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Killer Instinct |OT| New Look! New Moves! Same Killer Grooves!

I think the process is basically the price we have to pay for being able to not spend $200 on a whole new stick. :)

Have you had any issues yet with the stick going unresponsive suddenly after a half hour or so? Every time it happens, all I have to do is unplug it and plug it back in, but it'd suck to have it happen during an online match.
Haven't had that happen, no.
 

DrDogg

Member
Do you guys think we'll get big announcements once that Fulgore trailer hits?

I expect a season two tease. At least one character... but I'm hoping for three. Maybe show three silhouettes or something at the end of the trailer with a nice "season 2" text overlay.

Spinal tips:
Landing your first skull/combo is very crucial. You're pretty weak in options without a skull.
HP is a great poke, stuffs a lot of attacks. Kind of a long start up but great range. Max range, a MK/HK shoulder tackle will combo. Both are unsafe. -3/-5. Shadow shoulder tackle is +2.
You CAN be thrown/hit out of the start up and ending of teleports. Even with skulls. Learn to use tricky setups with teleports and skulls. Example, if you know they mash buttons at the sight of a teleport, MK/HK teleport front/behind, LK teleport, HP poke > fireballs > slide combo.
The tracking on overhead fireball is pretty poor, however it locks their jumping.
You have two ways of causing a 50/50 guessing game. b.HP after chasing a low fireball. Slide and overhead fireball. At certain ranged, due to LP fireballs slow speed, LP fireball and Heavy fireball can create a 50/50, tacked on with a slide or overhead.
Dive kick is great, use sparingly however. If you know someone has a habit of throw teching on wake up, dive kick works like you would imagine.
Various fireball / teleport mix ups exist. Low fireballs are slower than medium.

Match up notes:
Sadira can be handled much easier as you can control her air daggers (absorb them and she can't even grapple down to you) and air fireballs keep her out of the air. Light and Heavy teleport, even without skulls, makes approaching her rather simple. It takes a little getting used to though, to prevent getting hit by her cross ups still.

Thunder is a pretty awful match up (at this moment, I'd say 3:7 without skulls, 5:5 with). His instinct makes him a natural threat to Spinal's mix ups with skulls. His pokes are way better than yours and he really doesn't need to use special attacks to close the gap between you and him. You cannot absorb his command grab.

All I can think of for now... I only got to play my local Sadira and Thunder players tonight.

-3 isn't all that unsafe. Jago and Orchid can punish, but only with a DP which isn't much damage. Sabrewulf can, but only if the range is perfect.

Most of his 50/50s are not 50/50s. You block the first attack to make contact with your character and the other is blocked automatically unless timed perfectly so that you're out of block stun when the second attack makes contact... but with that timing it's easier to block them both.

It's actually kind of disappointing that there aren't any try unblockables in the game. I'm also pretty disappointed that Spinal can be hit out the beginning of his Skeleport animation. The text notes indicate he's completely invincible, but that's not the case at all. Glacius is completely invincible on the way down with Puddle Punch, why is the Skeleport not the same way?

I also don't like the fact that his Dive Kick is unsafe AND is not considered an overhead. If it's not an overhead, it should be safe.

Also, his normals are terrible and his wake-up is very weak. I wish he could air Skeleport with the normal version like he could in KI1. The Shadow Skeleport is a waste of meter in almost every instance.

And... I don't like the tracking on the Shadow Skeleport and heavy Searing Skull. As soon as you fire off a heavy Searing Skull, the opponent can just move forward or back to avoid with ease. You can't even cover an unsafe attack with it because any combo that moves the character forward will allow them to evade it (or they can just use an attack with invincibility).

Same thing happens with the Shadow Skeleport. You bait out an attack and try to punish with the Shadow Port, but because the opponent's attack has forward movement it completely misses AND you have so much recovery you get punished.

I still like Spinal, but right now I'd say he's mid-tier at best. Still a lot of work to do with him so that could easily change, but he's definitely not the salty character the devs made him out to be. At least not this version of the character. Even just having the Skeleport invincible like it states in the game would be enough to cause some nice shenanigans.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Yeah, it's pretty rough that Spinal gets hit and thrown out of the start of skeleport. I can't really find anything good to do on his wakeup.

Didn't know that about the 50/50s either. Do you mean if I do backthrow, heavy skull, then slide if the skull hits first and gets blocked the slide doesnt need to be blocked low?
 

hwalker84

Member
Sweet my Orchid model doesn't load anymore. I select Orchid and my opponent selects their fighter and stage then we just sit forever. Waiting for this guy to quit then I'm powering off and restarting.
 

.la1n

Member
Amazing how the patch messed this game up...

I have just been playing Exhibition matches and everyone for the most part seems to know not to pick Jago's stage. It's an inconvenience but it hasn't rendered the game unplayable so I am alright until they fix it. I hope it will be early this week though since I have some time off work and would love to get some ranked games in.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
I have just been playing Exhibition matches and everyone for the most part seems to know not to pick Jago's stage. It's an inconvenience but it hasn't rendered the game unplayable so I am alright until they fix it. I hope it will be early this week though since I have some time off work and would love to get some ranked games in.

acidglow and i were having some matches and we caused the game to hang on spinals stage too

so i guess no stage is safe
 
I'm unsure what to make of Spinal right now. He seems like a good character on paper, but I'm not sure how to properly play him.

I think his best use of meter will be his shadow searing skull. End combos early with it for extra damage, or extending combos after a launcher ender or carry ender. Either way, that instinct curse seems crucial to his game. Doesn't the instinct curse slowly give Spinal the instinct that drains from the opponent? Spinal being in instinct mode sounds like the gameplan to go for, and if you can expedite the process, by all means go for it.

Going back to his launcher ender, I read on Test Your Might that you can cancel the ending frames of his launcher ender into the overhead searing skull, giving you good oki. I haven't tested this yet, but I will have to do so after work today. Either way, it sounds awesome.
 

Kriaser

Member
I'm unsure what to make of Spinal right now. He seems like a good character on paper, but I'm not sure how to properly play him.

I think his best use of meter will be his shadow searing skull. End combos early with it for extra damage, or extending combos after a launcher ender or carry ender. Either way, that instinct curse seems crucial to his game. Doesn't the instinct curse slowly give Spinal the instinct that drains from the opponent? Spinal being in instinct mode sounds like the gameplan to go for, and if you can expedite the process, by all means go for it.

Going back to his launcher ender, I read on Test Your Might that you can cancel the ending frames of his launcher ender into the overhead searing skull, giving you good oki. I haven't tested this yet, but I will have to do so after work today. Either way, it sounds awesome.

Spinal plays very defensive at first until you can score a knockdown for mix up and get some skulls. Some starter tips are to always know what you can absorb and what risks are there in attempting to absorb it.

Examples are Sadira's air daggers. You can absorb them, forcing her to not be able to grapple down to you, but she may still have her 2nd air jump and could still attack you with a normal. Know which situations you should absorb and which you should teleport around. Another example would be Jago or Orchid at range. You are basically safe to do absorb if you see either of them FLY across the screen. If they are mid-range, I wouldn't suggest attempting to absorb special moves because they are too close and could easily attack you normally. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ABSORB THUNDER.

Once you have some skulls, it's time to know how to use them to mix up your opponent and create 50/50s or general guessing games. Launcher ender is a great way to end a combo and start pressure. On test your might, the guy was right about ending the launcher combo with a HP Fireball, but you should follow up that launcher ender with a MP poke cancelled into HP Fireball, simply to create space between you and the opponent for you do be able to do a HP poke safely (cancel into shoulder charge or low fireball), so the overhead fireball will land on the opponent.

Teleport crazyness is another thing that skulls lead to. When you are in instinct mode, I believe teleport spam should be your ideal movement. It will make the opponent panic and start pressing buttons, in which you do a LK teleport and poke at them with HP for a counter hit or whatnot. If possible, always keep a fireball on screen. MP fireball is +5 on block. Great for making frame traps.

As for meter usage, it's very match up dependent. Against Sadira or Thunder, Shadow Searing Skull all day off of combos and hit confirmed pokes. Thunder's instinct is a natural threat to everything Spinal. Sadira's instinct can lead to a 80% unbreakable combo (with 2 bars) , which can be devastating in your 2nd health bar. Depending how the match is going, I often use his Shadow Sword Swinging attack thing for added damage before ending a combo. I'd rather rack up 45-60% damage from a single mix up using 1-2 skulls than attempting to mix up 3-4 times each round.

Fun absorb facts: #1 You can absorb Glacius' Shatter. His unblockable will give you a Skull. You can sort of do this on reaction, but it's half prediction.
#2 If you see Sabrewulf running from mid-full screen, use Absorb and punish that puppy. Only bad Sabrewulf players do this, but take what you can get and beware of it. If you know a Sabrewulf is eager to use his uppercut on wake up, there's plenty of false meatys you can do and then use absorb.

Note: Jago can Wind Kick over LP Fireballs. Kind of ruins LP + HP fireball traps against him.
 

DrDogg

Member
Yeah, it's pretty rough that Spinal gets hit and thrown out of the start of skeleport. I can't really find anything good to do on his wakeup.

Didn't know that about the 50/50s either. Do you mean if I do backthrow, heavy skull, then slide if the skull hits first and gets blocked the slide doesnt need to be blocked low?

If the Slide hits during the block stun of the heavy skull, they don't have to block low. You'd have to time it so that the Slide hit just as the block stun was ending, which also gives the opponent more time to react.

I'm unsure what to make of Spinal right now. He seems like a good character on paper, but I'm not sure how to properly play him.

I think his best use of meter will be his shadow searing skull. End combos early with it for extra damage, or extending combos after a launcher ender or carry ender. Either way, that instinct curse seems crucial to his game. Doesn't the instinct curse slowly give Spinal the instinct that drains from the opponent? Spinal being in instinct mode sounds like the gameplan to go for, and if you can expedite the process, by all means go for it.

Going back to his launcher ender, I read on Test Your Might that you can cancel the ending frames of his launcher ender into the overhead searing skull, giving you good oki. I haven't tested this yet, but I will have to do so after work today. Either way, it sounds awesome.

The problem with using an overhead skull on wake-up is that it's pretty easy to avoid unless the opponent is cornered. Also, with Spinal's damage, I don't know how I feel about ending combos with the Shadow Searing skull. If you go for maximum damage, you can kill an opponent in essentially two combos and some pokes.

MP fireball is +5 on block. Great for making frame traps.

Have you tested this? The game says +2, the guide says +3.
 

Spades

Member
haha, man that was some laggy business :/ was fun though.

I wish I had more Ki friends in europe. TOP is the only one I know on GAF but hes too good for me.

I'm in the UK dude. As you know, still very much learning the ropes so I'd welcome some matches.
 
B

bomb

Unconfirmed Member
I have such trouble as Thunder with Orchid's slide.

First. I feel as though I am holding back and down but it takes Thunder ages to get down to block so I am usually late. Like he is gief slow. I honestly cannot believe how slow he gets into low block.

Second. Even if I do block, whats next? She bounces too far away for a grab or light attack and she seems to attack me quicker from the block stun at that distance.

So frustrating.
 
Spinal plays very defensive at first until you can score a knockdown for mix up and get some skulls...

The problem with using an overhead skull on wake-up is that it's pretty easy to avoid unless the opponent is cornered. Also, with Spinal's damage, I don't know how I feel about ending combos with the Shadow Searing skull. If you go for maximum damage, you can kill an opponent in essentially two combos and some pokes.

I thank you both for the Spinal tips! I really like the character, but he still seems so foreign to me as a fighting game character. I'm used to playing grapplers, so the things that Spinal brings to the table are taking time to get used to. I just gotta keep at it~!


I have such trouble as Thunder with Orchid's slide.

Having trouble with Orchid's slide as Thunder? Try using Ankle Slicer, any version of it. The move is invincible to low attacks, and Orchid's slide hits low. Try experimenting with it in training mode. Record Orchid doing a slide, maybe from mid-screen or max distance. Then try timing an Ankle Slicer as her slide approaches and see if it yours will hit, and I believe it should. Once it hits, go for a combo or a command-throw reset. This is most useful if Orchid is using her slide as a means to close distance or start a combo, which can be risky for her.

As far as what to do when you block it, I'm not sure. I forget if all versions of her slide are safe on block. Her LK version most likely is, and her HK version probably is not, and she shouldn't really have any frame advantage after. If you block a LK slide, see if you can land a crouching LK into medium command-throw, which is a pseudo reset. At worst, you might trade with something Orchid attempts.

Also, as far as the "slower to get into a crouching state" goes, I don't believe that's true. I doubt that Thunder takes longer to get into a crouching state than any other character in the game. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you're reacting to Orchid's slide too slowly, and you try to block it when it's too late to do so.

Hopefully this advice will help you out.
 

.la1n

Member
Saw this over on the Double Helix forums but it's kind of sad that someone was able to alter a tiny detail and make classic Glacius perfect.

eHz4aBl.jpg


Left image is DH's shitty head and the right is the correct proportions.
 
Saw this over on the Double Helix forums but it's kind of sad that someone was able to alter a tiny detail and make classic Glacius perfect.

eHz4aBl.jpg


Left image is DH's shitty head and the right is the correct proportions.

Yea that's why I felt he looked off. He really does look near perfect with that small edit, hopefully they'll fix it.
 

Sdoots

Member
So, continue avoiding Ranked for now? I picked up Dead Rising 3 and I've just been playing that in the meantime. I might just hold off on KI until my stick arrives at this point.
 

DrDogg

Member
I have such trouble as Thunder with Orchid's slide.

First. I feel as though I am holding back and down but it takes Thunder ages to get down to block so I am usually late. Like he is gief slow. I honestly cannot believe how slow he gets into low block.

Second. Even if I do block, whats next? She bounces too far away for a grab or light attack and she seems to attack me quicker from the block stun at that distance.

So frustrating.

All versions of the slide are unsafe. You should be able to punish every version with a cr.LP or cr.LK. If those don't reach, you can punish with Shadow Call of the Earth.

Also, Thunder low blocks with the same speed as everyone else. You're probably just experiencing lag when playing online. The game looks smooth as silk online, but there's definitely a good 3-5 frames of lag (minimum) in every match.

Anyone know if you can make custom sticks without buying an Xbone pad yet? Wanting a fightstick but £179 is just WAY too much.

I had mine modded with an Xbox One pad. Works fine.
 

bumpkin

Member
How easy is it to do with a standard stick? I have the SFxT stick for 360, wouldn't mind just messing about for one eve so that I could use it on my Xbone!
The pad hack route looks like an awful lot of work to me, but I don't own a soldering iron and have never been particularly good with mechanical projects.

Me personally, I have one of the SFIV Fightstick TE's (round one) for 360 and went the CronusMax route. It works like a charm except for a weird issue I'm having where it periodically will crap out after 30-40 minutes, making me have to unplug and re-plug in the stick to get it working again. I'm not sure if it's a quirk of the CronusMax or if the PS360+ mod I did previously to my stick is the culprit. I haven't done thorough tests yet to nail down the where/when/how of the issues so I can post on their support forums.

One thing I'm still curious about with the CronusMax is the chatter about it messing with the second player's inputs. Can anyone shed any light on this phenomenon?
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
weirdness

after doing a shadow searing skull which knocks down, if you follow up with LP searing skull to juggle and the opponent is holding down/back to block... he will block it... like instantly even though he's supposed to be in a juggle state

i've been doing this to an autoblock cpu for like 5 minutes and he's blocked every one

argh

edit: yep it's a bug,,, my KV meter is not disappearing from the screen lmao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XucX-kDA5pI
 
Man, i love this game, but online ranked matches are just burning me so bad and it sucks because it just isn't fun to play when i keep winning matches that don't mean anything because of disconnects. The times i lose always seem to be the important matches, and i'm not gonna be that dick that disconnects.
 

.la1n

Member
Spinal's banned from use in SCR until his bugs and shit are fixed up and taken care of apparently.

When is SCR? This weekend? I would hope the patch will be out before or on Thursday.

edit: February 28th, yeah surely it would be ironed out by then, jeez. Of course this is DH we are talking about :\
 

Kriaser

Member
I want to give a shout out to Dretok, who I had about 40 spinal vs spinal matches against in exhibition. I really wish xbone would just let us send a damned message to non-friends. How am I even suppose to add friends with their crap if I don't write down their name?
 

.la1n

Member
Yea that's why I felt he looked off. He really does look near perfect with that small edit, hopefully they'll fix it.

Yeah it kind of shows how little effort they actually put into matching the classic skins up to the original designs (well how little effort they put into classic skins period.) I know in some circumstances it would be too much effort / game breaking because the current skeletons and hit boxes are in place and fundamental to the game engine. In the case of Glacius it just comes off as laziness, or they really didn't pay attention to the classic Glacius at all.

"Oh he needs a thinner head? eh screw it just slap the face on the current head and see if we can get by with it."

That's also how I felt about Orchid's classic but it seems they did go back and make some improvements there. Classic Sabre though? I don't think there is any hope on it being anything but an abomination. Feel bad for Sabre fans.

It probably seems like fans just bitch for the sake of bitching but there is always some truth among all the complaints. A lot of what people are complaining about when it comes to the classic skins are typically small changes and tweaks. I actually side with the vocal groups on most of the issues. If they weren't going to show the same attention to the classic skins as they did the new models then why bother in the first place? It's a little insulting if the train of thought was they could just shit these out and we'd eat it up because we love the original games.
 

hwalker84

Member
I want to give a shout out to Dretok, who I had about 40 spinal vs spinal matches against in exhibition. I really wish xbone would just let us send a damned message to non-friends. How am I even suppose to add friends with their crap if I don't write down their name?

You can send messages to non friends. I do it all the time to rage quitters.
 
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