Jonathan Hickman’s New Avengers / Avengers |OT| Thanos is in this (Spoilers)

PsychBat! said:
Yeah, but some threads are usually split on that kind of stuff. I'm glad we don't have to do it for the main OT.

Hashtags are a good idea too.
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I think we've been pretty good about spoilers so far here, aside from Birdie anyway. Black bars all the time suck and I think the 24-hour rule we have is a good compromise. I say we keep that going for the next OT.

If we're doing the hashtags we're gonna need some help, people.

NA24 is easy tho, #AndThenTheyKissed.
 
Coriolanus said:
Living happily ever after. Since MM originates and generally hangs around earth, baleeting earth implies that they also baleeted their MM, at which point they're also safe.
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yeah, which leads to my next question of why 616 seems to be throwing in the towel and giving up instead of banding together and raining hell on the Ultimate universe.

Besides whatever Thanos is hiding the Ultimate universe is acting like normal and believes they'll be saved if they just blow up 616, meanwhile Tony and Steve are fighting and Panther point blank said they're all dead.
 
The Silver said:
yeah, which leads to my next question of why 616 seems to be throwing in the towel and giving up instead of banding together and raining hell on the Ultimate universe.
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Basically they all came together and decided that survival wasn't worth the cost, genocide. That and they have no idea what happens after the final incursion, maybe the final world just goes boom or fades into nothing. There's too many variables and things they just don't know in this case, the best plan is to figure out how to survive in the white void between universes as that'll be the only thing left after it's all said and done.

Ultimate Fury is running off of even worse intel than the 616 as the only ones who know how incursions work are either lying to him or leaving out important facts. If he knew what the 616 did, that they Beyonders were out there killing gods, he might not be making the moves he is.
 
The Silver said:
yeah, which leads to my next question of why 616 seems to be throwing in the towel and giving up instead of banding together and raining hell on the Ultimate universe.

Besides whatever Thanos is hiding the Ultimate universe is acting like normal and believes they'll be saved if they just blow up 616, meanwhile Tony and Steve are fighting and Panther point blank said they're all dead.
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In the Secret Wars 0 leaks we see
616 Hulks fuck up the Triskelion.
 
B-Dubs said:
Basically they all came together and decided that survival wasn't worth the cost, genocide. That and they have no idea what happens after the final incursion, maybe the final world just goes boom or fades into nothing. There's too many variables and things they just don't know in this case, the best plan is to figure out how to survive in the white void between universes as that'll be the only thing left after it's all said and done.

Ultimate Fury is running off of even worse intel than the 616 as the only ones who know how incursions work are either lying to him or leaving out important facts. If he knew what the 616 did, that they Beyonders were out there killing gods, he might not be making the moves he is.
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There's nothing saying they can't create their ark at the same time as banding together the remaing people and making one last stand in trying to save themselves.

You say they have all these variables then I can just as easily say the Beyonders are gonna come and blow up whatever ark they made after the universe is destroyed, under those circumstances it doesn't make sense to not at least try to do everything you can.

They don't wanna commit genocide again? That's dumb since they just got finished killing god knows how many aliens without blinking an eye.
 
616 people are all about feeling guilty and noble, turning the other cheek until they aren't. You don't get to be in the last round of incursions if you're all a bunch of cosmic Gandhis.
They just vaporized the armies of every galactic empire out there and didn't flinch. The second they Ultimate Reed's ugly mug, the Cabal and that invading army, they won't feel so noble and will start blowing shit up.

I just hope Strange and Doom come back to join the fun. 90% of Ultimate characters are total assholes and I'll enjoy seeing them blown to bits.
 
Palette Swap said:
616 people are all about feeling guilty and noble, turning the other cheek until they aren't. You don't get to be in the last round of incursions if you're all a bunch of cosmic Gandhis.
They just vaporized the armies of every galactic empire out there and didn't flinch. The second they Ultimate Reed's ugly mug, the Cabal and that invading army, they won't feel so noble and will start blowing shit up.

I just hope Strange and Doom come back to join the fun. 90% of Ultimate characters are total assholes and I'll enjoy seeing them blown to bits.
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Ultimate Reed is a fine looking young(1000 year old) man, how dare you.
 
Palette Swap said:
I just hope Strange and Doom come back to join the fun. 90% of Ultimate characters are total assholes and I'll enjoy seeing them blown to bits.
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Seriously, if there were ever a universe that deserves to get their collective shit pushed in it's the Ultimate Universe. Miles is literally the only one worth saving out of everyone there.
 
B-Dubs said:
Seriously, if there were ever a universe that deserves to get their collective shit pushed in it's the Ultimate Universe. Miles is literally the only one worth saving out of everyone there.
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U. Reed and U. Banner are cool dudes, as is. Took them 24 hours to create utopia, then Shield went "fuckyou we running this shit". U. Cap even remarked that it only took them a couple of days to do far more good than Shield ever did.

Also, as far as U. Fury going gung ho is concerned, one should keep in mind that his favoured method of engaging the enemy was to drop an unstoppable cannibalistic beast on top of it.

Has anyone gotten around to explaining how Goat Victor survived getting his skull caved in by the thing?
 
Coriolanus said:
U. Reed and U. Banner are cool dudes, as is. Took them 24 hours to create utopia, then Shield went "fuckyou we running this shit". U. Cap even remarked that it only took them a couple of days to do far more good than Shield ever did.

Also, as far as U. Fury going gung ho is concerned, one should keep in mind that his favoured method of engaging the enemy was to drop an unstoppable cannibalistic beast on top of it.

Has anyone gotten around to explaining how Goat Victor survived getting his skull caved in by the thing?
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the Doom that got killed was Sue's mother posing as him

Real Doom had the goat legs, the Doom running around the entire time with normal legs was Sue's mom.
 
The Silver said:
the Doom that got killed was Sue's mother posing as him

Real Doom had the goat legs, the Doom running around the entire time with normal legs was Sue's mom.
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For the love of fuck tell me you're joking.

Who the fuck wrote THAT particular atrocity?

Gods, its like the writers still in that universe try to outdo each other on who has the shittiest idea.
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
A number of the early Ultimate Universe stories were actually really good, but the majority of the recent stuff has been total crap.
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I think the moment it jumped the shark was Ultimates vol. 3, which was gross. Then came Ultimatum, one of the worst books I've read.

Funnily enough, Bendis always gets shit for his 616 work but his Ultimate Spider-Man has been consistently great for over 200 issues now. That's the only part of the Ultimate universe I will miss.
 
Don't know if this is useful to anyone, but I made a quick and dirty reading order image.

17325736411_a6719d7735_o.png
 
The Silver said:
the Doom that got killed was Sue's mother posing as him

Real Doom had the goat legs, the Doom running around the entire time with normal legs was Sue's mom.
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... ... ...

what

Man, I love Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Fury and hell, the Ultimate universe gave us Marvel Zombies;

But there is a lot of shit going on in that universe
 
Ultimate Sue is also kinda crazy.

Some Spider-Pig dude from another universe told her that if she doesn't have a child with Reed and conceive Franklin that the universe is going to die as Franklin is needed.

Instead of just asking Reed for a "sample" like a normal person she decides to hold him down and try to castrate him.
 
The Silver said:
Ultimate Sue is also kinda crazy.

Some Spider-Pig dude from another universe told her that if she doesn't have a child with Reed and conceive Franklin that the universe is going to die as Franklin is needed.

Instead of just asking Reed for a "sample" like a normal person she decides to hold him down and try to castrate him.
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The fuck was that in?
 
So thinking on it some, when MM is killed, that universe eventually is destroyed. So when the New Avengers and Cabal were destroying Earths (and in the process killing MM's) there were in fact committing universal genocide.
 
Sinatar said:
So thinking on it some, when MM is killed, that universe eventually is destroyed. So when the New Avengers and Cabal were destroying Earths (and in the process killing MM's) there were in fact committing universal genocide.
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Ahm... no? What made you conclude that?
Killing a MM won't stop that universe from suffering an incursion down the line, however.

The universes get wiped out when a) both earths collide, or b) MM hits the 25 year time limit and an heroes.
 
Coriolanus said:
Ahm... no? What made you conclude that?
Killing a MM won't stop that universe from suffering an incursion down the line, however.

The universes get wiped out when a) both earths collide, or b) MM hits the 25 year time limit and an heroes.
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17140297899_a29dd26dc9_o.png
 
Coriolanus said:
He's explicitly stating that if he dies early, nothing happens. Besides, y'know, him dying. And the incursions following.
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"Sure it did"

EDIT: To further clarify. The incursions began occuring because universes vanished, the 'web' that holds them together began to contract and caused universes to collide. They had to kill enough MM's (and thus enough universes) to cause a contraction large enough to start the incursions. If MM's universes don't die, then killing him wouldn't cause anything.
 
Coriolanus said:
For the love of fuck tell me you're joking.

Who the fuck wrote THAT particular atrocity?

Gods, its like the writers still in that universe try to outdo each other on who has the shittiest idea.
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Yeah, it was a very awkward workaround because Jeph Loeb contradicted a bunch of stuff about Ultimate Doom in the first place and Fialkov (I think) came up with this way to explain it.

I am catching up on the non-Spider-Man Ultimate U post Loeb and man, he really is awful. Just terrible. Genuinely feels like he wrote as badly as possible on purpose to take the piss.
 
Fintan said:
Yeah, it was a very awkward workaround because Jeph Loeb contradicted a bunch of stuff about Ultimate Doom in the first place and Fialkov (I think) came up with this way to explain it.

I am catching up on the non-Spider-Man Ultimate U post Loeb and man, he really is awful. Just terrible. Genuinely feels like he wrote as badly as possible on purpose to take the piss.
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I think it was pretty much the case-he was bitter and angry about the death of his son and wanted to take it out in his work. I'm sorry for his loss, but it's not as if the output was some tremendous creative output.
 
Dalek said:
I think it was pretty much the case-he was bitter and angry about the death of his son and wanted to take it out in his work. I'm sorry for his loss, but it's not as if the output was some tremendous creative output.
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I'm reading Millar's second run on Ultimates, Ultimate Avengers. It's so dumb. I like Ultimates 1 and 2, but this is just too dumb. The art is really nice at least.
 
The Silver said:
Ultimate Sue is also kinda crazy.

Some Spider-Pig dude from another universe told her that if she doesn't have a child with Reed and conceive Franklin that the universe is going to die as Franklin is needed.

Instead of just asking Reed for a "sample" like a normal person she decides to hold him down and try to castrate him.
Click to expand...

B-Dubs said:
The fuck was that in?
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Coriolanus said:
Iirc Kang-Sue also said that. Well, that she needed to breed with him, anyway.
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Nils said:
Ultimate FF.

It was not very good.
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I could have sworn that it was Ben's child, not Reed's.
 
I assume Hickman's Ultimates/Avengers/Whatever run was good, right? That was way after my Ultimate Universe reading had come to a close.
 
shadyspace said:
I assume Hickman's Ultimates/Avengers/Whatever run was good, right? That was way after my Ultimate Universe reading had come to a close.
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It was good but cut way, way short. He wanted it to go on for years but he only got 9 issues out before Marvel decided to get him off the book and issues 10-12 were rushed to wrap up the story (Humphries was a co-writer for those three issues). Quality wise it plummeted right after issue 9.
 
Fintan said:
I'm reading Millar's second run on Ultimates, Ultimate Avengers. It's so dumb. I like Ultimates 1 and 2, but this is just too dumb. The art is really nice at least.
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I completely understand someone not liking that, but I had fun reading those. He's an ideas guy, and he's hit or miss for me, but he does do bombastic fun stuff like no one else. The image that stands out in my mind is
Cap surfing a teleporting Harrier jet.
 
Sinatar said:
"Sure it did"

EDIT: To further clarify. The incursions began occuring because universes vanished, the 'web' that holds them together began to contract and caused universes to collide. They had to kill enough MM's (and thus enough universes) to cause a contraction large enough to start the incursions. If MM's universes don't die, then killing him wouldn't cause anything.
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The problem with that interpretation is that then there is no point to killing the beyonders or the MMs, since, one way or the other, everything will end in 25 years, max, and the only recourse will be whatever meager existence they can manage in white space, chilling with mr. atomic underpants until TOAA gets off his fat ass and recreates everything.

Which is why i read the "sure it did" as "things have changed, you just havent done enough yet to see the cascading effects". Red incursions.

Plus, as reed said in early N.A., what caused the initial chain reaction wasnt several universes disappearing at once, but one. Blue incursions.

Then there's all the hoopla about how they were shanked-dead but not dead-dead, and so their corpses could still be used as IEDs and gaaahblfug

SArcher said:
Quality wise it plummeted right after issue 9.
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Id pay good money to see Hick's face when he found out that Tony's brain cancer saved the day.

No wonder one of the first things he did when he got control of U. Reed again was kill that thing.
 
I lol'd at them trying to redeem evil Reed then Hickman gets him back and is all "no I was screwing with you all, I'm still evil and in control of the City bitches"
 
The Silver said:
I lol'd at them trying to redeem evil Reed then Hickman gets him back and is all "no I was screwing with you all, I'm still evil and in control of the City bitches"
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Ahm... The first thing he and hulk did was end food scarcity, mate. He had legit allied with kang to save their universe.

He also killed tony because hey, who wouldnt?
 
Dalek said:
I completely understand someone not liking that, but I had fun reading those. He's an ideas guy, and he's hit or miss for me, but he does do bombastic fun stuff like no one else. The image that stands out in my mind is
Cap surfing a teleporting Harrier jet.
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Well, yeah, it does have the bombast but I guess I wanted just a bit more of something from it.

At least Nick Fury is still cool.

I've only read the first arc. Hope to get all the Ultimate stuff up to Death Of Spider-Man read in the next couple of days and then I'll be on to completely new stuff.

Is that Ultimate Doom Trilogy good? The initial introduction of Evil Reed, I think?
 
Coriolanus said:
Ahm... The first thing he and hulk did was end food scarcity, mate. He had legit allied with kang to save their universe.

He also killed tony because hey, who wouldnt?
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yes that was part of them trying to redeem him,

the thing I mentioned with Sue trying to castrate him also ends with Reed being a good guy and giving Sue Ben's DNA so she can have his child. It ends implying one day they might actually forgive Reed and be friends again.
 
shadyspace said:
Secret wars preview spoiler
who's the guy in the Iron Man suit coordinating with Fury then?
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It was Tony.
He transferred his consciousness to his Stark tech and ultimately his armor after Reed kills him. The Ultimates and Reed have a huge battle. Cap(?) manages to get an Infinity Gem Kang and Reed were fighting over. He gives it to Tony and inserts all the Infinity Gems in to the armor giving him unlimited power. Tony then revives himself in to his recently deceased body, good as new.
The Silver said:
yes that was part of them trying to redeem him,

the thing I mentioned with Sue trying to castrate him also ends with Reed being a good guy and giving Sue Ben's DNA so she can have his child. It ends implying one day they might actually forgive Reed and be friends again.
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I was so confused and kinda happy that Hickman waved that away.
 
I feel like the stakes would feel even higher right now if Hickman was allowed to do the Ultimates book as long as he wanted (possibly ending it along with Avengers & New Avengers). That would have been glorious.
 
Did Hickman actually get the boot from Ultimates, or did they offer him the actual Avengers titles instead? Doesn't make sense to forcibly take him off a book like the Ultimates when no one with any real selling power took over in his absence.
 
Ultimates #9 came out in April 2012 and Hickman's Avengers started in December 2012 so yeah, they offered him the Avengers titles. I'm guessing Marvel felt that Hickman doing a low-selling book like the Ultimates would be a waste of talent.
 
Palette Swap said:
616 people are all about feeling guilty and noble, turning the other cheek until they aren't. You don't get to be in the last round of incursions if you're all a bunch of cosmic Gandhis.
They just vaporized the armies of every galactic empire out there and didn't flinch. The second they Ultimate Reed's ugly mug, the Cabal and that invading army, they won't feel so noble and will start blowing shit up.

I just hope Strange and Doom come back to join the fun. 90% of Ultimate characters are total assholes and I'll enjoy seeing them blown to bits.
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Lol WUT?! The Ultimate Universe characters behave like real people and in real life not everyone is noble and nice 100% of the time. Judging by the final page of avengers it looks like 616 is finally getting its ass handed to them by the Ultimates.
 
Gambit 1138 said:
Lol WUT?! The Ultimate Universe characters behave like real people and in real life not everyone is noble and nice 100% of the time. Judging by the final page of avengers it looks like 616 is finally getting its ass handed to them by the Ultimates.
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Why are you a 15 year old from 2005?
 
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