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Killer Instinct |OT| New Look! New Moves! Same Killer Grooves!

SegaShack

Member
Yeah, the AI in arcade mode is really difficult, I was playing on Easy and had some trouble. The guys on the Microsoft Stream last week couldn't beat medium difficulty during the stream.
I really don't know what they did but it just comes across as rigged AI to me. Before I had absolutely no issues with the AI on Hard and Killer. It is just like a crap shoot hoping they don't block, or counter any move you do, and if you do get a hit on them they will break your combo always.

Before the higher difficulty AI was beatable but challenging and fast, this just seems like a rushed way to amp up the difficulty. The reaction time and guessing the computers do on "Hard" or towards the end of "Normal" in arcade mode is too perfect.

I felt more frustrated and annoyed than challenged, someone I never thought I'd say about this game.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
What happened with the AI? Before it felt like it was actually a player who could have flaws. I wasn't just rusty in this game. To make sure I went online and I was able to beat 10 people in a row. I can beat Eyedol in KI Classic in a few tries while the arcade mode gets rediculous with the difficulty.

Eh, the only thing it felt to me was overly reliant on blocking. I want them to slip up more, and do more unsafe things, so the game can MOVE some. But the little flourishes of personality (Each character abusing different things, occasional taunts, doing manuals) make it feel kind of pleasant overall. A.I. Will always be artificial, and I think the way it plays VS the way we've learned to play VS humans eventually outpace each other.

For all the time it took to release story mode I feel that it is a joke. Fighting all they players on stages that already exist, along with small text basesd cutscenes made up of assets that already exists is just cheap. I say this as someone who loves this game, but I am very let down by the story mode, it cheapens a high quality experience.

Considering that we've seen the scheduele leading up to this content with chats with the devs almost each week, I don't think anyone who'se paid attention online should be surprised by the overall quality of the mode. For what it is right now, this is basically a high-budget XBLA game. That's had it's developers yanked out from under it once they've finally been able to settle in with the game. That's not got dev assistance coming from a company we've barely seen ever make their own game.

I think it's a good start, and a reminder of what this product truly is; a main-stream big game that gets to grow while we play it, rather than a final product released all at once. If they come through with the growth and ideas they hint at, I don't mind having a slightly lacking arcade / story hybrid for what will ultimately be a few short months compared to the life of the full product.

I do wonder what changed along the way, though. They said early on there'd be no alt endings, now we're sitting on 3 per character. I would have been much more bummed if we got endings like this, and only had one per character, and no hidden Shadow Jago with a few new moves + a rough version of Season 2 ultimates running on him.
 

.la1n

Member
I'm getting SNK boss vibes from Shadow Jago...

SNK Bosses are nightmare fuel.

I like the story mode, the endings for each character are well done. We knew all along they were just going to be short text based endings, what is impressive is they were able to hide the fact that we were getting three per character, that is a great throw back to KI 2. I really enjoy playing as Fulgore but I am not real big on meter management characters so I probably won't use him a lot. His stage is pretty nice as is the music but I am still partial to Spinal being the best stage / music we have gotten so far.

The patch does not seem to have broken anything significant which is always a bonus. The lobbies are working fine for me as are the normal online matches. Online lag is still worse now than it was in the original release but no worse than it has been the last few updates.

Look forward to seeing what else they have going forward. I have noticed that the A.I. seems noticeably more difficult now than it was previously playing Survival in past patches / updates. They may want to look into tuning that a little bit. A challenge is fine but not this AI psychic ability on medium difficulty.
 

dankir

Member
Are the achievements still glitchy? I completed a bunch of Fulgore achievements last night and looks like several didn't unlock :(
 

.la1n

Member
That would be awesome! At least we know they are likely coming for all if they designed the ultimate for one.

Obviously having them implemented for everyone would have a followed an official statement but it is nice to know they are working on them for Season 2.
 

SegaShack

Member
Eh, the only thing it felt to me was overly reliant on blocking. I want them to slip up more, and do more unsafe things, so the game can MOVE some. But the little flourishes of personality (Each character abusing different things, occasional taunts, doing manuals) make it feel kind of pleasant overall. A.I. Will always be artificial, and I think the way it plays VS the way we've learned to play VS humans eventually outpace each other.



Considering that we've seen the scheduele leading up to this content with chats with the devs almost each week, I don't think anyone who'se paid attention online should be surprised by the overall quality of the mode. For what it is right now, this is basically a high-budget XBLA game. That's had it's developers yanked out from under it once they've finally been able to settle in with the game. That's not got dev assistance coming from a company we've barely seen ever make their own game.

I think it's a good start, and a reminder of what this product truly is; a main-stream big game that gets to grow while we play it, rather than a final product released all at once. If they come through with the growth and ideas they hint at, I don't mind having a slightly lacking arcade / story hybrid for what will ultimately be a few short months compared to the life of the full product.

I do wonder what changed along the way, though. They said early on there'd be no alt endings, now we're sitting on 3 per character. I would have been much more bummed if we got endings like this, and only had one per character, and no hidden Shadow Jago with a few new moves + a rough version of Season 2 ultimates running on him.
The game definitely becomes a blocking fest. The AI 95% of the time won't take any risks or make a move if you are far away or blocking. The matches last a really long time when you combine this with the AI being able to predict and block or counter your every move. They always break the combo and in the hour and a half I played yesterday, only once did the AI get a lock out.

Keep in mind I am referring to hard mode and the last half of normal mode. I was able to beat it in normal mode but it was just tedious and frustrating instead of fast and fun like the game should be. The AI has little to no faults, in a game that is based off of exploiting your opponents faults this means they are over powered.

I didn't follow the devs in regards to story mode because I wanted it to be a surprise. Since it took 4 and 1/2 months after launch for this mode to come out, I expected more than cheap cutscenes and just fighting all the characters in the game. I would have liked something like a minigame, rival fight, or boss fight to fill out the story mode. This will just stick to being an online only game for me now, unless they change the AI.
 

DrDogg

Member
Only messed around with him for a little bit but...it seems like Fulgore kinda sucks. There are rarely good opportunities to build meter. Sure you can build a bit here or there but compared to everyone else's meter generation it's pretty abysmal.

I'll have to play with him a bit more but first impressions aren't great. I imagine he'll be stuck as a lower tier character for for the most part.

I don't think he sucks, but it's still really, really early. His frames are pretty good, so that gives him something right there. He also does solid damage when you use the juggle ender, which you have to use if you want meter. At the very least he seems better than Spinal.

My main issue is building meter. I don't think his Shadow abilities should be locked behind the Reactor Meter. Triple Doubles will be useless in competitive play unless you're trying to bait a Breaker, but that's more risk than you should have to take just to build meter.

I think the Reactor Meter should be limited to only allowing special cancels and the big beam. He should still have a normal Shadow Meter. Has anyone figured out a good time to get the medium or heavy meter build in? Seems it's only safe to use the light version, which is only one box.

dont forget his "triple" double which is the best way to gain bar

...and will be easily broken in competitive play.
 

bumpkin

Member
Damn, sucks to hear that the difficulty mangling crosses over from Arcade mode to Survival mode. So much for aspiring to get past my prior survival wins record (23).
 

sangreal

Member
So have they figured out how to get all 3 endings yet? Are they different for every character?

the way acidglow explained it in one of the above videos, you have 2 rivals based on your character and doing an ultra on 1 will get you one ending, doing an ultra on the other will get you a second ending, and doing an ultra on both will get you the third. though I don't know where that leaves you if you don't get any ultras

or at least for jago it apparently works this way
 
No clue if this is true or not but I heard someone say to get the 3 endings you need to:

Beat all 7 characters
Beat all 7 characters with Ultra Combos
Beat all 7 characters with Supreme Victories


Can't confirm if it's true or not but could be a decent starting point unless this has all been figured out already and I'm not aware.
 

hwalker84

Member
No clue if this is true or not but I heard someone say to get the 3 endings you need to:

Beat all 7 characters
Beat all 7 characters with Ultra Combos
Beat all 7 characters with Supreme Victories


Can't confirm if it's true or not but could be a decent starting point unless this has all been figured out already and I'm not aware.

Don't think this is true. It has to do with Doing an ultra on your rival's.
 

Uraizen

Banned
No clue if this is true or not but I heard someone say to get the 3 endings you need to:

Beat all 7 characters
Beat all 7 characters with Ultra Combos
Beat all 7 characters with Supreme Victories



Can't confirm if it's true or not but could be a decent starting point unless this has all been figured out already and I'm not aware.

Never did either of those, so it's not true.
 

daman824

Member
Fulgore has to have one of the best instincts in the game.

He's got like a 42% punish off of a combo breaker with instinct and full meter.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Fulgore not gaining meter through normal combos is throwing me off like crazy. Keep trying to do shadow moves with nothing, heh.

I have all 3 of Sabrewulf's endings but what the hell at Medium difficulty. The AI is extremely annoying and are blocking like crazy.
 

Nori Chan

Member
Fulgore not gaining meter through normal combos is throwing me off like crazy. Keep trying to do shadow moves with nothing, heh.

I have all 3 of Sabrewulf's endings but what the hell at Medium difficulty. The AI is extremely annoying and are blocking like crazy.

6 times I have gotten to the final person before shadow jato...6 times i failed. I hate sadira :(
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Every time I get a new character in this game, it's much less the special moves or unique mechanics that take me time to get used to... but the normals, lol. Want to out-poke someone, and then watch as the normals fall short of hitting the opponent, and they get the exchange instead.

Fulgore's crouching Medium Punch doesn't hit as far as I suspect it to at times, so Medium kicks eat it for breakfast. Love that Jet kick that; pushing back not only for charging, but also into projectile pressure, occasional warp stupidity, or charge claw dashes all provide a bit to play around with that feels pretty good, and unique to the character.

I do love the fact that his meter-gain is something that somewhat draws the opponent IN, rather than Spinal, whose gain abilities cause HIM to close in. Fulgore can pull in all the annoying run-away shenanigan players that this game has, since no one wants to sit and watch fireball / warp / charge stuff all day. Since I've been playing Blazblue, where run away chicken play is always the way of the day (and I've been playing Bullet, probably the worse character in the game to deal with any of that), it feels good to play a character with some good full-screen options and quick distance-closing abilities.

I like the idea that his Instinct is both offensive and defensive; much like Jagos. Worth popping in between rounds to charge the meter, and get that BEAM threat, and puts people on notice no matter where they are, or what they're doing.

Oh, and the framey battles and overall junk I experienced last night after getting the update all seems to have disappeared with Lobby Play today. Which I'm quite glad to see; I didn't want to see the mode degrade into something I wouldn't want to use. Good outlet to grind out new character jitters, versus players of all skilltypes.

Minus the weaknesses of this large update, you could really see how much DH had settled into the role now. This is probably the least buggy patch on KI (and maybe on XB1, since they ALL seem to come with errors), Fulgore's stage inclusion comes with some nice new lighting that really makes it differ from the previous stages, Shadow Jago got a lot of steps towards making him an eventual playable character, we've seen a hint in the direction that Ultimates will head towards (all I really need is some blood and particles, and I'll be happy with Shagos), and a lot of info towards the way DH had envisioned the story progression.

Fulgore Classic looks pretty good too. The bulk is very fitting to the age of the design, compared to the new one. It's like Classic Transformers VS Bayformers, which is very fitting. Those accessories should be pretty interesting...

All in all, I feel pretty good about where the game is at now. Sure I want to see more of EVERYTHING, and there's still tweaks and improvements that could be made all around to just about everything, but thus is the nature of an updatable product. Really looking forward to how Keits and Co. can continue with this upward momentum.
 

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
Dear Lord classic Fulgore looks fucking awful, DH just isn't cut out for these. He looks significantly less terrible in game though, so that's good.
 

DrDogg

Member
So far I'm liking Fulgore. I wish his Shadow moves weren't locked behind the reactor, but otherwise I think he's solid. As far as I can tell, he has a very good math-up against Glacius and Sadira, which are both terrible match-ups for Sabrewulf, so I'm happy about that. The triple-double is useless unless it's used between rounds, but he has enough situations in which he can use the reactor charge that building meter isn't too bad. Just wish Shadow moves were 3 blocks instead of 4.

Once he has full meter and you have some room to play, Fulgore gets pretty ridiculous... especially in the corner. Overhead > light Eye Laser > Energy Bolt > light Eye Laser for frame advantage. Just his overhead into light Eye Laser frame trap is glorious, and the Axis Slash (F+HP) is +3 on block... loving it (as long as the opponent doesn't have meter for a Shadow Counter).

Fulgore has to have one of the best instincts in the game.

He's got like a 42% punish off of a combo breaker with instinct and full meter.

You would need to have full meter first though. That's the big catch about using the beam after a combo breaker or to punish a jump. However, once you have full meter and Instinct at the ready, it's on. Don't jump and don't let me break your combo... especially if you're in the second life bar.
 

Defect

Member
Wtf. As Jago I got the third ending by doing an ultra on everyone since I don't know the rivals. Then I got what I thought was the second ending by doing an ultra on only Fulgore. Now I just beat it without doing an ultra at all and I got the same ending so I'm guessing I did something wrong.

Can someone please explain how to get all the endings clearly. I'm lost.
 
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