I dunno, seemed pretty easy to find these, unless you were talking about gifs or videos or something...
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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure |OT| Get back, Stand up
- Thread starter SolarKnight
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BreezyLimbo
Banned
King Crimson makes perfect sense. See its all abo
And thats why he makes sense.
And thats why he makes sense.
JadedWriter
Member
That Futurama episode was always what i thought of with King Crimsons powers even before all the meme images. It works out for me so i don't need to confuse myself by reading a bunch of fan theories.
this is to blame on shitty translation unfortunately. they made it a lot harder to understand than it needed to be.
might as well take this chance to type up a King Crimson explanation, since I was too sleepy last time
King Crimson "erases time", up to 10 seconds. Diavolo can see what happens during the erased time (Epitaph) and reposition himself during it. During erased time, everybody else except Diavolo are bound to follow the actions that began before time was erased.
When Narancia gets punched by King Crimson, and KC erases time immediately after, he gets spiked because he continues on the path determined by what happened before time was erased, i.e., getting punched. He's impaled because that's the consequence of being punched.
The actions taken by people during erased time aren't based on intentions or movement -- they're based on fate. Diavolo is the sole exception; King Crimson unbinds him from time, and thus unbinds him from fate.
The consequences of actions that would've begun during erased time never happen, because they would alter the path of fate bound by King Crimson.
So when the bullets are about to hit Diavolo, they pass through him because it would alter King Crimson's locked fate during erased time. The bullets' path can't be changed during erased time. Narancia gets impaled because he was punched before time got erased, the bullets pass through Diavolo because it would've happened during erased time, and they hit Risotto Nero because it happened after erased time.
Diavolo has some exceptions to this, being unbound from King Crimson's fate, but he can't directly change others's actions during erased time. (Like when he throws blood in front of people rather than directly punching them.)
This is how the blood drip works. The cause of the action, being cut, happens before time is erased, so blood will drip because the force of gravity would still pull it down. If you started cutting your hand during the erased time, you won't bleed, it didn't happen.
(As a side note, this would mean Aerosmith's bullets would pass through (say) Giorno or even walls during erased time. Probably. It never actually happens in the manga.)
The way King Crimson behaves in the manga is very consistent. But the way Araki explains it isn't; I think Araki knew that King Crimson was a confusing power, and tried to help explain it, but just ended up making it more confusing.
Like take Buccellati seeing his future self, that doesn't have anything to do with King Crimson or Epitaph. If you think of time like this:
A->B->C
and King Crimson erases B:
A->_->C
A and C would "crash together" to fill the gap, right? So Buccelati seeing his future self was Araki's way of trying to explain how King Crimson worked through a visual metaphor, but he totally failed to get it across. So, yeah.
(This was also meant to tie together with Made in Heaven; King Crimson establishes that time and fate are connected, and Made in Heaven that time and gravity are connected. That's where the whole "gravity = fate" shit comes from.)
tl;dr: CONFUSION WILL BE YOUR EPITAPH
King Crimson "erases time", up to 10 seconds. Diavolo can see what happens during the erased time (Epitaph) and reposition himself during it. During erased time, everybody else except Diavolo are bound to follow the actions that began before time was erased.
When Narancia gets punched by King Crimson, and KC erases time immediately after, he gets spiked because he continues on the path determined by what happened before time was erased, i.e., getting punched. He's impaled because that's the consequence of being punched.
The actions taken by people during erased time aren't based on intentions or movement -- they're based on fate. Diavolo is the sole exception; King Crimson unbinds him from time, and thus unbinds him from fate.
The consequences of actions that would've begun during erased time never happen, because they would alter the path of fate bound by King Crimson.
So when the bullets are about to hit Diavolo, they pass through him because it would alter King Crimson's locked fate during erased time. The bullets' path can't be changed during erased time. Narancia gets impaled because he was punched before time got erased, the bullets pass through Diavolo because it would've happened during erased time, and they hit Risotto Nero because it happened after erased time.
Diavolo has some exceptions to this, being unbound from King Crimson's fate, but he can't directly change others's actions during erased time. (Like when he throws blood in front of people rather than directly punching them.)
This is how the blood drip works. The cause of the action, being cut, happens before time is erased, so blood will drip because the force of gravity would still pull it down. If you started cutting your hand during the erased time, you won't bleed, it didn't happen.
(As a side note, this would mean Aerosmith's bullets would pass through (say) Giorno or even walls during erased time. Probably. It never actually happens in the manga.)
The way King Crimson behaves in the manga is very consistent. But the way Araki explains it isn't; I think Araki knew that King Crimson was a confusing power, and tried to help explain it, but just ended up making it more confusing.
Like take Buccellati seeing his future self, that doesn't have anything to do with King Crimson or Epitaph. If you think of time like this:
A->B->C
and King Crimson erases B:
A->_->C
A and C would "crash together" to fill the gap, right? So Buccelati seeing his future self was Araki's way of trying to explain how King Crimson worked through a visual metaphor, but he totally failed to get it across. So, yeah.
(This was also meant to tie together with Made in Heaven; King Crimson establishes that time and fate are connected, and Made in Heaven that time and gravity are connected. That's where the whole "gravity = fate" shit comes from.)
tl;dr: CONFUSION WILL BE YOUR EPITAPH
JadedWriter
Member
So if King Crimson time travelled he could erase somebodies birth by erasing...that very specific moment out of history?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well
If he erased the moment where the person ejaculated
Yeh
But he'd have to time it right. If the victim was already in the process of ejaculating when KC stopped time, then it would still happen.
JadedWriter
Member
God Jojo what ifs are funny.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Think of a Film reel
In this reel, the man starts at a sign that says A
He goes to sign B
And finally walks to sign C. Thats the whole reel.
King Crimsons ability basically allows him to cut out a piece of the film reel.
So think back to the Film Reel. King Crimson has gotten his hands on it, that rascal. So you watch the film reel again.
The man starts at a sign that says A. Suddenly it cuts to him walking to a sign that says C. King Crimson cut out the middle! That pesky pest.
Thats basically King Crimsons power.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Thats why I used a film reel as my example, its set in stone.
JadedWriter
Member
Imagine if King Crimson erased the part of history where George Lucas thought of writing the prequels.
Who knows, it'd normally work like any other action during erased time. Dio can't stop time during erased time, but he can stop it before or after.
But I'm betting Dio can ignore or at least see during erased time, and Diavolo the same with stopped time. So it'd either be an arbitrary precedence, or depends on who started the ability first.
But I'm betting Dio can ignore or at least see during erased time, and Diavolo the same with stopped time. So it'd either be an arbitrary precedence, or depends on who started the ability first.
Shmuppers
Member
lol this helped a lot. Thanks
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Interesting article on Araki's writing style, spoilers for anyone in here who cares about that sort of thing.
This is what confuses me but it might be because I don't remember too much of the battle. Bullets are fired at Diavolo but they phase through him because he used King Crimson to erase time?
A: Bullets are fired.
B: Diavolo is shot.
C: Diavolo hits the ground.
If he erases be and manipulates it like he can, does that mean it becomes something like this:
A: Bullets are fired.
B: Diavolo erases B and is therefore not shot.
C: Diavolo is now in front of you ready to fuck your shit up?
JadedWriter
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yes since KC is Diavolos stand, Diavolo is allowed to move where he wants during this erased time. Epitaph is the 2nd key component to KC, and that allows him to see into this erased time, thus allowing him knowledge of whether he would be shot or not, thus allowing him to avoid the circumstance where he would be hit.
Yeah. Specifically, it went like this:
1. Aerosmith fires the bullets.
2. King Crimson erases time just as the bullets are about to hit Diavolo.
3. The bullets are locked into their path and ignore Diavolo, even if the path passes through his head.
4. King Crimson stops erasing time, and they continue as normal bullets.
1. Aerosmith fires the bullets.
2. King Crimson erases time just as the bullets are about to hit Diavolo.
3. The bullets are locked into their path and ignore Diavolo, even if the path passes through his head.
4. King Crimson stops erasing time, and they continue as normal bullets.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
If we take D4C as moving on from the time theme part 3-6 had and onto a space/time theme with D4C's dimension hopping then something like Chaos Theory
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I still think the final ability of Soft & Wet will be the removal of concepts, which would be GER tier broken.
"I've removed the concept of 『time』 from you. You no longer have any effect on this Universe, and might as well not exist."
"I've removed the concept of 『time』 from you. You no longer have any effect on this Universe, and might as well not exist."
This was a fantastic piece. Really interesting. I would legitimately love to sit down one-on-one with Araki and just ask him about his creative process.
No, it's not.
But it does, actually. The blood droplets are just like the bullets. So based on your explanation above, you'd expect the blood to pass through Polnareff's leg (and the ground??). And it obviously doesn't. ;þ
(it's actually even trickier than that, as the blood should fall through Polnareff's veins before even reaching the wound... hell, everything should pass/fall through everything!)
Nah, they're both inconsistent, and you're just trying really hard to have it make some kind of sense by coming up with extra rules/explanations and ignoring existing ones.
I mean, don't get me wrong: it's a valiant effort. And trying to fix things like that can be interesting/amusing (I know I spent way too much time thinking of ways to explain the timelines of Dragon Ball's Cell arc, for instance). But it really is about trying to fix something that doesn't work in the first place.
You're once again ignoring the fact that Diavolo didn't survive that attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Lol I was waiting for Erigu to show up.
JadedWriter
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It's like talking to a wall sometimes.
We've been through this Erigu, King Crimson is Diavolos stand, not Polnareffs. In what world is KC doing things for Polnareff.
Well, it's not my fault you keep ignoring my arguments, man! "Like talking to a wall" indeed.
So at the moment (since, as I explained earlier, your explanations keep changing and never make much sense anyway), you're going with "Diavolo gets to choose what doesn't interact with anything during the timeskip"? Okay. The manga never says anything about that and actually contradicts that interpretation by stating that everything disappears, but okay. Let's say.
By keeping Polnareff's blood from interacting with his leg, Diavolo wouldn't be "doing something for Polnareff", you know? That would actually prevent Polnareff from realizing time skipped. That would help Diavolo, not Polnareff.
thelooseteeth
Member
This is why we have the "because Araki" meme.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
And as explained earlier, Diavolo can move within this time. Not Polnareff.
Not that hard to understand. The cut was already there, the blood was in the process of dropping.
"Talking to a wall" indeed.
1)Diavolo can see where the bullets are going and avoid them
2)The blood will still hit Polnareff, because King Crimson cannot interact with Polnareff
3)Diavolo can interact with himself and only himself.
Simple as that. That is why the blood hit Polnareff, that is why Diavolo didn't stop the blood from hitting polnareff. That is also why the bullets missed Diavolo. It's been spelled out to you in so many different ways, at a certain point it stops being our responsibility to spell it out to you like a child.
JadedWriter
Member
How many years have people been arguing about King Crimson for?
I have read so many bullshit time travel/loop/etc stories that I typically internalize a "time travel is nonsense" mentality. The stand makes sense intuitively to me, so any attempts to explain it mechanically just tend to grate and occlude my understanding. As someone has mentioned before Araki's stuff works in a moment-to-moment fashion. This will be anathema to some, but Doctor Who at its best works the same way.
(Kinda! Weirdly enough, the more plot-oriented Moffat episodes have a less mechanical approach to time travel, while the more picaresque Davies years had a more mechanical style.)
(Kinda! Weirdly enough, the more plot-oriented Moffat episodes have a less mechanical approach to time travel, while the more picaresque Davies years had a more mechanical style.)
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