Killzone Shadow Fall - Ultra High Bitrate MP Footage

Wait, what? People are seriously saying that is a downgrade? Dude... just look at the GIF.

The disguise effect is vastly better and much more realistic. Even in stills you can tell its a much more detailed model. Its just a bit muted which is an artistic choice that improves the overall aesthetic.
 
RoadHazard said:
Not a completely fair comparison, because:

a) Guerilla are clearly much more technically competent than Insomniac. Insomniac are fine, Guerilla are wizards.

b) The PS4 is significantly easier to develop for and get good results on than the PS3. Seeing launch titles reach higher relative quality isn't very surprising.

But yes, of course we will see significantly better looking games in the future. We already know there are loads of optimizations Guerilla simply didn't have time to do with this game, so I'm sure their next PS4 game will be another step up. I'm just not sure the difference, when all is said and done, will be as great as it was going from Resistance to the best looking PS3 games.
Click to expand...
Compare early 360 games with late 360 games then. This is a console which is 'relatively easy' to program for.
 
Looked nice, but the gameplay seemed kinda meh. Could be the boring map, but it didn't quite have the panache of KZ3. Needs more nuclear wastelands, or maybe death jungles.

Funnily enough the FOV didn't really bother me, because I've adjusted my brain so that it expects consoles to have crappy FOV. If I need more, I'll go PC.
 
Zen said:
There absolutely is less detail in the new version. Texture res has been parred back. The complete lack of stitching on his 'belt' wrap portion of the outfit around the arm is one such example.
Click to expand...

No way man, if anything they added more detail. Look at the buttons around his arm for example, they reflect light now and are more round, the straps have a higher res texture and some smaller buttons added too. The whole texture around his jacket is higher res now too and it has more stuff like zippers added to it. The character has easily more polygons now.
 
camac002 said:
This is to do with SP but invisible man got a new coat of paint in the latest playstation trailer:

http://i.imgur.com/DS5PuD1.jpg[/IMG

PS meeting:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vcq2V2A.jpg[/IMG

The snippet in the playstation trailer is of slightly lower quality than the february upload for anyone that is worried about seeing less detail :)[/QUOTE]
I like the colours. They changed quite a few details. The "new" image is slightly more compressed so i won't judge the fabric textures on this but they did remove some detail here and there. Could be just artistic / more realistic decisions. It's too soon and too compressed to start screaming "downgrade" yet, but i'm sure they dialed something down to dial some other things up. In an earlier vid i noticed they changed threes for simpler versions of trees (same area). We need high res vids of this shit!!!!!
Click to expand...
 
RoadHazard said:
Not a completely fair comparison, because:

a) Guerilla are clearly much more technically competent than Insomniac. Insomniac are fine, Guerilla are wizards.

b) The PS4 is significantly easier to develop for and get good results on than the PS3. Seeing launch titles reach higher relative quality isn't very surprising.

But yes, of course we will see significantly better looking games in the future. We already know there are loads of optimizations Guerilla simply didn't have time to do with this game, so I'm sure their next PS4 game will be another step up. I'm just not sure the difference, when all is said and done, will be as great as it was going from Resistance to the best looking PS3 games.
Click to expand...

It is the exact samething. It's been the EXACT same thing with every console release. Guerrilla can't overcome this fact.
 
camac002 said:
DS5PuD1.jpg
Click to expand...

30565.jpg
 
boinx said:
No way man, if anything they added more detail. Look at the buttons around his arm for example, they reflect light now and are more round, the straps have a higher res texture and some smaller buttons added too. The whole texture around his jacket is higher res now too and it has more stuff like zippers added to it. The character has easily more polygons now.
Click to expand...

A reflection map isn't really added detail, certainly less added than they've clearly taken away. The smaller button was already on the original reveal mode, look closely. The only reason they'd switched to such non detailed straps is if they had to nuke the texture res and the pattern was no longer readable. The texture around his jacket, if anything it's worse. Maybe you can MS paint to highlight the parts you are talking about.

EDIT: The nubs don't look like they are actually reflecting anything, they're an addition to the texture surface.

nib95 said:
Lol. I guess you missed all the additional details? The zip on his collar, the new buckle clips and straps, metal inserts on his face mask, black gaffa tape wrapped around the tubing, specular highlights on the orbs, metal clips on straps, new folds on the face mask etc?
Click to expand...

They've still clearly pared back texture detail and added very minor additions.

New buckle clips? They're the same as in the old model. Take another look.

DS5PuD1.jpg


PS meeting:

vcq2V2A.jpg


Arguable minor poly boost with doo dads but that's the only positive.
 
Zen said:
A reflection map isn't really added detail, certainly less added than they've clearly taken away. The smaller button was already on the original reveal mode, look closely. The only reason they'd switched to such non detailed straps is if they had to nuke the texture res and the pattern was no longer readable. The texture around his jacket, if anything it's worse. Maybe you can MS paint to highlight the parts you are talking about.

EDIT: The nubs don't look like they are actually reflecting anything, they're an addition to the texture surface.
Click to expand...

You're assuming its a downgrade because the artists made appearance changes. A downgrade is clearly not the case. The newer model looks to have more poly's than the original reveal pretty handedly.

The texture work you are referring to is invalid because the cloth has changed. Its a different material now so obviously its going to have a different look. The material now being used is clearly more muted, however it looks aesthetically much more pleasing and consistent with the overall art style.

So I agree with your assessment that the material on the Helghast jacket is more muted, but that doesn't mean its a texture downgrade, just different material with a different texture.
 
Material changes are one thing, switching to a MUCH less detailed material, that's not even as detailed as they could make it look, is very telling. There's no way it hasn't seen a res downgrade or they didn't then rework the design to work around lower targets for who knows what reason even if overall texture detail has increased in the scenes. It's really that simple.

/shrug
 
Does anyone know if the playstation pulse headsets will work with this?

I had to dismantle my surround system (kids) but I feel like this needs it!
 
Zen said:
They've still clearly pared back texture detail and added very minor additions.
Click to expand...

Buckle on the left arm strap etc. It's now metal. And the new material makes much more sense. It's supposed to be tough, not stretchy (as is implied by the previous texture). I mentioned about 5-6 new poly or texture improvements, and you mention one (artistic) change as your counter argument as proof that there has been a downgrade lol. Some people are trying WAY too hard.

For reference about the improvements.
nib95 said:
Lol. I guess you missed all the additional details? The zip on his collar, the new buckle clips and straps, metal inserts on his face mask, black gaffa tape wrapped around the tubing, specular highlights on the orbs, metal clips on straps, new folds on the face mask etc?
Click to expand...

Also, you're basing this texture detail downgrade off what, a highly compressed blown up YouTube capture? Lol. That is an absolutely ridiculous and laughable notion. According to GG themselves, character models have all been upgraded and textures 4x more detailed than before. In other words, you're talking nonsense.
 
RoadHazard said:
Not a completely fair comparison, because:

a) Guerilla are clearly much more technically competent than Insomniac. Insomniac are fine, Guerilla are wizards.

b) The PS4 is significantly easier to develop for and get good results on than the PS3. Seeing launch titles reach higher relative quality isn't very surprising.

But yes, of course we will see significantly better looking games in the future. We already know there are loads of optimizations Guerilla simply didn't have time to do with this game, so I'm sure their next PS4 game will be another step up. I'm just not sure the difference, when all is said and done, will be as great as it was going from Resistance to the best looking PS3 games.
Click to expand...

Resistance: FOM to Resistance 3 was a huge leap in graphical quality if you want to stay in the same studio.
 
People looking WAY TOO DEEP into intricate technical details that can EASILY be overlooked.

The game looks amazing and runs smooth as silk. Just enjoy the hype. These people nit-picking at miniscule details and arguing their "point" are destined to be nothing but coffin-dodging curtain twitchers when they are older. They are just the type.
 
Zen said:
Material changes are one thing, switching to a MUCH less detailed material, that's not even as detailed as they could make it look, is very telling. There's no way it hasn't see a res downgrade or they didn't then rework the design to work around lower targets. It's really that simple.

/shrug
Click to expand...

I don't understand where you are coming from. What is telling? The fact that they made an artistic choice by redesigning the outfit with a different material? Not all materials are made equally Zen.

All materials have different textures, some are more flashy and detailed than others. The newer material is a muted type of texture and the design choice is much better.

You are arguing they made those changes for technical reasons, and I'm arguing its for artistic reasons. The engine can easily handle the other original model but why would they keep that model when its replacement looks much superior?
 
Zen said:
A reflection map isn't really added detail, certainly less added than they've clearly taken away. The smaller button was already on the original reveal mode, look closely. The only reason they'd switched to such non detailed straps is if they had to nuke the texture res and the pattern was no longer readable. The texture around his jacket, if anything it's worse. Maybe you can MS paint to highlight the parts you are talking about.

EDIT: The nubs don't look like they are actually reflecting anything, they're an addition to the texture surface.



They've still clearly pared back texture detail and added very minor additions.

New buckle clips? They're the same as in the old model. Take another look.

DS5PuD1.jpg


PS meeting:

vcq2V2A.jpg


Arguable minor poly boost with doo dads but that's the only positive.
Click to expand...

Is it at all possible that...you know...the top image is more compressed, thus losing some of the fine detail?
 
Absolutely but not to the degree that it would obstruficate like for like res of things like those straps.

ZaCH3000 said:
I don't understand where you are coming from. What is telling? The fact that they made an artistic choice by redesigning the outfit with a different material? Not all materials are made equally Zen.

All materials have different textures, some are more flashy and detailed than others. The newer material is a muted type of texture and the design choice is much better.

You are arguing they made those changes for technical reasons, and I'm arguing its for artistic reasons. The engine can easily handle the other original model but why would they keep that model when its replacement looks much superior?
Click to expand...

You're making an argument for quality based on aesthetic quality, I'm talking about technical quality. Why would they make the straps so low detail unless it was part of an overall paring back where possible. Are you going to argue that they removed over half the lights in the flight scene (traffic and on buildings) because it 'looks better'? Maybe in doing the overall texture bump through development they reduced the budget for their LoD 0 models slightly. As long as we both agree that we're coming at it from different perspectives, I mean there really isn't an issue.

nib95 said:
Buckle on the left arm strap etc. It's now metal. And the new material makes much more sense. It's supposed to be tough, not stretchy (as is implied by the previous texture). I mentioned about 5-6 new poly or texture improvements, and you mention one (artistic) change as your counter argument as proof that there has been a downgrade lol. Some people are trying WAY too hard.

For reference about the improvements.


Also, you're basing this texture detail downgrade off what, a highly compressed blown up YouTube capture? Lol. That is an absolutely ridiculous and laughable notion. According to GG themselves, character models have all been upgraded and textures 4x more detailed than before. In other words, you're talking nonsense.
Click to expand...

You're talking to one of the biggest Killzone fans on the board with these assumption, keep in mind.

"Some of you are trying WAY TOO HARD"

Indeed.

And no, details are important nib95, all they mentioned was that 'overall' texture density had seen a x4 increase. It's entirely possible they shifted around their budget somewhat and we've already seen things that look worse like having far less active lights in the flight scene so it's not outlandish to see an up close model ith less overall texture detail and think that they made that decision consciously for technical reasons. It's not unreasonable to think that they didn't mention or felt that overall model improvements outweighed areas where they pared them back. I mean I would consider the VSA visors reflecting etc to be worth saying that the model has been improved even if II ended up reducing the res on one of the numerous textures on the model for some reason during development.

In fact when they talked about x4 texture density that can mean anything, even simply referencing the amount of texture data per frame due to improvements in LoD/streaming. It would be odd if it was outright resolution, especially since when they made that quote people said 'uh where exactly?'

In summary, you need to chill out.
 
Saw the footage.

I like the lighting, textures, and gun models.

I dont like the game looks a bit blurry (due to fxaa), a bit jaggy, and sluggish despite running 60fps. Foilage is unimpressive also since it doesnt react to player movement through it, and looks similar to last gen
 
Looks pretty good especially for 1080p60. Now I'm thinking, what could they accomplish if the game was 720p30? :P
 
Zen said:
Why would they make the straps so low detail unless it was part of an overall paring back where possible.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to process an alternate hypothesis? If you have the time to make such a large post arguing over the details on the straps of a single model from a 3 second youtube quality video, then I'm sure you'd have time to think about what I'm going to say. :)

It looks like the character has gone through a complete overhaul in design aesthetic. From being rugged, flamboyant and overt, the design is now smoother, understated and covert. This reflects in the toned down colors, toned down brightness of the glowing eyes and the smoother textures. This could have nothing to do with "paring down texture detail". They could have swapped out the materials used. The attire does not look like canvas anymore. The straps now have a soft cloth finish as opposed to the rugged polypropylene webbing finish it had before. I prefer the new design because it fits the design philosophy of an assassin better.

Are you suggesting GG should not use materials that, by nature, have lesser texture detail? Should everything have criss-crossing patterns to prove how pretty the game looks? You are jumping to conclusions without seeing enough footage or looking at the bigger picture.
 
If they wanted to have less details for better performance they would have just have less details, and not redo the whole outfit.

The different aesthetic theory makes more sense.
 
finally got to watch this footage... graphics are insane.. hope the game play is as good :) Hoping it's a return to KZ2 style maps...wish they would show more footage of the maps and full matches instead of clips here and there...
 
Figboy79 said:
Personally, I don't think Killzone: Shadowfall is where you should start your Killzone experience. But then again, I've been a KZ fan since Liberation on the PSP.

--SNIP--
Click to expand...
Thanks for this post. I really appreciate the thought you put into explaining the KZ series and why they are a favorite of yours. I am a lifelong Halo fan, have been since 11.15.01, and will be until I die, but I am going with the PS4 at launch and am marrying KZ with it. Having never played more than just a few moments of the KZ2 demo, I've always wondered what people like in the series. Even now, as I watch the footage of KZ:SF, I find that the game looks boring. It appears to be a modern age Blake Stone; a game pitted against legendary FPS that has lost its soul along the way.

Your post certainly leads me to believe I am wrong. And how couldn't I be? I've only played but a few moments of the demo of KZ2. So, again, thanks for the awesome job on your post!
 
Well, I have to say that this trailer is INCREDIBLE in my opinion. I jacked my laptop display up to 1920x1200 to play it and was floored. Definitely a huge leap over what I've seen in this current generation. People saying it's a minimal difference between 720p and 1080p need to see this video in native 1080p display resolution. No comparison, although 720p DOES still look nice.
 
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