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[brandonh83]

wat.

This series is not the "Trials and Tribulations of Alan Grant and Ian Malcolm." Both times they've had these guys come back from sequels it felt so incredibly forced. Ian's character almost completely changed in the second one. It's not a story about those characters, they've already been in enough trouble as it is and they need to let the new characters flourish without any of the "old gang" poking in. It's just never been a character-centric set of movies to me. It's not like Star Wars or something like that.

I wouldn't mind certain appearances I guess, but I don't sit around praying that Ian Malcolm comes back.

 

[Boem]

I'm hoping they'll go for the dinosaur version of those rich jerks keeping lions and tigers as pets:

Could be a funny little consumerist commentary while at the same time setting the table for a jackass getting a deserved death scene.

Trevorrow, if you're reading this, I'll take my payment in cash. And one of those old school yellow JP helmets.

 

[ZeoVGM]

This series is not the "Trials and Tribulations of Alan Grant and Ian Malcolm." Both times they've had these guys come back from sequels it felt so incredibly forced. Ian's character almost completely changed in the second one. It's not a story about those characters, they've already been in enough trouble as it is and they need to let the new characters flourish without any of the "old gang" poking in. It's just never been a character-centric set of movies to me. It's not like Star Wars or something like that.

I wouldn't mind certain appearances I guess, but I don't sit around praying that Ian Malcolm comes back.

Oh yeah, I couldn't disagree more. The characters in JW are fine but they don't hold a candle to the original movie.

Mixing the two generations together could be something special.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Identifying Jurassic World posters

Yep it's a Jurassic World poster

 

[brandonh83]

Oh yeah, I couldn't disagree more. The characters in JW are fine but they don't hold a candle to the original movie.

I just think it needs to stand on its own. Not thinking the new characters were as good is fine, but like you said, they were still fine and the next one will obviously have new characters surrounding them. I grew up with those characters too, but I never actually thought they were great characters or that there was much to them. Like, Ian's... funny/sarcastic, okay. Grant is... an old dude now that warmed up to kids at one point in his life I guess?

I dunno. I like them but not really enough for me to hope they come back. I say focus on the new stuff. I'd much rather have Lowery come back.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Ted Levine... god help those dinosaurs

 

[Boem]

I just think it needs to stand on its own. Not thinking the new characters were as good is fine, but like you said, they were still fine and the next one will obviously have new characters surrounding them. I grew up with those characters too, but I never actually thought they were great characters or that there was much to them. Like, Ian's... funny/sarcastic, okay. Grant is... an old dude now that warmed up to kids at one point in his life I guess?

I dunno. I like them but not really enough for me to hope they come back.

I may or may not have a high quality print of that Jeff Goldblum lying down in a field in his bare chest with a butterfly at his fingertip-painting hanging in my bathroom.

So I guess I'm a bit more enthusiastic about the character than you are.

Which is absolutely fine of course. But yeah, the characters of the original movie really did make an impression on me as a kid. A large part of why I like that movie so much. But I also agree that their later appearances in the sequels didn't measure up at all.

 

[brandonh83]

I may or may not have a high quality print of that Jeff Goldblum lying down in a field in his bare chest with a butterfly at his fingertip-painting hanging in my bathroom.

Haha, I liked Ian in the first one. Second time just didn't do it for me. All I can see in my head when I think about him coming back is just more of the same uh uh well this is uh bad I'm warning you don't uh do it and then see I told you told you right away nobody listens!

Like some kind of appearance might be fine. But I don't want them to bring back someone just to satiate everyone's childhood memories. I thought it was cool and organic to bring Wu back, that worked.

 

[Boem]

Haha, I liked Ian in the first one. Second time just didn't do it for me. All I can see in my head when I think about him coming back is just more of the same uh uh well this is uh bad I'm warning you don't uh do it and then see I told you told you right away nobody listens!

Heh, that's pretty much what I see in my head as well. The difference is that that's actually something that would make me kinda happy.

Hey, I'm not saying I have good taste when it comes to these things.

 

[brandonh83]

Hey, I'm not saying I have good taste when it comes to these things.

Eh nothing to do with taste. It's something you want to see, something I don't really. I'm not a very cynical person and Ian is human cynicism-- and I thought Lowery sort of filled that position well enough in the first one. There will likely be characters in this next one that don't agree with anything going on, hell it's pretty much gonna be the story as its partially about animal rights.

Now watch them bring back Ian and me like it because it'd probably be handled much better than his inclusion in Lost World. I'd eat some Malcolm crow.

...not to be confused with Malcolm Crowe.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I may or may not have a high quality print of that Jeff Goldblum lying down in a field in his bare chest with a butterfly at his fingertip-painting hanging in my bathroom.

That's my Facebook cover photo every few months.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Should introduce a smaller/medium sized dino for a change, like the Carnotaurus from TLW novel.

TLW-style Carno would be amazing, but I. rex kind of fucked up the impact.

I always wanted to see them do Baryonyx. It was mentioned in JP3 and it was a species included in Jurassic World.

I'd be down.

Bigger than a raptor but much smaller than a T-Rex. I think it'd be unique.

I think there'll be a "feature" dinosaur, like T-Rex, Spino and Indominus. It may not be bigger or "have more teeth" but there could be something else to it, like how the Indominus could camo (which I wish were used more in the first one). But yeah they always gotta hype up some attention grabbing new thing that we haven't seen before. Which I'm okay with, it's a trope.

Regardless of the direction, there'll be the highlight dinosaur; whether it's some hybrid or pre-existing one we haven't seen yet, who knows.

^^Baryonyx would be super sweet to see for sure, I actually like the design in that render

I mean yeah, there will be a new feature Dino, but not something in the progression of 1 Rex -> 2 Rex -> Spino -> I. rex. Not one purpose built to top the last, I mean. Of course there will be something "new".

Nah, the core Avengers cast will get the standard amount of screen time.

When that "60+ characters" idea was thrown out, it doesn't mean you're going to see a lot of them. Many of those characters are going to end up being cameos or in smaller parts.

I know, but even then with 50 other characters some minutes are going to be shaved off the core cast. The Thanos part is more my main point though - this is going to be a Thanos movie as Dark Knight was more a Joker movie, so that's going to cut down on hero time. And having so many minor characters is going to have an impact as well. Plus, this is the first time every lead is in together.

Whatever they do I just hope the raptors continue being badass and one of the highlights. Just gotta have those raptors. I don't care the situation. Praying Blue comes back at least.

The Lost World is the least raptor the series will ever have. Rex may be the mascot but realistically raptors are the core of the series.

I hope we get a chance to bring back some of the novels' raptor scenes, by the way. Motorcycle chase is probably nixed by the Jurassic World version, but the massive raptor colony in the JP novel? Fucking perfect for this. Or the shitty raptor parenting from the Lost World novel.

I haven't really been following this, but has there been any word/rumor on other returning actors besides BD Wong? I mean, I can't imagine they can resist putting Jeff Goldblum in there at some point. I'm sure the guy is willing to show up, he still likes to talk about JP and he wasn't above doing the Independence Day sequel.

Up thread Demon Carnotaur posted a reasonable source of speculation for a Malcolm return. We'll see though.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

They've begun deconstructing one of the sets in Slough - all the flora was put on a truck and hauled out. Not sure what those orange and blue containers are, but it looks like they're marked with a JW logo.

These pictures aren't telling at all, but hey, it's something. Look at those big ass vines.

 

[nekkid]

This series is not the "Trials and Tribulations of Alan Grant and Ian Malcolm." Both times they've had these guys come back from sequels it felt so incredibly forced. Ian's character almost completely changed in the second one. It's not a story about those characters, they've already been in enough trouble as it is and they need to let the new characters flourish without any of the "old gang" poking in. It's just never been a character-centric set of movies to me. It's not like Star Wars or something like that.

I wouldn't mind certain appearances I guess, but I don't sit around praying that Ian Malcolm comes back.

Ian Malcom's appearance in TLW was hardly shoehorned, given the source material.

 

[bengraven]

I want smaller dinosaurs. Bigger than raptors but small enough to enter buildings.

 

[kswiston]

I want smaller dinosaurs. Bigger than raptors but small enough to enter buildings.

They should do the Carnotaurus from the Lost World novel.

Edit: beaten more times than the plot for JW.

 

[Sesha]

I hope we see more new animals. The only real new animal we saw in the first movie was Mosasaurus, although lots more were present in promotional materials. JP2 was really good at showing the animals. I hope JW2 follows suit.

I really want to see Baryonyx, Allosaurus, Carnotaurus, Giganotosaurus, Oviraptors, Iguanodons, Plesiosaurs, Pliosaurs, Basilosaurs, Dunkleosteus, Dimetrodon, Quetzalcoatlus, Archaeopteryx, Deinosuchus, Kaprosuchus, Megalania, Titanoboa and more.

 

[Kyleripman]

Chameleon Carnotaurus would be very welcome.

Cool thread. I like the plot hints so far. SO glad it's not war...now let's see if they can take the issues of animal rights further than TLW did.

 

[brandonh83]

Ian Malcom's appearance in TLW was hardly shoehorned, given the source material.

The only reason Crichton wrote the book was because of the success of the first movie, the character was different than in the first movie and the reason he goes back to one of the islands is pretty lame. Spielberg didn't even really want to make The Lost World. It shows. So to me, yeah, it was shoehorned as pretty much the entire movie/book was. When watching the first movie, does the idea of the sequel being about Ian Malcolm going to another island to rescue his girlfriend cross anyone's mind? He was a supporting character in the first one but people liked him so they thought they should make him the main character for the sequel and it backfired.

I don't have a problem with sequels to movies, but everything about TLW was so incredibly transparent and the filmmakers felt obligated to make it rather than any desire to actually make it. Movies are made for money, but it doesn't mean that the artists involved aren't creatively engaged or lack the passion-- but TLW felt 100% like a cash grab instead of something that the creators actually wanted to do.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I want smaller dinosaurs. Bigger than raptors but small enough to enter buildings.

I guarantee we get hybrid raptors derived from the Indominus DNA with camouflage.

But I also hope we get some cool real dinosaurs to fit the bill as well. We need a prehistoric quadruped also, perhaps Dimetrodon, Kaprosuchus, or a Postosuchus.

 

[Sesha]

I think it's about time we see a Megalodon. I wished the movie had elaborated more on the aquatic parts of the park, although I get why it didn't.

 

[Contica]

I guarantee we get hybrid raptors derived from the Indominus DNA with camouflage.

But I also hope we get some cool real dinosaurs to fit the bill as well. We need a prehistoric quadruped also, perhaps Dimetrodon, Kaprosuchus, or a Postosuchus.

Dimetrodon is such an incredible oportunity for scares, it's pretty amazing it hasn't been used yet. Just imagine a night scene, and you see this finned creature just glide into the water. Maybe a couple of them. And then those jaws.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I guarantee we get hybrid raptors derived from the Indominus DNA with camouflage.

The "wild" raptors in the first novel could change their skin color as well, so that detail could make a return.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I really like The Lost World

 

[Banjotanooki]

I really like The Lost World

You and I both! Never knew it was disliked so much until I got on the internet, lol.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

You and I both! Never knew it was disliked so much until I got on the internet, lol.

It's strange, it really is only sections of the Internet that talk about film. Almost anyone you talk to in person likes or or doesn't mind it, but totally dislikes JP3.

I think the weirder trend isn't those who dislike TLW, but those who think JP3 is actually watchable.

 

[Dragon1893]

I actually watched the first one yesterday. I hope they aren't planning on opening another themepark lol. Even the movie jokes about the fact that people would've learned that lesson by now.

 

[Contica]

It's strange, it really is only sections of the Internet that talk about film. Almost anyone you talk to in person likes or or doesn't mind it, but totally dislikes JP3.

I think the weirder trend isn't those who dislike TLW, but those who think JP3 is actually watchable.

Yeah, I haven't met anyone who likes JP3. I'm such a dinofan that I want to like it just cause it has dinosaurs, but I rewatched it lately, and it was really hard to get through. The only good thing about it is the raptors, which I love, but other than that, hot garbage.

The Lost World on the other hand, I really enjoy. It has some really stupid moments, but therenare so many classic awesome scenes in it, that I just love it. I also really love the cinematography in it.

I hope JW2 looks to TLW for its visuals, rather than continuing with the blue sheen that ruins so many movies these days.

 

[brandonh83]

JP3 is better. But I guess I've already been over why I think it's decently fun and TLW is straight garbage and it's probably not just material for this thread

 

[DiipuSurotu]

TLW had amazing cinematography and a refreshing plot. JP3 looked like a TV movie or straight-to-video.

 

[brandonh83]

edit: not doing this lol

 

[Kyleripman]

I'm in the JP3 camp. The pteranodon sequence alone is fantastic.

I don't hate TLW or anything, but over the years since its release, I've realized more and more that it's a poor adaptation of my favorite Crichton book.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm in the JP3 camp. The pteranodon sequence alone is fantastic.

I used to think TLW was better but Grant was better in JP3 than Ian was in TLW, JP3 is a fun movie that lacks cynicism that isn't entirely shot with night scenes, had much cooler locations (Ingen labs, pteranodon facility), a story while, certainly not deep, something I'll take over a rich dude trying to take a T-Rex to San Diego, it continued the raptor intelligence thread from the first movie that TLW didn't even bother with, the dinos had more flair to them, there were cooler dinos, etc etc etc. Just many reasons for me.

It's also over in 90 minutes whereas you have to put up with TLW's bullshit for over 2 hours. Oh JP3 had an abrupt ending but I liked the climax with returning the raptor eggs a hell of a lot more than the fucking stupid San Diego shenanigans. Give me JP3 over that movie anytime.

 

[nekkid]

TLW had amazing cinematography and a refreshing plot. JP3 looked like a TV movie or straight-to-video.

I'm with this. JP3 was just a horribly constructed movie. The music, the acting, the cinematography, the story - it's all terrible. You can practically see the green screen on the opening parasail sequence.

TLW was a poor adaptation of the book, and definitely had faults (gymnastics....) but it feels like I'm actually watching something someone put effort into, and still had a spark of Spielberg magic.

 

[brandonh83]

The acting in JP3 is certainly no worse than in TLW. Neill, Macy, Leoni, Nivola all did really good. And music? The soundtrack was fantastic. I'd also like to hear a solid defense behind how TLW's story is better than JP3's. There's not too much to JP3's story, it's pretty straightforward but to me that makes it better than how fucking stupid TLW's was.

Also Billy was a much better and more relatable character than any of the buffoons in TLW. I can buy the "fish out of water" characters in JP3 not knowing how to act on an island full of dinosaurs but TLW was full of supposed professionals and rich people yet they were completely stupid. A guy goes to pee and winds up 5 miles away from camp and gets eaten by compies. An animal enthusiast hangs a bloody backpack in a tent they're sleeping in knowing they're being tracked by two Tyrannosaurs. A rich dude wants to take Tyrannosaurs to San Diego.

 

[nekkid]

The acting in JP3 is certainly no worse than in TLW. Neill, Macy, Leoni, Nivola all did really good. And music? The soundtrack was fantastic. I'd also like to hear a solid defense behind how TLW's story is better than JP3's.

Also Billy was a much better and more relatable character than any of the buffoons in TLW.

I thought you might have been trolling, but now I'm convinced.

He's a "relatable character" as designed by studio suits.

 

[brandonh83]

He's a "relatable character" as designed by studio suits.

I'll be here if you want to make an actual argument!

 

[nekkid]

I'll be here if you want to make an actual argument!

Likewise.

Oh I see you edited it twice.

Basically it's "paragliding because millenials". He's a shoehorned "cool" character.

 

[brandonh83]

Likewise.

Sure! He wasn't a cynical asshole, had good chemistry with Grant, was a nice guy, and the only "stupid" thing he did was take the raptor eggs so that he could fund his and Grant's research, which caused an argument and later Grant admitted he overreacted while talking to Eric about it. This was a far better character relationship than anything in TLW.

Basically it's "paragliding because millenials". He's a shoehorned "cool" character.

After getting chewed out by Grant, he committed a selfless and heroic act to save Eric. If your perspective is studios and money and that's your argument instead of taking the context provided by the film, that's your prerogative. And honestly I don't even really know what you mean.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

TLW is the only Jurassic sequel with set pieces on par with the original, hands down.

JP3 and World don't come close. Obviously though, a lot more factors play into the quality of a movie than set pieces.

Spoiler

Thankfully TLW has them going for it.

 

[Kyleripman]

The only thing hard to swallow about Billy's character is that he survived in the end. Otherwise he's pretty good. The "astronomers vs astronauts" conversation between Grant and Eric gives nice insight into who Billy is as a person.

I used to think TLW was better but Grant was better in JP3 than Ian was in TLW, JP3 is a fun movie that lacks cynicism that isn't entirely shot with night scenes, had much cooler locations (Ingen labs, pteranodon facility), a story while, certainly not deep, something I'll take over a rich dude trying to take a T-Rex to San Diego, it continued the raptor intelligence thread from the first movie that TLW didn't even bother with, the dinos had more flair to them, there were cooler dinos, etc etc etc. Just many reasons for me.

It's also over in 90 minutes whereas you have to put up with TLW's bullshit for over 2 hours. Oh JP3 had an abrupt ending but I liked the climax with returning the raptor eggs a hell of a lot more than the fucking stupid San Diego shenanigans. Give me JP3 over that movie anytime.

Right on. JP3 raptors are my favorite in the series.

 

[brandonh83]

TLW is the only Jurassic sequel with set pieces on par with the original, hands down.

I liked the raptors in the jungle/ambulance chase/Indominus standoff farrrrrr more than anything in TLW, but that also has to do partially with me liking the characters and story in JW a lot more. The trailer sequence is great but I didn't like Ian or Sarah, Nick was okay and Eddie, the only character worth a shit in that movie, was naturally the best part about it.

The San Diego set piece was completely terrible. The raptor attack is completely killed because of Kelly. The rounding up the dinos in TLW was cool though.

 

[nekkid]

A trait of JP up until that point was that it had an underlying message about science. Whether that's the ethics of genetic manipulation, or the impact of humans on an ecosystem.

JP3 threw that all away and concentrated on just putting dinosaurs on the screen. It's passable as an braindead action movie, but not as a JP movie.

 

[brandonh83]

JP3 threw that all away and concentrated on just putting dinosaurs on the screen. It's passable as an braindead action movie, but not as a JP movie.

Well, there was the implications that Ingen were doing something behind the curtains, Grant's comment about playing god when asked by Amanda if this is how you make dinosaurs, and the velociraptor subplot-- there were enough "sciency" things in the movie I thought. It didn't really have some big message but it's not like TLW had any substantial or smart point to make either.

TLW was basically just... it's a bad idea to take the dinosaurs off the island and to the mainland, but duh, that goes without saying. And it ends with Hammond's monologue about letting the animals stay there without interference, but there's nothing particularly profound about that either. Basically I don't think you can give TLW any points in that regard either. JP3 was mostly about the raptors which I found to be really interesting, a lot more so than anything in the second one.

 

[nekkid]

Well, there was the implications that Ingen were doing something behind the curtains, Grant's comment about playing god when asked by Amanda if this is how you make dinosaurs, and the velociraptor subplot-- there were enough "sciency" things in the movie I thought. It didn't really have some big message but it's not like TLW had any substantial or smart point to make either.

TLW was basically just... it's a bad idea to take the dinosaurs off the island and to the mainland, but duh, that goes without saying. And it ends with Hammond's monologue about letting the animals stay there without interference, but there's nothing particularly profound about that either. Basically I don't think you can give TLW any points in that regard either.

Any attempt by JP3 to deal with science and consequence was just superficial because they thought they needed to, rather than building it into the story.

And TLW is more than just about removal of the animals to the mainland, it's about observation vs commercialism. The wild vs zoos. Poachers vs scientists.

It's not as well-engrained as JP, but it's built into the subtext from the start nonetheless.

 

[ZeoVGM]

JP3 is a god awful movie.

 

[stilgar]

I thought I'd hate Jurassic World, and it was pretty awesome. I hope it won't suffer from sequelitis too much.

 

[brandonh83]

Any attempt by JP3 to deal with science and consequence was just superficial because they thought they needed to, rather than building it into the story.

I guess for me it just wasn't handled in any interesting way and I think the movie is bad, so regardless of the subtext that's there, it doesn't really matter. Had the movie been a lot better and its ideas worth actually talking about, that'd be different. It just being there isn't good enough and doesn't give it more merit-- to me anyway.

Whereas I at least thought the raptor stuff in JP3 was really cool. That felt like actual evolution to me. But I'm a big raptor fan. JP3 had a focus on them, Billy's intro was showing Grant the rapid prototyper, Grant and Ellie talked about how if the dinosaurs weren't wiped out that they'd have become the dominant species on the planet, the designs were fantastic, they set traps, tracked the eggs and demonstrated extreme intelligence rather than pure savagery when they encounter the group at the end.

In TLW a high schooler kicks one out of a window and does a dramatic pose after. You'll forgive me if that doesn't alone like destroy that entire movie for me.

I thought I'd hate Jurassic World, and it was pretty awesome. I hope it won't suffer from sequelitis too much.

I thought Trevorrow did very well for his first major film directorial debut, but J.A. Bayona has a lot more experience and has turned in some great films so far. The Orphanage and The Impossible were both fantastic. I have no doubt this one will be better.

 

[nekkid]

I guess for me it just wasn't handled in any interesting way and I think the movie is bad, so regardless of the subtext that's there, it doesn't really matter. Had the movie been a lot better and its ideas worth actually talking about, that'd be different. It just being there isn't good enough and doesn't give it more merit-- to me anyway.

Whereas I at least thought the raptor stuff in JP3 was really cool. That felt like actual evolution to me. But I'm a big raptor fan. JP3 had a focus on them, Billy's intro was showing Grant the rapid prototyper, Grant and Ellie talked about how if the dinosaurs weren't wiped out that they'd have become the dominant species on the planet, the designs were fantastic, they set traps, tracked the eggs and demonstrated extreme intelligence rather than pure savagery when they encounter the group at the end.

In TLW a high schooler kicks one out of a window and does a dramatic pose after. You'll forgive me if that doesn't alone like destroy that entire movie for me.

We'll have to agree to disagree. But Alan Grant dreaming of a talking raptor trumps the T Rex in San Diego for stupid plot ideas.

And the military merrily showing up and the raptors running away - did they run out of money or ideas, at that point?

 

[brandonh83]

We'll have to agree to disagree. But Alan Grant dreaming of a talking raptor trumps the T Rex in San Diego for stupid plot ideas.

It was dumb, but at least it was just a dream and didn't actually happen. It was also like a second long whereas the San Diego sequence was the entire climax of the movie. I'd say one thing is definitely more damning than the other.

And the military merrily showing up and the raptors running away - did they run out of money or ideas, at that point?

It was very abrupt. We'll agree with that. I don't think JP3 is a great movie, never proclaimed that. Just that I think it's absolutely a better watch than TLW. And less offensive to my tastes.