spyhunterzero
Member
Where was this when I had a cell. Wonder if they will get it to 100%.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Katawa Shoujo |OT| (VN, Free, Waifus, etc)
- Thread starter Dresden
- Start date
Where was this when I had a cell. Wonder if they will get it to 100%.
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Oh my blargh. iOZ pls
Chet Rippo
Member
That would probably depend on what they're going to do. A lot of the reason katawa shoujo became popular was because of it's weirdness.
I would say that the weirdness was the "hook" of the game but the quality and sensibility made it what it is. Considering that they are a "proven" team, I think they don't need a weird concept to work with and be successful. Actually, a less controversial subject would receive more attention from the usual media.
as long as they dont make it about something lame like batman
Chet Rippo
Member
But I'm sure Katawa got a lot of attention media wise because of it's weirdness really. Even if they're a known developer now, would game sites give it a chance at all? Normal VNs don't seem to get much attention outside it's fans.
I was thinking more on the lines of taking it seriously rather than just uniformed news bits. But yeah, you are right about the current state of VNs. I guess all we can do is wait and hope for the best.
This actually runs a lot better than I expected. I'm impressed!
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
It's gonna be about the oft misunderstood baka gaijin otaku. Think Welcome to the NHK meets Densha Otoko with shades of Rapelay and School Days for the "bad ends"
* Girugamesh expansion pack coming soon
spyhunterzero
Member
Thanks for reminding me, I have to go back to The Walking Dead. I just need the last two chapters and I'm done.
Wow, you gave up so soon Emi?
ComputerMKII
Banned
After finishing Lilly's route I started Hanako's. I'm in Act 4 and I'm very disappointed so far. It feels awkward and frustrating. I didn't expect Hanako to be such an unlikable character, in fact.
By the way, when Hanako said to Hisao
it was heartbreaking but that's exactly how I felt during my playthrough. I'll have to play more to see what Hisao's real feelings were, but
, unlike Lilly. When I played Lilly's route I somehow developed a crush on her (insofar as it's possible to love a fictional character) and playing Hanako's route only has confirmed those feelings.
The way I see it, Hanako is
I guess it's a good thing that I'm getting feels from her story too, but I didn't ask for anger and utter sadness.
She won't do anything except saying 'nothing...' to Hisao and looking absent. There doesn't seem to be any kind of connection between the two characters, their sleeping together felt like it came out of nowhere and the occasional presence of Lilly only makes Hanako's emptiness feel more obvious. I'm sorry that she has PTSD, depression and that her social life suffers because of it, but I understand the people who wouldn't bother putting up with her issues. I guess I'm one of them.
By the way, when Hanako said to Hisao
"All I ever was to you was... a useless person... Just someone... to protect. Someone like... a child."
I've never believed there was mutual attraction between them. What I can say for sure is that I've never felt anything for Hanako (except pity, despair and genuine helplessness)
The way I see it, Hanako is
nothing but a victim, a miserable person who has no control of her life and only reacts to what's happening around her, never taking decisions for herself. She seems to take some kind of twisted, nihilistic comfort in clinging to her past and isolating herself, and has no desire to improve her condition. She's the kind of character who I'd expect to be suicidal.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You aren't the first person to express that opinion. Its fairly common for people to feel like Hanako was better off in Lilly's route than her own.
Typographenia
Member
That's certainly how I felt at the end of the two paths with them. Hanako was the one I was most interested to see how it was handled, since she seemed to be the poster character I would always see attached to the project when something arose about it. That, or maybe she was just the most easily memorable from a glance. Regardless, I think she ended up being my least favorite route of the game when all was said and done. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't handled nearly as well as some of the other routes were.
I think Hanako's route is supposed to be like that. It's supposed to make you feel frustrated (so is Rin's, but in a different way). One of its main points is about how shallow his attraction to her is, and how awkward that makes their interaction. Lilly's route is a love story. Hanako's route is... not. Perhaps this is just an expectations thing? Have you read the other routes? Lilly's is by far the "sweetest" story, so you will be let down if you expect the same kind of experience from any of the other routes. Have you seen Hanako's
blowup scene yet?
There is, sort of. The thing is,
their attractions are very different
Hanako's attraction to Hisao is more of a desperate attempt to get someone to see her as a person--she thought that his interest in her was because of who she thinks she is and who she wants to be. However, Hisao's initial interest in Hanako was initially because she was cute and shy (aka moe*--we'll get back to this). She lets him into her life because she hopes that he will do what even her closest friend (Lilly) won't do--and that is to acknowledge her as a person, not as "that poor burned girl who needs help."
She even chafes under Lilly's doting, but she puts up with it because Lilly is pretty much the only other person who pays her any attention. You don't really see this side of her in Lilly's route, but I think it's still there. To quote an article that I believe was linked in this thread before, "She is angered by the pretenses her relationships with Lilly and Hisao are built on, and by the reason you probably played her route in the first place."
Seeing as the two of them are both pretty awkward, they misunderstand each other's attractions to each other. Depending on how you make choices during Hanako's route, Hisao either takes quite a while to figure out what is wrong with his approach to Hanako (good end), or he doesn't really figure it out at all (bad end). The sex scene in Hanako's route is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable because it's a mistake... a mistake on both their parts as they both misinterpret eachother's desires. I know you weren't talking about that scene in particular, but that scene should make you feel bad.
She even chafes under Lilly's doting, but she puts up with it because Lilly is pretty much the only other person who pays her any attention. You don't really see this side of her in Lilly's route, but I think it's still there. To quote an article that I believe was linked in this thread before, "She is angered by the pretenses her relationships with Lilly and Hisao are built on, and by the reason you probably played her route in the first place."
Seeing as the two of them are both pretty awkward, they misunderstand each other's attractions to each other. Depending on how you make choices during Hanako's route, Hisao either takes quite a while to figure out what is wrong with his approach to Hanako (good end), or he doesn't really figure it out at all (bad end). The sex scene in Hanako's route is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable because it's a mistake... a mistake on both their parts as they both misinterpret eachother's desires. I know you weren't talking about that scene in particular, but that scene should make you feel bad.
*I think the story does a great job of being a commentary on how dangerous the idea of white-knighting/moe/whatever-you-wanna-call-it really is when played straight.
Hanako's route is a trap. It's a trap for people who saw her as the poster character for the game and thought disgunbegud, etc. It's a trap for the moe eroge fan audience. It's a trap for players who see Hanako in the game and think "aw, she's shy and cute--maybe she's lonely and miserable, let's be her friend!"
This is true, which just serves to confirm how their relationship is doomed to be rocky. Hanako
lets herself stay stuck in the past because of fear and guilt. More than any of the other characters, I think, Hanako is a product of her environment, both in a meta and non-meta way. She doesn't make decisions for herself because she's afraid to say no. She's afraid that other people are going to give up on her if she doesn't agree with them. You quoted her quote about being seen as a child, and how she dislikes that, but the truth is she is she acts immature about some of these things and she knows it but doesn't want to deal with it. She wants to be her own person, but has never had motivation or encouragement to follow through on that, and (in good end) it's Hisao's (and by extension the player's) desire to understand Hanako and see her improve that becomes that encouragement for her. She wants to open up to people, but not until they've proven that they want to get to know her for reasons other than surface-level things--something that has really never happened in her life until the (good) end of the story.
The point is that you don't "fix" Hanako by being forceful or being possessive, you let her improve herself by letting her have some space and being a positive support. (Not to say that you personally are "doing it wrong" because I have no idea how you're approaching her character in your mind).
The point is that you don't "fix" Hanako by being forceful or being possessive, you let her improve herself by letting her have some space and being a positive support. (Not to say that you personally are "doing it wrong" because I have no idea how you're approaching her character in your mind).
...and now I feel like after typing all that, I'm not sure I'm qualified to even post it since it's been a few months since I read her story, so take my comments with a grain of salt, I guess.
Not sure I agree, since in Lilly's route, Hanako's issues are never really confronted.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
Omlet that is an intensely brilliant post. I totally agree with your interpretation and it has illuminated a lot of subtly in Hanako that will really change how I view her route from now on. I think Emi and Lily's routes are fairly straight forward (Lily a love story, Emi about self-improvement and willpower). Shizune's was going in a direction but got let down by bad writing due to the contributor leaving during development...the only other route I really struggle to understand to this day is Rin.
Do a post about Rin!
Do a post about Rin!
ComputerMKII
Banned
That's a great post, thanks omlet. I can't say I disagree with anything you've said.
You're certainly right about my expectations. In that point in my life, love is what I desire most, and I have a tendency to be attracted to mature (physically or mentally or both) women, so Lilly's route satisfied me thoroughly (I didn't even know the game all that well to begin with, which made the experience even better). It's like 4LS knew exactly (and better than I did) what I needed to see. I somehow expected all routes to follow a similar pattern story-wise but it's not a bad thing if they're different, after all.
I haven't seen anyone's neutral or bad ending yet, by the way.
Glad the you liked the post. I'm not even really a Hanako fan, but I find what that story is, or can be interpreted as being, to be really interesting and I've seen it get undeserved flak from people (not singling you out, Computer) who get up in arms about one element or another (that it betrays expectations, mostly) and miss the real take-away. One of the neat things about KS is how each route is doing something different and like you said you're getting feels you didn't expect or even really ask for, but dem feels can be the spark for some rewarding analysis of the stories and of yourself.
Hmm. Rin's my favorite route by far (though if we're picking favorite girls, that would be Emi), so there are a ton of things I could talk about in Rin's route, but that's a pretty tall order because having no specific direction or question to address makes it hard for me to just up and "do a post."
Must see bad/neutral branches/ends include Hanako, Rin, foreveralone
, and Shizune, in that order (of importance/impact on the overall route, not order in which you should read them). Emi's and Lilly's are alright. I feel like those two routes are so much more straightforward than the other three that their bad ends don't really impact the overall route much.
Hmm. Rin's my favorite route by far (though if we're picking favorite girls, that would be Emi), so there are a ton of things I could talk about in Rin's route, but that's a pretty tall order because having no specific direction or question to address makes it hard for me to just up and "do a post."
Must see bad/neutral branches/ends include Hanako, Rin, foreveralone
Kenji end / bad end for not picking any girl's route
ComputerMKII
Banned
True.
It struck me in a good way when Lilly (during her own route) said to Hisao
"I don't know... I feel like it's only now, when she's less close to me than ever, that she's truly finding herself."
I tend to get a lot of crushes on girls and get friendzoned, then depressed, just as often. When I played KS for the first time some days ago, I'd been in love with a girl for over a year but I knew she saw me as a friend and I had no chance with her, so I tried hard to get over her.
When I experienced Lilly's story, and when reading that line of dialogue in particular, it just clicked and made me realize I should stop basing my thoughts, acts and words on how girls would react, and stop feeling like my life isn't complete when I'm alone/when the girl I like is away. I realized I, too, should make the most of my solitude to really find myself. The minute after I read that line, I was no longer missing my crush. I also felt like my depression had gone - it's like I woke up from a nightmare that lasted for ten years.
When I experienced Lilly's story, and when reading that line of dialogue in particular, it just clicked and made me realize I should stop basing my thoughts, acts and words on how girls would react, and stop feeling like my life isn't complete when I'm alone/when the girl I like is away. I realized I, too, should make the most of my solitude to really find myself. The minute after I read that line, I was no longer missing my crush. I also felt like my depression had gone - it's like I woke up from a nightmare that lasted for ten years.
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
They should totally make a dating site for people into KS. Katawa Shounen Minna. A site for the socially and emotionally crippled to connect over their love of the seminal VN.
happy to hear it Computer. All the best to you in 2013
ComputerMKII
Banned
How popular is KS among girls?
Thanks a lot 2013 couldn't have started any better. Happy new year!
2013 couldn't have started any better. Happy new year!Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
I'm not sure, it has all the elements that would cater to girls' interests, but hell, I don't know how many women in general are fans of the VN/ADV genre. Maybe more than a few when it's got characters like April Ryan, and writers like Jane Jensen and Christine LoveHow popular is KS among girls?
Thanks a lot
I don't know any girls that like it besides me
I am simultaneously very curious to know what my anime-watching bookworm sister would think of KS (Rin route in particular) and too chicken to try to talk her into trying it.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Same thing, except my (older) sister isn't really into anime. I have successfully converted her to The Walking Dead (the game) and Game of Thrones, though, so I know she's OK with adult material and she might enjoy the feels. I just can't find a way to explain her what KS is and convince her to play it.
Except in my case I wrote a pretty lengthy blog post about KS and I know my sister stops by my blog sometimes. I have no idea if she read the post or not. I'm not about to ask. I'm not sure if that would make the conversation more strange or less strange...
Your sister sounds awesome. I'm trying to turn my sister into more of a nerd and it's not working
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Wow, I check the thread after a week or so and it fucking explodes with activity!
Good to hear 4LS is still active. I look forward to their next project.
Good to hear 4LS is still active. I look forward to their next project.
Chet Rippo
Member
I don't know any girls that like it besides me
What about Kazzy? She at least played it I think.
I don't really recall her playing it. Did Palutena?
Chet Rippo
Member
I remember her talking about it a little bit not too long ago. I don't know about Palutena. I thought she did, but I don't know.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Just downloaded this and started playing.
So, what to expect?
So, what to expect?
Weeping Pickle
Axelstream
Member
Dang, it's surprising to see this thread still floating around after a whole year. Good stuff, this game deserves it. Great to read the impressions still coming in -- and awesome to read about your experience, Computer.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Good since I am a fan of emotionally charged stuff too!
Gonna post impression later, although this thread is pretty much dead already >__> I am way too late for this I guess.
Chet Rippo
Member
I read the thread all the time, I just didn't have much to say lately.
Emotional roller coaster or blank stare of "why is this so popular" confusion. Depends completely on how and how much you can relate to the stories and/or your interest in the meta layer of the writing.
Wyndstryker
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ciJOagr4x6g
Day9's Katawa Shoujo's Metadating stuff on live as of this post!
Day9's Katawa Shoujo's Metadating stuff on live as of this post!
Crazy talk, Lilly is perfection.
Chet Rippo
Member
I like you.
Rin's route man. Just went back to get the other endings and oh good lord I forgot how brain bending this route could be. It's hard to get my head around all of it.
For some reason I found myself relating to Rin waaaaay more this time around than I did last time. It's made me think about a lot of things, and all that self reflection is frankly exhausting. It also makes me want to get back into doing art.
Christ, I already played through this route once, why is it still doing this to me?
For some reason I found myself relating to Rin waaaaay more this time around than I did last time. It's made me think about a lot of things, and all that self reflection is frankly exhausting. It also makes me want to get back into doing art.
Christ, I already played through this route once, why is it still doing this to me?
Chet Rippo
Member
Because Rin's the best!
You started out right but you seem to have made some mistakes with the rest. The correct order is as follows:
Routes -
Rin > Emi > Lilly > Hanako > Shizune
Girls -
Emi > Rin > Lilly > Wahaha > Shizune > Hanako