Someone refresh my memory because I'm definitely forgetting something
why is 616 just giving up and saying it doesn't matter and they're all gonna die? So blowing up the Ultimate earth won't matter and their universe will still die no matter what correct?
He's talking about Wakanda. Blowing up worlds doesn't matter anymore. "Isn't there anyone willing to help?" He might have been once, there could have been a way to save more people if he still had a country at his disposal, but they paid the Cabal's price with Wakanda. So all he has to offer is the awful truth and nothing else, "Ash."
This. I like this. Now to see if it was right once Secret Wars starts.Guys here's my theory on what Doom did to the Beyonders. If I'm right, Hickmann or Doom is a damn genius.
New Avengers 32 and 33 Spoilers. You'll need New Avengers #33 with you to follow along... I know I have mine as I'm typing this.
Strange and Doom never actually mention what they see when Doom cracks open the floor. I believe that all the clues of what they saw are littered across the book.
The comic never reveals whats in the floor. You just see purple energy flowing out of it and Strange being absolutely appalled. He can't even muster a "Hoary Fucking Hosts of Hoggoth."
In the final pages, you can see that Doom throws some sort of building at the Beyonders, it begins to crack open and something emerges in the final panel heading towards the Beyonders rift. The dialogue stating "I throw back in your face".
I propose that in that floor container were the hundreds of thousands of the Molecule Men that Doom and the Black Swans had murdered.
In Doom's boasting when he confronts the Beyonders, "I have taken what is yours and made it mine.", he's not referring to the Owen Reece of 616, he's referring to all Molecule Men across the multiverse that he's collected.
His plan was to blow them the fuck up with their own weapon at their point of origin.
How can you prove this?
The first molecule man voluntarily lays down in the middle of a symbol and stabbed with a buoy knife. If you look at the panel where Doom is first introduced to the library, the holy of holies room has that same symbol on the doorway. I think the buoy knife, the symbol and the room have a connection, why else is doom just running around stabbing Reece's with the same thing?
Doom is shown what the plan is when the Reece's say:
"He [Doom] doesn't understand it yet."
"Of course not. Explaining it isn't enough."
"No we have to show him".
After stabbing the first Reece, they go to the library where MM says they're unobservable from anything. This is where the other MM's are ending up.
When Doom opens up the floor in front of Strange the purple energy similar to all of how MM's powers have been colored through the whole storyline are rising out. Chronologically, Doom's just explained that Reece is a multi-universal Nuke and then points down into what he's collecting.
" Come and look Stephen. Do you see? Do you understand?"
[U]Why did the Black Swans turn away?[/U]
In meeting the first Black Swan:
"Why'd you hurt that man?"
"Because THAT MAN was unwillingly going to hurt us all"
Doom taught the Swans that MM's had to die because they will be a danger to everyone.
Later as the religion grew you see a Black Swan Stabbing a MM in the back with the with Doom's dialogue: "Acting on what you believe has a way of solidifying dogma. It changes the way you think. It changes the way you speak."
So blindly following this, it warped their views and grew the religion.
When the 5 Black Swans peeked into the holy of holies room:
"What did you do that made them turn from you?"
"There was nothing done...It was something seen.
What the Swans witnessed in that room was that this great evil they thought they were protecting the universe from, were being collected by the thousands by Rabum Alal. They were lied to.
What was Owen's reaction to the plan?
"It's genius. It's insane. ITS PERFECT."
Owen even says "Hello. Hello. Hello" He's not saying it three times because he's losing his sanity. He's saying Hello to the hundreds and thousand of his dead self. When Strange contests. Owen Says: "Hey! its got MY seal of approval".
The explosion either caused other multiverses to explode due to it, or the bodies of the MM's weren't actually dead until that point and then upon exploding in front of the Beyonders caused the ends of those hundreds of thousands of worlds Reed mentions on the last page. "Damn your cause. Damn the cost"
I'm thinking the fade to white panels either the plan failed, the beyonders weren't all killed, the detonation was too early or was larger than Doom had thought. It's not his first time miscalculating an explosion.
MM didn't expose it in this issue but bear in mind he offered this to Doom because he was working with him on understanding the incursions.I didn't like how the plan wasn't Victor's. Felt like it could have been anyone who MM chose to execute this plan.
Only Victor has the time/space machine needed for the execution.
Plus MM sed 616 victor was extra special, due in no small part due to the culling of dooms, once again confirming that reed is a twat, regardless of universe.
I thought that was where they were going initially with the phase shift. Let Ultimate Earth just kill the rogue planet and everything is saved, then phase out.One thing that has bothered me, however, is that, since this is the last incursion, it was never explained why 616 couldn't simply phase-shift with the rogue planet and let it collide with Ultimate Earth instead.
Now that I've wrapped my head around NA #33 I've got to say that it's awfully convenient that Beyonders, who appear to be the most powerful beings in all of the Marvel Universe and are named Beyonders because they come from beyond the confines of time and space, can't travel in time. Everyone and their cat has done some time travel shenanigans in the Marvel Universe.
Guys here's my theory on what Doom did to the Beyonders. If I'm right, Hickmann or Doom is a damn genius.
New Avengers 32 and 33 Spoilers. You'll need New Avengers #33 with you to follow along... I know I have mine as I'm typing this.
Strange and Doom never actually mention what they see when Doom cracks open the floor. I believe that all the clues of what they saw are littered across the book.
The comic never reveals whats in the floor. You just see purple energy flowing out of it and Strange being absolutely appalled. He can't even muster a "Hoary Fucking Hosts of Hoggoth."
In the final pages, you can see that Doom throws some sort of building at the Beyonders, it begins to crack open and something emerges in the final panel heading towards the Beyonders rift. The dialogue stating "I throw back in your face".
I propose that in that floor container were the hundreds of thousands of the Molecule Men that Doom and the Black Swans had murdered.
In Doom's boasting when he confronts the Beyonders, "I have taken what is yours and made it mine.", he's not referring to the Owen Reece of 616, he's referring to all Molecule Men across the multiverse that he's collected.
His plan was to blow them the fuck up with their own weapon at their point of origin.
How can you prove this?
The first molecule man voluntarily lays down in the middle of a symbol and stabbed with a buoy knife. If you look at the panel where Doom is first introduced to the library, the holy of holies room has that same symbol on the doorway. I think the buoy knife, the symbol and the room have a connection, why else is doom just running around stabbing Reece's with the same thing?
Doom is shown what the plan is when the Reece's say:
"He [Doom] doesn't understand it yet."
"Of course not. Explaining it isn't enough."
"No we have to show him".
After stabbing the first Reece, they go to the library where MM says they're unobservable from anything. This is where the other MM's are ending up.
When Doom opens up the floor in front of Strange the purple energy similar to all of how MM's powers have been colored through the whole storyline are rising out. Chronologically, Doom's just explained that Reece is a multi-universal Nuke and then points down into what he's collecting.
" Come and look Stephen. Do you see? Do you understand?"
[U]Why did the Black Swans turn away?[/U]
In meeting the first Black Swan:
"Why'd you hurt that man?"
"Because THAT MAN was unwillingly going to hurt us all"
Doom taught the Swans that MM's had to die because they will be a danger to everyone.
Later as the religion grew you see a Black Swan Stabbing a MM in the back with the knife with Doom's dialogue: "Acting on what you believe has a way of solidifying dogma. It changes the way you think. It changes the way you speak."
So blindly following this, it warped their views and grew the religion.
When the 5 Black Swans peeked into the holy of holies room:
"What did you do that made them turn from you?"
"There was nothing done...It was something seen.
What the Swans witnessed in that room was that this great evil they thought they were protecting the universe from, were being collected by the thousands by Rabum Alal. They were lied to.
What was Owen's reaction to the plan?
"It's genius. It's insane. ITS PERFECT."
Owen even says "Hello. Hello. Hello" He's not saying it three times because he's losing his sanity. He's saying Hello to the hundreds and thousand of his dead self. When Strange contests. Owen Says: "Hey! its got MY seal of approval".
The explosion either caused other multiverses to explode due to it, or the bodies of the MM's weren't actually dead until that point and then upon exploding in front of the Beyonders caused the ends of those hundreds of thousands of worlds Reed mentions on the last page. "Damn your cause. Damn the cost"
I'm thinking the fade to white panels either the plan failed, the beyonders weren't all killed, the detonation was too early or was larger than Doom had thought. It's not his first time miscalculating an explosion.
It's kind of necessary right? Otherwise why wouldn't the all-powerful beings repeatedly travel back in time until everything finally goes their way?
Ok did all those universes die because that explosion was a shit ton of universe's MM dying?
Also didn't Thor/hyperion/ and the rest die after the 100K universes died, but they are dead at the point that Doom enacts that plan?
TRO images are done, need to make the logo for the OT and then we can discuss subtitles for the thread while I work on battleworld.
It's kind of necessary right? Otherwise why wouldn't the all-powerful beings repeatedly travel back in time until everything finally goes their way?
The best working theory, as illustrated on this page, is that Doom indeed threw a shitload of MM at the Beyonders.
The temporality here is pretty clear: Doom came after Thor's and Hyperion's death, as illustrated by Thorr's hammer. Thousands of universes disappearing happened after the Multiversal Avengers departed on their journey. We've just learned that they all died before these universes disappeared.
Nah. It was mentioned many times that the initial confrontation between the mainstream universe and the ultimate universe would take place in the first SW issue. And that neither will survive.It's kind of strange that there was seemingly nobattleworld setup still. I can't be the only one who assumed that TRO was going to end with the reveal of it?
Huh guess I missed that.Nah. It was mentioned many times that the initial confrontation between the mainstream universe and the ultimate universe would take place in the first SW issue.
Huh guess I missed that.
TRO images are done, need to make the logo for the OT and then we can discuss subtitles for the thread while I work on battleworld.
Honestly, I think we need some more contributors for small descriptions of each TRO issue and possibly the tie ins.Obviously the subtitle should be "Thanos is still in this."
Honestly, I think we need some more contributors for small descriptions of each TRO issue and possibly the tie ins.
I think it's twenty. And the descriptions don't have to be long. Probably could be as long as a tweet.god that's like 16 issues
I think it's twenty. And the descriptions don't have to be long. Probably could be as long as a tweet.
Perfect.#HashtagRabumAlol
I think it's twenty. And the descriptions don't have to be long. Probably could be as long as a tweet.
In that case, it has to be semi-detailed and full of spoilers.We could just do a general summary of TRO, a description for 20 issues sound like a lot.
|OT| Hulk's still not Happy about It
|OT| It's Not a Reboot
In that case, it has to be semi-detailed and full of spoilers.
#HashtagRabumAlol
Yeah, but some threads are usually split on that kind of stuff. I'm glad we don't have to do it for the main OT.I mean if you're coming into the SW OT shouldn't you expect open spoilers for everything that's happened leading up to #1?
So what happens(ed) to the other universes that got their earth destroyed and were "saved"?
I love that Spider-Man figure variant.
The Doom figure from Secret Wars was my first exposure to him. I saw it on the shelf and wanted it because he looked badass.I love that Spider-Man figure variant.
That toy was my first Marvel thing everalong a Doom figure because Doom is awesome.
My parents didn't want to get me the Captain America figure because Reagan or something lol.
God I feel old.
Hey, guys. Buzzfeed actually has a nice summary post for the set-up to Secret Wars that effectively summarizes the key points of the Avengers, New Avengers, and Time Runs Out. If you think you're forgetting anything important, here's the link. Warning, it actively spoils recent issues of the books, including the issues of Avengers and New Avengers that came out yesterday.