I'm probably more hyped than anyone here, but I've accepted the Sterling review is probably most accurate. I don't look at the number (some use the whole 10-point scale, others don't, so what's the point), but I do look at the reasons, and his reasons match up with the reasons in other reviews and seem sound. One's love of this game will basically boil down to if they adapt to the unusual control scheme, and if the game convinces them that such a control scheme was merited in the first place. As Sterling notes, it's rather telling Nintendo bundled a stand accessory with every unit. It also says a lot about how much clout Sakurai must have if Iwata will sooner trust him and incur extra costs making accessories, instead of simply telling him to go back to the drawing board and rework the controls.
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Kid Icarus Uprising |OT| On a Wing and a Prayer
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Sigismundo
Member
Because if he did that would cut down his negative press/ad revenue.
They've got Jonathan Holmes, so Sterling can write all the shit he wants, I don't care, they're good in my book.
fabricated backlash
Member
Is the deadzone and unresponsive aiming on the ground still in the final game? If so, the game is a no go for me. All the demos I've played were horrible to control on the ground but amazing during flight.
Why on earth would someone include a deadzone for stylus aiming?
Why on earth would someone include a deadzone for stylus aiming?
I don't think he's doing this for hits, and I find it ridiculous when every negative review is dismissed as such. He gave reasons for what he liked, and he gave reasons for what he didn't like. It's simply how he feels -- period.
As for options, I think it's implied that no amount of tweaking will make enough difference to fix the controls, just as the stand doesn't make enough difference (and Rich at IGN said the thumb strap doesn't help either). Just be ready to take it slow and adapt. The content seems worth it, but will require us to acclimate.
I think I'll start in the training room, walking and then running in circles, learning how to pan and pivot the camera. I'll try to get it down so I don't dodge off a cliff into a chasm. It sounds like the control issues are trifold: 1) pain in the left hand from the "Icarus claw;" 2) a somewhat clumsy manner of movement; and 3) camera control, getting a bead on targets, etc. In the end, the one most difficult to adjust to is probably the first one, the physical pain. Only time will tell...
Better than trying to support the weight of the 3DS with one hand, stylus in the other, all while trying to keep the 3D in-line.
ashbash159
Member
I haven't been following this game at all, but it seems people are getting pretty excited about it.
I was wondering how left-handed people play this game. I played it before the 3DS came out and obviously had a lot of trouble playing it.
I was wondering how left-handed people play this game. I played it before the 3DS came out and obviously had a lot of trouble playing it.
Demon Lizardman
Banned
I agree with some stuff that Jim says, but if her forces people to not buy the game without them trying it out with themselves with a demo at a store or something, there is a problem then. He can spout out how much he likes or dislikes a game, but if one of his hardcore fans says "Even though I haven't tried out the game, I'M NOT GONNA BUT IT!" then I just don't fin that acceptable. Try it to see if you like it.
GhostTrick
Banned
Lulz. Read the review again. Especially the part where he says that Project Sora put the stylus control scheme at any cost. Althought there's other control schemes......
Smashkirby
Member
I'm trying button movement first to see how much that will limit me. I'm not afraid of the
controls, i just dont want them to become the reason I can't try a high difficulty or why I just cant seem to win online.
As long as the turning sensitivity allows me to twirl around correctly, I think its fine.
This is like just learning to play Hunters all over again.
And I mis-understood that comment, lol.
I can sort of understand this, much in the same way people complained about MHP3rd and its control scheme that you have to develop a "claw" to play properly.
But it's not a bad game, it's just made the choice to do it this way. Sterling does not like it, which is why he blogs about it. However Icarus isnt bad because of a slightly uncomfortable control scheme in much the same way Monster Hunter isnt a bad game in the same way.
I hope people judge it on the merits on how fun it is to play, rather than how uncomfortable the game is after six hours of consecutive play.
But it's not a bad game, it's just made the choice to do it this way. Sterling does not like it, which is why he blogs about it. However Icarus isnt bad because of a slightly uncomfortable control scheme in much the same way Monster Hunter isnt a bad game in the same way.
I hope people judge it on the merits on how fun it is to play, rather than how uncomfortable the game is after six hours of consecutive play.
But as he explains, the other controls are broken attempts to fix the original controls:
No one has said the controls are good so far. No one. The rest of the game looks absolutely worthwhile, though, so my hope is that this is at least easier to control than an old-school survival horror title with tank controls. It looks like it surpasses that, at least. My main concern, then, is comfort. I'm just eager to finally try the game at this point and see for myself. I want to get past this control obstacle so I can fully appreciate the amazing comeback of all these characters (and introduction of new ones).Jim Sterling said:
MetalGuardian
Banned
I just read that this Sterling bloke gave MK7 a 5/10, lololol
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I'm using his 5/10's as a buyer's guide for game's that I'm interested in. I played MK7 for about 40 hours so it seems to be working out so far!
I'd be more interested to see the reactions of everyone here to the reasons, rather than the arbitrary meaningless numbers. The things Sterling listed as problems are also listed as problems by the other reviewers. He also lists the same strengths.
In other words, he's probably not off-base here. So, we should do ourselves a favor and expect the controls to be tough. Then we may be delightfully surprised if they turn out to be easier, or at least we won't be crestfallen if they're, in fact, tough.
Curb your expectations, in other words. It would be a shame to see a major backlash when we've had plenty of warning.
In other words, he's probably not off-base here. So, we should do ourselves a favor and expect the controls to be tough. Then we may be delightfully surprised if they turn out to be easier, or at least we won't be crestfallen if they're, in fact, tough.
Curb your expectations, in other words. It would be a shame to see a major backlash when we've had plenty of warning.
GhostTrick
Banned
Oh come on. "fix the original controls". What a bunch of crazyness. I had no problems with Metroid Prime Hunters. Lots of people had no problems. Other controls are broken ? Let's explain why. Because, there's no problem with holding the console. Maybe the others control scheme are too slow ? Because this game was made to be nervous, and use the stylus for his accuracy. It's like saying all FPS on consoles are broken, because they control way better with keyboard. It's like saying all fighting games are broken without arcade stick. It's like saying all racing games won't work without a driving wheel.
Haha, looks like I may have overshot my prediction of 79 Metascore! Everyone here already saw these low-ish reviews coming, anyway. It's quite obvious to any casual onlooker why critics would have major problems with this game.
I think it's really a situation where you need to understand where its drawbacks lie and compensate for them in both your expectations of the game and how you play it. That's part of my problem with reviews, in general, as most of them play their games in a sort of blind bubble.
For most of us, I imagine, when we buy most games, we've already done enough research to understand how to get the most out of it. I suppose you could consider that a "flaw" but that assumes that a game isn't a piece of interactive entertainment whose purpose it is to provide a good experience. If you can have a better one by putting in a little effort, why wouldn't you?
I think it's really a situation where you need to understand where its drawbacks lie and compensate for them in both your expectations of the game and how you play it. That's part of my problem with reviews, in general, as most of them play their games in a sort of blind bubble.
For most of us, I imagine, when we buy most games, we've already done enough research to understand how to get the most out of it. I suppose you could consider that a "flaw" but that assumes that a game isn't a piece of interactive entertainment whose purpose it is to provide a good experience. If you can have a better one by putting in a little effort, why wouldn't you?
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Don't forget his 10/10 for Killzone 3. In his opinion the perfect FPS, which alone is laughable (and I really liked the game), but he stated that the weak point of this game were the attempted Move controls and that he stopped playing the mp after a week or two because he felt handicapped compared to the Move players sticking to DS3. Move controls made Killzone 3 the best controlled FPS I EVER played on consoles. Sterling simply has NO CLUE when it comes to skill based gaming.
An Owl With Knees
Banned
The last few posts you've made have been quite dismissive of legitimate understanding of Sterling's review, so I'm not sure what else you desire.
I have no opinion on Jim Sterling - the review still stands as completely valid, logical and similar to the consensus. Don't let your eyes cloud from the score.
GhostTrick
Banned
I know it's not going to be as comfortable as a dual analog control scheme, but at least you'll need to aim faster and with more precision than dual analog allows for.
It's a tradeoff that I think I'll be OK with, I'm not a fan of dumbed down enemy patterns in games made with stick aiming in mind.
It's a tradeoff that I think I'll be OK with, I'm not a fan of dumbed down enemy patterns in games made with stick aiming in mind.
An Owl With Knees
Banned
Hmm...
Yes?
What constitutes a 'low-level' review in your book? One persons legitimate concerns and issues with the game? You're not making much sense. It seems like you don't want to accept the fact that he has issues with the controls - certainly enough, as Neiteio noted - to skew his judgement of the overall game. Various other people will have the same experience.
Which is completely fine.
TheUnknownForce
Member
So in the end it sounds like the only issue is ground controls. I just wonder why they didn't have the time to implement the dual-stick scheme. I bet if they had that, it would have fixed most of people's concerns.
Still, looks brilliant in many other ways. The scores will mostly reflect on how well the reviewer took to the controls.
Still, looks brilliant in many other ways. The scores will mostly reflect on how well the reviewer took to the controls.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Just popping in to suggest invoking the Paul Anka effect with regards to yet another Destructoid review that doesn't actually function as a traditional game review
sonikokaruto
Banned
To everyone complaining about horrid controls: I refer you to monster hunter on the psp.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Right-- there are two perspectives here, neither of which is incorrect.
One camp says the game shouldn't require the player to suffer in order to play it properly. The other camp says you are provided with the optimal scheme to maximize potential "skill"; you just need to put in the effort to be good at it.
The former is a relatively casual notion, while the latter more hardcore. They're just different design philosophies.
An Owl With Knees
Banned
You're welcome.
GhostTrick
Banned
I don't accept the fact to spit on the game because he didn't took the time to master the controls. So, when a game isn't easy, it's a good reason to spit on it ? If a game isn't just about "one button = doing everything", there's issues ?
GhostTrick
Banned
But the game is supposed to works with the stylus. I don't think you'll get the accuracy and this nervous gameplay with a dual-stick scheme.
twentytwo22
Member
My impressions after two hours:
-Nostalgic graphics/sounds/screens/enemies/more are awesome. Won't spoil what they are, but they are cool.
-Music sounds nice, but so far Pit and Paltena are jabbering non-stop throughout every level. Can't get a feel for it as well as I'd like (yet).
-I've gotten used to the air controls -- they are alright. The ground controls seem really bad. I'm a semi-ambidexterous left-hander, so it might be more a problem with me than anything -- I tried to customize it every which way (including the add-on slide pad, which felt so weird), but ended up just going back to the defaults and doing my best. The controls are going to be a serious point of contention with this game -- I can see some people having no issues, and others will be up-in-arms
-Overall, the game is very fun. Lots of things to shoot for (a big board with tons of goals, and so far I've already got many different weapons to mess around with). Haven't touched anything but the single player yet, but the menus, modes, etc have that very Sakurai-feel to them (you'll see what I mean when you play it).
-Nostalgic graphics/sounds/screens/enemies/more are awesome. Won't spoil what they are, but they are cool.
-Music sounds nice, but so far Pit and Paltena are jabbering non-stop throughout every level. Can't get a feel for it as well as I'd like (yet).
-I've gotten used to the air controls -- they are alright. The ground controls seem really bad. I'm a semi-ambidexterous left-hander, so it might be more a problem with me than anything -- I tried to customize it every which way (including the add-on slide pad, which felt so weird), but ended up just going back to the defaults and doing my best. The controls are going to be a serious point of contention with this game -- I can see some people having no issues, and others will be up-in-arms
-Overall, the game is very fun. Lots of things to shoot for (a big board with tons of goals, and so far I've already got many different weapons to mess around with). Haven't touched anything but the single player yet, but the menus, modes, etc have that very Sakurai-feel to them (you'll see what I mean when you play it).
An Owl With Knees
Banned
Dude, you're completely missing the point, so I won't spend much more time spelling it out.
Do you have to assume he didn't take the time to master the controls? When each review so far has mentioned discomfort (to varying degrees)? No. Do you have to turn this into a games content being 'easy' or 'hard' - when it had no baring on the review? No. Do you have to imply that he wants 'one button to do everything'? No.
You're sensationalizing. I know it can be fun, but come on now Mister!
Almost every single review is bashing the ground controls. Sterling hated them and loved the flying stuff. His score actually fits really well in that case. He gave it a 5 representing that he felt one portion was near perfect and the other was terrible. If Sterling didn't think the rest of the game could make up for the ground controls, to bring it above average, then who are we to bash his thoughts?
GhostTrick
Banned
Yes, I have to assume he didn't took time to play the game. And guess what ? It's not the first time that this guy makes a review without finishing a game. You can play Devil's Advocate if you want. But his review is full of shit.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
3. Metroid Prime Hunters style; destroys your hands in the first few days (DAYS, not hours), but then you adapt, because you still want to play the game as it is good.
I'm not saying it's a good thing that the game gives cramps, etc, mind you.
I'm just thinking that reviewers get their games for free and whine if they don't like controls in the first few minutes -- players pay for the game and, if they really like it, can do amazing things.P)
I'm left handed and i adapted to right handed controls for The Rolling Western!
Really? I had absolutely no problem with MPH, I thought it was one of the best control schemes on the DS, so I guess this game will control just fine for me
Ghost Trick is in denial there may be some serious problems with the controls, as evidenced by every review so far.
From Game Informer:
From Game Informer:
Just accept it and be ready to try and adjust. I'm sure the rest of the game is worth it. Just expect playing in short bursts, with frequent breaks, and taking a long time to adjust to the controls so that they're functional. Expect any more and many people will be disappointed.Game Informer said:
An Owl With Knees
Banned
Eloquent point with substantial evidence. Appreciate it.
GhostTrick
Banned
Denial ? Oh come on... This control scheme is just so much better than any dual stick gameplay. If people keeps complaining, good for them. Let's give them two buttons to do everything, they'll be happy.