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[Hale-XF11]

I'm noticing a very singular viewpoint here.

What happens in a scenario where someone who is more casual about gaming, say a 30-40 something year old working man who doesn't keep up with gaming news AT ALL, but goes to his local mom and pop store and asks for the latest Halo game? He goes home to play it, only to find out he's banned from his own xbox all because the store, as it turns out, sold him the latest game a day early before the actual release date.

How was he supposed to know? Why is he to blame? If he has a receipt is he in the clear?

 

[CommonSense]

Not sure what the issue is. If MS stated (and they did) to not play the game until release day and you did so anyway....ban. It's really not on them to bend on the rule regardless of how you got the game.

You saw the rule...you broke the rule...period.

 

[CommonSense]

I'm noticing a very singular viewpoint here.

What happens in a scenario where someone who is more casual about gaming, say a 30-40 something year old working man who doesn't keep up with gaming news AT ALL, but goes to his local mom and pop store and asks for the latest Halo game? He goes home to play it, only to find out he's banned from his own xbox all because the store, as it turns out, sold him the latest game a day early before the actual release date.

How was he supposed to know? Why is he to blame? If he has a receipt is he in the clear?

A am a thirty something casual gamer...we are not ignorant.

 

[Hale-XF11]

A am a thirty something casual gamer...we are not ignorant.

I think you're missing my point. Do you really think that everyone who owns an xbox is aware of this? That would be a ridiculous assumption, honestly.

 

[Ravensmash]

I believe you can play the stuff on your HDD, but you can't connect to anything online to re-download.

Wow, that is ridiculous. If I make a purchase then I fully expect to have access to said content regardless of whether I'm banned or not.

 

[MrDaravon]

I'm noticing a very singular viewpoint here.

What happens in a scenario where someone who is more casual about gaming, say a 30-40 something year old working man who doesn't keep up with gaming news AT ALL, but goes to his local mom and pop store and asks for the latest Halo game? He goes home to play it, only to find out he's banned from his own xbox all because the store, as it turns out, sold him the latest game a day early before the actual release date.

How was he supposed to know? Why is he to blame? If he has a receipt is he in the clear?

A day early is a non-issue; the OP had the game well before release date, my Gamestop didn't even have them in at this point. They usually only do things like this 4-5 days or more prior to the release date, and only on certain releases (a ton of people had GoW 3 weeks beforehand with no issues). In your scenario if the person had gotten it say 10 days early from a local store, the theory is that yes with the receipt they would be able to contact MS and get it taken care of as that would have been an honest mistake on the customer's part and the retailer would take whatever "punishment" from MS. Those kind of customers are not the people who also are on forums like GAF , so I'm not sure if that's actually happens though. Most of the people that are informed would have just stayed offline until release.

Wow, that is ridiculous. If I make a purchase then I fully expect to have access to said content regardless of whether I'm banned or not.

Digital future.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I'm noticing a very singular viewpoint here.

What happens in a scenario where someone who is more casual about gaming, say a 30-40 something year old working man who doesn't keep up with gaming news AT ALL, but goes to his local mom and pop store and asks for the latest Halo game? He goes home to play it, only to find out he's banned from his own xbox all because the store, as it turns out, sold him the latest game a day early before the actual release date.

How was he supposed to know? Why is he to blame? If he has a receipt is he in the clear?

Yes, at that point MS goes after the Walmart. OP is trying to protect the store cause they did it under the table wink wink handshake style. It wasn't a valid purchase as it was never logged in the computer for a reason. A real person stuck like you said would have no problems reporting where they bought it. This is not the case with the OP.

The person in your scenerio could bring it up with both MS and the store. In the end it was, is, and continues to be the stores fault which the OP will take to his grave.

 

[Ken Masters]

One of those 750,000 sales was to OP. A sale that happened BECAUSE MS banned his console.

Fuck

 

[Baconsammy]

I'm noticing a very singular viewpoint here.

What happens in a scenario where someone who is more casual about gaming, say a 30-40 something year old working man who doesn't keep up with gaming news AT ALL, but goes to his local mom and pop store and asks for the latest Halo game? He goes home to play it, only to find out he's banned from his own xbox all because the store, as it turns out, sold him the latest game a day early before the actual release date.

How was he supposed to know? Why is he to blame? If he has a receipt is he in the clear?

I'd assume that 30-40 year old is smart enough to know that when the checkout person tells him he can't provide a receipt out of fear of what Microsoft will do to them for selling it, that he should move on to another store that behaves significantly less shady. It's hilarious how many people are missing that point. If the guy had a receipt to show Frankie or Microsoft Support, there wouldnt be an issue.

 

[Hanmik]

A day early is a non-issue; the OP had the game well before release date, my Gamestop didn't even have them in at this point. They usually only do things like this 4-5 days or more prior to the release date, and only on certain releases (a ton of people had GoW 3 weeks beforehand with no issues). In your scenario if the person had gotten it say 10 days early from a local store, the theory is that yes with the receipt they would be able to contact MS and get it taken care of as that would have been an honest mistake on the customer's part and the retailer would take whatever "punishment" from MS. Those kind of customers are not the people who also are on forums like GAF , so I'm not sure if that's actually happens though. Most of the people that are informed would have just stayed offline until release.


Digital future.

but that wouldn´t help.. they would still be banned fór playing the game early..

 

[Hale-XF11]

Those kind of customers are not the people who also are on forums like GAF , so I'm not sure if that's actually happens though. Most of the people that are informed would have just stayed offline until release.

That's the point I was trying to make. If we don't know that it happens, does MS know and how do they handle it?

I would take it further and ask, what if the legit customer doesn't have a receipt? I don't think the casual, un-informed gamer should have to prove that he owns a game he bought legit, just because he bought it early at no fault to themselves.

 

[Kusagari]

Yes, at that point MS goes after the Walmart. OP is trying to protect the store cause they did it under the table wink wink handshake style. It wasn't a valid purchase as it was never logged in the computer for a reason. A real person stuck like you said would have no problems reporting where they bought it. This is not the case with the OP.

The person in your scenerio could bring it up with both MS and the store. In the end it was, is, and continues to be the stores fault which the OP will take to his grave.

You do realize people in this very topic have said that they brought up the receipt and MS didn't give a shit right?

It has no bearing. MS doesn't care.

 

[winter]

A am a thirty something casual gamer...we are not ignorant.

You're posting on a message board dedicated to videogame industry news and discussion. You aren't a casual gamer.

 

[Uno Venova]

I'd assume that 30-40 year old is smart enough to know that when the checkout person tells him he can't provide a receipt out of fear of what Microsoft will do to them for selling it, that he should move on to another store that behaves significantly less shady. It's hilarious how many people are missing that point. If the guy had a receipt to show Frankie or Microsoft Support, there wouldnt be an issue.

Nope, there is another poster who showed a receipt and they didn't give a shit.

 

[Hanmik]

I'd assume that 30-40 year old is smart enough to know that when the checkout person tells him he can't provide a receipt out of fear of what Microsoft will do to them for selling it, that he should move on to another store that behaves significantly less shady. It's hilarious how many people are missing that point. If the guy had a receipt to show Frankie or Microsoft Support, there wouldnt be an issue.

A guy just above you provided a reciept.. he is still BANNED..

 

[Interfectum]

I don't get this. Realistically, what were his options here? What would he do with his game collection?

Sell his games and support another company that didn't treat him like dog shit?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

You do realize people in this very topic have said that they brought up the receipt and MS didn't give a shit right?

It has no bearing. MS doesn't care.

Has the OP posted a reciept or even said what store it was yet or did he not give that info and buy another system?

 

[Hale-XF11]

Yes, at that point MS goes after the Walmart. OP is trying to protect the store cause they did it under the table wink wink handshake style. It wasn't a valid purchase as it was never logged in the computer for a reason. A real person stuck like you said would have no problems reporting where they bought it. This is not the case with the OP.

The person in your scenerio could bring it up with both MS and the store. In the end it was, is, and continues to be the stores fault which the OP will take to his grave.

I'd assume that 30-40 year old is smart enough to know that when the checkout person tells him he can't provide a receipt out of fear of what Microsoft will do to them for selling it, that he should move on to another store that behaves significantly less shady. It's hilarious how many people are missing that point. If the guy had a receipt to show Frankie or Microsoft Support, there wouldnt be an issue.

Ah yes, that would indeed be a problem. Definitely shady, mmmm.

But I still maintain that a receipt should not have to be presented. Tough dilemma.

 

[I'm an expert]

Wow, that is ridiculous. If I make a purchase then I fully expect to have access to said content regardless of whether I'm banned or not.

I suggest you look around you..it's 2012..

 

[Baconsammy]

You're posting on a message board dedicated to videogame industry news and discussion. You aren't a casual gamer.

You lose your casual status once you figure out how the Internet works?

 

[Ravensmash]

I talked to them almost two weeks. Nothing. As I said, they even don't want receipts to check.

This is horrible man :[

Digital future.

Indeed, I'm sure that something like that would be illegal under UK consumer law though (I hope), and they'd hopefully be forced to provide access to all purchased content - although I presume that this hasn't been tested yet.

^ Anyone more in the know, actually?

I suggest you look around you..it's 2012..

What do you mean by this?

 

[Kusagari]

Has the OP posted a reciept or even said what store it was yet or did he not give that info and buy another system?

There's a user on this page saying he was banned tried to give them the receipt and they didn't want it.

 

[I'm an expert]

Sell his games and support another company that didn't treat him like dog shit?

This is gaf, a place where a grown up has to make a sticky post to remind people to not be fanboys and to think rationally.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

There's a user on this page saying he was banned tried to give them the receipt and they didn't want it.

I'm asking about the OP, the entire reason for the thread. Maybe it is my phone and I'm not seeing it but who posted a pic of a reciept from 10 days before release. What store was it, I can't see the pic.

Ah yes, that would indeed be a problem. Definitely shady, mmmm.

But I still maintain that a receipt should not have to be presented. Tough dilemma.

Fine, no reciept... but what is the name and location of the store? He is hiding the info for a reason.

You're posting on a message board dedicated to videogame industry news and discussion. You aren't a casual gamer.

Neither is the OP.

 

[robotnjik]

You do realize people in this very topic have said that they brought up the receipt and MS didn't give a shit right?

It has no bearing. MS doesn't care.

This.
In my situation, game wasn't in console and they banned console and gamertag. They don't want receipts and they say that ban is for pre-release gameplay. I can somehow understand banning gamertag but console, it's ridiculous and shows that their banning system is flawed.

 

[Hale-XF11]

I guess in the instance where MS is not even willing to look at the receipt if you have one and continue to ban you, I'd do what I can as a consumer to fight back. File a report with the Better Business Bureau and Consumer Reports. Maybe even call your local news station and see if they want to make a story out of it. That's of course assuming it matters that much to you. I mean, what other recourse is there?

 

[MrDaravon]

If people are offering legitimate receipts to MS and they don't care, then yeah that's 100% fucked. I honestly think that MS customer service is incompetent though, and you just need to get to someone who knows what they're doing (which doesn't make it ok, just saying).

As an example, my original 360 disc drive died. I had purchased the 2-year extended warranty directly from Microsoft with that warranty card that came in the box. We sent it off, our credit card was charged. When I tried to get the 360 repaired they said that they had no record of me having the warranty. I faxed them the credit card statement clearly showing the charge (it even said something "MICROSOFT XBOX EXT WARRANTY") along with the charge information. I eventually got to a tier 3 rep who said that should be what they need, and he'd keep in contact with me until it was resolved. So this guy called me once a week for 7 weeks to let me know they were "still working on it." I reached out to someone on GAF who I knew would have contacts at MS, they forwarded my issue to someone directly there and it was resolved within 24 hours.

So if there's anything that everyone can agree on, it's that MS' customer service blows.

 

[Pezking]

It's a shitty situation, but since he knew going in he shouldn't have been able to get the copy he should have stayed offline :/.

Are you serious?

Since when do customers need to keep up with street dates in order to know whether or not they are allowed to buy a new game they see on a retailers shelve?

He bought the game, he shouldn't have to prove that to anybody, and MS should just accept the fact that they can't enforce a street date at a 100% rate.

If they can't prove that someone is playing a pirated copy, that person should not be banned.

 

[Hale-XF11]

Are you serious?

Since when do customers need to keep up with street dates in order to know whether or not they are allowed to buy a new game they see on a retailers shelve?

He bought the game, he shouldn't have to prove that to anybody, and MS should just accept the fact that they can't enforce a street date at a 100% rate.

If they can't prove that someone is playing a pirated copy, that person should not be banned.

I agree 100% with this post.

If people are offering legitimate receipts to MS and they don't care, then yeah that's 100% fucked. I honestly think that MS customer service is incompetent though, and you just need to get to someone who knows what they're doing (which doesn't make it ok, just saying).

As an example, my original 360 disc drive died. I had purchased the 2-year extended warranty directly from Microsoft with that warranty card that came in the box. We sent it off, our credit card was charged. When I tried to get the 360 repaired they said that they had no record of me having the warranty. I faxed them the credit card statement clearly showing the charge (it even said something "MICROSOFT XBOX EXT WARRANTY") along with the charge information. I eventually got to a tier 3 rep who said that should be what they need, and he'd keep in contact with me until it was resolved. So this guy called me once a week for 7 weeks to let me know they were "still working on it." I reached out to someone on GAF who I knew would have contacts at MS, they forwarded my issue to someone directly there and it was resolved within 24 hours.

So if there's anything that everyone can agree on, it's that MS' customer service blows.

Damn. That's not even customer service. Seven weeks and they're 'still working on it'? That's just called 'passing the buck.'

 

[GayForMaster]

Dude... if all you care about is your GTAG... seriously. Simple Solution.

SkeI1ingt0n. On XBL a capital i looks like a small L. Problem solved.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

This.
In my situation, game wasn't in console and they banned console and gamertag. They don't want receipts and they say that ban is for pre-release gameplay. I can somehow understand banning gamertag but console, it's ridiculous and shows that their banning system is flawed.

What store and location was it that sold it so early?

 

[Orca]

Are you serious?

Since when do customers need to keep up with street dates in order to know whether or not they are allowed to buy a new game they see on a retailers shelve?

He bought the game, he shouldn't have to prove that to anybody, and MS should just accept the fact that they can't enforce a street date at a 100% rate.

If they can't prove that someone is playing a pirated copy, that person should not be banned.

The guy clearly knew it was early - he appears to have talked the guy, probably a friend, into selling it early. When he needed to provide a receipt proving he'd purchased it, he didn't - to prevent whoever sold it (store or employee) from getting in trouble.

Yeah, it's shitty to get banned. It's also shitty to circumvent the sale date. It's also shitty to claim innocence when you're at least partly to blame. There's a ton of shit and it's all just getting thrown everywhere, so I'm really super glad I read the thread.

 

[Baconsammy]

Are you serious?

Since when do customers need to keep up with street dates in order to know whether or not they are allowed to buy a new game they see on a retailers shelve?

He bought the game, he shouldn't have to prove that to anybody, and MS should just accept the fact that they can't enforce a street date at a 100% rate.

If they can't prove that someone is playing a pirated copy, that person should not be banned.

Bullshit. If the person selling you a product outright tells you that they can't give you a receipt, you question why or you deal with the consequences.

 

[Pezking]

If MS stated (and they did) to not play the game until release day and you did so anyway....ban.

Where and when did they officially state that?
Has there been a press release or something similar?

I don't think there was any official statement regarding that matter.

And even if there was, they can't possibly expect every possible customer to keep up with their statements and announcements before purchasing a new game they see at a retailer.

Has the OP posted a reciept or even said what store it was yet or did he not give that info and buy another system?

No, and he shouldn't have to.

 

[winter]

You lose your casual status once you figure out how the Internet works?

No, but if you're a regular poster on the premier website for videogame esoterica like sales number bullshit and technical talk about shaders and cpus, then sorry, you don't fit the criteria of casual gamer.

Seriously, how is this a controversial statement? If you're a regular poster on GAF, you're not a fucking casual gamer by definition.

 

[I'm an expert]

No, but if you're a regular poster on the premier website for videogame esoterica like sales number bullshit and technical talk about shaders and cpus, then sorry, you don't fit the criteria of casual gamer.

Seriously, how is this a controversial statement? If you're a regular poster on GAF, you're not a fucking casual gamer by definition.

There are way bigger gaming forums than gaf.. Gaf is pretty niche actually.

 

[Interfectum]

Yeah, it's shitty to get banned. It's also shitty to circumvent the sale date. It's also shitty to claim innocence when you're at least partly to blame. There's a ton of shit and it's all just getting thrown everywhere, so I'm really super glad I read the thread.

What? Why is that shitty? Because you are messing up MS marketing? Some of you corporate apologists are getting to be a bit much. As customers who gives a fuck about the "sale date?" If you can get it early then more power to you.

 

[Baconsammy]

No, but if you're a regular poster on the premier website for videogame esoterica like sales number bullshit and technical talk about shaders and cpus, then sorry, you don't fit the criteria of casual gamer.

Seriously, how is this a controversial statement? If you're a regular poster on GAF, you're not a fucking casual gamer by definition.

My mother posts on food blogs. She's not a hardcore chef/cook/foodie. She just has an interest in cooking and from time to time likes to interact with like-minded people. Being a member of Neogaf doesn't make you hardcore in and of itself.

 

[alr1ght]

Anyone buying games from someone on craigslist should all be banned, according to some people here. No receipt = stolen. Clearly. Not even an issue if it's early release.

 

[Hale-XF11]

It's also shitty to circumvent the sale date.

I'm genuinely curious, but why does this matter to you personally?

 

[Pezking]

Bullshit. If the person selling you a product outright tells you that they can't give you a receipt, you question why or you deal with the consequences.

I agree that everyone's alarm should go off if a retailer won't give you a receipt. That certainly sounds very fishy.

But that's not the point here: When MS first banned him, they didn't know anything about all that. They just assumed that he's playing a pirated copy and banned him - after the game has already gone out to retailers, so there was a high probability that he was playing a legal copy from a retailer who broke the street date. And that's just something no customer should care about or even be punished for!

 

[Nealand Liquor]

I'm noticing a very singular viewpoint here.

What happens in a scenario where someone who is more casual about gaming, say a 30-40 something year old working man who doesn't keep up with gaming news AT ALL, but goes to his local mom and pop store and asks for the latest Halo game? He goes home to play it, only to find out he's banned from his own xbox all because the store, as it turns out, sold him the latest game a day early before the actual release date.

How was he supposed to know? Why is he to blame? If he has a receipt is he in the clear?

He's not, but the store employee is absolutely to blame. The employees, managers, owners know full well of release dates and punishment they risk when broken. This is nothing more than an unfortunate side effect to copywrite protection.

To put it into perspective, lets say you have a loaner car from a dealership while yours in in repair. While driving you are pulled over by the police, turns out that loaner's insurance has expired.
After explaining this is just a loaner the policeman lets you go but tells you to drive back to the dealership to sort it out, eating up some of your free time. Now who do you blame, the policeman for enforcing the law or the dealership for not following the law?

 

[robotnjik]

What store and location was it that sold it so early?

Friend bought me in one game and media shop in Hungary. I've got earlier some games from them and never had problems. Also, week before BLOPS2 release date I got review copy from Activision. It's common practice for me to play earlier (if possible and if I have time) and even then, I play them on office console (my mail coming there) and at evening, some games I play at home.

 

[winter]

My mother posts on food blogs. She's not a hardcore chef/cook/foodie. She just has an interest in cooking and from time to time likes to interact with like-minded people. Being a member of Neogaf doesn't make you hardcore in and of itself.

It may not make you hardcore, but it definitely makes you a hobbyist and at the very least exponentially more knowledgeable than the guy that only buys Call of Duty and Madden every year or the Mom that plays Wii with her kids.

Casuals don't post on neogaf. Videogame enthusiasts/hobbyists and hardcore gamers do.

 

[onlyindreams]

Putting everyone defending MS in this thread on my ignore list. You're all idiots.

 

[Zoe]

I agree that everyone's alarm should go off if a retailer won't give you a receipt. That certainly sounds very fishy.

But that's not the point here: When MS first banned him, they didn't know anything about all that. They just assumed that he's playing a pirated copy and banned him - after the game has already gone out to retailers, so there was a high probability that he was playing a legal copy from a retailer who broke the street date. And that's just something no customer should care about or even be punished for!

So how should they sort out who's being legit and who's being a pirate?

 

[sflufan]

Oh this gets even better!

The OP posts on another forum that I and a friend of his belong to and apparently MS auto renewed his LIVE account while banned and charged his credit card.

 

[Uno Venova]

So how should they sort out who's being legit and who's being a pirate?

That's for them to figure out instead of permanently banning everyone who plays.

Oh this gets even better!

The OP posts on another forum that I and a friend of his belong to and apparently MS auto renewed his LIVE account while banned and charged his credit card.

wh...wha...

 

[winter]

There are way bigger gaming forums than gaf.. Gaf is pretty niche actually.

Yes, which just proves my point. It's niche in that it deals with esoterica and industry matters and not "Hay guyz, how do I get past level three?" or "Who is your favorite sonic character?"

This is why you find so many developers and industry people on GAF.

 

[alr1ght]

So how should they sort out who's being legit and who's being a pirate?

That's up to them and their security. The burden shouldn't be placed on the player to prove they're playing a legit copy.