CornBurrito
Member
Ok... so this exchange was fucking stupid as fuck.
1. We HAD the receipts. Blarg said what Zubz was (truthfully) on D2. Before Zubz was lynched. Before Zubs claimed.
2. WHYYYYYYY out someone's role when you don't need to Blarg?
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Just Mafia |OT| Sometimes You Don't Need A Reason to Lynch Your Friends
- Thread starter CrimsonFist
- Start date
Ok... so this exchange was fucking stupid as fuck.
1. We HAD the receipts. Blarg said what Zubz was (truthfully) on D2. Before Zubz was lynched. Before Zubs claimed.
2. WHYYYYYYY out someone's role when you don't need to Blarg?
Blargonaut
Banned
HE'S AN INANIMATE OBJECT
CornBurrito
Member
Saying that franconp is vanilla basically helps scum sort out who to kill.
Blargonaut
Banned
But how do you know if I'm lying or not
Blargonaut
Banned
Dusk Soldier
Member
I definitely wouldn't lynch him today, if he's scum, which I agree is still a possibility,(Last game I played had a scum role cop, it's not unusual at all)
He has to at least pretend to be town and clear a few players for us.
CrimsonFist
Member
Day Ends:
Majority is 9
Dusk Soldier
Member
I think these are two astute observations.
Scum did have a switcher which could've been how they were supposed to get around the doctor role.
Also could've used that to mess with investigators.
Really good thing we got Cewyn when we did.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I think the most damning evidence against Kark is that he's been dancing around answering any of the important points people have brought up. He's got my vote for right now
Blargonaut
Banned
Expressing relief is a scumtell
CornBurrito
Member
Out of curiosity, what stops him from just lying at some point when "clearing" players?
Blargonaut
Banned
Blargonaut
Banned
Dusk Soldier
Member
Umm, ok....
That's the risk we take in believing he's town.
I'm just saying if he's scum and planning to deceive us, he's more likely to tell the truth now while he's trying to earn town trust.
CornBurrito
Member
Fair enough.
I'm fine with not lynching Blarg.
Looking at the vote yesterday, almost everyone voted for Zubz. Scum included naturally, since he was such an easy lynch.
However, scum also tends to split their votes. We may want to look at people who didnt vote for Zubz.
I'm fine with not lynching Blarg.
Looking at the vote yesterday, almost everyone voted for Zubz. Scum included naturally, since he was such an easy lynch.
However, scum also tends to split their votes. We may want to look at people who didnt vote for Zubz.
CornBurrito
Member
D2
D1
Interestingly, weemadarthur managed to place a lone vote both days. Avoiding the lynch of Cewyn and on Zubz. Making sure to not vote with his scum allies?
D1
Interestingly, weemadarthur managed to place a lone vote both days. Avoiding the lynch of Cewyn and on Zubz. Making sure to not vote with his scum allies?
also me, who didn't vote.
but if turbo wasn't so close already, it likely would of been on Zubz.
Though, if you look at the actual vote count post for D2, monkey pulled out of a vote on Blarg, melonrabbit pulled out of a vote on Zubz. Fat4all never voted.
Looking at Cewyn votes and now knowing that Zubz was town:
cewyn (7)
necktochicken 592
fat4all 644
franconp 653
hey_monkey 719
acohrs 721
nin1000 726
zubz 730
Nin, Monkey and Zubz are all dead and they were all town. I know I'm town and I'm leaning to believe neck is to as he is the one that proposed to vote for Cewyn instead of Zubz. Acohrs made his vote when Cewyn was tied with No Lynch at 4 and Launchpad and Zubz had 3. He could have pushed a lynch in any direction. It would be weird for scum to bus at that point during day 1.
Fat's vote was early and he didn't made a big explanation. Could he be scum bussing Cewyn?
Launch vote D1 was really weird. He voted Zubz saying that he was following Kark's lead when Kark was against a Zubz lynch. He later said he made a mistake. At that time No Lynch was in the lead with 4, Cewyn had 3 and with his vote he tied Zubz with 3 too.
cewyn (7)
necktochicken 592
fat4all 644
franconp 653
hey_monkey 719
acohrs 721
nin1000 726
zubz 730
Nin, Monkey and Zubz are all dead and they were all town. I know I'm town and I'm leaning to believe neck is to as he is the one that proposed to vote for Cewyn instead of Zubz. Acohrs made his vote when Cewyn was tied with No Lynch at 4 and Launchpad and Zubz had 3. He could have pushed a lynch in any direction. It would be weird for scum to bus at that point during day 1.
Fat's vote was early and he didn't made a big explanation. Could he be scum bussing Cewyn?
Launch vote D1 was really weird. He voted Zubz saying that he was following Kark's lead when Kark was against a Zubz lynch. He later said he made a mistake. At that time No Lynch was in the lead with 4, Cewyn had 3 and with his vote he tied Zubz with 3 too.
CornBurrito
Member
I excluded dead people, and cancelled votes.
CornBurrito
Member
Melon, fat, and wee.... my top 3 suspects right now.
I see that, but canceled votes can tell us something, too. Gives a better picture of how people moved around. Dead players, I count just to make sure I didn't miss anyone.
Don't have much experience with wee, so I don't know if tunnelling is normal for her or not.
Fatdog has been much less proactive this game than others with him, especially the last one where he killed me. Him being so quiet now makes me feel that he's hiding something. That or he's super busy, which I think he has said once or twice, no?
Melon, Well, I feel she's just a quiet player in general.
Corn, what do you think of dusk soldier, can't decide on their alignment personally
Here is Launch vote:
Kark at that point was voting No Lynch and was against a Zubz lynch. This was the last post from Launch before D1 ends.
At D2 start he post this:
He is saying that it was a mistake. He just misread Kalor as Kark. So who do you wanted to follow: Kark or Kalor?
Kark at that point was voting No Lynch and was against a Zubz lynch. This was the last post from Launch before D1 ends.
At D2 start he post this:
He is saying that it was a mistake. He just misread Kalor as Kark. So who do you wanted to follow: Kark or Kalor?
CornBurrito
Member
No real opinion on dusk, other than that I do not currently have reason to believe he is scum.
Apologies. I've been swamped with preparing family shenanigans and it's been eating up most of my attention.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I don't think scum was on the cewyn vote. It was very close with zubz and no lunch and since zubz flipped town, any bus vote could've swung it. We now know even the last votes on cewyn by zubz and min were by town. I think acohrs' vote was also close enough to be not a bus.
Also scum has hit two voters on that train.
The zubz turbo, seeing as monkey never had a final vote down, it may have been down to curb discussion and then off her in the night. Her reads list is a tad outdated.
Also scum has hit two voters on that train.
The zubz turbo, seeing as monkey never had a final vote down, it may have been down to curb discussion and then off her in the night. Her reads list is a tad outdated.
weemadarthur
Member
Kinda? Gafia 2 had a multi target poisoner.
I always vote for the scummiest person I see.
Zubz looked like a gambiter. Like nin, as I said. I didn't think the evidence pointed to his being scum, and I said so. There's no way I ever join a bandwagon just to join. I will always leave my vote where you can see who I think scum is, for the day when people want to try thinking before voting.
Day one cewyn lynch was a good result on a bad lynch. Voting off a player who is barely active when that's not their norm? A good idea. Voting off a player who is not meeting the minimum post requirement? Generally a bad idea. Each individual has a 70-80% chance of being town, which means getting a scum purely on the post count is a long shot at best (of course, we don't know if cewyn was active in scum chat, could be his strat was to look like getting replaced?)
I still say Achoo is scum, btw. I just...happen to not want to die, so, I'm voting for Kark. But I am happy to see Achoo or Launchpad go. Launchpad with his "let's kill the cop to punish bad play" attitude. Achoo who barely shows up although he normally has a lot to say.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Kark has 5/9 votes not even 24 hours into the day? You work fast.
Wee what do you think about Acohrs vote day 1? Because to me it's a really townie vote.
weemadarthur
Member
Actually, the timing of it was suspicious to me. He only voted for cewyn after Monkey and Zubz agreed together to vote for cewyn, and Monkey actually did it. It was pretty clear that nobody was gonna defend cewyn, so it was an excellent time to jump on a bus while claiming to look townie. (I also wondered about Monkey and Zubz at the end, but they've flipped).
CornBurrito
Member
Bullshit.
Zubz overwhelmingly looked like scum. You knew he wasn't scum because you're scum. Hence why you were able to so easily tell he was making a gambit. I don't believe a member of town would have reached your conclusion on Zubz.
Not lynching a non-active on D1? Town wins by being active. It is a good strategy especially since scum also lies low. You can't distinguish between scum lying low and inactive town. So a good move is to lynch low activity people since inactive town is still bad for town.
And yes, every individual has a high chance of being town. But you didn't vote No Lynch. You voted Achors... why? Why did the 70-80% chance not apply to him?
CornBurrito
Member
That's a good point. All of scum may have avoided voting for Cewyn. I'd say one MAX voted for him.
weemadarthur
Member
You're confusing two statements I made.
The 70-80% chance of a random individual being town is true when there is insufficient post content to evaluate.
I have evaluated Achoo's post content as being empty of meaning, not empty of post numbers. Look up at his most recent read post. He comments on 4 people, and the words sum up as "I dunno". That's a nothing post.
Regarding Zubz, he looked like a gambiter. Have you ever read a game with a gambiter? I've been in them. Karkador in Batman. Terrabyte in Princess. They do weird stuff in an effort to draw out scum, which hardly ever works, and makes town suspicious of them. Then they get voted out and town loses a member. It happens over and over.
Blargonaut
Banned
Personally, I'd start with acorns. Called the man out for staying away from the Zubz pile despite his cheering for it... right before he jumps on the Zubz pile... as the anvil to rac's turbohammer vote.
Yet, Corn, I think you're deliberately trying to draw attention away from the large pile, because all the scum's in it including yourself.
.
Yeah, I'm definitely thinking acohrs & CornBurrito are scum. The distances between your respective vote-targets just feel yuck-ranged for maximum "Me? With them? No". You two's votes just weave and bob in and out and around players. Also, Lone_Prodigy, but he's either super under-the-radar scum being mightily participant in the scum chat and not here, or else he's super-boring Town Vanilla like franconp. But I mainly scum-ship aCorn.
I'm very suspicious of Kalor, weemadarthur, melonrabbit and rac. I consider rac to be just below Lone_Prodigy in low-activity scumminess. Kalor and melonrabbit are roughly the same scum-alert status to me on my scum-alert radar. Their voting patterns feel like the trailing wake of scum's vessel; quick poster-presence(s) vote-skirmishing from the mindshare's perimeter.
Weemad stands out as the most likely Town-aligned pro-Town contributor, but from their posts thus far, I guts-feel the hovering of backstage consultants' should-I-say-this-and-thats, not to mention weemad's explicit statement of being against bandwagoning along with the actual staying-away from bandwagoning... that to me just shouts 'deliberate distance-keeping' a la acohrs but with more of a reserved sensibility than acohrs' goading delight. Plus weemad's recent statement alleging that going after low-activity players as a scum-hunting method, is worthless gambling...? That screams to me of protecting a team of mostly low-activity-type scummates, I'd say.
I'm inclined to believe Karkador isn't scum. He's just too nonchalant in his doom. Which admittedly could be a huge STATUS EFFECT: DESPAIR scumtell... or else highly PR-indicative; I mean, sometimes if not mostly, such blase equals Vanilla but I think not in this Kark's case. This game, he's been acting all smug about himself like he knows a secret. Might he really be the Arsonist as weemad alleges? At this point I feel Kark's willing to let any kind of Role-suspicion stick to his suit so he can rip off the massive suspicion all at once with his undoubtedly underwhelming defensive Role-claim, impending quickchange act. Karkador's simply allowing the increasing absurdity of your suspicions to congeal on him like a greasy layer, which he can then easily scrape as 1 whole icky mass of yuck, clean-off. Y'all got nothing on him and he knows it's all circumstantial.
If this pressure on him does keep up, I'm fully expecting Kark to claim as nothing else but an important Town PR; irregardless of it being the truth, by doing so he'll likely dispute the [existing?] Town Doctor's 100% Night-attention on me, thereby 50/50-fucking me over during the Nights to come while increasing his own survivability. Yes, I am selfish like I only BELIEVE Kark to be.
The way he's handled Arsonist discussion, the way he's handled disputing weemad's Doused claim; all of it just screams to me MASOCHIST KARKADOR. He wants everything you're giving him because his Role loves it. Am I inclined to believe he's Neutral? I'd say equal odds he's either Neutral or Vanilla (in which case, he's doing this for post-claim schadenfreude), with the big money pool on real Town PR. IMO, he's too cool to be scum.
sans TURBO, more on Kark and the D2 Doused dilemma later-ish, in which Blargonaut's opinion(s) may drastically differ because of CornBurrito
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Anyway, I don't think the fresh meats NeckToChicken and kitsunelaine are Mafia; if I had to tell you who feels scummier to me between them, though? Nope. Even I couldn't. You two gotta really tag-team spar someone so I can study your moves; might I suggest Fat4All or LaunchpadMcQ? Build character(s), spam interrogatives
Speaking of Fat4All, sry I can't read players who indulge me. My greatest weakness
CONCLUSION: With all this single-target trainwrecking, it absolutely feels like the kind of match where all the yuck's in the low-activity player base.
weemadarthur
Member
Except in princess, we DIDN'T vote out the gambiters.
We kept Terrabyte and cewyn, who both gambited heavily, and turned them into valuable town team members, and we pwned scum.
It's an option.
We kept Terrabyte and cewyn, who both gambited heavily, and turned them into valuable town team members, and we pwned scum.
It's an option.
Blargonaut
Banned
Is this what applying my mind to this game, feels like? No wonder you all avoid doing it
Actually no.
He voted for Cewyn when he was tied with no lynch and put him un the lead. Also Zubz (who we know was town) and Launch had only one vote less do he could have tied any of them.
That would mean that Acorhs could have prevented easily Cewyn's lynch. I don't think scum would have made a bus like that during day one, if Cewyn had a big lead could be but it was really close at that point. Also Cewyn was a scum switcher, a really useful role. I don't think they would bus a partner like that.
His vote makes me think he is town.
weemadarthur
Member
Blarg, you're misunderstanding my point too.
Possibly I have been unclear.
Low activity posters should be looked at. Their post content should be evaluated. Combining the two, they should be used to scum hunt.
A poster without enough activity to continue in the game is different. There's not enough content to evaluate. In my historical reading, these posters are very often vanilla town members who get ....bored(?) - I'm guessing at the reasoning here. It's occasionally true that a mafia member does it too. Basically, it seems like this sort of dropping out of a game has no alignment indicators attached. Therefore, the ratio of town/mafia dropouts is the same as the ratio of original role assignment. I have gotten this ratio from my reading in gafia, so it's not completely pulled from my ass.
Possibly I have been unclear.
Low activity posters should be looked at. Their post content should be evaluated. Combining the two, they should be used to scum hunt.
A poster without enough activity to continue in the game is different. There's not enough content to evaluate. In my historical reading, these posters are very often vanilla town members who get ....bored(?) - I'm guessing at the reasoning here. It's occasionally true that a mafia member does it too. Basically, it seems like this sort of dropping out of a game has no alignment indicators attached. Therefore, the ratio of town/mafia dropouts is the same as the ratio of original role assignment. I have gotten this ratio from my reading in gafia, so it's not completely pulled from my ass.
weemadarthur
Member
Monkey tied the vote at 4-4 ceewyn and NL, with Zubz promising to switch FROM NL to cewyn, making it 3-5.
Yes, there were a couple of people at 3 votes, but one more would A) not beat a 5 vote, and B) be really obvious. Whereas, a scum team that's paying good attention would jump in as early as possible to an inevitable lynch to look more town than the last voter.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Oh yeah, also voting out zubz yesterday when he claimed cop is not a good look. If it was a Thunderdome, why choose the claimed cop over the claimed night watchman?
I would agree with that, at least until the point when Blarg came out with a more convincing cop claim that explained his actions that day, at least in part. The only person who voted for Zubz between his cop claim and Blargs cop claim was CornBurrito.
Karkador is gambiting again here too, he hasn't revealed his findings yet though
You're pushing a false narrative that is self-fulfilling (if I become more active after your post then it's suspicious, if I maintain my current level of play then it's all suspicious), which is really frustrating. Especially linked with you saying that all I've made is nothing posts, when compared to others, who still haven't voted both days, makes me feel you're just tunneling on me based on an incorrect meta read...
isaacnukem
Member
I find it odd that wee and Karkador aren't going forward with the dance around the doused message thing.
Why odd?
isaacnukem
Member
Because it's an easy thing to do but it might reveal a lot. And I wasn't the only one who is amenable to the idea, a few other are too.
I think we should see this wee vs. kark thing to the end. Only one of them is doused.
I agree both have gone silent though, how would you recommend getting them talking again?