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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure |OT| Get back, Stand up
- Thread starter SolarKnight
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This is a prime chance for me to once again bait Joseph fans into believing their favourite Jojo is of very little worth... But I'm gonna sit out on this one.
Trying to rationalize your shit taste with "baiting" is really cute.
SolarKnight
Member
Alessi + shooting Dio is exactly 6 chapters so it makes perfect sense with the current 3 chapters = 1 episode pacing, yeah.
Going by chapter count tho, D'arby would need 2 episodes for himself. It'd make sense if Hol and Boingo last 1 1/2 episodes with the second half of said episode being the beginning of Petshop since that battle fits perfectly into 1 1/2 episodes too.
Whatever the case will be tho, they're really gonna need to trim/hurry the fuck up with D'arby the gamer's pacing :|
Just to confirm before I hang out in here too long: are JoJolion spoilers still required to be marked in here? I've been importing to read, and since that means I need to wait for the tankoban releases (and I may not always order those right away), I'm definitely at risk of getting spoiled if people are freely posting about the latest chapters. But yeah, finished catching up like last weekend. Hope people don't mind me more or less dumping the stuff from my LTTP thread, since that's most of what I still want to discuss. So here goes:
Some random thoughts/questions/comments. The big one first: It's obviously still super enjoyable (which goes for most anything I "complain" about here), but does the final Pucci fight at the end of Stone Ocean make any sense? Like, just trying to logic out what's sped up and what isn't is kind of weird in and of itself. But even then, how is it that Emporio is the only person other than Pucci who makes it into the next universe (ignoring that yeah, the other actual characters died), just because he ran away at that last moment? Also, if Pucci is acting in real time which is what causes him to go super fast in comparison... shouldn't he not make it to the next universe thanks to aging? It still works to read through, but it feels like it really falls apart if you try to make sense of it.
I also do want to say it's kind of interesting the way plot threads can just kind of amount to nothing of significance. It could be seen as bad, but it also kind of allows things to be less predictable as well. Like, the guy who inspired Josuke's hair didn't have any real significance, the girl who's traveling with the group for a while in Stardust Crusaders goes away and never comes back, and Fugo leaves the group and the story and never reappears. The only one that kind of bugs me is that we never get anything explanation or details on Joseph apparently just straight up having an affair, which caught me off guard and struck me as more a way to shove Josuke into the line while not jumping too far in the timeline.
It also does speak a lot for the series that I have a hard time deciding which part is my favorite, as they all seem to excel in one area or another. Like, even though part 5 is the one I can most easily rule out (noting that 8 is still in progress and 1+2 are a bit of a different thing), I'd say it probably still had my favorite secondary cast in addition to a ton of great fights. I will say that it's a bit of a shame that, for me, the final fights for parts 4 and 5 felt like they each dropped the ball in their own way. Like Yoshikage was a really neat villain... except when he was actively getting fought. Sheer Heart Attack was okay but didn't really use his cunning or personality at all (though it had an amazing aftermath). And then Bites the Dust was just an ability that set him up to fail. I kept expecting him to have some kind of clever traps or something that really tied together his ability and personality into an awesome final showdown, but instead... he just kind of turned Killer Queen into Krang by jamming in Stray Cat, and the result honestly felt weaker than either of those Stands separately. And was it even mentioned how he was controlling Stray Cat's ability, now that I think about it? And then part 5 had some awesome setup, only to kind of just deus ex machina it at the end.
In the end I think it's a toss up between Stone Ocean and SBR for my favorite, with SBR probably winning out just because I feel like a few of the fights in Stone Ocean were not the greatest (wasn't feeling the whole feng shui assassination thing too much, for one). Though I feel part 4 could've totally taken it for me if it stuck the ending better, and Josuke's definitely my favorite Jojo.
So yeah, there's a lot more to say, but honestly the series is a ton of fun and I look forward to picking more and more up as it continues to come out. There really is something special about it. Like, even with Stand powers that are virtually identical in ability, Araki manages to make the fights feel completely different. And each part really manages to grab its own unique feel, which is something it feels like he's only been getting better at over the years.
One last random question for now though: are any of the spin-off materials worth looking into? Like, I know there's at least some Rohan stuff, amongst other things? I'd definitely be willing to pick up some supplementary Jojo's stuff if any of it is worth bothering with.
(And then to add to this since I forgot: is FF not a very popular character? She ended up like my favorite side character, but then I was looking around and she seems to have nothing in the way of merchandise and didn't make it into All Star Battle. Though I'm still hopeful for Eyes of Heaven...)
Some random thoughts/questions/comments. The big one first: It's obviously still super enjoyable (which goes for most anything I "complain" about here), but does the final Pucci fight at the end of Stone Ocean make any sense? Like, just trying to logic out what's sped up and what isn't is kind of weird in and of itself. But even then, how is it that Emporio is the only person other than Pucci who makes it into the next universe (ignoring that yeah, the other actual characters died), just because he ran away at that last moment? Also, if Pucci is acting in real time which is what causes him to go super fast in comparison... shouldn't he not make it to the next universe thanks to aging? It still works to read through, but it feels like it really falls apart if you try to make sense of it.
I also do want to say it's kind of interesting the way plot threads can just kind of amount to nothing of significance. It could be seen as bad, but it also kind of allows things to be less predictable as well. Like, the guy who inspired Josuke's hair didn't have any real significance, the girl who's traveling with the group for a while in Stardust Crusaders goes away and never comes back, and Fugo leaves the group and the story and never reappears. The only one that kind of bugs me is that we never get anything explanation or details on Joseph apparently just straight up having an affair, which caught me off guard and struck me as more a way to shove Josuke into the line while not jumping too far in the timeline.
It also does speak a lot for the series that I have a hard time deciding which part is my favorite, as they all seem to excel in one area or another. Like, even though part 5 is the one I can most easily rule out (noting that 8 is still in progress and 1+2 are a bit of a different thing), I'd say it probably still had my favorite secondary cast in addition to a ton of great fights. I will say that it's a bit of a shame that, for me, the final fights for parts 4 and 5 felt like they each dropped the ball in their own way. Like Yoshikage was a really neat villain... except when he was actively getting fought. Sheer Heart Attack was okay but didn't really use his cunning or personality at all (though it had an amazing aftermath). And then Bites the Dust was just an ability that set him up to fail. I kept expecting him to have some kind of clever traps or something that really tied together his ability and personality into an awesome final showdown, but instead... he just kind of turned Killer Queen into Krang by jamming in Stray Cat, and the result honestly felt weaker than either of those Stands separately. And was it even mentioned how he was controlling Stray Cat's ability, now that I think about it? And then part 5 had some awesome setup, only to kind of just deus ex machina it at the end.
In the end I think it's a toss up between Stone Ocean and SBR for my favorite, with SBR probably winning out just because I feel like a few of the fights in Stone Ocean were not the greatest (wasn't feeling the whole feng shui assassination thing too much, for one). Though I feel part 4 could've totally taken it for me if it stuck the ending better, and Josuke's definitely my favorite Jojo.
So yeah, there's a lot more to say, but honestly the series is a ton of fun and I look forward to picking more and more up as it continues to come out. There really is something special about it. Like, even with Stand powers that are virtually identical in ability, Araki manages to make the fights feel completely different. And each part really manages to grab its own unique feel, which is something it feels like he's only been getting better at over the years.
One last random question for now though: are any of the spin-off materials worth looking into? Like, I know there's at least some Rohan stuff, amongst other things? I'd definitely be willing to pick up some supplementary Jojo's stuff if any of it is worth bothering with.
(And then to add to this since I forgot: is FF not a very popular character? She ended up like my favorite side character, but then I was looking around and she seems to have nothing in the way of merchandise and didn't make it into All Star Battle. Though I'm still hopeful for Eyes of Heaven...)
He means that they'll introduce Hol and Boingo at the end of D'arby like they introduced Oingo and Boingo at the end of Geb'N Doul.
SolarKnight
Member
The latest Jojolion spoilers should be marked yes, altho I don't think we've ever established for how long...
I know that he meant that
I know that he meant that
So spurred by the post about Avdol in the anime thread, but not going to post there since it's hard to have a "proper" discussion about it when it's not finished and I can't spoil it for them, obviously.
I've seen a fair bit of speculation about Avdol's return, and the most common theory is that Araki brought Avdol back due to fan pressure because they liked him so much, but Araki may have "killed" him off against Hol Horse/J. Geil due to not having any more ideas for him as a character, and then later bringing him back. I mean, at this point he's: fought Polnareff, "died" to Hol Horse, came back and fought Judgement (which was awesome, but that's just one fight of course) and now fought Mariah with Joseph in a not typical Stand battle... he hasn't really done much, and well, since he dies within seconds of entering the mansion... yeah.
Now it's obviously hard to corroborate any of this, as Stardust Crusaders is 20+ years old and I highly doubt there was a huge active Jojo's Bizarre Adventure community on the internet we can go back and look at. (Not to mention if there was, it'd be in Japanese, adding another barrier to gathering these kinds of opinions)
I've seen a fair bit of speculation about Avdol's return, and the most common theory is that Araki brought Avdol back due to fan pressure because they liked him so much, but Araki may have "killed" him off against Hol Horse/J. Geil due to not having any more ideas for him as a character, and then later bringing him back. I mean, at this point he's: fought Polnareff, "died" to Hol Horse, came back and fought Judgement (which was awesome, but that's just one fight of course) and now fought Mariah with Joseph in a not typical Stand battle... he hasn't really done much, and well, since he dies within seconds of entering the mansion... yeah.
Now it's obviously hard to corroborate any of this, as Stardust Crusaders is 20+ years old and I highly doubt there was a huge active Jojo's Bizarre Adventure community on the internet we can go back and look at. (Not to mention if there was, it'd be in Japanese, adding another barrier to gathering these kinds of opinions)
Werewolf Jones
Member
Tizoc
Member
Werewolf Jones
Member
I didn't know that the new character in Jojolion got a name.
Aisho Dainenjiyama.
A bit much.
Aisho Dainenjiyama.
A bit much.
Joseph's reaction (especially the eye twitching) made that scene, holy crap was this a funny episode.Made a gif of the best parts
Tizoc
Member
Made a gif of the best parts
Can you make a gif of just Joseph's eye please?
Tizoc
Member
Thanks! Dat Abdul doe XD.
I don't either but my cursory knowledge of the language seems to imply she does indeed call them shit-eating bitches.
She begins with bitchi (which is the japanese romanization of bitch) and then immediately says kuso, which is shit, and then I can't really tell what the next word is because of the way the VA goes nuts while saying, but it should be taberu, which is eating.
So, with my cursory knowledge in Japanese, she is indeed saying shit-eating bitches.
I mean, it's different than what the translated page of the manga is, there's no way to interpret it as anything else as far as I can tell.
Joseph and Avdol were acting pretty smug after burning a hole into the ground, though. And they have some shit-eating grins.
Werewolf Jones
Member
When you script an anime you don't have to follow the manga dialogue word for word. That's all I'm sayin'
Just gonna quickly answer what jumps out to me:
Fugo was written out because Purple Haze is utterly busted and it's nearly impossible to design an interesting battle around it.
Kira needed some sort of time shenanigans, because, well, every antagonist does.
And Pucci is obviously exempted from the effects of his own stand. That's kinda the point of the whole thing.
As for the non-canon stuff, the Rohan books are worth checking out. If you can read japanese you can give the novels a shot, for nothing else than their batshit insanity.
Riposte
Member
Purple Haze would have been a good counter for Crimson King.
Not really. KC is faster and can predict when the virus would be released. So then it erases the time the bubble breaks and nothing happened.
It's been almost a decade since I've read Phantom Blood to Stardust Crusaders, so I recently bought the JoJonium collection for the first three arcs.
Man I'm really digging the redesigns and stylizations that Araki has done for his earlier work on the covers.
The only character redesign I dislike so far is Joseph Joestar's since they took a lot of his initial traits and moved those towards Jonathan instead. Jonathan looks more like Joseph while Joseph looks like a new character now.
I hope Araki continues as I'd love to see a newer redesign for Josuke. I think everything from Giorno and are more or less similar to new style.
I can't say I like the new designs more, but I really do like them and find them quite fresh and modernized for the new Steel Ball Run universe.
Has anyone else picked up JoJonium and any thoughts on Araki's new stylizations of the first three arcs?
Man I'm really digging the redesigns and stylizations that Araki has done for his earlier work on the covers.
The only character redesign I dislike so far is Joseph Joestar's since they took a lot of his initial traits and moved those towards Jonathan instead. Jonathan looks more like Joseph while Joseph looks like a new character now.
I hope Araki continues as I'd love to see a newer redesign for Josuke. I think everything from Giorno and are more or less similar to new style.
I can't say I like the new designs more, but I really do like them and find them quite fresh and modernized for the new Steel Ball Run universe.
Has anyone else picked up JoJonium and any thoughts on Araki's new stylizations of the first three arcs?
The effect of the stand is that everything else is sped up though, right? Like, that's why he's moving super fast, as he's still moving in real time. But in that case wouldn't he be living out the whole fast-forward to universal reset in real time and thus be long dead from aging? I guess the real question is still how Emporio survived while no other human being from the old universe did, since I guess Pucci could just do whatever that is?
Edit: Also, thanks for the responses, especially the okay on the spinoff stuff. I'll definitely tag those to my next import order then.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I always wondered if Emporio survived unchanged during the final reboot due to being inside Burning Down the House while Weather Report beat the crap out of Pucci.
Emporio's Stand creates a hiding place that doesn't physically exist, so perhaps it prevented Emporio from being remade along with everyone else.
Emporio's Stand creates a hiding place that doesn't physically exist, so perhaps it prevented Emporio from being remade along with everyone else.
Whenever the universe resets anyone who was alive during the reset takes the place of the them that would normally be present, while the dead never continue to the new universe. So the Jolyne and Jotaro you see in the vistor's room in the new universe isn't the same Jolyne and Jotaro, as they didn't live to see the end of the reset. This is evidenced by Emporio arriving in the new universe naked, as he opens the trash can and takes the clothes of the Emporio that was in the trash can until he arrived in the new universe.
Conversely, Pucci's actions here are also predestined, despite him controlling the speed of the universe. Because this all occurs when Jolyne and Jotaro are meeting in the visitor's room, and this is when Pucci shows up to take Jotaro's discs, except since his spirit travels from the past universe to this one, and is stand also travels with him, as stands are tied to the spirit and not the body.
See: part 5 when everyone swapped bodies at the end when fighting King Crimson, everyone still had their respective stands and did not have the stand of somebody else, excluding Polnareff, because his stand separated from him after getting stabbed with the arrow.
He already knows everything and knows that he needs to eliminate Emporio, then he can worry about anything else that might happen, because he knows nobody else but Emporio makes it to this point.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Someone from Jojo GAF buy the Phantom Blood release and tell me of the name changes, if there's anything serious I'll just stick to importing.
SolarKnight
Member
Pretty sure we would've heard of any a while ago because it released digitally a month or two ago
Werewolf Jones
Member
So there's been no changes so far? Hmm, well it's not until late PB the names of characters based off of bands and such start dropping hard
Made in Heaven's time acceleration doesn't affect living organisms or rather anything with a "biological clock". Everyone save for Emporio dies prior to the actual reset, thus being "replaced". Humans and animals that are alive at the time of the universe reset get simply "relocated" into the newly created universe, in which their arrival was always preordained by fate (Pucci's driving motivation).
The only one's exempt from that are Pucci (making him basically the god of the new universe), Emporio (because he was an unknown element) and likely Giorno and Diavolo.
Pucci's goal was to re-make the world in his (and Dio's, I guess) image, in which all actions of others are predetermined by fate and he can rule and influence it via his Stand as he sees fit. If you read the whole thing in the context of determinism vs. free will, a lot of thngs like the setting in a prison fall into place.
Here's an interesting blog post that goes a bit into this:
http://thecartdriver.com/manga-driver-jojos-bizarre-adventure-stone-ocean/
While it isn't my favourite part, Stone Ocean is probably the most intriguing from a meta-narrative/philosophical point of view.
Kars went out like a jobber though
It starts slow (for me) but I really enjoyed the back half of the arc.
Not even Araki was able to pull something out of his ass that would actually kill Kars.
I think that once you get to Sports Max it really kicks into high gear and then it kind of drags in the solitary confinement ward as much as I love Dragon's Dream, and then when you get to F.F Witness and everything after you're completely hooked.
I think Heavy Weather is one of my favorite set of chapters in all of Jojo's, I'd put it up there with stuff like D4C, Dio's World, Sheer Heart Attack and Bites the Dust.
zedreamcast
Member
I dunno needing to be shot into space after having a plane ram you into a volcano doesnt seem like a very jobber way to go.
Blackquill
Member
Why Giornio and Diavolo ? And why Emporio is a unknown element ?
Emporio isn't an unknown element, but he made it through the universe reset alive, anyone who was alive when the universe reset as a result of Pucci's death hypothetically makes it to the next universe with their spirit intact, assuming the new universe that was created as a result of Pucci's death follows the same rules as in this image, even if it's a completely different timeline, which dictates that anyone dead does not make it to the new universe, but there is still a counterpart of them in the new universe. And, as I said, anyone alive when it resets retains their experiences and makes it to the new universe while replacing the "them" that was created.
There have been no stories in the universe created by Pucci's death to corroborate this theory, though, as it's obvious from the Joestar family tree in Jojolion that Irene doesn't exist, and that the SBRverse is different.
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