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June Wrasslin' |OT-2| Money In The Bank, None In The Stock

S

Sblargh

Banned
gurudyne said:
Come on now. There's a qualitative difference between a character playing their character to get a reaction from the crowd and a character breaking character to awkwardly tell an audience "Hey, cheer me!" If there wasn't, we'd have no need for writers as everyone could just go out and say "I'm the good/bad guy, cheer/boo me!"
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The qualitative difference is that both Stone Cold and The Rock were gods on the mic. I don't think Bryan broke character when he started pandering; the whole angle just worked (and up to WM it did work) because there was a legit belief that the crowd hijacking shows made him champion. He actually did become the people's champion in a very real way.

I remember Kevin Von Erich on the documentary about WCCW saying "I would rather die than let you people down". You don't get any more pandering than that. I don't think it is about the content of the promos; but rather a mix of mic skills and how much the audience believe you are being honest. If someone you like say "I am doing this for you"; you'll be happy. There's no reason not to.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
gurudyne said:
Come on now. There's a qualitative difference between a character playing their character to get a reaction from the crowd and a character breaking character to awkwardly tell an audience "Hey, cheer me!" If there wasn't, we'd have no need for writers as everyone could just go out and say "I'm the good/bad guy, cheer/boo me!"
Click to expand...

Who breaks character? Cena breaks character to say he does it for the people when his character is...he does what he does for the people and little Jimmies? Bryan's whole character for the past year is that fans love him, so he works harder because of what they've done for him.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Fellas, I thought Bull Dempsey was going to be our new Barry Horowitz. I was marveling at how it seemed NXT had finally given someone a well-known jobber gimmick and story. Then halfway through the match I realized they weren't joking.
 
S

Sblargh

Banned
Titus Andronicus said:
Would not be surprised if Triple H is going to hold back talent until he gains more control of the main show. I don't even know if it's up to him who gets called up but I figure he's probably pissed that his NXT call ups are getting shafted, shitty gimmicks or not.
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But then Dragonzord makes a good point; there's no Kevin Dunn or Vince to blame on a shitty NXT gimmick. I still find it weird this thing of "if it is good, then Triple H; if it is bad, then Vince"
 
I

Ithil

Member
NXT has had plenty of bad gimmicks, the difference being that the show actually did something about them (turning Bo heel and using what he was shit at to make a comedy heel, turning CJ Parker heel because he was getting booed, etc). Now, Becky's debut was actually super over with the crowd, but I would not be surprised if the gimmick was toned down, quickly.
 
V

Vylash

Member
jbm8PTw1Tx5m71.jpg
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G

gurudyne

Member
Titus Andronicus said:
Would not be surprised if Triple H is going to hold back talent until he gains more control of the main show. I don't even know if it's up to him who gets called up but I figure he's probably pissed that his NXT call ups are getting shafted, shitty gimmicks or not.
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Can't be helping his reputation as an exec at all. There were rumors a while back about some conflict between him and Dunn backstage a few weeks back related to this, not sure I put much stock in it though.

Sblargh said:
Seeing people here reacting to Becky Lynch gimmick should be a clue that NXT gimmicks doesn't get an instant approval despiste of what people say. The same goes for Mojo Rawley or The Ascension. I like NXT gimmicks more than I like the main roster usual gimmicks; it doesn't mean I buy them wholesale.
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True. Angelo Dawkins has changed gimmicks a few times, people despised hippie CJ Parker throughout his whole face run (opinion's still out on his heel run because he never wrestles), Sylvester LeFleur, the cheesy redneck-managing French manager, was met with apathy most of the time he showed up. Mojo's an inversion because from what I remember, people liked him at the outset, but turned on him hard after a few weeks of the same ass-based moves for each match.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Ithil said:
NXT has had plenty of bad gimmicks, the difference being that the show actually did something about them (turning Bo heel and using what he was shit at to make a comedy heel, turning CJ Parker heel because he was getting booed, etc). Now, Becky's debut was actually super over with the crowd, but I would not be surprised if the gimmick was toned down, quickly.
Click to expand...

This. When something doesn't work in NXT, it gets changed. When something doesn't work on WWE TV, most times it's either ignored or they dig their heels in and keep pushing.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
Sblargh said:
But then Dragonzord makes a good point; there's no Kevin Dunn or Vince to blame on a shitty NXT gimmick. I still find it weird this thing of "if it is good, then Triple H; if it is bad, then Vince"
Click to expand...

If they've got any brains they'll give Devitt as much creative input as possible in his gimmick, he's proven in the last 2 years with his heel turn that he can create something good.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Ithil said:
NXT has had plenty of bad gimmicks, the difference being that the show actually did something about them (turning Bo heel and using what he was shit at to make a comedy heel, turning CJ Parker heel because he was getting booed, etc). Now, Becky's debut was actually super over with the crowd, but I would not be surprised if the gimmick was toned down, quickly.
Click to expand...
People were happy to see her debut, the "gimmick" if it could even be called that was not over.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
gurudyne said:
Can't be helping his reputation as an exec at all. There were rumors a while back about some conflict between him and Dunn backstage a few weeks back related to this, not sure I put much stock in it though.
Click to expand...

His rep as an exec is just fine. The rift between he and Dunn is simple. Dunn has Vince's ear and tries to torpedo talent he doesn't like (such as Paige and Bo) when it isn't his job to do so. Dunn, and everyone in the company, knows that he is gone the minute Hunter and Steph have the authority to fire him.
 
S

somedevil

Member
Dragonzord said:
Where does it say this? Because everyone says Kong and Mistico were Triple H's signings, and they were both before Bernard. Or do we retroactively take everything bad away from Triple? Especially considering Bernard and Triple H went to the same wrestling school.
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The Undertaker, along with John Laurinaitis, helped get Lord Tensai rehired by WWE. Tensai, aka Matt Bloom, has reached out to the company several times over the years but nothing came of it until Creative came up with the idea of a henchman for Laurinaitis' onscreen character. Undertaker and Laurinaitis, both of whom are friends with Bloom, urged that he be rehired.
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Happy? So you can blame Undertaker as well.

Sblargh said:
But then Dragonzord makes a good point; there's no Kevin Dunn or Vince to blame on a shitty NXT gimmick. I still find it weird this thing of "if it is good, then Triple H; if it is bad, then Vince"
Click to expand...

You know NXT is developmental so if a gimmick doesn't work they change it? Bo Dallas didn't work they changed it, Adam Rose was a change as well.
 
S

Sblargh

Banned
I think the mistake they did with Adam Rose was not letting the gimmick actually test on NXT. It's an audience that, in general, have good reactions to any debut, but they turn on people pretty quickly, too. It's almost as if people watching that show is happy to be there or something and so are more prone to be hyped by a debut.
A few more months in NXT and they could have tuned Adam Rose's gimmick into something better.

Tho I like him

I know the guy is on developmental for a long time, but I found it super weird, how he debuted the gimmick and got called up almost instantly.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Sblargh said:
I think the mistake they did with Adam Rose was not letting the gimmick actually test on NXT. It's an audience that, in general, have good reactions to any debut, but they turn on people pretty quickly, too. It's almost as if people watching that show is happy to be there or something and so are more prone to be hyped by a debut.
A few more months in NXT and they could have tuned Adam Rose's gimmick into something better.

Tho I like him

I know the guy is on developmental for a long time, but I found it super weird, how he debuted the gimmick and got called up almost instantly.
Click to expand...
The person behind it had already long worn out his welcome. There wasn't anything new for him to show us. He had to get called up before that gimmick wore out its welcome too. Unfortunately they don't appear to have any plan at all for how to grow him on the main roster.
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
Heel said:
You have to commend BIONIC for enduring day after day of samey, negative posts directed at the surefire, first ballot hall-of-fame wrestler that he enjoys. It says a lot about his character.

In the spirit of positivity, how about everyone post something they enjoy about John Cena?
Click to expand...

I like the John Cena experience thing that's on the network. I like the fact that he works hard on the charities that he's apart of. And his theme is nice too.
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
Edge was always fun to watch. He was honestly one of the few people I cared to see on Smackdown during that 07/8 run. They did do the Edge/Vickie thing for too long tho.

I might have shit taste, fellas
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
The mention of joke characters made me go back and watch that Santino chamber match from a few years ago. Man, that crowd was so behind him. They were into everything he was doing. They would have went nuts had he won, but it's good they didn't have him do that.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
strobogo said:
If you had been around for it, you wouldn't miss it. It got TERRIBLE about a year into it, especially when he became the anchor of Smackdown and all the shit with Vickie.
Click to expand...
I'm way into how WWE redoes so much of their history as memorable or interesting when it wasn't at all. Vickie and Edge are both great at their roles, but that whole angle went on forever and was mostly the same old shit. It didn't help that everything around them on Smackdown was shit.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
The only really good thing that ever came out of Edge and Vickie was the Edge/Undertaker feud. All those matches were great, especially the WM one.
 
J

Jimmy King

Member
strobogo said:
If you had been around for it, you wouldn't miss it. It got TERRIBLE about a year into it, especially when he became the anchor of Smackdown and all the shit with Vickie.
Click to expand...

I always get worked by these WWE produced specials that condense years of angles into only the best highlights.

What was the general consensus on Edge as a wrestler though? Keep in mind before anyone answers that John Cena has called him the Einstein of Professional Wrestling.
 
S

Sblargh

Banned
I can't hate on Adam Rose, really, but I'll recognize this says more about me than him. Maybe the same with Emma and Bayley.

It's cute, it's colorful, it's not mean or spiteful. It's like, the opposite of Ziggler or anyone else complaining either on twitter or on camera about not having a push, you know? Even when they have my sympathy, they bring the mood down. Gimmicky characters on the other hand, even when they are not laugh out loud fun they lighten up the mood. You can't have the serious without having something you can just sit back and relax.
 
G

gurudyne

Member
Sblargh said:
The qualitative difference is that both Stone Cold and The Rock were gods on the mic. I don't think Bryan broke character when he started pandering; the whole angle just worked (and up to WM it did work) because there was a legit belief that the crowd hijacking shows made him champion. He actually did become the people's champion in a very real way.

I remember Kevin Von Erich on the documentary about WCCW saying "I would rather die than let you people down". You don't get any more pandering than that. I don't think it is about the content of the promos; but rather a mix of mic skills and how much the audience believe you are being honest. If someone you like say "I am doing this for you"; you'll be happy. There's no reason not to.
Click to expand...

I'm mainly attacking ADR when I bring up breaking character because WWE's turned main event level face turns into such a cookie-cutter thing. ADR had no reason to start thanking fans when he turned--he just did it one day and then had nothing else to say. "I did it for you!" They eventually turned it into "I want to be a good role model for the Latino fans!" but it was still thanking people for cheering and little else. That led into the Swagger feud, but it wasn't well done and people didn't care. The groundwork was missing.

strobogo said:
Who breaks character? Cena breaks character to say he does it for the people when his character is...he does what he does for the people and little Jimmies? Bryan's whole character for the past year is that fans love him, so he works harder because of what they've done for him.
Click to expand...

Again, it's ADR mainly. Sheamus does it too from time to time, but I can't tell if it's in character because the man lacks focus and direction. Punk did it too and he was good on the mic, but even he had trouble slipping in praise for the fans without sounding disingenuous. Still, he had a unique relationship with the crowd (MitB 2011, etc.) which helped iron out the wrinkles. Cena's character is that he's a pandering ball of patriotism and jorts so it doesn't break character when he addresses the fans. It's still annoying but for different reasons. Bryan's pandering works on some levels because the fans played a role in his story. Doesn't stop the character switch from "ass kicking fan favorite" to "rarely angry man who thanks crowds a lot" last August from being abrupt or drawing attention to the show's writing.

All I'm saying is integrate the pandering into the characters better. Hulk was loyal to the Hulkamaniacs. Foley went for cheap pops because as babyface Mankind/Mick Foley he was a good-natured child at heart. SCSA was a walking lower-middle-class power fantasy so his pandering was threatening the boss with physical violence and drinking beer while asking for audience participation ("Gimme a hell yeah!") The Rock's move from self-appointed blowhard to legit fan favorite gave him ample opportunity to address/praise the fans.
 
D

Dr Duncan Steel

Member
Sblargh said:
I can't hate on Adam Rose, really, but I'll recognize this says more about me than him. Maybe the same with Emma and Bayley.

It's cute, it's colorful, it's not mean or spiteful. It's like, the opposite of Ziggler or anyone else complaining either on twitter or on camera about not having a push, you know? Even when they have my sympathy, they bring the mood down. Gimmicky characters on the other hand, even when they are not laugh out loud fun they lighten up the mood. You can't have the serious without having something you can just sit back and relax.
Click to expand...

Rose' showing at Takeover was absolutely the best way to display him. Made him look like a legit entertainer.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
My prediction is Prince Devitt's WWE gimmick will be based on Bono.

They already have the drunk street fighter gimmick, leprechaun gimmick and girl who Irish dances gimmicks taken so I think they only other Irish thing Vince probably knows of is U2.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
serenewarfare said:
They've totally stereotyped that Adrian Neville haven't they? Oh wait, they haven't. And they won't do it to Devitt either.
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I dunno he did that promo where he said he was a Hobbit. Thank god that didn't happen on Raw or we'd be closing the casket right now on his career.

I hate his grey trunks. They look so fucking filthy and stinky. And grey is my favorite color!
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Mr. Luchador said:
Why?
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Same reason it was bad for TNA to put the title on EY when they did. There was no buildup and he had been a joke character for too long to take seriously as a world champion. It was fun to have him make a good run at it, but having him win the belt would have been a mistake.

Vince McMahon said:
I dunno he did that promo where he said he was a Hobbit. Thank god that didn't happen on Raw or we'd be closing the casket right now on his career.

I hate his grey trunks. They look so fucking filthy and stinky. And grey is my favorite color!
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To be fair, that was his own line and was more of a "you may say these things, but it doesn't matter" type of promo. More decrying the Hobbit concept than making it his gimmick.
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
serenewarfare said:
Same reason it was bad for TNA to put the title on EY when they did. There was no buildup and he had been a joke character for too long to take seriously as a world champion. It was fun to have him make a good run at it, but having him win the belt would have been a mistake.
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I don't know, the EY thing just felt like them copying WWE and I'm sure Santino had had a few good weeks/months before that. Wasn't he final 4 at Rumble that year too?
 
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