According to Namor.
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Jonathan Hickmans New Avengers / Avengers |OT| Thanos is in this (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Mudcrab
- Start date
According to Namor.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
I'll probably need to read all of this run again.
Is there a chart somewhere that classifies the builders, mapmakers and all the others that Hickman made?
Is there a chart somewhere that classifies the builders, mapmakers and all the others that Hickman made?
Escape Goat
Member
Thisbis why Namor >>>>>> aquaman
Coriolanus
Banned
And namor took for his. And sued for peace. And we know how shuri reacted to that.
Stark attempting to commit suicide in here still leaves me in awe.
Using a massive flood to nearly destroy Wakanda isn't something Namor can walk away from and expect no retaliation.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
The last New Avengers arc was so damn amazing
It was a monthly roller coaster, too bad the artists were swapped mid-arc. Kinda disorienting.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Well he has the Ebon priests helmet.... So I think in the end we learn the Ebon Kings are just evil illuminati groups (maybe hunted on their world's to the point they said fuck it and wwent to a world of their own to protect their home planets?) And Strange is just their priest.
Considering how messed up time is in between worlds, remember that the incursion that brought the fake JL to their beat down happened in their universe before it did in the 616, Strange himself could very well give birth to them. Avengers already showed us what the mapmakers are and it does seem like the cause may be related to the 616 universe.
You should see his groveling face in the most recent issue.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
If it leads to the 616 I would be impressed cause I hadn't thought of that. It's crazy how long this storyline has gone on and how few answers to Wtf is going on have been given.
Well in Avengers we got a big hint that the mapmakers are just those robots that AIM made but fucked up. I wouldn't be shocked at all if the other big guns are also from the 616 or related to it in some way. With the way time flows between universes it's entirely possible. We can't rule shit out.
That's the second thing I love about the guy!
Doom pls, I need your help man. Cabal is crazy as fuck, they're getting high on killing. Doom, I made a huge mistake. His face when Doom tells him he's no man's second choice is priceless. Doom's son being all casual when he thanks Namor for coming to dinner is pretty funny as well.
Laughing Black
Banned
There should never be killing. That should be nice and clear. Why are people so fucking thick? Fuck all the code talk and just don't kill. How stupid can assholes be?
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Cool thread. I'm really really enjoying this run. It's perhaps a bit too heady at times but damn the payoffs are massive when they arrive. Anyone enjoying this who has not read Hickman's Fantastic Four run needs to get on that ASAP.
Pity the non-regular readers trying to figure out the reading order for this bad boy though. But to be fair, I doubt most non-regular comics readers would be able to follow it anyway, it's so dense. I however, am a pig in shit.
Pity the non-regular readers trying to figure out the reading order for this bad boy though. But to be fair, I doubt most non-regular comics readers would be able to follow it anyway, it's so dense. I however, am a pig in shit.
Manmademan
Member
There is no "non killing" choice here.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Namor has been a total fucking boss as long as Hickman's been writing him. Recently the series has been giving me major Game of Thrones vibes - this is a story about kings and their special morality. Namor is a strong, single minded king. Panther is a king without a kingdom and he's struggling with his human morality vs the king morality (LOVED those issues with the ghosts).
I love that this story isn't about supervillains and things, it's about morals and interpersonal drama. And Cap being wrong.
Memento Mori
Member
Woah. I've been thinking for a while that Rabum Alal was either going to be Galactus or a version of Stark (Avengers #1 calling him death) but that "Everything would end sooner" quote is pretty blatant.I can't help thinking that name is some kind of red herring. Sounds arabic, but it can't be.
I did see some speculation around that it's some kind of alternate galactus that ALMOST got born in FF #600, which coincidentally was written by hickman.
That explanation almost works TOO well though.I didn't read the issue though so I don't have any other context with that scan.
Coriolanus
Banned
Priorities. In the face of a pan-cosmic threat, Namor can reasonably expect retaliation to be postponed in favor of more important things. Which was exactly his line of reasoning with Tchalla. To which Reed agreed and told him to get the fucking peace accord done already. Which is where we're once again back to blaming Tchalla for failing to convince Shuri to agree to peace.
Even their nazi father understood that the target of their wrath was Namor, not Atlantis. Collective punishment is bad mmkay? Then again, Shuri remembers what happened the last time she tried to solo the fishman.
End of the day, and as far as we know, it sure as heck didn't work out well for wakanda either. But hey, at least they got to attack Atlantis.
You probably misread that bit. Reed explains that the Mirror is capable of looking at almost any time into the past, but only a couple of hours into the future due to quantum. When they saw the incursion happening in nega-jla earth, tchalla states that the machine was seeing into that couple of hours window the future. They happened simultaneously.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Jean Grey wanted to eat planets? An alien planet she had never been to before? The Phoenix did all that shit another recent retcon, being in Jean allowed the guardian of the m'krann crystal feel volition and emotion and it tried them both, the beings immense power is what made it so fucking dangerous to be bonded with anyone mortal that had free will and morals because they weren't consistent. Even Galactus told off the phoenix for this post being linked with Jean Grey. The guardian of the crystal is supposed to be just that, because you know, thats the actual relic of power, not the phoenix...oh wait another convenient change. Jean ultimately died because she knew the Phoenix with ANY MORTAL BEING was too dangerous and the way to release it was to kill its avatar.
So yeah its still all recent changes to character , AvX was what 2 years ago , the other 60+ years of Sub Mariner in his own stories, marvel presents, The Defenders, Avengers and FF4 say that Namor has definitely been drastically changed, even if he did ultimately buy time for Doom to do his work.
demosthenes
Member
Some people eat ice cream when they're emotional, maybe some people eat planets.
i'm clearly joking
LoL. What the hell did Namor expect would happen?
"Well, let's see. How about I gather the worst murderous psychopaths my universe produced and let them go on a genocidal killing spree across the multi-verse with no accountability."
"What? They actually like the killing? They can't be controlled? How could this happen!!!"
"Well, let's see. How about I gather the worst murderous psychopaths my universe produced and let them go on a genocidal killing spree across the multi-verse with no accountability."
"What? They actually like the killing? They can't be controlled? How could this happen!!!"
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Seriously?? That's fucked up.
Escape Goat
Member
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I like it because I think Namor felt he was one of them. And then was surprised to learn that he wasn't. Which is kinda positive for the character, really. I hope that he has an about face, tries to save the day and then just when he's about to T'Challa comes up behind and snaps his neck.
Yeah. There's too much bad blood between Namor and BP. I see one of them killing the other before all is said and done. Either than or Namor making some sacrifice to try to make up for what he's done.
Yeah, the Ghosts telling Panther he had a responsibility to do this stuff, and then Namor being the one that did it stood out. Then again, the Ghosts didn't exactly come off in a good light either a page ahead with the "Y u no kill nao!!!" bit.
Much as I like the story overall, there's some bits that seem a bit fruity. Mainly the Illuminati building these bombs, fending off incursions, and then losing their shit cause one of them was used to save their families. Its hard not to see them as being sort of stupid. Namor immediately going with Thantos and company seemed like a hiccup too. Namor and Doom always had their monarch bromance going.. Going farther back, letting the Illuminati mindwipe Cap was another one. Mostly chalked it up to Comics! but still.
Much as I like the story overall, there's some bits that seem a bit fruity. Mainly the Illuminati building these bombs, fending off incursions, and then losing their shit cause one of them was used to save their families. Its hard not to see them as being sort of stupid. Namor immediately going with Thantos and company seemed like a hiccup too. Namor and Doom always had their monarch bromance going.. Going farther back, letting the Illuminati mindwipe Cap was another one. Mostly chalked it up to Comics! but still.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Wasn't it "No Man's Second Choice"?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The exact quotation:
"You should have thought of that, Namor, and more carefully considered your position. You should have known better... Doom is no man's second choice."
Coriolanus
Banned
That would've probably been better if it had come after the atlantean saved their asses. Bad enough that Tchalla didn't kill him, now he and wakanda owe him their continued existence because, unlike the panther, the trout understands what is required of a king? Ethering would've been even harsher.
The illuminati is just...odd, tho. Kidnapping terrax, putting thanos in the same room as the other two, not throwing that popsicle into another dimension once they noticed corvus growing inside it... it's just... dumb.
Obv the continued existence bit wont mean a whole lot given the cabal, but still, at the time.
It goes along with the theme of the responsibility and unique morality of kings. They've placed themselves above all other men and their actions are beyond questioning. The Illuminati operate under the assumption that because they're the smartest men in the room (born better as Doom says) all of their choices must obviously be correct, never to be doubted until it blows up in their face. They thought they could control Maximus. They thought they could make use of Black Swan and alternate Terrax. They thought they could forever contain Thanos.
Also, what if the Illuminati are on the run not because they blew up a world, but because the world found out they decided solely amongst themselves that it would be better for everything to die then tell the world the truth or do the hard thing?
So, I'm going to get Marvel Unlimited just for this. Should I just read the Reading List in the OP or the reading list below?
Will I miss anything if I just read the list in the OP?
Will I miss anything if I just read the list in the OP?
Memento Mori
Member
I'd recommend reading Hickman's Fantastic Four run first.
Dark Reign: Fantastic Four #1-5
Fantastic Four #570-588
FF #1-11
Fantastic Four #600-605
FF #12-16
Fantastic Four #605.1, 606-611
FF #17-23
But Hickman's incursion story is contained across Avengers, New Avengers and Infinity.
Dark Reign: Fantastic Four #1-5
Fantastic Four #570-588
FF #1-11
Fantastic Four #600-605
FF #12-16
Fantastic Four #605.1, 606-611
FF #17-23
But Hickman's incursion story is contained across Avengers, New Avengers and Infinity.
Wait, what? Is that Superman? Why is he there?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
It was a very blatant Superman analogue, along with the rest of the justice league. If I recall someone in the comics thread recolored him to look like superman
Doc Strange killed them all
Magic > Superman confirmed.
Plus Doc Strange > Doc Fate confirmed. So much ether.
RockTurtle
Member
so now we know what would happen if capcom made a marvel vs DC game?
Yep, Doc Strange would rape everyone.
it would be a might brighter crossover. jla/avengers style. not like this
Seems to be a reccurring topic right now in the Marvel universe
losing stuff I meanNapoleonthechimp
Member
Why does Strange have no soul anyway? I'm not familiar enough with the character to know what he's been up to over the years.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Not with the slow ass normals he had in MvC3. Lol
RockTurtle
Member
Maybe ironman can put his "engineer supreme" title to work.
an engineer is sort of an architect. and the big bads are "builders"
an engineer is sort of an architect. and the big bads are "builders"