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Kill la Kill |OT|
- Thread starter Crash Station
- Start date
Mako's mother finally sees the light
Episode 19:
Good transition episode and while it does make sense for Ryuuko to make that decision based on what's happened, she needs to get over herself and move on. Poor Senketsu...
The scenes with Mako's mom had me rolling.
Good transition episode and while it does make sense for Ryuuko to make that decision based on what's happened, she needs to get over herself and move on. Poor Senketsu...
Nonon for nudist prez. Mako for vice prez.
The scenes with Mako's mom had me rolling.
Nothing will ever be as bad as the Legend of Korra thread in this regard. People fucking crucified that show.
victreeb3l
Member
To be fair Korra's writing has been absolutely atrocious, minus a few great episodes.
As it should have been after the god awful story.
Jex
Member
Two things:
- Firstly, there are a number of anime communities elsewhere on the internet where negative discourse or critical discourse basically doesn't exist. They almost seem allergic to criticism.
- Secondly, if you were to take GAF as a whole (because generalisations are fun) you'd probably notice that, in general, people tend to critically inspect the films they watch, the music they listen too, the TV shows they see, the books they read and the games they play. It's not really unique to the discussions surrounding anime.
I essentially agree with this. While the show is certainly pretty entertaining right now you can make a solid argument that a lot of time earlier in the show was 'wasted' in that it neither developed the characters or moved the story. An 'efficient' storyteller could have arrived at where we are right now in less than 19 episodes.
Mako-Ryuko could still happen.
The show did have a problem with stalling on the progression of the plot. I think the show will be more enjoyable to people who can binge through it in one go, where the that whole King of the Hill sub"plot" is watched in an hour instead of a month.
Who says we want an "efficient" storyteller? How would that even happen under the relative rigidity of anime production schedules?
RockTurtle
Member
well to be honest, the beginning of the show was heading towards a more "episodic" track
Jex
Member
Good questions. To respond in order:
You'll notice I put efficient storyteller in ' ' because I wasn't suggesting that all stories should be told in the most efficient way possible (as nebulous as that concept is). By efficient storytelling I supposing I'm thinking about more than when you arrive at crucial story beats, I'm also thinking about the the overall pacing and flow of the story. When your story has solid pacing and there's a sense of progress which is satisfying. In an action series that generally involves finding and fighting a bad guy, only to discover there's a badder guy to fight. It's pretty simple in that regard.
In the case of Kill la Kill it seems we've finally arrived at what you might consider 'the main' thrust of the story and it's taken a while. While the first half of the show did set up the characters and the scenario it also devoted a lot of time to rather pointless fight sequences against scrubs, Ryuko pointing her blade at Satsuki but doing nothing, and other fluff. Fun fluff, but fluff nevertheless which led me to think "when is this show actually going to kick off?" e.g. when will something of consequence happen. When where there actually be an arc that matters? Even all the character development that occurred for the cast was, by and large, paper thin.
There's nothing wrong from having a semi-episodic series which then develops into a major story arc if you actually spend that episodic phase effectively developing a set of characters but I don't think they achieved that at all.
Worse, the earlier episodes weren't truly episodic because it had spurts and stops of development but it lacked a solid rhythm. Fairly important story stuff happened during the first half of the series but it rarely felt satisfying because the pacing was off. Suddenly the viewer was supposed to care about X Y and Z but without adequate set up either in terms of tone or character work most of the events that occurred lacked impact.
The series has currently found a solid footing because a lot has happened very, very quickly and concepts the series danced around for ages got explained in an exposition dump that lasted a couple of minutes which finally gave the series a clear sense of direction. One of the problems with the earlier school focused content was that the entire thing felt like a really obvious introductory phase that we would eventually transition out of however it went on for too long and ended up being fairly stale.
If you look at another Imaishi directed / Nakashima composed series you see an entirely different story. With Gurren Lagann they really delivered a series which excellent pacing and structure. That show was divided up into a series of clear arcs that developed and expanded exponentially, growing upon the content that had come before and always taking the viewer to see bigger, crazier things with (importantly) higher stakes.
With regards to your question and tight production schedules, this kind of overall story structure question is the kind of thing you should be sorting out during your pre-production and it really felt like they spent some time thinking about this show before it got rolling.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Fiber insertion
oh, right. totally forgot about that.
Lufiaddict
Member
At first I was annoyed by Ryuko's
And instead of Satsuki blowing up the stadium, I would have prefered this:
new bout of anger, but now I don't think she's to blame for that one: it's probably the intended effect of the Covers' music. I suppose it amplified all her negative emotions. Ragyo certainly didn't want to just wake her up (did she even know that she was in a coma?): she wanted to make sure that she would recklessly come at her and fall in her trap.
And instead of Satsuki blowing up the stadium, I would have prefered this:
Aikuro incapacitates Ragyo with the special bullet (the one he almost fired at berserk Ryuko in episode 12). The Nudists grab Ryuko and run away while the Elite Four go fetch Satsuki, only to be stopped by Nui and her "mignon prêt-à-porter". They quickly manage to dispatch the clones and escape, only to realize that the Satsuki they saved is just a doll and that Nui holds the true Satsuki. They try to go back but they must give up as Ragyo is already recovering.
mightynine
Member
That was my thought at first too, the only problem with that is why would Ragyo play music that would lead Ryuko to cause people to be freed from their Covers? (Though the reaction it got out of Gamagoori was excellent.)
Ryuko being all "NAH MAN" is a part of Ragyo's/The Writer's plan to get her inside the giant suit, as you probably can't wear a Kamui over another Kamui. I think all those fibers sticking out of her weren't her life fibers being pulled out but multiple suits picking her up.
Even better!
Lufiaddict
Member
You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs!
It sure was. I bet Iori sported the same expression!
Or maybe the giant suit itself picking her up (if there's room for two in it, as some suggested).
ohhhhh myyyyyyyyy goooooooooodddddddddddddd
Especially after ATLA. What a fall from grace, jesus.
Kill la Kill 19
The "We need to save money" episode. Though that doesn't mean it was a bad episode. A lot of fun character dynamics occurred, a lot of hilarious subtle moments, which works well for low-budget episodes, and the plot quickly moved along. Trigger, save that money for hopefully epic final episodes. I need another 'Gurren Lagann' OMFG moment.
The "We need to save money" episode. Though that doesn't mean it was a bad episode. A lot of fun character dynamics occurred, a lot of hilarious subtle moments, which works well for low-budget episodes, and the plot quickly moved along. Trigger, save that money for hopefully epic final episodes. I need another 'Gurren Lagann' OMFG moment.
mightynine
Member
Yeah, about that...(spoilered just because it talks about the ending of TTGL)
Was the only one that, while watching the end of TTGL, had the ever growing stakes kind of...I'm not sure how to put this, I guess give me pause? As I fired up the final battle, at first I was ready for what appeared to be an matchup that was truly out of this world, but then a stray thought popped into my head.
"Man, remember when this show was a couple of folks messing around at a hot spring?"
All of a sudden, the fact that we're tossing around spiral galaxies kind of took me out of the show, because it had grown to this level from one that was just as fun to watch, but a little more grounded, at least in the rules of that world. I guess for me stacking higher and higher and higher and HIGHER stakes with a Russian Doll on steroids as GL's final form eventually just became so much that it kind of dulled the impact of the ending.
That's why I like how KLK has grown the stakes (and while I can see where people complain about pacing, I've never really had a problem with it) and given us OMFG moments recently, but kept it fairly grounded - well, as grounded as you can get in its world.
"Man, remember when this show was a couple of folks messing around at a hot spring?"
All of a sudden, the fact that we're tossing around spiral galaxies kind of took me out of the show, because it had grown to this level from one that was just as fun to watch, but a little more grounded, at least in the rules of that world. I guess for me stacking higher and higher and higher and HIGHER stakes with a Russian Doll on steroids as GL's final form eventually just became so much that it kind of dulled the impact of the ending.
That's why I like how KLK has grown the stakes (and while I can see where people complain about pacing, I've never really had a problem with it) and given us OMFG moments recently, but kept it fairly grounded - well, as grounded as you can get in its world.
Sorry for the black bar attack.
I don't think that anyone who worked on that is actively working on this, or that their respective aims are remotely comparable.
Basically, I feel like Kill la Kill simply wants to have its cake and eat it as far as fanservice is concerned.
Which is fine by me, but I strongly doubt there's any need to find any "deconstructive" meaning behind it.
I do believe the show is currently entertaining enough to make this a non-issue though.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I really liked the new episode even if I'm sick of
Ryuko always losing her way.
The spanking was awkward as fuck, which means they did a great job.
RockTurtle
Member
so like i was saiyajin, I think satsuki might have a thing for gamamori.
So there is going to be a Battle between Satsuki and Mako for his affections?
heliosRAzi
Banned
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
hahaha
Ok, not to single you out here, but I find it extremely concerning how many people have viewed what Ragyo does to Satsuki and don't come away with the most obvious conclusion.
She's bad. Her interactions with her daughter are supposed to be creepy. We're not supposed to approve. It's meant to be additional fuel for the audience's dislike. It's just like how the asylum worker licks Sarah Connor's face in T2 before we see her bust his kneecaps open later, or any other example of the bad guy displaying untoward sexual tension.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Jex
Member
Too deep for me.
Crash Station
Member
Nah, it's fanservice because everything is fanservice! There isn't a single square inch of art in this show that isn't fanservice! The walls are fanservice, the doors are fanservice, the goddamn moon is fuckin fanservice and we never even see it!
Lord Ghirahim
Member
I wonder how shinrakōketsu is written. 「神裸高潔」? 「神裸纐纈」?...「神裸纐血」? 
Kamui is 「神衣」 (God Cloth), so 「神裸」 (Divine Nudity) is more likely than the usual「森羅」 I think.　「纐纈」 seems to mean kanoko shibori, so it fits into the series' theme. 「神裸纐血」 would be the punniest option, since they're planning to sacrifice Satsuki to the new Kamui.
Kamui is 「神衣」 (God Cloth), so 「神裸」 (Divine Nudity) is more likely than the usual「森羅」 I think.　「纐纈」 seems to mean kanoko shibori, so it fits into the series' theme. 「神裸纐血」 would be the punniest option, since they're planning to sacrifice Satsuki to the new Kamui.
Turin Turambar
Member
Even if we establish Ragyo as "bad", which is pretty clear here, how it makes sense for a mother to start molesting her daughter? Even for an evil mother? And she did it before she discovered the treason. That's less "bad" and more "fanservicey".
*facepalm*
RockTurtle
Member
bad guys do bad things to establish that they are bad.
this is starting to reach a slight level of detachment from suspension of belief. i feel this comic is rather relevant to this discussion:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2453#comic
Ok, let's actually tie things together.
Ragyo doesn't view her offspring as family, only product. Satsuki isn't viewed in normal human terms, thus demonstrating her mother's inhumanity. Sexual abuse also crosses significant personal boundaries and puts Satsuki in an environment where she doesn't even have full control of what happens to her body despite her absolutely overwhelming and commanding presence shown elsewhere. It's oppressive, and in a way seen only by her. This is part of her struggle, while we've had front row seats to Ryuko's struggle all along.
Ragyo doesn't view her offspring as family, only product. Satsuki isn't viewed in normal human terms, thus demonstrating her mother's inhumanity. Sexual abuse also crosses significant personal boundaries and puts Satsuki in an environment where she doesn't even have full control of what happens to her body despite her absolutely overwhelming and commanding presence shown elsewhere. It's oppressive, and in a way seen only by her. This is part of her struggle, while we've had front row seats to Ryuko's struggle all along.
Yeah by this point, its in no way fanservice. It's meant to be an absolutely detestful act and really illustrate the kind of person Ragyo is.
It sure is an odd argument. People beating off to it doesn't necessarily make it fanservice, but I'm not going to argue about it.
Dotonbori Robo.
She's kindddddd of the worst.
Mako's the best.
She's the worst.
Poor Senketsu-chan.
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