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[Erigu]

And as explained earlier, Diavolo can move within this time.

Aw, for fuck's sake, man. Could you quit dodging the issue by going in circles and acknowledge my replies, once in a while?

You're once again ignoring the fact that Diavolo didn't survive that attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Really. He didn't. He explained how he survived the attack, and that's just not it.

... Also, as I pointed out earlier:

later on, you suddenly started talking about Diavolo being able to move during the time skip (which actually seems pretty damn superfluous based on your previous explanation: why would he need to move?)

Think about it. If King Crimson gets to choose what doesn't interact with anything during the timeskip (which is what you were arguing there), he shouldn't even need to move to avoid bullets: he can just make it so they don't interact with him, or he doesn't interact with them.

Like I said above, you keep dodging the issue by going in circles. You explain what happened in one way, I point out that it doesn't work -> unfazed, you somehow switch to another, completely different explanation that negates the previous one, I point out that it's not it either -> not a problem, you just switch back and here we go again! Sorry, but you're simply not making sense.

Case in point, the rest of your post:

1)Diavolo can see where the bullets are going and avoid them

See above and a bunch of other posts: Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

2)The blood will still hit Polnareff, because King Crimson cannot interact with Polnareff

You went from "he won't" ("he didn't erase the paw prints or blood drops because King Crimson don't give a fuck about paw prints or blood drops", "in what world is KC doing things for Polnareff") to "he can't". See above about your ever-changing explanation(s).

3)Diavolo can interact with himself and only himself.

I think "interacting with oneself" is too high a concept for me. ;þ

 

[JayEH]

Interesting article on Araki's writing style, spoilers for anyone in here who cares about that sort of thing.

Great piece. Araki prioritizing fun over logic is the right move.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

See its like I explain it then he goes "but I explained it" without knowing why his explanation is wrong

Wheres King Crimson when you need him. Need to go back in time and test erasing the moment of conception.

 

[JayEH]

Think about it. If King Crimson gets to choose what doesn't interact with anything during the timeskip (which is what you were arguing there), he shouldn't even need to move to avoid bullets: he can just make it so the don't interact with him, or he doesn't interact with them.

He can't interact with objects though. The path of the bullets is set in stone. He can only move around during erased time to avoid bad things happening to him.

 

[Erigu]

See its like I explain it then he goes "but I explained it" without knowing why his explanation is wrong

Holy crap, man...

He can't interact with objects though. The path of the bullets is set in stone.

What I meant was that King Crimson allowed Diavolo to let the bullets pass right through him (i.e. made it so they didn't interact with him).
If he can do that, he doesn't even need to move out of the way of the bullets. And he didn't, in fact.
Why does BreezyLimbo go "Diavolo can move during the time skip" while attempting to explain how he survived Aerosmith's attack, then? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Holy crap, man...



What I meant was that King Crimson allowed Diavolo to let the bullets pass right through him (i.e. made it so they didn't interact with him).
If he can do that, he doesn't even need to move out of the way of the bullets. And he didn't, in fact.
Why does BreezyLimbo go "Diavolo can move during the time skip" while attempting to explain how he survived Aerosmith's attack, then? Your guess is as good as mine.

Because that part was erased

Oh my god its that simple. To the people around him it looks like he stood still. To diavolo though, the moment the bullets were going to hit them was erased. Because Diavolo was able to adjust to it. And only Diavolo.

Its like when in part 3 Polnareff keeps going back to the bottom of the stairs, eringu would probably be like "but how did dio do it! Dio can only stop time! How did polnareff keep ending up at the bottom of the stairs!?!?!?"

 

[JayEH]

I'm going to need to re read that part to get better familiarized lol. But from my current understanding of the power is that he has to physically move away from the bullets.

 

[Erigu]

Because that part was erased
Oh my god its that simple.

Yes, that's a simple sentence, and I bet constantly ignoring your interlocutor's arguments is really simple as well.

Just wasting my time at this point, I guess, but bullet (har har) points:
* One would expect the bullets and the blood droplets to be affected by the time skip in the same manner. They're not.
* You might want to explain that away by arguing that Diavolo is an exception, which is why bullets just passed through him without actually affecting him, whereas that cat left paw prints and Polnareff's blood hit his leg, but Diavolo's own explanations as to how he survived Aerosmith's attack completely fail to say anything about exceptions (quite on the contrary, in fact: he plainly states that everything was affected by King Crimson's power during the time skip).

Its like when in part 3 Polnareff keeps going back to the bottom of the stairs, eringu would probably be like "but how did dio do it! Dio can only stop time! How did polnareff keep ending up at the bottom of the stairs!?!?!?"

"because eringu is a fucking idiot amirite guyz lolol"
Please do better than that?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Yes, that's a simple sentence, and I bet constantly ignoring your interlocutor's arguments is really simple as well.

Just wasting my time at this point, I guess, but bullet (har har) points:
* One would expect the bullets and the blood droplets to be affected by the time skip in the same manner. They're not.
* You might want to explain that away by arguing that Diavolo is an exception, which is why bullets just passed through him without actually affecting him, whereas that cat left paw prints and Polnareff's blood hit his leg, but Diavolo's own explanations as to how he survived Aerosmith's attack completely fail to say anything about exceptions (quite on the contrary, in fact: he plainly states that everything was affected by King Crimson's power during the time skip).


"because eringu is a fucking idiot amirite guyz lolol"
Please do better than that?

*The bullets kept travelling the distance they were going to travel. They didn't go backwards, they didn't go sideways, they simply 'passed' diavolo.
*this is because Diavolo is an exception. Because in this time erase, only Diavolo can change his actions and anything that would affect him can be moved around(As in, Diavolo can move around actions). This is why the pawprints and blood drops continued as they were, because they're not Diavolo.
*Therefore diavolo has control over himself during this time skip. What appears to be the bullets 'skipping' past Diavolo was simply because he was able to avoid that, because he gets to see their trajectory.

Simple as that. It's that simple. Only Diavolo is affected during King Crimsons time skip. Only diavolo. However, objects and people that are in motion will continue across their trajectory because they are not affected, and end up in the 'end' part of their trajectory.

 

[Erigu]

Diavolo is an exception. Because in this time erase, only Diavolo can change his actions and anything that would affect him can be moved around(As in, Diavolo can move around actions).
[...]
What appears to be the bullets 'skipping' past Diavolo was simply because he was able to avoid that, because he gets to see their trajectory.

Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.
Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.
Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

It's right there in the manga: Diavolo explains how he survived. And it wasn't by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Are you going to acknowledge that, like, ever? Just curious!


Even ignoring the above for the sake of the argument, I would question why you seem to believe that 1) Diavolo needed a Stand to know what trajectory the bullets were taking ("whoa, they're headed towards me in a straight line?! who would have thought!"), and 2) knowing said trajectory was all he needed to get out of the way (does King Crimson also slow time down and make Risotto loosen his grip?).
It's almost as if Diavolo used King Crimson for something else entirely. Like, say, let the bullets pass through him. You know, just as he explains he did.


Also:

Only Diavolo is affected during King Crimsons time skip. Only diavolo.

Hey, remember how I pointed out that Diavolo plainly stated that everything was affected by King Crimson's power during the time skip? Right there in the post you were replying to? Yeah, let's not acknowledge that either, I guess...

 

[cntr]

King Crimson deems "a cat walks over Giorno's pants" and "blood drips on pants" as one event, and deems "bullets fly through air" and "bullets hit something" as separate events, and prevents the latter from happening.

That's literally it. It doesn't make any logical sense if you think about it, but it makes "intuitive" sense, since by Araki's standards, "a cat walks" and "paw prints get on Giorno's pants" are not as intuitively distinct of events as "bullets moving" and "bullets hitting people" are.

King Crimson works on Araki's intuition, not rational logic, and it's consistent by those standards. Of course it'll make no sense if you try to apply rational logic to it, nothing in Jojo works that way. I don't see why you're treating King Crimson differently.

And no, BreezyLimbo, Diavolo didn't get out of the way of the bullets. The bullets passed through him.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Ok let's talk about how in the Bruno and Diavolo fight Giorno was able to turn his brooch into Coco Jumbo.

Not just a turtle, but Coco Jumbo, complete with Mr President stand.

 

[cntr]

that's a good example of real Araki bullshit

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Diavolo didn't survive Aerosmith's attack by getting out of the way of the bullets.

It's right there in the manga: Diavolo explains how he survived. And it wasn't by getting out of the way of the bullets.

Are you going to acknowledge that, like, ever? Just curious!

Yes, he erased the time they would've hit him. How did he do this? Because he can control his actions during the time erase sequence, see which path the bullets wouldn't hit him, and chose that one.

I mean...if you want to keep arguing semantics, you can, but it's been explained to you over and over. It's later clarified that Diavolo can move during this time-when it's demonstrated in the fight with aerosmith, it's a simple 'The last .5 seconds were erased'.

This is why I brought up Polnareff and the stairs. Because obviously he's not teleporting to the bottom of the stairs-he's being moved there.

PS: Even ignoring the above for the sake of the argument, I would question why you seem to believe that 1) Diavolo needed a Stand to know what trajectory the bullets were taking ("whoa, they're headed towards me in a straight line?! who would have thought!"), and 2) knowing said trajectory was all he needed to get out of the way (does King Crimson also slow time down and make Risotto loosen his grip?).
It's almost as if Diavolo used King Crimson for something else entirely. Like, say, let the bullets pass through him. You know, just as he explains he did.

During King Crimsons time erasure, he sees all the trajectories of objects and the actions of people. And during that time, Diavolo can move freely. Getting the grip on him loosened is as simple as backing away during the time erasure. Just because you see the effect of the time erasure, doesn't mean that this time skip follows its own rules compared to later ones.

Diavolo has complete control of his body during Time Erasure. Whether it's to adjust his body, or to have bullets pass him without effecting him, it's complete control over his own body.

 

[cntr]

you know what Giorno should've done? turn cars into frogs, throw them at people, and revert them mid-air

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Guys, please, just apply this and move on

 

[Debirudog]

you know what Giorno should've done? turn cars into frogs, throw them at people, and revert them mid-air

And shout WRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYY.

 

[cntr]

Gold Experience can create life and nature and shit, right

and Kars is made of nature?

So Giorno can summon an army of one hundred Kars. Well, maybe just 36.

 

[Erigu]

King Crimson works on Araki's intuition, not rational logic, and it's consistent by those standards. Of course it'll make no sense if you try to apply rational logic to it, nothing in Jojo works that way. I don't see why you're treating King Crimson differently.

Yes, Araki often plays fast and loose with his Stands' powers (... and not just that either, really), but there are times where I find it a lot more egregious than others.
Here, this is the climax of a fight where a character is willing to sacrifice his own life just to take the Big Bad out. So, kind of a big deal. And the Big Bad survives because Araki had his ability suddenly work differently than it did before or would do later on. I believe the technical term is "asspull".
Again, sure, it wouldn't the first asspull in the series (nor the last), but I think it's a pretty bad one, and the context makes it worse.

I guess I'm also particularly annoyed because I consider that to be the point where the series jumped the shark: asspulls like that (or inscrutable abilities that "just work" in general) become more and more frequent from there on, and I simply can't get invested in the fights anymore. It's just "and then, bullshit happens because", now. Hardly anything feels earned.

if you want to keep arguing semantics

I'm not "arguing semantics". I'm punching holes in your vague and ever-changing explanations.
As for the rest of your post, it's once again a mess of "maybe I'm saying he moved out of the way, maybe I'm saying the bullets passed through him, who knows! it's all so simple, how come you don't understand?". Time to stop.

 

[Breads]

Started rereading SBR because the color version got me super interested and holy shit, not only does it look amazing but the colours punctuate just how much bullshit the damage the MCs take is. The body horror in general is off the charts at times. Boom Boom facial reconstruction dad is Junji Ito levels of horrific.

 

[cntr]

Where I'm disagreeing is "it works differently". Yeah, it works on total bullshit Araki logic, no dispute about that, but it works the same as before and after.

And fair enough.

 

[Semblance]

Jesus, this thread goes to shit whenever KC is brought up lately.

 

[cntr]

Started rereading SBR because the color version got me super interested and holy shit, not only does it look amazing but the colours punctuate just how much bullshit the damage the MCs take is. The body horror in general is off the charts at times. Boom Boom facial reconstruction dad is Junji Ito levels of horrific.

I'd recommend reading the black and white version. The coloring job on SBR is kind of shit compared to the previous parts, and Araki's art is so good.

Jesus, this thread goes to shit whenever KC is brought up lately.

Yeah, that conversation was not cool.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Let's liven the mood with this fanart of Reimi-kill era Kira

 

[cntr]

not even once.

Let's liven the mood with this fanart of Reimi-kill era Kira

I'm indecisive on whether teenage Kira looking like a punk is totally appropriate or not

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm not "arguing semantics". I'm punching holes in your vague and ever-changing explanations.
As for the rest of your post, it's once again a mess of "maybe I'm saying he moved out of the way, maybe I'm saying the bullets passed through him, who knows! it's all so simple, how come you don't understand?". Time to stop.

No I'm saying he had control over his actions during that moment

Simple as that. Because that's literally one of the important parts of Time Skip.

If you can't understand that well...

 

[Kthulhu]

HOW DOES KING CRIMSON WORK?!

 

[Breads]

I'd recommend reading the black and white version. The coloring job on SBR is kind of shit compared to the previous parts, and Araki's art is so good.

I've already read once to completion a few years ago and yeah at parts it's some of the tightest line work I've seen in manga (which is also what made Jojolion so jarring). The colors don't look bad at all and imo it's adding quite a bit to it. At least so far it has been - I just made it to the initial Tusk reveal. If anything my concern is the quality of the translation, since that is an ever present issue with Jojo manga translations.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

HOW DOES KING CRIMSON WORK?!

Vento Aureo's ending in a nutshell

 

[JayEH]

So re reading part 5 I just remembered that from this part onward that Araki heavily starts to use flashbacks for character back stories. I wonder how the anime(s) will handle it.

 

[cntr]

Either just insert them as half of the episode or do something more stylish.

You know, if you think about it, Kira doesn't want to stand out so he has blond hair, wears purple suits, and ties with cat skulls on them.

 

[JadedWriter]

HOW DOES KING CRIMSON WORK?!

Did Erigu make this vid lol.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You know who I want to know how it works

Made In Heaven

 

[cntr]

let's just not talk about how stands work since people have no chill

 

[JayEH]

I said this a while back but towards the end of Stone Ocean I really just shut off my brain and kept reading. Actually I do this for every part ending really but Stone Ocean was the hardest I ever had to do it lol.

 

[Kthulhu]

Vento Aureo's ending in a nutshell

Congratulations, you just killed me dead

 

[Fulminator]

During King Crimsons time erasure, he sees all the trajectories of objects and the actions of people. And during that time, Diavolo can move freely. Getting the grip on him loosened is as simple as backing away during the time erasure. Just because you see the effect of the time erasure, doesn't mean that this time skip follows its own rules compared to later ones.

Diavolo has complete control of his body during Time Erasure. Whether it's to adjust his body, or to have bullets pass him without effecting him, it's complete control over his own body.

This is how i always interpret king crimson's ability. Everything will play out the way it would normally except Diavolo can change his actions during the time that was erased. Wasn't there some sort of analogy made where they said the point where King Crimson starts his ability and end it get pulled together, erasing the time in between? That's what I think of when I think of the time erasure. (It's really more of time convergence between two points if you think about it,)


What would be the point of Epitaph otherwise?

 

[JayEH]

Vento Aureo's ending in a nutshell

hahaha. i wonder how many shonen you can apply this to though.

 

[Fulminator]

Vento Aureo's ending in a nutshell

accurate

 

[Erigu]

Did Erigu make this vid lol.

Hey, I don't wonder how it works: I've long realized it simply doesn't!

 

[Sibersk Esto]

The rest of the Clash and Talking Heads fight got translated and man...

that was a good fight.

 

[JayEH]

This was in the related videos of the king crimson video.

King Crimson explained using a waffle.

edit: yeah that's not a good explanation but whatever it has a waffle in it.

 

[Fulminator]

This was in the related videos of the king crimson video.

King Crimson explained using a waffle.

edit: yeah that's not a good explanation but whatever it has a waffle in it.

i feel like im the only one this makes sense to lol

 

[Kthulhu]

This guy made a Musical Lietmotif of the Highway star fight.

He also did one for Part 5.

And one for Sheer Heart Attack.

 

[cntr]

oh god I just remembered, SHA finishes tomorrow

Can't fucking wait for what people are going to say to...everything that happens, but especially the resolution.

 

[JadedWriter]

Vento Aureo's ending in a nutshell

Maybe this will make sense after I read part 5?

 

[Kthulhu]

oh god I just remembered, SHA finishes tomorrow

Can't fucking wait for what people are going to say to...everything that happens, but especially the resolution.

Day after tomorrow. The hype is real bro.

Maybe this will make sense after I read part 5?

Yep. It's a fucking riot.

 

[cntr]

about 35 hours

Timezones are dumb.

 

[Fulminator]

oh god I just remembered, SHA finishes tomorrow

Can't fucking wait for what people are going to say to...everything that happens, but especially the resolution.

come to think of it, how does Kira even know about Cinderella?

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

come to think of it, how does Kira even know about Cinderella?

In the manga, Kira kept tabs on everyone after his encounter with Shigechi. This extended to Yukako and Koichi, and since Cinderella takes place between Quiet Life and Sheer Heart Attack...

In the anime, he walked past the shop and probably made a mental note of it.