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Jury has reached verdict in Dzhokhar Tsarnaev trial - sentenced to death

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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.



So by these words, how are you not saying that people are no better, or equal to him? What the fuck?

Because you think in trying to draw some equality to the crime he has committed and I'm speaking in terms of human conscienceness. Put yourself in a vacuum. There is a criminal; the crime doesn't matter. There are people saying "Put him to death". Explain to me how those people weigh a better conscience than the criminal.
 

Verger

Banned
Why do people keep on saying this, isn't the answer obvious? We should try and hold ourselves to better standards than murderers and psychopaths.
Uh, we already do that by living everyday lives and minding our own business. Not plotting and carrying out plans to murder and maim innocent people (men, women and children) who were just out for a good time.

So yeah, my conscience is clear here.
 
We are so not beyond that. Not even close.

He'll die, because he more than deserves it. And it will be done. And we'll move on.

We'll move regardless of state sanctioned murder. You know who doesn't really get to move on though? The people that have lost decades of their lives because of being wrongfully convicted, and of course there's been innocents executed throughout the centuries but who knows the number there. Tsarnaev is guilty but the system is faulty, horrible mistakes can be made, and so there's sane justification for it's existence.

Abolish it
 
It's pure rhetoric. People support the death penalty because they say it's better for society to remove violent, useless criminals from the population. People opposed to the death penalty try to show that it's not helping society because it costs more for the condemned to exhaust their appeals. I think the death penalty is used too often, but I think we need it for situations like this. I don't care if it's more expensive. I'd pay a premium for this one to die screaming.

Being torn apart by starving dogs is too good for Tsarnaev, but I suppose lethal injection is going to have to be enough. Traitorous, murdering little shit.

It's emotional outbursts like these that reinforce my opinion that the death penalty is a bad idea. Encouraging people to be torn apart by dogs is uncivilized regardless of the situation.

If we really want to consider ourselves better than the criminals that we supposedly despise, then that's just more reason to avoid inheriting their mindset.
 
Uh, we already do that by living everday lives and minding our own business. Not plotting and carrying plans to murder and maim innocent people who were just out for a good time.

So yeah, my conscience is clear here.

It's not a matter of clean conscience. It's a matter of whether an execution benefits anyone in any tangible way.
 
i mean its whatever

i dont have an answer or preference...good people died, his life is ruined, and there's just this void that's left behind, and for...what?

the positive thing about this is that it is at least a form of closure for those families
 
If he feels death is wrong unless for self defense, I'm not sure why the motivation of vengeance would be considered more moral than a political statement. Your moral compass allows that leeway and his doesn't. There's nothing disgusting about it.
You're saying this as if someone's moral compass can't be misguided. Comparing people who support the death penalty to literal terrorists is an unreasonable opinion. And one that ignores so many obvious reasons of why they're not the same that I find the opinion disgusting. It completely ignores the nuance of motivation and the psychological reasoning for said motivations. Thank God people like him aren't making laws, because our court system would be even more unreasonable then it already is. Saying that two people are equally guilty just because they committed the same crime makes the issue far too black and white, and wouldn't fly anywhere where reasonable discussion is to be had.

And just because someone has a moral compass doesn't mean where it leads them can't be disgusting. His moral compass is leading him to an extremist, unreasonable opinion.
 
i mean its whatever

i dont have an answer or preference...good people died, his life is ruined, and there's just this void that's left behind, and for...what?

the positive thing about this is that it is at least a form of closure for those families

You support killing people for closure?

He's not breathing our air and using resources to keep him alive. that's a net benefit in my mind.

It really isn't that simple.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
I support the death penalty but I don't have enough faith in the justice system to think it really helps more than it hurts. Ideally, criminals that can't be rehabilitated should absolutely be put to death since they're just a danger to others in the prison.

But I still want all young terrorists to get life in prison. This is a man who tried to kill as many innocent people as possible and then during his trial he claimed he was just following along with his big brother. Giving him the death penalty allows him to die as a martyr while giving him life in prison shows the world an example of a guy who was a coward and a hypocrite. Will make people think twice about supporting such ideology when someone who was supposedly a hero/true believer starts changing his mind over time.
 

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
The reason I don't like the death penalty is that it's the easy way out. Give him the manson treatment, live out his life in solitary confinement with nothing and nobody but his thoughts.
 
I'm an unwavering opponent against the death penalty, but with that said, I can perfectly understand the thought process of one who feels, at his/her core, that Tsarnaev doesn't deserve to live. It is a mentality purely driven by reactionary emotions, and there's nothing wrong with that; it's human to believe his penance should be the equivalent of what he committed. "Why do I have to pay my hard-earned taxdollars to keep sub-human filth alive?" It's inane to call people 'inhumane' for responding to a circumstance like this, let alone calling them 'no better a person than the killer itself' - what the fuck is this and what sort of grotesque mental gymnastics does one have to perform to reach this conclusion?.

But evaluating the situation with complete neutrality - the death penalty is never acceptable. Ever. Let the trash rot in jail where he spends decades upon decades staring at a blank wall. If we're talking purely punishment-wise, that's perfectly viable. Additionally, it's a non-barbaric, non-violent resolution that, while allowing leeway for rehabilitation/remorse (if possible), is also economically more viable than capital punishment.
 

Darkangel

Member
I don't have a problem with the death penalty when the case is as clear as this one. Colarado super max might be more of a punishment though.
 

studyguy

Member
There is no humane option at this point. It's the end of the line for the guy regardless who what choices are made for his final fate. Whether he rots in a cell for life or ends up being executed, it doesn't make the matter of lives lost somehow more even to me. I'm sure some people will see it that way, eye for an eye and all, but 5 dead and hundreds injured to 1 life is a shitty scale to weigh your vengeance on to me personally.

Honestly I see life in prison as the worse of the two options given his young age. Then again this is all my 2 cents. Fully understand why the public would be clamoring for death though. This is a raw deal for everyone.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Who talks like this?

Lmao

I'm an unwavering opponent against the death penalty, but with that said, I can perfectly understand the thought process of one who feels, at his/her core, that Tsarnaev doesn't deserve to live. It is a mentality purely driven by reactionary emotions, and there's nothing wrong with that; it's human to believe his penance should be the equivalent of what he committed. "Why do I have to pay my hard-earned taxdollars to keep sub-human filth alive?" It's inane to call people 'inhumane' for responding to a circumstance like this, let alone calling them 'no better a person than the killer itself' - what the fuck is this and what sort of grotesque mental gymnastics does one have to perform to reach this conclusion?.

But evaluating the situation with complete neutrality - the death penalty is never acceptable. Ever. Let the trash rot in jail where he spends decades upon decades staring at a blank wall. If we're talking purely punishment-wise, that's perfectly viable. Additionally, it's a non-barbaric, non-violent resolution that, while allowing leeway for rehabilitation/remorse (if possible), is also economically more viable than capital punishment.

I agree. I think once we start calling other human beings as something less than human, savage or whatever, we open up the possibility of doing awful things to other people. And you can't opposed to the death penalty because you think killing is wrong and then at the same time argue that it's okay in this one case because killing him would be right. But what I don't get is the argument that we should avoid the death penalty because it's lenient and that he should "rot in jail". That doesn't seem consistent. Does that mean that everyone else that gets their death sentence reduced to life in prison are also facing a harsher punishment? We should be in favor of an extended sentence rather than capital punishment because it's more humane, not because we want him to suffer more.
 

Nokagi

Unconfirmed Member
Kill him or not I don't give a shit.Either way it goes he will suffer and never again be a threat to anyone. He was found guilty and that's all that matters.
 
Who talks like this?
<-- My name is right there

I understand those who want to abolish the death penalty and I'm sympathetic with most of the arguments up to a point. When it comes to heinous crimes like these, if the accused have had their day in court and found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then removing that person from our world is the right call.

I don't want to see him tortured in solitary for decades. That would be bloodlust. I think his life is forfeit though, for damn sure.
 

Sheroking

Member
I'm against the death penalty in every case, but I'm not going to be flummoxed by any recent sentences. It will be out of rotation by the time anyone recently sentenced will have to face execution.

There has never been a good argument for the death penalty. Misses the point of the justice system, is morally reprehensible, is responsible for at least 70 provably innocent people being executed (the real number is likely way bigger) and it serves no real practical purpose. The real reason it's fallen out of favor and states are walking away from it, officially or unofficially? Because it's not cost effective.

Good ol' USA.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Perfect example of the kind of person who should be executed. Mass murderer, no question of guilt. Just kill him and let the world move on.
 
What is the compassionate choice at this point for Tsarnaev?

ANSWER: After being found guilty on every count, none.

So now the argument shifts to, "well life in prison is just as bad as Death! Maybe even worse!"

Moving goal posts. If life was always as bad and maybe worse than death I'm not sure why we even have the penalty in the first place or why anyone over it.

Like I said. I get why people are so adamant about death here. The certainty of guilt and nature of the crime even has me wondering if death would be just. I dug my heels in years ago regarding this for lots of reasons, and just because this one time regarding this one case I feel it wouldn't be used poorly doesn't mean it's a good practice holistically.

Being for the death penalty is America is essentially being for putting a small amount of innocent people to death as well because fuck it the bad ones deserve it.
 

Buzzati

Banned
Because you think in trying to draw some equality to the crime he has committed and I'm speaking in terms of human conscienceness. Put yourself in a vacuum. There is a criminal; the crime doesn't matter. There are people saying "Put him to death". Explain to me how those people weigh a better conscience than the criminal.

Oh, it's not very hard. You can think of a lot of ways. For example, Classical Liberalism of the Enlightenment agreed that the freedom and liberty of all individuals was fundamental to human morality. It was generally agreed to be pursuant to "the good life". This is where philosophies like utilitarianism were born from. A utilitarian could argue that freedom of individuals flourishes if he could demonstrate that killing someone like Tsarnaev could reduce the amount of atrocities in society. Whether or not that's true, I don't know - but the idea of a "better conscience" is decidedly a question of ethics.
 
Who talks like this?

It's people who probably wouldn't carry out an execution. Let's face it, the majority of people in the world would not to execute this person by whatever means available. At this point it's supported because they're clearly really emotional and they think him dying will somehow sate whatever anger they have or make things right with the world. It's short sighted.
 

Spider from Mars

tap that thorax
Who talks like this?

Dude is role playing as Dr. Manhattan.

Also, lots of blood lust in this here thread.
black-mirror-2x02.png
 

Lemaitre

Banned
It's people who probably wouldn't carry out an execution. Let's face it, the majority of people in the world would not be the person to execute him by whatever means available. At this point it's supported because they're clearly really emotional and they think him dying will somehow sate whatever anger they have or make things right with the world. It's short sighted.

Right. And that's a really old school way of thought. Eye for an eye kind of mindset.

You'd think we'd be past this by now, especially in the USA. Or maybe I think too well of our country.
 
He burned that bridge when he murdered random innocent people.

He'll get death because people don't want him to persist. He has no place in society any more.

I don't agree at all, how would he reach the point of needing rehabilitation without carrying a crime, especially if there aren't proper safeguards in place where his extremism can be caught early enough to avoid any loss of life?

Burning the bridge would be to go through rehabilitation, re-enter society and to fall back into his old ways.
 

RevDM

Banned
This kid will live longer on death row. If he gets life I wouldn't be surprised if he is killed in less than a week.
 

Sanjuro

Member
So now the argument shifts to, "well life in prison is just as bad as Death! Maybe even worse!"

Moving goal posts. If life was always as bad and maybe worse than death I'm not sure why we even have the penalty in the first place or why anyone over it.

Like I said. I get why people are so adamant about death here. The certainty of guilt and nature of the crime even has me wondering if death would be just. I dug my heels in years ago regarding this for lots of reasons, and just because this one time regarding this one case I feel it wouldn't be used poorly doesn't mean it's a good practice holistically.

Being for the death penalty is America is essentially being for putting a small amount of innocent people to death as well because fuck it the bad ones deserve it.

What goal post have I moved? I stayed on topic.

You started talking about "bloodlust" or something of that nature. That is one goal post I'm not interested in touching, so I skipped it. I don't share that opinion or care to discuss it.

I'm not adamant about anything here. Going into this, everyone around here were just under the assumption the guy would disappear. We are now confirmed this will happen one way or another.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
If you were on the jury, would you sentence Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to "X" amount of years in Euro rehab, if hypothetically that were an option?

Yes. I mean, from a practical basis I very highly doubt that he could be rehabilitated, so really it would be effectively the same as life in prison given he'd be rejected at every review; but yes, I would.
 
I don't have a problem with the death penalty when the case is as clear as this one. Colarado super max might be more of a punishment though.

What about the cases that ended up with innocent's on death-row, or actually executed throughout history. When you say you don't have a problem in this instance you're ok'ing the existence of something so imperfect, that has fucked enough people that it should make any sane man question why the hell it's still on the table. I don't care how clear cut it is.

There's just no moral justification for why such a thing is allowed to continue in this country, or any country.
 

Pyrrhus

Member
He burned that bridge when he murdered random innocent people.

He'll get death because people don't want him to persist. He has no place in society any more.

Exactly. I don't want him to have an epiphany or be rehabilitated. I do not wish him to discover a reason or purpose for his continued life. I do not think he deserves to find any future satisfaction in any meager thing he may do or accomplish in super max. He stole the dreams and lives of a great number of people. He came into the embrace of this country and was given special treatment because of his circumstances, and then repaid the people who welcomed him with blood and terror. He doesn't deserve a chance at redemption.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
What else should we do with these people? People like Manson, McVeigh, Tsarnaev, Breivik should not be allowed to sit in jail for the rest of their lives disseminating more hateful thoughts and attracting more insane followers. Not to mention what we should do with international criminals like bin Laden, Hitler, etc. if we were to ever capture them alive. I don't think we should be executing people for any kind of isolated crime but when we're talking about mass murderers who unquestionably committed their crimes, they should be killed.

This isn't "bloodlust." Hell all the people arguing how a lifetime in prison is actually worse, being possibly beaten, raped, or in solitary come off as way more vengeful to me. I fortunately have no personal attachment to anyone who was hurt or killed in Boston. I don't have a lot of personal emotions about that event. There's just no reason to keep these people alive, and as we have seen in the past a good number of them will just continue to spread their horrible ideals from their jail cell, or even worse siring children from prison (e.g. Tex Watson). The world will be better off without them.
 
Yes. I mean, from a practical basis I very highly doubt that he could be rehabilitated, so really it would be effectively the same as life in prison given he'd be rejected at every review; but yes, I would.

This is always confusing to me the "I doubt X". What expertise do you have on rehabilitation?
 
Because you think in trying to draw some equality to the crime he has committed and I'm speaking in terms of human conscienceness. Put yourself in a vacuum. There is a criminal; the crime doesn't matter. There are people saying "Put him to death". Explain to me how those people weigh a better conscience than the criminal.


So basically make a judgement call outside of reality? Nothing happens in a vacuum and the crime absolutely matters.

Im not even necessarily for the death penalty in this case but I dont understand this type of thinking.
 
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