credit agencies contemplating these changes? Because they are concerned about our competitiveness.

Consumer preference for Nokia declined worldwide. In the UK, our brand preference has slipped to 20 percent, which is 8 percent lower than last year. That means only 1 out of 5 people in the UK prefer Nokia to other brands. It's also down in the other markets, which are traditionally our strongholds: Russia, Germany, Indonesia, UAE, and on and on and on.
How did we get to this point? Why did we fall behind when the world around us evolved?

This is what I have been trying to understand. I believe at least some of it has been due to our attitude inside Nokia. We poured gasoline on our own burning platform. I believe we have lacked accountability and leadership to align and direct the company through these disruptive times. We had a series of misses. We haven't been delivering innovation fast enough. We're not collaborating internally.

Nokia, our platform is burning.

We are working on a path forward -- a path to rebuild our market leadership. When we share the new strategy on February 11, it will be a huge effort to transform our company. But, I believe that together, we can face the challenges ahead of us. Together, we can choose to define our future.

The burning platform, upon which the man found himself, caused the man to shift his behaviour, and take a bold and brave step into an uncertain future. He was able to tell his story. Now, we have a great opportunity to do the same.

Stephen.

 

[VanMardigan]

Hey look, you almost agreed with me there, instead of going off on some weird anti-Apple rant. Amazing.

Well you did fix your "Nokia makes nothing but cheap shitty phones" post, so *cheers*.
Besides, I think that aside from that we were always on the same page in terms of where Nokia is in the market and what it needs.

Plus, I don't want another kano "you mad" post. I've gotten like three this week. Dude needs new material.

Edit: that letter is awesome.

 

[dream]

Wow, that's a shockingly honest memo.

 

[Polk]

If this memo from the Nokia CEO is real, then it's really awesome.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/

I'm bit unfamiliar but do Canadians use "ou" instead of "o"?

 

[numble]

If this memo from the Nokia CEO is real, then it's really awesome.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/

Nice. Addresses all of their problem points (except for the future strategy, which they will leave out for their event). Both their dumbphone and smartphone markets have been attacked and have lost market share. I don't think their future lies in dumb phones--like he says, they can't compete with Chinese (and Indian) manufacturers.

 

[clav]

3 days.

If that's true, Friday will be a megaton announcement.

Forgot about how the Chinese manufacturers are beating Nokia in the basic utility category.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Well you did fix your "Nokia makes nothing but cheap shitty phones" post, so *cheers*.
Besides, I think that aside from that we were always on the same page in terms of where Nokia is in the market and what it needs.

Plus, I don't want another kano "you mad" post. I've gotten like three this week. Dude needs new material.

 

[Firestorm]

If this memo from the Nokia CEO is real, then it's really awesome.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/

*clap.gif*

 

[crazy monkey]

This is my current phone. It is awesome. It is missing wifi. But it has free gps. If it had wifi it would be very very awesome. I bought it unlocked for $120.

 

[LCfiner]

I'm bit unfamiliar but do Canadians use "ou" instead of "o"?

Absolutely

see:

that shit happens automatic

 

[numble]

It seems completely clear from the memo that Meego is being abandoned, and possibly Symbian.

We have some brilliant sources of innovation inside Nokia, but we are not bringing it to market fast enough. We thought MeeGo would be a platform for winning high-end smartphones. However, at this rate, by the end of 2011, we might have only one MeeGo product in the market.

At the midrange, we have Symbian. It has proven to be non-competitive in leading markets like North America. Additionally, Symbian is proving to be an increasingly difficult environment in which to develop to meet the continuously expanding consumer requirements, leading to slowness in product development and also creating a disadvantage when we seek to take advantage of new hardware platforms. As a result, if we continue like before, we will get further and further behind, while our competitors advance further and further ahead.

 

[navanman]

It seems completely clear from the memo that Meego is being abandoned, and possibly Symbian.

I'd guess you are right. Mentioning that that they might not have a single product on the market using Meego in 2011 is shocking. What's all this time and money being spent on?

Also he didn't mention WP7 once? Coincidence or not?

 

[D4Danger]

If this memo from the Nokia CEO is real, then it's really awesome.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/

.

The battle of devices has now become a war of ecosystems, where ecosystems include not only the hardware and software of the device, but developers, applications, ecommerce, advertising, search, social applications, location-based services, unified communications and many other things. Our competitors aren't taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem. This means we're going to have to decide how we either build, catalyse or join an ecosystem.

/slow clap

 

[lunarworks]

This is my current phone. It is awesome. It is missing wifi. But it has free gps. If it had wifi it would be very very awesome. I bought it unlocked for $120.

I've got the 5800. The same phone, but with a better camera and WiFi. I like it a lot. I'd like it better if Symbian didn't suck so much. :/

Our competitors aren't taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem.

That's Nokia's big problem. They've always been a "device" company. They put out a staggering amount of phone models. I read recently that their MeeGo team was constantly battling with management for more attention because of this.

 

[Canova]

.


/slow clap

why u clapping? They just realized how it worked 3 years too late

 

[giga]

Nokia’s CEO gets it. I don’t know if their fans do though, going by some of the responses in this thread.

 

[Firestorm]

why u clapping? They just realized how it worked 3 years too late

I wouldn't say it's too late really. The Nokia brand still holds sway I would think. It's just their software is an unusable mess. I'm thinking that if Microsoft and Nokia can do what Verizon and Motorola did for the Droid X, we will see them really turn around in the higher end.

 

[tino]

This is my current phone. It is awesome. It is missing wifi. But it has free gps. If it had wifi it would be very very awesome. I bought it unlocked for $120.

Should have spent less than $100 on either a Palm Pre Plus or a Pixi Plus.

edit: I read the Elop article, interesting he spent like 3 sentences on ShenZhen cheap phones, as if he will have a strategy to fight it. I just don't see any way for Nokia to fight the low end.

 

[Canova]

Nokia’s CEO gets it. I don’t know if their fans do though, going by some of the responses in this thread.

He gets it after the facts, what so special about that? 'oh look our pie is gone, guess Apple and Google ate it.' duh!

 

[D4Danger]

why u clapping? They just realized how it worked 3 years too late

sorry, that was me clapping sarcasticly because it's taking them so long to realise what the problem is.

The idea of getting everyone onto a unified platform isn't exactly a new idea; which is why 95% of the world's computer run Windows not 50 different types of bullshit from the OEMs.

 

[markot]

sorry, that was me clapping sarcasticly because it's taking them so long to realise what the problem is.

The idea of getting everyone onto a unified platform isn't exactly a new idea; which is why 95% of the world's computer run Windows not 50 different types of bullshit from the OEMs.

Yeah, its really hurt Apple.

 

[D4Danger]

Yeah, its really hurt Apple.

I'm talking about hardware manufacturers.

So yes, Apple do make computers, but they've always done their own thing and don't license their software and they're not what I was talking about.

 

[markot]

Except that having a monopoly doesnt do crap for innovation.

Look at Internet Explorer, when they got a monopoly, bam, worst browser in existence thats crumbling like an apple crumble. We need multiple os's out there in the smart phone world to keep competition going and innovation up.

Few people would argue that the Microsoft near monopoly has been all that great.

 

[Burger]

Yeah I'm not sure a unified platform is a great idea for anyone.

Look at Android. Manufacturers only use it because it's essentially free/very low cost when compared to an internally developed operating system. The only problem is it becomes difficult to differentiate from everyone else who uses it. It's good for consumers as everyone ends up undercutting each other, but it's terrible for your margins.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

Before reading that memo I didnt care about Nokia. But after reading it I do care. I dont know if there announcements will be what we want, or what they need. But seeing someone step up like, and making the company to take the blame. In an honest but inspiring way means they will try their very best to do what it takes. And thats all that anyone can ever ask of overs or themselves.