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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure |OT| Get back, Stand up
- Thread starter SolarKnight
- Start date
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Werewolf Jones
Member
Professor Renegade
Banned
So I just finished reading Part 5 for the first time a few days ago, and it was alright. I felt that it wasn't as good as the previous parts, but it was still a good read, there were a lot of cool characters and interesting stands (like Metallica!). I didn't really feel a connection to Giorno like I did with the other Jojos, like I get he's the polar opposite of his dad, but at times he felt a bit plain. I think he was missing a some kind of quirk to him, like Joseph's comedic nature or Josuke's tendency to ruthlessly defend his hair.
I think Abbacchio was my favourite out of the main group. His backstory seemed to carry a lot of weight in comparison to the others, and when he died I was fucking speechless.
Can someone give me a detailed explanation of King Crimson's power? Like, I get that he can erase time and no one can remember that period of erased time since it doesn't exist, but how exactly is it able to predict what will happen? And what was that thing when Buccellati punched his past/future(?) self?
For that matter, how exactly could Gold Experience Requiem counter King Crimson's ability?
Anyway, I just started reading Part 6 toe days ago, and so far I'm already liking it a whole lot better. Jolyene is so cool!
I think Abbacchio was my favourite out of the main group. His backstory seemed to carry a lot of weight in comparison to the others, and when he died I was fucking speechless.
Can someone give me a detailed explanation of King Crimson's power? Like, I get that he can erase time and no one can remember that period of erased time since it doesn't exist, but how exactly is it able to predict what will happen? And what was that thing when Buccellati punched his past/future(?) self?
For that matter, how exactly could Gold Experience Requiem counter King Crimson's ability?
Anyway, I just started reading Part 6 toe days ago, and so far I'm already liking it a whole lot better. Jolyene is so cool!
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
Part 5 for me is the weakest Jojo part, though part 8 could take that title of worst Jojo part if it doesn't improve more.
My Rankings
7>2>6>4>>1=3>8>5
My Rankings
7>2>6>4>>1=3>8>5
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Part 5 has an awful translation so they keep changing how they think King Crimson works and it makes no sense.
King Crimson is lag. Good description from the Wiki -
Epitath is King Crimson's second ability, the little, small King Crimson face on the Stand's forehead. Because Doppio/Diavalo are so split personality that they can count as two different people, Epitath is technically Doppio's stand.
Tizoc
Member
Agreed.
King Crimson alters reality; it can see events as it will happen, then Diavolo will use its powers to alter how things occur.
However, in doing so, it can cause 2 realities to clash, which explains
how Bruno saw himself die right before his very own eyes
KC would have some time travel powers in it too I guess.
The translation may be terrible, but King Crimson makes no sense in the original Japanese either.
M0nochromatic
Member
After I read part 5 I spent hours searching for discussions to try to understand how it worked.
Almost everyone ended with someone posting the "it just works" pic.
Almost everyone ended with someone posting the "it just works" pic.
Werewolf Jones
Member
"I'll make you mourn your own death."
EDIT: Kinda weak how they couldn't even animate the full sweater pull properly looking back.
Professor Renegade
Banned
Thanks for the explanations guys. It's still a little confusing, but I think I understand it a little better now.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Part 8's slow release schedule means I pretty much wait a year or so and re-read it from beginning to end once a decent amount of new chapters have come out---it's about time I do so!
What's going on with it? I really never see anyone talk about it...is it just dragging along? Or do people just care about the anime more right now. Speaking of which, I'm really behind on the show---haven't watched since Oingo-Boingo.
What's going on with it? I really never see anyone talk about it...is it just dragging along? Or do people just care about the anime more right now. Speaking of which, I'm really behind on the show---haven't watched since Oingo-Boingo.
nckillthegrimace
Member
I like part 5, but the ending is so bad. King Crimson makes no sense, Polnareff comes back as a loser, and Giorno's new power is ridiculous. Further, Giorno can't come back for part 6 despite it making perfect sense and being hinted at because he's so obscenely powerful. After those lame-ass sons of Dio, I wanted some payoff to that otherwise irrelevant character detail.
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
When he told them to met at the coliseum I thought at the time it was going to intersect with Jojo 2 since that's where the Pillar Men were.
EmCeeGramr
Member
And the turtle doesn't even have a bathroom inside of it
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I think Polnareff said somehting about the Egypt trip in Part 3, which narrows it down to him or Jotaro, since Joseph is like 80 by Part 5 and probably senile
At least I remember a line that made it pretty obvious it was Polnareff
At least I remember a line that made it pretty obvious it was Polnareff
Werewolf Jones
Member
Eh not really, it's just like you've got a clear path for a full set of answers we've wanted but the series is making you wait for them plus Araki keeps adding more stuff so it's all piling up. Like the Rock people who might be the new Pillar Men. Last chapter was the first fight/running away without Josuke's inclusion.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Part 8 is moving at a glacial pace but has potential to get super interesting once some shit gets revealed
The end of Part 5 is where the series began to spiral into nonsense.
It's okay: Giorno can turn his teeth into jellyfishes.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
JoJo was always nonsense
Werewolf Jones
Member
Well the series is called Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.
Part 8 is going very slowly. Like the other poster said, we need to start getting some revelations right now because so far it just keeps adding to the mystery without explaining anything and it's basically almost at like the halfway point of what part 7 was in terms of number of chapters no?
Only thing about part 5 I liked was Bruno and some of the fights. Other than that, basically nothing makes sense. I was really interested in the "son of Dio" angle until that was basically dropped and they showed that Giorno had less charisma than cardboard.
We weren't ready for such greatness.
At least it has a TV though. But seriously, Araki never even bothers to "fix" Polnareff right? That's awful.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
Araki always seemed like he was making up most of the story for nearly every part of Jojo as he went along. I'm sure he had a few general goals and concepts mapped out ahead of time, but I really think he just throws ideas in as he comes up with them.
And that's probably why I like JJBA so much.
And that's probably why I like JJBA so much.
I was reading back through Stardust Crusaders and one thing stood out to me. Does the fact that Polnareff ends up back at the beginning of the staircase when he meets Dio mean that Dio stopped time simply to run down, pick Polnareff up, carry him back down to the beginning, and then run back to where he was?
Am I getting that right?
Am I getting that right?
EmCeeGramr
Member
Rather than regular PART RANKINGS CHAT (7 > 4 > 3* > 2 > 6 > 5 > 1, btw), let's talk about the endings.
-Vento Aureo's ending is a huge mess. The body switcheroo is confusing as hell with Diavolo sharing a body with someone, the interplay between King Crimson and GER is barely comprehensible, and here's a random long flashback about how everything was fated to happen. Back to the present, and everything just ends.
-Stone Ocean's ending is... I don't even know. It's really bold in a way that parallels Phantom Blood's "Jonathan dies anyway" shocker (even with the protagonist sacrificing their life at sea to save a child), and Made in Heaven is just over the top in a way that's perfect for a JoJo's series finale, but... it's way too powerful. Nobody can even touch Pucci at all. And the decision to have Emporio win by asphyxiating Pucci with Weather Report's Stand is oddly anticlimactic to me (though I'm sure it was unintentional, there was potential there for the whole "dying due to the circulation of your blood" to be a full circle callback to Ripple), and the universe just resetting in a seemingly arbitrary fashion with the same characters but different names was odd.
-It's hard to define Phantom Blood's ending because it's hard to decide whether to call the battle at the castle or the ship the final battle; the castle fight isn't that great (i hit u with a sword... and then i hit u again and it's on fire), while the ship is just Jonathan getting cut and then using his last breaths to fuck over Dio. It's original and memorable, at the very least.
-Battle Tendency's is easily the most hilarious with the amount of absurdity going on (fake Kars, Lisa Lisa guitar, squirrel hand, SEX = USELESS, a fucking volcano launching Kars into space), but it's also easily the most asspullish victory against an invincible opponent in JoJo's, and that's saying something.
-Diamond is Unbreakable is easily second best if we're including the whole Another One Bites the Dust time loop sequence. All of that going on, leading up to Josuke seeing Kira, is great. The fight after that is pretty good (the Killer Queen/Cat Grass combo, Kira's dad getting blasted), though I don't think it's particularly amazing; the lack of assistance from the other characters except for Okuyasu and the last minute Koichi/Jotaro finishing him off felt strange for a story that focused on community and friendship so much. Kira getting dragged away was incredibly satisfying, though, and the ending is really sweet.
-THE MAN, THE MYTH, THE LEGEND. Say that Jotaro getting the time stop and Joseph reviving seem cheap. Don't care. DIO is perfectly portrayed in a way that's very similar to the equally legendary and effective Frieza final battle a year before. A figure treated with absolute dread and reverence by everyone in the arc despite never doing anything themselves for the majority of the arc leading up to the finale, leading to the pants-shitting "oh fuck" feeling when they finally appear above the heroes. The sheer force and unstoppable brutality that just tears through the party without breaking a sweat. The weird ass elongated anime time that doesn't match real world time at all. The main character just barely being able to get their own surprise hits in and even being nearly killed, only to unlock their true power at the end. It's all archetypal stuff, but it's done so well. The sense of relief and sadness as the journey comes to an end and it's time to get back home.
-Steel Ball Run's is incredible. It's bittersweet, it encapsulates the growth of the characters perfectly, it's cruel and unfair, it's perfect. Gyro's death, Tusk Act IV, it's all fantastic. Alternate Diego with The World could have been a lame fanservice disaster coming off the amazing Valentine fight, but instead it really works with its perfect subversion of your expectations.
*Yes, I know blasphemy, and I'm very much blocking out most of the first half. But the Egypt half and the entirety of the Dio's mansion half are fantastic and work for me because of their simplicity. It's very re-readable, and the Dio fight never gets old.
-Vento Aureo's ending is a huge mess. The body switcheroo is confusing as hell with Diavolo sharing a body with someone, the interplay between King Crimson and GER is barely comprehensible, and here's a random long flashback about how everything was fated to happen. Back to the present, and everything just ends.
-Stone Ocean's ending is... I don't even know. It's really bold in a way that parallels Phantom Blood's "Jonathan dies anyway" shocker (even with the protagonist sacrificing their life at sea to save a child), and Made in Heaven is just over the top in a way that's perfect for a JoJo's series finale, but... it's way too powerful. Nobody can even touch Pucci at all. And the decision to have Emporio win by asphyxiating Pucci with Weather Report's Stand is oddly anticlimactic to me (though I'm sure it was unintentional, there was potential there for the whole "dying due to the circulation of your blood" to be a full circle callback to Ripple), and the universe just resetting in a seemingly arbitrary fashion with the same characters but different names was odd.
-It's hard to define Phantom Blood's ending because it's hard to decide whether to call the battle at the castle or the ship the final battle; the castle fight isn't that great (i hit u with a sword... and then i hit u again and it's on fire), while the ship is just Jonathan getting cut and then using his last breaths to fuck over Dio. It's original and memorable, at the very least.
-Battle Tendency's is easily the most hilarious with the amount of absurdity going on (fake Kars, Lisa Lisa guitar, squirrel hand, SEX = USELESS, a fucking volcano launching Kars into space), but it's also easily the most asspullish victory against an invincible opponent in JoJo's, and that's saying something.
-Diamond is Unbreakable is easily second best if we're including the whole Another One Bites the Dust time loop sequence. All of that going on, leading up to Josuke seeing Kira, is great. The fight after that is pretty good (the Killer Queen/Cat Grass combo, Kira's dad getting blasted), though I don't think it's particularly amazing; the lack of assistance from the other characters except for Okuyasu and the last minute Koichi/Jotaro finishing him off felt strange for a story that focused on community and friendship so much. Kira getting dragged away was incredibly satisfying, though, and the ending is really sweet.
-THE MAN, THE MYTH, THE LEGEND. Say that Jotaro getting the time stop and Joseph reviving seem cheap. Don't care. DIO is perfectly portrayed in a way that's very similar to the equally legendary and effective Frieza final battle a year before. A figure treated with absolute dread and reverence by everyone in the arc despite never doing anything themselves for the majority of the arc leading up to the finale, leading to the pants-shitting "oh fuck" feeling when they finally appear above the heroes. The sheer force and unstoppable brutality that just tears through the party without breaking a sweat. The weird ass elongated anime time that doesn't match real world time at all. The main character just barely being able to get their own surprise hits in and even being nearly killed, only to unlock their true power at the end. It's all archetypal stuff, but it's done so well. The sense of relief and sadness as the journey comes to an end and it's time to get back home.
-Steel Ball Run's is incredible. It's bittersweet, it encapsulates the growth of the characters perfectly, it's cruel and unfair, it's perfect. Gyro's death, Tusk Act IV, it's all fantastic. Alternate Diego with The World could have been a lame fanservice disaster coming off the amazing Valentine fight, but instead it really works with its perfect subversion of your expectations.
*Yes, I know blasphemy, and I'm very much blocking out most of the first half. But the Egypt half and the entirety of the Dio's mansion half are fantastic and work for me because of their simplicity. It's very re-readable, and the Dio fight never gets old.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Prime example of Araki not planning ahead.
At that point Dio was probably meant to just have some weird reality-warp powers, which became more specifically freezing time.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Part 3 and Part 7 have the best endings.
But I respect part 6 being the ultimate fuck you ending, instead of just continuing into the next story in the series Araki actually, literally RESETS the universe.
But I respect part 6 being the ultimate fuck you ending, instead of just continuing into the next story in the series Araki actually, literally RESETS the universe.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Nah, it got far worse at that point.
Well, the universe is reset one arc later; I doubt de-turtling Polnareff was a high priority for him.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Prime example of Araki not planning ahead.
At that point Dio was probably meant to just have some weird reality-warp powers, which became more specifically freezing time.
(there's another one with Dio crawling between Hol Horse's legs to get behind him and a more hilarious version of the staircase with Dio backflipping around)
Also when the Senator jumped out of the car, then got back in from the other side.
I like the implication DIO liked fucking with people.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
7 probably has one of the better endings because it was the first to leave Shonen Jump...
I imagine SJ readers don't really care for denouement chapters and such, and just want to hurry up to the action. The endings are short right to the point so he can start the next Arc for the kids so they don't get bored.
I imagine SJ readers don't really care for denouement chapters and such, and just want to hurry up to the action. The endings are short right to the point so he can start the next Arc for the kids so they don't get bored.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
The argument in the anime thread over Jotaro getting the time stop is going to take sooooooo long
Oh god, this gif gets me every time. The way DIO back flips back up the stairs is so over the top and obnoxious, but I love it.
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
I assume some people will point out all the clock/clock gear references in the opening and ending. But yeah that conversation will be a lot of back and forth.
Werewolf Jones
Member
When Dio used the arrow on himself he activated the Joestar bloodlines powers himself and they all share the same powers with him, like how he can see when Joseph was watching him and how Jotaro can use time stop, it's Jotaro's power not Dio's.
That's the theory, anyway.
SBR invalidates this, since there's no Jotaro present and Dio has time-stop anyway. They're just the same type of Stand. They both punch really hard and can stop-time.
I'm sure The World could use Star Finger if Dio knew it was a thing.
Dio could only stop time because Enya posed the possibility to him, and then Jotaro just gets to thinking, and bam, time stop. They're just parallels of each other, much like Jonathan and Dio were parallels of each other.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
It was an interesting theory, but alternate Diego using The World seemed to imply to me that freezing time was always Dio's ability.
As for the other version of Hermit Purple that Dio could use, it was probably just Jonathan's Stand. I think that's brought up in Over Heaven.
As someone who already knows the ending to SC (though I've heard people say the OVA change a lot of things from the manga?) but isn't aware of a lot of the details that got to that point, I was always curious as to how/why Jotaro could time stop but always assumed it was something likely foreshadowed earlier. The fact that Star Platinum had an increasingly easier time moving in frozen time I'm sure is also supposed to be a tip off.
Early in the anime (and I assume manga), Dio is shown using some sort variation of Hermit Purple (I assume he does the same to track the Joestars and let his minions find them but this is never explicitly shown - that would have been appreciated). My thinking goes that since Joestars only have Stands because of Dio, then all their Stands are related and can theoretically tap into similar powers. Basically that Hermit Purple and Star Platinum (and I guess whatever Holly's Stand is) are "parts" of The World. I think that seems like a logical train of thought. From the fact that people in here are insistent that anime-only viewers will be pissed off by the reveal means that I can assume Araki did a not very good job of foreshadowing this and what could have been a logical power evolution will come off as an asspull?
It kind of frustrates me because as much I'm legitimately enjoying all of this, there is always this feeling that parts of the series (I'm still mostly in the dark about Parts 4-8 but from the impressions I've got, Part 7 is the only one that is narratively "tight") are way more sloppy than they need to be for no good reason.
It's only really Parts 3 and 5 that suffer from this, and part 3 only suffers in it from an "it kind of comes out of nowhere."
Some will consider Jotaro grabbing random shit in the D'arby the Gambler fight to be a foreshadowing of time-stop, as it's never explicitly shown when he grabs the stuff, but that also contradicts events in the Jotaro VS Dio fight.
Tizoc
Member
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
That's kind of the theory. Mainly that DIO's stand was going to be every Joestars stand. It's weird, later in Part 6 in a flashback he's shown to be able to heal like Crazy Diamond, and him repairing Vanilla Ice's decapitation is similar to Gold Experience...
I just want more of Ghost Detective Kira but it reads like he quit that job.
The fight just shows Jotaro gradually strengthening his time-stop abilities, yet if he had it during the D'arby fight it'd be information that'd be kind of privy to the rest of the group. He was present when they open the coffin, if it was foreshadowing he'd have said "Dio stopped time and put him in the coffin"
Because that's not his Stand, it wasn't awakened by the Devil's Palm, the corpse part left him with the ability to use the dino powers.
Didn't he just turn Vanilla Ice? In the OVA its very clear he turns Vanilla Ice into a Vampire so I assumed the same happened in the recent anime episode (and they just haven't revealed the fangs yet and shit). Plus Vanilla Ice uses a vampiric drain move in the All Star Battle game too no?
Yeah, he turned Vanilla Ice into a vampire. That fact hasn't changed.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Oh. Yes you are right, I forgot that.
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