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Jurassic GAF |OT| The Park is closed, the World is open
- Thread starter brandonh83
- Start date
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, it is pretty unreasonable to expect dinosaurs in Jurassic Park.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
There's like 20 things I want to reply to but I'm hungry and need more coffee. I'll be back.
This is flimsy at best.
This is flimsy at best.
The silliness of the passive aggressiveness in this answer is exactly what I meant in my arguments.
But I think I've made my point so I won't go on about it.
Yes, I know this is a passive aggressive answer. My apologies.
Book gives a good enough explanation.
Green Mamba
Member
Movie used the same explanation, yet it would have also been a perfect explanation to use to update the animals to show audiences something new, but instead used it to keep the raptors as the same fat faced iguanas they've always been. So I am not one to congratulate filmmakers for taking the easiest, safest avenue possible, especially when said filmmakers are supposedly making a movie about the dangers of the very same cynicism of show business!
But making the animals look like they actually were would go completely against that point?
Of course, everyone knows the most important reason they look like they do because of the franchise and marketing. But being able to point that out doesn't make the movie bad. The bad characters, sure, but adding feathers to it wouldn't have changed anything, apart from making it feel even less like a JP movie. It wouldn't suddenly be the educational experience you seem to be hunkering for, just like the originals weren't. And at least this keeps the universe of the movies internally consistent, which in the end seems more important to me. There is plenty JW did wrong, but picking apart details like that would mean the first JP movie made all the same kinds of mistakes, just regarding different details.
This is such a weird conversation.
I mean, I get it, getting completely different, more accurate dinosaurs in a movie like this would be fun. But we all know that's not how Hollywood works, and the exact same screenplay with other dino's wouldn't have changed anything regarding quality. In the end it's a Jurassic Park movie, and I don't think you can blame the creators for actually making a JP-movie - especially given that the original designs are so iconic. You would think that, after all this time, the anger for that fact that you didn't get different dinosaurs in a silly action movie would have subsided a little bit. It would be like endlessly complaining that the science of the new Star Wars movie didn't make sense - it was never the point of the franchise, and the important points to hit to make it a good movie are elsewhere.
Green Mamba
Member
The original Jurassic Park was actually a pretty big paradigm shift in the way the average movie depicted dinosaurs, so I'll give JP the nod for actually trying at some level. No, of course it wasn't perfect by any means, but the depictions were pretty damn progressive for their time. And, ultimately, better depictions of the dinosaurs would give JW something for me to like, because as it stands it's just a really dumb movie with dumb characters with the added benefit of dinosaurs that are intentionally outdated and hideous.
We all have our own priorities, we can judge the film on our own merits, and JW fails at even being a dinosaur movie as far as I'm concerned, never mind its status as a good film period.
EDIT: Comparisons to Star Wars are completely off base, as Star Wars is complete fantasy, and part of what the original appeal of Jurassic Park is how real it was intended to feel.
We all have our own priorities, we can judge the film on our own merits, and JW fails at even being a dinosaur movie as far as I'm concerned, never mind its status as a good film period.
EDIT: Comparisons to Star Wars are completely off base, as Star Wars is complete fantasy, and part of what the original appeal of Jurassic Park is how real it was intended to feel.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's just a movie, dude.
There is 100% no reason for this amount of anger, especially towards the random denizens of the internet that liked it.
Don't go the "I have friends just let me talk to them" route.
I've seen Jurassic Park 100 times. I understand JW is the worse movie, but I still think it was good. I still cried at the end.
Don't make some stupid internet dispute your hill to die on.
This is what concerns me with the whole heavy hint dropping of the dinohybrid stuff. That takes the franchise pretty clearly out of the more grounded adventure category into straight sci-fi.
I don't really think "this dinosaur wasn't that large/had feathers" is any real issue with how "real" it's supposed to feel though.
brandonh83
Banned
I'm not really sure what you expect at this point.
I started to look at the previous page in the thread, saw some of the posts and just nope'd the fuck away.
But you guys have fun.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Trevorrow on Bayona and JW2:
"We're moving it into new territory. J.A. Bayona is an incredible director and I know he'll push the boundaries of what a 'Jurassic' movie is. I think it's important that we take risks. A franchise must evolve or perish."
"We're moving it into new territory. J.A. Bayona is an incredible director and I know he'll push the boundaries of what a 'Jurassic' movie is. I think it's important that we take risks. A franchise must evolve or perish."
Jawmuncher
Member
Jurassic Park about to become Resident Evil, and i'm not talking about Dino Crisis.
Nah I don't think they'd go that crazy but no one having a clue where the series could go next is pretty exciting.
Right now the only hints we have is military application and other companies making dinosaurs as well.
Though I guess the issue is how is all of that going to work timeline wise. They can't really do the realistic timeline with that route.
Unless they throw in a example as to why cloning is getting faster. Having Numerous big new dinosaurs in the span of 3-4 years would be hard to sell.
Though the general audiences wouldn't really care I guess.
I do think a big part going forward will be hybrids though. I see them continuing the trend of having the hybrids as the "monsters" with the regular dinosaurs being just animals.
brandonh83
Banned
Agreed. Thank god for their mindset. World already took some risks to the point where people were writing its ideas off when the leaks hit; the hoopla over the hybrid for example which turned out to be very cool.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
I'm excited - evolution is certainly needed from a narrative perspective - but I do hope that evolution further embraces what makes Jurassic Park special rather than disregards.
brandonh83
Banned
Can be a little bit of both.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Why would disregarding what makes Jurassic Park special be a good evolution though?
I simply mean, I hope the film doesn't dive further into monster movie territory. The dinosaurs of JP are so special not only because of the groundbreaking effects, but also because they seemed like animals. There aren't any other dino-flicks that do this, and quite honestly each time they steer away from that the films suffer.
Strangely, I thought the Indominus Rex worked though - perhaps its look and movements simply felt real and sold it as an animal though.
TrAcEr_x90
Member
Going to Kaui, this summer in June. Only thing I can think about is hopping on the helicopter ride that takes you in the area where Jurassic Park was filmed!! Gonna for sure record footage and then put the JP theme on it!
brandonh83
Banned
I meant it can evolve while retaining what we like about the series. I would argue that Jurassic World already did this.
Jawmuncher
Member
Im in the camp that wouldn't mind it being a monster movie. Since carnivores are what i'm in for. True carnivores don't go around killing everything, but Irex already showed how perhaps through cloning and raising that could happen. My biggest thing is I just don't want them to go away from "dinosaurs" (I know pterodactyls and such aren't dinosaurs). Like I wouldn't want to see a movie where they're in antartica and just dealing with Ice Age mammals.
Not as a mainline thing anyway.
If I ever go to hawaii I want to do the same thing.
Not as a mainline thing anyway.
If I ever go to hawaii I want to do the same thing.
brandonh83
Banned
The dinosaurs can be good and it have a monster movie feel. The original feels like a monster movie to me. When you have a setpiece involving kids in an overturned jeep with a huge T-Rex looming about and Grant repelling down the side of a barrier as the Rex pushes the jeep over with a kid inside into a tree canopy, you're already pretty over the top IMO.
I don't think being a "monster movie" makes the dinosaurs seem less "special." It's just how its handled and Jurassic Park will always be a monster movie series and not a scientifically-oriented documentary. They can have debates and toss around scientific jargon all they want, but they're still monster movies.
I don't think being a "monster movie" makes the dinosaurs seem less "special." It's just how its handled and Jurassic Park will always be a monster movie series and not a scientifically-oriented documentary. They can have debates and toss around scientific jargon all they want, but they're still monster movies.
Jawmuncher
Member
Yeah if anything I think it's just a case of showing different shades to it all. Which the films have always done. You have moments where the dinosaurs are just being animals. But if an animal gets hungry or agitated there's gonna be trouble.
brandonh83
Banned
I get what he's saying, I mean I'm not oblivious to his point-- I just think it's always been a monster movie franchise and I'm not excluding the original. You can have well done dinosaurs, but now we're at the point where info has changed and dinosaurs were different than they were portrayed in the original. So now, no matter what they do, if they don't alter them based on updated scientific facts, people are still going to complain that it's not accurate and thus, still just a "monster movie."
They would have to tone down the action, horror elements, and make the dinosaurs scientifically accurate in order for it to not come across as a monster movie, and that is simply not going to happen. I believe in a happy medium; I'm okay with that feel but I do want really well done dinosaurs. But again, to a lot of people, a dinosaur isn't going to feel well done to them if they're not updated to reflect what we know about them now.
Jawmuncher
Member
Yeah that's always going to be a bit of a pickle for the series now. It has it's own roots now, and while I understand why people want the future movies to completely follow the most recent scientific findings, that's going to be hard for a franchise that has already established so much. The cloning card really does let them get away with a bit though. If anything I see them slowly introducing the newer discoveries. There was talks about new companies perhaps one of them is all about scientifically accurate portrayals and such. JP1 did a lot for dinosaurs, and to me so long as the movies can get people interested and look into things themselves I don't see the problem for them not to be entirely correct with what we know.
Anton Sugar
Member
I would be more than okay with this.
Me, too. That would be neat.
Don't think I could handle her adorabless.
Jawmuncher
Member
I just want more of ingen shooting up dinosaurs. So I'm hoping we get a female Mercs main character.
brandonh83
Banned
I see what Jaw's playing at here. He only liked JW because that one scene sorta gave him Dino Crisis vibes.
which I totally understand
Watched JW on HBO Go last night for the first time. I thought it was a decently fun romp but no where near as good as JP1. The ridiculous level of incompetence of so many of the characters in charge of the park made it hard to take anything seriously. So much stupidity all around.
Decent monster flick though.
Decent monster flick though.
Jawmuncher
Member
Pretty much .
It's always been the Dino action I was in for, even as a kid. So I'm hoping they don't drop those sort of idea. The majority of people agree the last 15 minutes were absolutely amazing.
Anyway with that said I think a female "villain" for JW2 would be cool as well. We haven't had that yet. Also I'm hoping Claire took some classes with Owen or something.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Dear God, no more mercenary InGen. That was so stupid and made no sense.
WHY DOES A BIOTECH FIRM HAVE A LITERAL PMC
What is this, Resident Evil?
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Basically, after JP failed it seems InGen branched off into private military to stay afloat.
BUT yeah I agree, enough of the merc/military stuff being the main angle. It's fine if InGen has some show of force and security, but that's not what I want the franchise to be about.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I mean, I know there's a canon explanation for it.
It's just stupid, stupid canon that still makes no sense... >.<
Demoncarnotaur
Member
My guess is that direction was chosen due to InGen's unique show of force in TLW
But the issue is, it made sense in that movie and felt less like a stereotypical privatized military gig. Plus all the gear and vehicles were way cooler.
But anyways, if InGen goes back to that TLW look and feel I'd be fine with things. They've got their shit together, kinda, but aren't pushing raptors over drone warfare and all that.
brandonh83
Banned
Military Ingen is awesome.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
My guess is that direction was chosen due to InGen's unique show of force in TLW
But the issue is, it made sense in that movie and felt less like a stereotypical privatized military gig. Plus all the gear and vehicles were way cooler.
But anyways, if InGen goes back to that TLW look and feel I'd be fine with things. They've got their shit together, kinda, but aren't pushing raptors over drone warfare and all that.
I expected someone to mention Lost World. The only thing is, funding the gear and crew needed to collect a bunch of dinosaurs on a single expedition is a massive, massive leap from literally becoming Blackwater.
The thing is, they already have a logical extension with the ACU anyway. That at least makes sense and has a good reason to exist. But when Hoskins comes in with stereotypical Blackwater types (I cringed with that scene where they gleefully blow
Jawmuncher
Member
I've said before id like to see at least one movie basically be Aliens but with dinosaurs.
Though I know the worry would be that they do it once, and then they'd never go back for some.
Cant really agree to any of this. The PMC element makes sense to me. They were there as a back up to ACU and to sneak in their own goals. Ingen has basically always been the bad guy, so they should have "bad guys" working for them. Stuff like shooting the Don while riding in the helicopter cemented that.
I dunno what people want if they don't want to see PMC vs Dinosaurs. I get there's a lot they could do but I don't see how that idea is instantly bad.
Though I know the worry would be that they do it once, and then they'd never go back for some.
Cant really agree to any of this. The PMC element makes sense to me. They were there as a back up to ACU and to sneak in their own goals. Ingen has basically always been the bad guy, so they should have "bad guys" working for them. Stuff like shooting the Don while riding in the helicopter cemented that.
I dunno what people want if they don't want to see PMC vs Dinosaurs. I get there's a lot they could do but I don't see how that idea is instantly bad.
That was the raptorcycle-squad scene in JW. An entire movie like that would be pretty cool.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Why would they have an entirely different force as back up and not just, ya know, more ACU/general security? And expanding on the backstory (even if it isn't explicitly detailed on film), again, why would a biotech firm also be a global PMC? It makes no sense.
And yeah, I get the InGen is the "bad guy". But going from scientists, board room suits, and a theatrical showman making some bad choices to literally having a squad of dudebro jacked up Blackwater bros cackling at dino kills is just so fucking cheesey, stupid, and diametrically opposed to what Jurassic Park is. But apparently people just want to use Jurassic Park to fulfill every dinosaur fantasy they've ever had, from Avengers with raptors to Megashark vs Giant Octopus on Isla Nublar, so I guess whatever.
As for the most basic root of the idea of "PMC vs dinosaurs", since that's so vague there's definitely some possibilities that aren't dumb, but what we've gotten so far? Ew.
... anyway...
This is a few days old, but I figured I would share it here anyway:
Dude made a mini slice of Jurassic Park for his tortoise. Pretty legit, lol.
Jawmuncher
Member
I dunno I still don't see it as a issue. I guess we would need to know more of how the structure works. I get what you mean though. Why wasn't there just more ACU on the island to handle any problems.
It would actually be pretty interesting to see a bit more of the corporate workings. Aside from that I think the series has a lot of room to expand without dropping what people feel it is.
It would actually be pretty interesting to see a bit more of the corporate workings. Aside from that I think the series has a lot of room to expand without dropping what people feel it is.
aygomyownroad
Member
I recently watched Jurassic World...
There were more Mercedes Benz than dinosaurs. The product placement was right in your face, be it long shots of them driving or the vehicle pulling up towards the camera with the Marc badge in full view.
I loved the first Jurassic Park, Lost world was enjoyable and I thought the third one is very under rated. I don't get the hate for it.
However Jurassic World has many faults, I want to moan about near the end. One minute everyone on the island in stuck in the welcome centre. Next minute its empty, there was no showing how they were taken off the island and if there were any casualties.
There were certain aspects that were shoehorned in to make more appealing characters. We didn't need any of that in the first one, but for instance:
The brothers for a quick scene the small one burst in to tears as his parents were getting divorced. It popped up and was dropped like a stone, like it was trying to make you feel sorry for them.
And then there was one character that I liked but I expected more. It was the guy in the control room from The New Girl... After the bad ass "hold on to your butts" of Samuel L Jackson we got this nervous guy, when he was asked to open paddock 9, he was apprehensive and just didn't make the scene as bad ass as it could have been. It was screaming for a "hold on to your butts" moment but it never arrived.
I could go on and moan about the dinosaurs etc but It was a great film overall and it was great to watch and despite it's flaws everything clicked. It wasnt as good as JP, but it is a great return to the Jurassic Universe, I don't see where we can go from here film wise and not tread on very old ground...
There were more Mercedes Benz than dinosaurs. The product placement was right in your face, be it long shots of them driving or the vehicle pulling up towards the camera with the Marc badge in full view.
I loved the first Jurassic Park, Lost world was enjoyable and I thought the third one is very under rated. I don't get the hate for it.
However Jurassic World has many faults, I want to moan about near the end. One minute everyone on the island in stuck in the welcome centre. Next minute its empty, there was no showing how they were taken off the island and if there were any casualties.
There were certain aspects that were shoehorned in to make more appealing characters. We didn't need any of that in the first one, but for instance:
The brothers for a quick scene the small one burst in to tears as his parents were getting divorced. It popped up and was dropped like a stone, like it was trying to make you feel sorry for them.
And then there was one character that I liked but I expected more. It was the guy in the control room from The New Girl... After the bad ass "hold on to your butts" of Samuel L Jackson we got this nervous guy, when he was asked to open paddock 9, he was apprehensive and just didn't make the scene as bad ass as it could have been. It was screaming for a "hold on to your butts" moment but it never arrived.
I could go on and moan about the dinosaurs etc but It was a great film overall and it was great to watch and despite it's flaws everything clicked. It wasnt as good as JP, but it is a great return to the Jurassic Universe, I don't see where we can go from here film wise and not tread on very old ground...
Just watched the film. Loved all the little reference to the original film, some takes are so similar to JP.
I thought the pace was a bit weird and they could have expanded more on some characters.
Hate that the Asian biologist was the bad guy, I always loved when he came up on JP.
I thought the pace was a bit weird and they could have expanded more on some characters.
Hate that the Asian biologist was the bad guy, I always loved when he came up on JP.
Jawmuncher
Member
I don't think he's bad, at least not in the typical sense. He's just following his passion while not heeding Ian Malcolm's advice. So preoccupied with if he could, that he doesn't stop to think if he should. I wouldn't be surprised if in 2 we see him again and the other companies making all sorts of crazy shit makes the realization sit in.
