DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Zeliard said:
Is it that hard to believe some of us do find it cumbersome?
KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW
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Is it that hard to believe some of us do find it cumbersome?
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Just played without Hud and Crosshairs, heaps cool, 4th time i have finished the demo.
DenogginizerOS said:
Maybe if you stop thinking about it it wont bother you anymore. I think you (as many) are "over-thinking" about it. Spend less time looking at YouTube videos and more on the demo and you'll forget it. For curiosity, how many times did you go through the demo?
shadowsdarknes
Member
jjasper said:
That's because you have to take a second to bend your knees first like IRL. It's not like in Halo where you jump in an instant and go 7 feet in the air. I think the mechanic works well. You can basically jump over anything of reasonable height. Whereas in a game like Resistance 2, there was no assistance.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
4 times.TTP said:
I play a lot of shooters. Most know me as one who is quite good at headshots. I find KZ2 to be more laborious than I prefer. I will adjust, but I don't think the decision was a smart one.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Seriously.TTP said:
Some people here are riding some of the more minimal issues like they are flaws. They are design choices afforded by a lot of the physics and momentum based movements in the game. I went back to the default controls and got used to them. I did up the sensitivity about 3 notches. It feels great. I can't really think of anything else to say based on the demo except it left me wanting more.
For some to get so meticulous in their complaints is far fetching. The bottom line is the game plays great and handles fine.
Haunted
Member
The only way to play it, imo. There are enough in-game indicators to convey crucial info to the player and it increases the immersion tenfold.ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Nah, it's pretty natural, the better and more polished the game, the more nitpicky the complaints.LiquidMetal14 said:
And we have a very polished game on our hands here.
shadowsdarknes said:
One of the more annoying aspects of that game. You literally could not jump over a fucking rail in that game ... instead you'd get stuck on geometry and get pelted by enemy fire - same shit happens in the multiplayer. I still have no idea WHY IG went with that design. KZ 2 gets the jumping just right imo.
The "lag" or "delay input" or whatever you call it is only annoying when you focus on it and try to fight it. If you take it into account when aiming (and mostly use extremely tiny and gentle moves) it clicks. And it actually makes sense. If you try to play it like R2? you're doing it wrong. Most of the time I'm not using more than 20% of the aiming stick's range and it works very well. Ram the stick, and you're fucked.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
N30RYU said:
This particular issue is not about the weight in the game, this is a separate issue in regards to a delay in the game picking up your button pushes/actions.
I think we need to separate these two issues now becuase people are going to get confused.
Camp 1 : People are are just not happy with the weight of the controls that GG intended for you to feel by creating a longer acceleration period/arc.
Camp 2 : People that are fine with the weighted controls but have an issue with how long it takes for the game to respond to your button presses and or actions, so in essence some people are saying that it's the delay before the game even starts to move at the point of the acceleration period/arc that is the problem, not the slower acceleration period/arc itself.
Camp 3 : People that have a problem with both the above.
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Kill Your Masters
Member
Nah I just wanted to bail on potential attacksHaunted said:That's fine.
The game would be better with the option, but I'll live if it doesn't make it into the game.
CT would be mighty fine so I could play Alt 2 properly but yes, I can also live without it, Standard 1 does do job well.shadowsdarknes said:
I know that but the bending of the knees is delayed. Anyway it doesn't matter as it doesn't effect my perception of the game or the controls. In fact I played a few other shooters last night realized how much I loved the "weight" just seems more natural to me than the gun on a stick approach.
Edit: I would fall into camp 2 above.
DenogginizerOS said:
No, and I never said otherwise. All I've been saying the entire time is don't expect some sort of patch or fix - the way the game plays was designed purposefully. It's a case where you're either interested in the controls and want to play, dislike the controls but are willing to adjust, or despise the controls and refuse to get used to them. To each his own - I'm just not sure what people think complaining is going to do.
DenogginizerOS said:
I see. Well, try to give it a couple of extra tries without thinking about it. Or just wait for the full game. You'll definitely adjust and think about this as a non-issue I'm sure.
It would be nice to check how the game would feel with zero (or less) delay tho.
rollingstart
Banned
putting sensitivity at max does make the aiming a lot more smooth, but I'm not good enough with a dual analog controller to deal with the way faster speeds.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
While I applaud the decision to try something different, I think the complaining illustrates that some will be turned off by Killzone 2 because of the controls. While I will adjust, I am not sure why they chose to delay or alter what is, in my opinion, necessary in first person shooters. Having said that, I think it will alter the way people approach combat situations (i.e. they will be less inclined to run, jump and gun). That is a good thing.Zeliard said:
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Linkzg said:
You just need to learn to be more gentle with the analogue sticks when it comes to more refined movements, I'm using the maximum sensitivity settings now and I find them perfect, it just took alot of practise, just keep playing through the demo and your eventually adjust, or start @ default and then move it up a notch every couple of times you go through the demo, the more you practice now the better you'll be on-line when the game is out anyway.
Raist said:
I can not imagine to play a shooter with flicking the stick all the time. Something I really enojy about the DSIII compard to the 360 pad is that you have a long way to move the stick for very fine adjustmens and fluid controls. If it's like you describe it you can just use a digi-pad.^^
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I have taken it to the highest and about 3/4 up.JB1981 said:
Don't worry. I will be there popping skulls when you need me.
But as someone who uses precision in my everyday life in surgery, I prefer that same level of response in my games.
PjotrStroganov
Member
In the end, I'm just partially disappointed by the controls. Running,jumping and sprinting feel just fine. It's the aiming acceleration that feels off.
I'll leave it at that because we are all going in circles.
I'll leave it at that because we are all going in circles.
Boss Man
Member
DenogginizerOS said:
Honestly, if you haven't adjusted after 4 plays I doubt you will. You just have to get it. It's intentional weight, not lag. There's nothing laborious about it and aiming is no more difficult in this game than any other. I was shooting helmets off of guys who were hiding behind cover on my first play through with the scope, and I don't think there's much (if any) aim assist while zoomed. From the hip, aiming is very assisted and easy. Maybe I just watched enough videos to understand how it would feel beforehand. There's really nothing bad about the way this game feels, if you can understand it. It'll either click and you love it, or it won't and you'll hate it. I don't think it takes more than one play for this to happen. About halfway through I felt like the controls were the best I've felt in a console FPS.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
You don't know me, friend. I will adjust.StateofMind said:
DenogginizerOS said:
I've noticed that even while playing on the demo difficulty. You generally have to be careful with your decision-making, especially as far as where to go for cover, and I imagine that ramps up a lot more on higher difficulties. As TTP said earlier, this is a game where if you let someone get behind you, you're dead (especially in MP).
The biggest reason I don't mind the way the game controls is that it does feel good to me, but the second biggest reason is that it's the same for everyone. Nobody has any unfair advantage, and almost everybody is coming from other shooters and has to make that same adjustment.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I hope there is an option in MP that allows for one or two shot kills. One thing that the sim-like weight gives to this game is the thrill of having to keep your nerves at check while you adjust to line up the shot (something I love about deer hunting). However, I think that the end-user should be rewarded with a finely placed heart or head shot. Perhaps the hit box over the head and the heart have a higher degree of lethality potential.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
shadowsdarknes said:
Yup, this is correct. You can see the camera move as if Sev is gathering before the jump. In fact, this should be a sign that points us to the realization of the developers making a conscious decision to give the controls a more realistic feel. Jumping in Halo is actually extremely unrealistic.
DenogginizerOS said:
If you get the STA14 rifle in the warehouse from the guy on the roof, it's a one-hit kill if you shoot them in the head (unless you graze the helmet and knock it off, which happened to me once). The head often explodes, too, which is a nice bonus. I imagine headshots with a rifle in MP are one-hit kill.
cakefoo said:
I'm not bashing anyone at all, yo.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
On a completely different note, I just want to applaud GG and Sony for delivering on the graphical promise of the much maligned E3 CG/"real-time" video. Motorstorm, LBP, GT5
, and now Killzone 2 are just a few of the pristine visuals delivered by the PS3 and I eagerly await MLB The Show 09 and God of War 3.
, and now Killzone 2 are just a few of the pristine visuals delivered by the PS3 and I eagerly await MLB The Show 09 and God of War 3.DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Yeah. The skull-popping is pretty good (I still prefer the meaty audio of the Gears games). But a shot to the heart is difficult to, but can be as lethal as a headshot. Again, just an observation.Zeliard said:
DenogginizerOS said:On a completely different note, I just want to applaud GG and Sony for delivering on the graphical promise of the much maligned E3 CG/"real-time" video. Motorstorm, LBP, GT5
Not Uncharted 2?
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Good catch. Apologies, Arne!TTP said:
The menus have the same lag, so what's the weightiness there? And the menu lag is actually distracting too. Sometimes I'm tapping up up up to get to a selection, and the delay will cause me to think I'm on the previous selection and I'll hit up one too many times. I don't have that problem of pressing a direction too many times on the XMB, which has only 1 frame of delay. Laugh all you want. I'm not about to cancel my preorder over it, but I'm telling you it's a core fucking mechanic in computer interfacing, and people's brains are turning to mush these days because they've built up such a tolerance to their laggy wireless mice and cheap LCD monitors.Zeliard said:
Is anyone else bothered by the pulsing/"jumping"/static effect of the main menus--not the load screens--in the demo?
Even during the first bot video in the Ve3tro link--when the player selects weapons and a spawn point--I can't stand to look at it.
http://tinyurl.com/dkazda (begins about 3:34-3:36)
I made a post on the official KZ2 forums about it and another user complained of headaches when looking at the menus.
I hope Guerrilla leaves an option for this to be turned off in the final version.
Even during the first bot video in the Ve3tro link--when the player selects weapons and a spawn point--I can't stand to look at it.
http://tinyurl.com/dkazda (begins about 3:34-3:36)
I made a post on the official KZ2 forums about it and another user complained of headaches when looking at the menus.
I hope Guerrilla leaves an option for this to be turned off in the final version.
DenogginizerOS said:
If it's limited to something like the sniper rifle and its variants, I don't see why not.
cakefoo said:
I'm not laughing at anything. I'm not sure what you're being so defensive about, particularly when I keep saying that if you don't like it, you don't like it. I personally don't feel it's an issue. The menu lag isn't distracting to me in the least bit, and I've never had a problem selecting what I want. I'm familiar with bad menu and input lag from certain PC games that aren't fond of vsync, and this feels nowhere near the sort.
Omar Ismail
Banned
Played the demo a few times, and my issue with the game isn't necessarily with the controls, but a few factors that combine together to make the firefights less fun.
I could write an entire essay on it, but I'm trying to keep it short.
Fact 1: You get killed pretty quickly.
Fact 2: You only get 1 gun and a side-arm
Potential Fact 3: There's only one type of grenade (there's only one type in the demo, don't know if there's more in the full game... one would hope)
Fact 4: Close quarters combat is very difficult (due to the realistic weight and momentum)
Fact 5: Cover is extremely useful
Ok, so now when we combine these facts together, this limits your options in a particular firefight. In general with FPS games you can do long range fighting, medium range, or close range. Fact 2 means that you have to decide what kind of range fighting you want to do, and stick with it for a duration. You can't instantly switch between long-range, and medium range unless you pick up a new weapon which might not always be available. Furthermore, the close combat fighting is always available with the knife and melee, but it's not that effective because of Fact 1 and 4.
So what ends up happening, at least in the demo is you get into an area with enemies and just chill behind cover taking enemies out methodically until the area is cleared. You use grenades if you want, but it mostly amounts to an on-rails Time Crisis experience where you hide behind cover, wait until they're out and take some shots to kill them. Rinse and repeat. Compare this to other FPS games like R2, Halo, COD each with different levels of dynamism but all have more options constantly available to you than KZ2 by virtue of their weapon and enemy mechanics.
Funny enough, these issues aren't prevalent in multiplayer. You have many more options available to you, especially with classes like the engineer or scout, there is no cover to abuse, and dying isn't THAT big of a deal so you don't need to totally avoid it like the plague. So multiplayer combat will be orders of magnitude more dynamic than the single player, which is good.
This is actually where co-op can help a lot, because when you have a human partner the options available grows exponentially and the battles become that much more dynamic and interesting. For example one of you can lay suppressing fire while the other one flanks. Or you both throw grenades on opposite sides of a structure and then rush the survivors, etc etc. But by yourself it's... cover->shot shot shot->cover->move to another cover->shot shot->cover.
Guess it still turned into an essay... ahhh well.
I could write an entire essay on it, but I'm trying to keep it short.
Fact 1: You get killed pretty quickly.
Fact 2: You only get 1 gun and a side-arm
Potential Fact 3: There's only one type of grenade (there's only one type in the demo, don't know if there's more in the full game... one would hope)
Fact 4: Close quarters combat is very difficult (due to the realistic weight and momentum)
Fact 5: Cover is extremely useful
Ok, so now when we combine these facts together, this limits your options in a particular firefight. In general with FPS games you can do long range fighting, medium range, or close range. Fact 2 means that you have to decide what kind of range fighting you want to do, and stick with it for a duration. You can't instantly switch between long-range, and medium range unless you pick up a new weapon which might not always be available. Furthermore, the close combat fighting is always available with the knife and melee, but it's not that effective because of Fact 1 and 4.
So what ends up happening, at least in the demo is you get into an area with enemies and just chill behind cover taking enemies out methodically until the area is cleared. You use grenades if you want, but it mostly amounts to an on-rails Time Crisis experience where you hide behind cover, wait until they're out and take some shots to kill them. Rinse and repeat. Compare this to other FPS games like R2, Halo, COD each with different levels of dynamism but all have more options constantly available to you than KZ2 by virtue of their weapon and enemy mechanics.
Funny enough, these issues aren't prevalent in multiplayer. You have many more options available to you, especially with classes like the engineer or scout, there is no cover to abuse, and dying isn't THAT big of a deal so you don't need to totally avoid it like the plague. So multiplayer combat will be orders of magnitude more dynamic than the single player, which is good.
This is actually where co-op can help a lot, because when you have a human partner the options available grows exponentially and the battles become that much more dynamic and interesting. For example one of you can lay suppressing fire while the other one flanks. Or you both throw grenades on opposite sides of a structure and then rush the survivors, etc etc. But by yourself it's... cover->shot shot shot->cover->move to another cover->shot shot->cover.
Guess it still turned into an essay... ahhh well.
Omar Ismail said:
I don't necessarily disagree with all of this. Fact 2 does kinda bother me - the Magnum, albeit a nice weapon, should be able to be switched out at least in SP to allow for a more versatile and tactical approach. It doesn't seem like the demo is indicative of how the enemy encounters truly operate, though. TTP wrote this a while back:
TTP said:
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