• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

King of Fighters XIV Roster Discussion thread. Leaked roster in first post

I'm still bummed that this game comes out on the same day as the Nioh beta. Totally unfair, guys!
KuGsj.gif


Summer was practically a drought for me besides more MonHun, and then two of the games I most want to play have the nerve to drop on the same day!

Same day as Deus Ex too lol. But I'm only going to pick this up, Deus Ex gonna have to wait when price drops.
 

stn

Member
A big starting roster is a huge deal. Hell, that's the reason I'm most hyped for KOF14. I bought KOF13 long after it went on sale, I'm buying this day one. Roster size is also one of the reasons I've gotten a bit bored with SF5 as of late. Either way, 50 characters is fantastic.
 

Loona

Member
Then I hope it'll last long, but really it's no more a complete package than various fighting games from the past few years, or ones that got released recently.

Most don't provide this much content on their first mainline series 3D version of the game.

KoF XIV |OT| Cast and dimensions multiplied by 1.5

I guess I'm looking at it from a 'main event' POV, like being one of the games to constantly appear in EVO finals alongside the bigger names like SF and Smash.

The kind of people that only care about SF and Smash will keep on only caring around SF and Smash, it's pointless to try and persuade them - getting KoF at EVO for a few years was already a major victory for the game's visibility, and that was when there was no actual official SNK presence at those events.
Now their foot is in the door, by precedent if by nothing else, and if the game makes it again I think Oda and company might get to make a few trips to Vegas in the future, and maybe even provide some interesting news when they do.

Do the fighters use mocap or is all keyframe data in their animations?
Also, is snk using keyframe animation templates for certain default animations.
Example:When you ko your opponent with a weak attack or chip them out.

No idea - they did base the XII and XIII on 3D models, and the poses for several animations in XIV look quite similar to some in the previous game.

Another example would be (billy cain sister , forgot her name)
is she using Andy's keyframe data on some her moves?

I guess you mean Alice (Billy's sister is Lilly, who's not playable in XIV) - she has a lot of moves based on other characters, but I'm not sure if she's even as tall as Andy to use identical animation data on the few attacks she has based on his...

I've always disliked when 3d fighters do this, especially Tekken, like characters would have the same moves and keyframe data, some are even built that way like the wooden blocks character named mokojin (I forgot his name as well)

Apparently the original plan for Rugal in 94 was to have him learn the player's moves during the match and use them against him, but it just wasn't possible then, especially since it would mean redrawing a lot of animations just for that one character - 3D would make it easier, so if they brought back the character and implemented the concept it would be pretty forgivable in that one instance...
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Question for you guys:
Any hopes that with the new details of the story line, rock could potentially be available via DLC?

Unlikely. These guys want to save Rock for a Fatal Fury game. You get imitation Shine Knuckle from Shun'Ei for now!

Or how about any of the kof maximum roster?

Also unlikely, but not impossible. If Falcoon begs enough, since he actually seems to be around SNK again, doing the Mai cover art for the US Burn to Fight edition soundtrack...

Do the fighters use mocap or is all keyframe data in their animations?
Also, is snk using keyframe animation templates for certain default animations.
Example:When you ko your opponent with a weak attack or chip them out.

It's hand-made animation, but there is some computer-generated tweening in there, too. They mention this in the Interviews translated by MadManCafe. Some automated tweens, but for anything important, they do that stuff by hand. So while most games now would leave all cloth animation to a physics model, this game has SOME of that, but when it comes to a detailed zoom or an animation where the fabric / lose elements need to move properly to sell the animation, they do that stuff by hand.

There are SOME shared animations (Chip KO, spin out, certain falls), but there's a lot more unique ones (like unique dizzy animations, max activations, win poses, etc.)

Another example would be (billy cain sister , forgot her name)
is she using Andy's keyframe data on some her moves?

Lilly Kane isn't in this game. Ahh, per Loona's suggestion, you probably mean Alice. She does seem to share a lot of FF team motions (not just Andy), but they seem to have her own feel to them, so they're probably, at the least, least, modified animations. At most, entirely new ones.

Also, she has certain twist and extensions that are more like legacy moves, rather than the ones the characters have in this particular game. She she's pretty fresh...

I've always disliked when 3d fighters do this, especially Tekken, like characters would have the same moves and keyframe data, some are even built that way like the wooden blocks character named mokojin (I forgot his name as well)

I can agree with this, it's cheap feeling, and robs the characters of individual personality. A bit necessairy at times though; when each character has 100s of animations, a few shared ones are to be expected, and add uniformity to the game, which is good for the player.

But when they don't even bother to change things for different sexes, or for personality types at ALL, it looks really bad. I hate how Tekken shares the same "last stretch before passing out" after a ground KO with EVERY CHARACTER. Kuma will do the same motion as Xiayou. It's just... yech.
 

Relique

Member

Many of the large roster examples you previously listed were bundles or second versions of games. 2k2 had a large roster but UM added a ton years after the fact, same thing with umvc3. If you were invested in those franchises from day one you had to buy multiple versions of that game to reach the roster numbers you are quoting. By extension these games had a longer dev times and took less financial risk by improving existing games, staggering the financial investment and risk. Directly comparing them to a game that is launching with 50 fighters is unfair.

But even if we accept your argument that this roster is no big deal and used to be the norm a few years ago... surely you could understand people being happy with it when considering that the last few fighting games built from the ground up have had smaller rosters overall. Day 1 Xrd, KI, SF5, and others have launched with smallish rosters compared to the 50 that KOF is bringing day 1. Many games are trickling down characters and are adapting a season pass model so a game like this a breath of fresh air for many of us.

Besides the business with the roster, I am not understanding the argument here. It sounds like you are worried about the competitive aspect of the game when there have been no reasons to really be worried. Footage and players testify that the game is very competitive. The demo version seems to be pretty close to kof 13 levels of balance, sure some characters like Nelson have to work harder than others but that has always been the norm. People that have played the larger builds are happy with the game. SNK seem to have hit a good balance between making the game approachable with shorter combos and easier execution yet left room for top players to optimize to squeeze in that extra 20-30 damage. Even people that liked HD combos get way more opportunities to max mode activate than before. The big remaining question is how good is the netcode because it can make or break the game long term.. Frankly, judging by how SNK has been handling the marketing, communication, and how honest they have been with kof14 I feel like they deserve a little bit of credit that they will do their best. They've handled everything beautifully up to this point and even if the netcode isn't ggpa levels and the game isn't balanced on a razor's edge, at least they didn't over promise anything or try to pull the veil over our eyes with shitty DLC.

I've been practicing my Mai against the CPU an hour or two almost every day and am still noticing Mai win quotes that I haven't heard before. SNK may lack the technical wizardry to completely knock it out of the park with this first one but it is clear there is a lot of love and passion behind this project so people are excited.
 

TreIII

Member
Great post, couldn't agree more. I can not wait to see what the future holds for this game, along with what this rejuvenated SNK has in store next.

All signs point to Samurai Shodown being next on the docket. And I, for one, can't wait for that.

Even more so if Neo_G gets to be the game's director, and gets to go full-speed with his vision of what a SS game can be like.
 

BadWolf

Member
I'm still bummed that this game comes out on the same day as the Nioh beta. Totally unfair, guys!
KuGsj.gif


Summer was practically a drought for me besides more MonHun, and then two of the games I most want to play have the nerve to drop on the same day!

And then there's FFXV the month after, 'tis a good time for JP game lovers!

All signs point to Samurai Shodown being next on the docket. And I, for one, can't wait for that.

Even more so if Neo_G gets to be the game's director, and gets to go full-speed with his vision of what a SS game can be like.

After all these years SamSho is still pretty unique in the genre and has it's own distinct feel and play style, combine that with a more brutal approach (that Neo_G suggests) and they could have a real winner on their hands.

It would be great if they took a more serious approach to gameplay with a bigger focus on pokes, precision, movement etc. rather than combos.

At the Evo SamSho 2 tournament this year one round ended in about two hits because one of the players really nailed a hard slash (which took more than half life and caused dizzy lol?) and then finished it with a second slash.

Overall such a style of play would probably also make it more accessible due to lower focus on execution.
 
By the way guys, I've encountered two people yesterday that didn't know about the demo
due to a thread I made.I will be posting on the demo thread from now on, I'm willing to bet more neogafers have not found out about it.
 

Amedo310

Member
- The first combo you can juggle a stand C after it if you time the super cancel properly like you did in the video. You think it's worth doing the safejump over the extra damage from stand C into a possible meaty setup? (I am not sure if you can meaty yet I haven't tested it, but hypothetically)

Getting the cl. C after happens at random for me, so I can't depend on it, but if you can do it consistently, go for it. You can do a safe jump afterwards along with the meaty.


- I have been doing the third combo but ending it with a stand D reset into light fan. The fan seems to hit meaty and then if they roll you can chase it down and try to punish. This however doesn't work at all ranges and that safejump will come in very handy in corner situations where the fan would whiff.


Funny thing about that combo is that I've playing with a meaty set-up that involves her rush combo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtU2rZZoRA

Edit: Also seconding the need for clarification about the quickmax/close normal thing. I did notice that Mai's close C gets more range after activating but close D isn't gaining nearly as much range? Is this a universal trait for all normals or one normal per character?

Badwolf and HOS have pointed out Far normals still come out on the first attack at the start of quick max so my previous statement was wrong.

I believe normals having different ranges depends on their hitboxes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of hitboxes, the anti-air hitbox or the last hit of Kyo's cr. C does 30 dmg.
 

Young Magus

Junior Member
At the Evo SamSho 2 tournament this year one round ended in about two hits because one of the players really nailed a hard slash (which took more than half life and caused dizzy lol?) and then finished it with a second slash.

Bruh, is there a link to this tournament?
 

BadWolf

Member
Speaking of hitboxes, the anti-air hitbox or the last hit of Kyo's cr. C does 30 dmg.

His close st. C has been nerfed as well. It's two hits now so it can be used for hit confirms on its own but other than that for combo purposes the 2 hits means that it's damage has been reduced (since you will be canceling after the 1st hit) and it also no longer seems to have 3 frame start up.

Bruh, is there a link to this tournament?

Sure: https://www.twitch.tv/entropyfails/v/78477120
 

Relique

Member
Getting the cl. C after happens at random for me, so I can't depend on it, but if you can do it consistently, go for it. You can do a safe jump afterwards along with the meaty.

The way to get the cl. C juggle is to super cancel early, timing it as soon as the 2nd hit of her qcb C connects. I believe in the video you linked it was done properly. The good news is that you can get a visual indicator if the juggle will work or not based on the number of hits in the combo. I forgot the exact number because you can use different starters but if you do the same comboa few times, the failed version will have one less hit than the juggle version so you can opt to go for the other safejump instead.

I also noticed that timing the cancel at those frames increases the damage. Just doing the simple combo cr. B, cr. A, qcb C, 2 bar kagero no mai. If you do it early or late it does a lot less damage than timing the cancel exactly when the 2nd hit connects. I'll experiment with this more.
 
Guys the A.I is broken - I will post a video later or tomorrow.

If anyone can can beat me to it, be my guest.

Okay so first off, go to options and put the game difficulty to LV5 (max difficulty btw)

Grab for example Kyo,
Now during the match all you have to do is hold back + down and spam low kick (square)

That's it.

A real shame :(

If anyone remembers, this is exactly how you beat balrog in vanilla SF 2.

Note:(this method works best in the corners)
I've tried it against Nelson, sylvie,shunei, I'm sure it will work with the rest, I will confirm tomorrow.
 

El Sabroso

Member
well it's demo AI, until I can get a Mai vs Antonov and Antonov does not move until Mai moves like all past KoF bosses, cannot tell if AI is broken or not
 

N4Us

Member
Guys the A.I is broken - I will post a video later or tomorrow.

If anyone can can beat me to it, be my guest.

Okay so first off, go to options and put the game difficulty to LV5 (max difficulty btw)

Grab for example Kyo,
Now during the match all you have to do is hold back + down and spam low kick (square)

That's it.

A real shame :(

If anyone remembers, this is exactly how you beat balrog in vanilla SF 2.

Note:(this method works best in the corners)
I've tried it against Nelson, sylvie,shunei, I'm sure it will work with the rest, I will confirm tomorrow.

Yeah, typical AI exploits. Everyone in XIII lost to Clark's b grab. Other than this though, I gotta say this AI's a lot more challenging than XIII's was.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
I remember my favorite way to beat Rugal back in the day was with Mary's SPIII-DAH leaping grab. It'd go over his pulsing Kaiser Wave projectiles, and land the hit nearly every time.

Remember doing her Straight Slice a lot on Orochi back in the Saturn Days, as well.

I don't mind A.I. with an exploitable weakness, as long as they're fun or interesting to fight when you actually try to fight them properly. Real opponents often have flaws that you have to identify and exploit, so having that on a CPU is actually a bit of a preference, because it makes them seem more human-like.

Question, I've been living under a rock with respects to this game. What's been revealed about story so far?

Start off on the official site's Character Pages. And the... err.. Story Page too, though it's not much. And the Story Trailer.

That's everything we officially know, besides what can be inferred by the huge amount of "generic" win quotes in the demo (character VS character ones aren't in the demo build, but have shown up a lot in live build plays.)
 

Loona

Member
Question, I've been living under a rock with respects to this game. What's been revealed about story so far?

Apparent new guy Antonov claims to be the first KoF champ but hasn't appeared in any prior games (under that name, at least) and organizes the new tournament, and gets to personally invite a team that includes a former NESTS reject (Sylvie) and Kukri, whom nobody seems to know a thing about - but whom based on the Story trailer might have some relevance to the wider story.

The wider story seems to involve some entity somehow associated with new Chinese protagonist Shun-ei, whose abilities involve these giant hands apparently formed from different kinds of energy (I wonder if the final boss, or story arc that may involve later games, has something to do with the rest of the body that's supposed to be attached to them...).
Shun'ei is apprenticed to Fatal Fury series veteran and grandmaster Tung Fu Rue, who has taught others in the setting like Geese Howard (who is also in the game, and may have something to say regarding Antonov's claims, seeing as in the Art of Fighting/Fatal Fury continuity, Geese was the one to create the KoF tournament). Other than Shun'ei, Tung brings another student with him, Meitenkun, who uses some form of sleepy-looking kung fu, but is actually the first SNK character instructed by Tung to have multiple special moves that resemble his.

Kyo is always involved in the major KoF story arcs in some way, indirect as it may be, and according to the story trailer, his father appears to know something about the final boss.

Most interestingly, the Another World team's sheer presence in the game hints at some multiversal story developments, as Nakoruru, Muimui and Love Heart are from completely different settings to that of KoF and other modern-day titles like the Fatal Fury series - and according to Muimui's win quote against Shun'ei, they're actually in pursuit of the final boss, meaning it must have been present in their universes, and something must have enabled them to follow it to the KoF world - this could open some interesting doors... or expand on the fact that characters from Samurai shodown, Last Blade and the Fu'un series have been present before in KoF, in stages or as strikers in KoF2000...
 

Loona

Member
Has Wild Leona been confirmed for this game? If not, any chance it gets announced in the trailer?

Seems unlikely, although her hair turns red during high-level supers like in XIII, IIRC.
She's all about trying to keep that stuff under control - then again, who knows, maybe later down the line a DLC skin could reference that look... if Geese's Nightmae skin can change his voice, one for Leona changing things like her posture, facial expressions, and making her scream more might not be impossible, I just wouldn't expect anything that would affect her collision boxes.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Has Wild Leona been confirmed for this game? If not, any chance it gets announced in the trailer?
lol

Here in argentina we called it Leona and Iori Zombie. lol
 

BadWolf

Member
Seems unlikely, although her hair turns red during high-level supers like in XIII, IIRC.
She's all about trying to keep that stuff under control - then again, who knows, maybe later down the line a DLC skin could reference that look... if Geese's Nightmae skin can change his voice, one for Leona changing things like her posture, facial expressions, and making her scream more might not be impossible, I just wouldn't expect anything that would affect her collision boxes.

I'm hoping they make it like 02 again some day, where she could sacrifice half her life mid match to go berserk.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros
 
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

Training mode for me. I need to know what my boy Xanadu can do, as well as other characters.

After that, it'll be the story/arcade mode.
 

Relique

Member
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros

Gonna get in there with an online friend and play a first to whoever passes out first.
 
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros
Story. I love fighting game lore, especially knowing who's related to who and who's canonically stronger than the majority of the cast.
 

BadWolf

Member
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros

Training mode and then hit story mode with Kim's team, gotta see what the story is about and unlock the bosses.
 

Loona

Member
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros

I already tried Training mode in the demo - I'm heading stright to the Story mode with the Another World team, I love me some multiverse stories.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
"That time of the Month" Leona was the first time I heard of the character being refered to as anything other than "Wild" or "Orochi". It... makes more sense than I'd have initially thought, heh.

What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros

Hittin up a fighter the way it's meant to be played: LOCAL VS, lol. After a few hoursrounds of that, I'll probably want to earn Antonov and FINAL BOSS PERSON.

Before I get all into reading every move list in detail and breaking down each and every option of a character, I like to just feel them out, and play like I would in the arcades. While I DID often read strategy guides and magazine specials on the way to arcades back in the day, I love the feel of doing the real learning on the battlefield.
 
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?

Goin' ham on Training mode?

This, I want to check out Ramon, Angel, Alice and Gang-Il in particular.

Local VS will most likely have to wait either for the first monthly/Weekly or for some people to come back from their vacation lol.
 
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros

Netcode.
It's all or nothing.
 
What's the first thing you'll do after booting up the game for the first time?
  • Goin' ham on Training mode?
  • Straight up to test the netcode?
  • Story mode time!

In my case im going straight up to Story Mode to pick Iori's team :3
I really care about the KOF lore, deal with it bros

That 3 vs 3 team play online 6 player party !
 

butman

Member
KOF XIV |OT| Now it comes and here we go. KOF is here again. Nothing's gonna stop, 'cause it's 2016.
 

BadWolf

Member
Fingers crossed for the netcode, really hope they deliver something solid.

Nailing it will benefit their future games as well.
 
If the netcode is at least as good as Street Fighter 4's netcode, then I think the online component will be just fine.

Just a couple more weeks, and we'll see for ourselves...
 

Xevren

Member
Getting so excited for this to come out, I have no idea how I'm going to juggle this and the new Deus Ex. Really excited for both!
 
Top Bottom