Can you please explain to me what made the party scene in Versus XIII so appealing? I honestly do not understand this attachment some of you have. And this is coming from someone that was in high school when Versus XIII was first revealed and waited years and years for more information along with the rest of you. The party scene was never what excited me about Versus XIII. All we ever had from it was a graphically incomplete cutscene of Noctis meeting Stella with no voice acting, Somnus as the music, and some Amano artwork in the background. Other than that, it was only the promise of an escape after the party was attacked. Is it just that you had 10 years to build up that scene in your head? Because IMO what they provided to us in the Versus days from the party scene was never very exciting.
Sorry, I like rambling about this, so... huge post incoming.
I too enjoyed the party scene from Kingsglaive, but the one from Versus was much, much better. Not only because of the character interactions, which were excellent, as described by Setsu00, but also its very stylish direction. And I feel that's what made Versus most attractive.
First off, the cinematography of every bit of footage we've seen from Versus is miles better than anything we've seen from XV or Kingsglaive (except for the Nomura-directed E3 2013 trailer). I'm talking about camerawork, shot composition, colors, etc. And then you have the musical direction, which was much stronger in Versus.
As for the party scene specifically, here's a fandub of the party scene, which should give an idea of what the scene would have sounded like voiced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_x5k9h1Hg
Here's what stood out to me:
Noctis hesitatingly climbs up the set of stairs at the beginning and even stops halfway like he's mustering up the courage to go talk to Stella. Note how the music is also very slow but kind of foreboding at this point. There's a little weird camera movement at 0:09 but this probably just needed to be fine-tuned more.
The composition of the shot at 0:23 is just fantastic. Not only is it just Noct's point of view, but the way it shows Stella standing up and looking at the painting being held by a huge, dark reaper statue is very chilling. It looks as if she is fascinated but also scared, as indicated by the way she clutches her hands.
Speaking of fascinated, we also see Noctis staring at something with wider eyes than usual at 0:27. But what is he looking at?
0:32: The music picks up, this must be an important moment for the viewer/Noctis. We see Stella turn around in slow-motion, and the shot is from Noctis's point of view but zoomed in on her face: yep, Noctis definitely just had his eyes on her (not on the artwork or the light). The scene also accentuates her beautifully waving hair and the way she starts to smile after seeing Noctis: Stella seems to like seeing him.
I mostly like the intro to this scene, but as for the rest of the conversation, the music follows its flow perfectly. It's an adapted version of Somnus created specifically to accompany this scene, while in Kingsglaive they just put a normal instrumental version of Somnus in the background and were done with it. The music there does not accentuate any details in the scene and only barely follows the flow of the conversation.
1:53 - I love how the view changes here just to show Stella's little shiver. Great touch.
The scene introduces the concept of "gods" in this world. Not only is the story about one and do you have the painting in the foreground (it's definitely in the background in Kingsglaive, but not here), but even the camerawork reflects it with views with Noctis/Stella looking up at 2:18 and 3:30 making it feel like something is watching them. Creepy.
Basically, I love great cinematography, I love music that accentuates every little detail and I love when there are many little details to accentuate. Versus XIII had all of that, and Kingsglaive and FFXV so far have very little of it.
While Versus might not have been very complete at all beyond the Insomnia invasion, this all shows that a lot of thought went into each scene and into each piece of music that was completed. Which reminds me -- I remember Yoko Shimomura mentioning in one interview that Nomura was pushing her to the brink to create better music all the time while she mentioned in another that Tabata is giving her a lot of freedom. This isn't bad per se, but it seems to imply that Nomura was much more demanding in this aspect and really wanted everything to fit his vision, while Tabata is more sloppy in that aspect. I'm guessing it is the same for the cinematography, since we haven't seen anything like the first minute of the 2011 trailer's superb direction ever since Nomura's E3 2013 trailer (discussion: here).
Shouldn't we be open to the possibility of Noctis and Luna's "establishing moment" being just as appealing? As far as I know, there has been no footage of Noctis and Luna together except for when they were kids. Noctis hasn't seen Luna for 10+ years, right? I'm very interested to see how they act together. They might have been friendly as kids, but people change. Maybe their relationship will be very similar to what we knew of Noctis and Stella's, although there wasn't very much to go off of.
I hope so! I really want FFXV to be good. I don't think it's very likely that the cinematography and musical direction will suddenly improve halfway through the game, but if the character interactions get better then that will be very interesting to see.
Byvar, I feel like you're looking at the Kingsglaive party scene as if the intention was for it to be a recreation of the original party scene when it was not. They weren't trying to exceed that scene IMO. They were simply giving nods so that we the viewers could go "oh hey that's Somnus. Oh hey that's the painting. Oh hey this is the same party, just not with Noctis or even under the same circumstances." It was just some fan service. Seems fans are looking at it very differently though. While I looked at it as a cool little homage, others are looking at it and once again getting caught up in the fantasy of what Versus XIII could have been.
Byvar, I feel like you're looking at the Kingsglaive party scene as if the intention was for it to be a recreation of the original party scene when it was not. They weren't trying to exceed that scene IMO. They were simply giving nods so that we the viewers could go "oh hey that's Somnus. Oh hey that's the painting. Oh hey this is the same party, just not with Noctis or even under the same circumstances." It was just some fan service. Seems fans are looking at it very differently though. While I looked at it as a cool little homage, others are looking at it and once again getting caught up in the fantasy of what Versus XIII could have been.
Byvar, I feel like you're looking at the Kingsglaive party scene as if the intention was for it to be a recreation of the original party scene when it was not.
Not at all -- as I said I liked the Kingsglaive scene and I agree that it was just fanservice (like a lot of the film) and a way to use the assets that they had already created. I was just responding to your question on what made the Versus party scene so appealing on itself, not in comparison to the Kingsglaive scene. I did compare it to Kingsglaive a few times to explain why other people may be disappointed by the Kingsglaive scene, but personally I wasn't, since I know that whether it was the intention to recreate the same scene or not, too many things are different to consider it a different version of the same scene.
Anyway, I'll post some impressions of the film itself later. I'm a bit tired now after writing an essay on the Versus party scene.
Byvar, I feel like you're looking at the Kingsglaive party scene as if the intention was for it to be a recreation of the original party scene when it was not. They weren't trying to exceed that scene IMO. They were simply giving nods so that we the viewers could go "oh hey that's Somnus. Oh hey that's the painting. Oh hey this is the same party, just not with Noctis or even under the same circumstances." It was just some fan service. Seems fans are looking at it very differently though. While I looked at it as a cool little homage, others are looking at it and once again getting caught up in the fantasy of what Versus XIII could have been.
I don't disagree with your last two points at all. I'm just saying that IMO the party scene in Kingsglaive was an entirely separate thing to the one we saw in Versus XIII way back because it was under different circumstances and with different characters. Hence why I looked at the musical choice and painting in the background as a sort of fan service and reminder that this is still the same world to that of Versus.
The two are sort of running simultaneously with Brotherhood also having flashbacks to the past of the four main guys. I think you really could go either way, although for some reason I'm inclined to say watch Brotherhood first. It's actually really well done.
The two are sort of running simultaneously with Brotherhood also having flashbacks to the past of the four main guys. I think you really could go either way, although for some reason I'm inclined to say watch Brotherhood first. It's actually really well done.
If that's the case, wouldn't I want to watch Brotherhood last so I am still hyped on FFXV instead of discouraged by Kingsglaive? I expect it to be bad based on reactions.
I really liked Advent Children (once I got over it ruining the ending of FFVII as my interpretation was always that everyone was dead) and Spirits Within (beautiful music, imagery, and I found the gaia story interesting). So maybe I'll actually like Kingsglaive? My tolerance to forgive or ignore things in stories I like is pretty good (like ignoring the chuchu character in Xenogears).
I really liked Advent Children (once I got over it ruining the ending of FFVII as my interpretation was always that everyone was dead) and Spirits Within (beautiful music, imagery, and I found the gaia story interesting). So maybe I'll actually like Kingsglaive? My tolerance to forgive or ignore things in stories I like is pretty good (like ignoring the chuchu character in Xenogears).
There are a few things that happened in Brotherhood that I felt bettered my understanding of Kingsglaive. And although I prefer Brotherhood, I really enjoyed Kingsglaive. I think you have the right expectations going into Kingsglaive to enjoy it as well.
I have to agree here. People act like Versus was some kind of amazing different game that was cut off at the knees and then XV was brought in as a second-rate imposter.
But it isn't, it's just what happens when you develop a game or film or any story - it changes.
People hear behind the scenes interviews of games and movies and then cry out "Why didn't we get that?" or "Why was that cut?" And the reason is usually a good one - it wasn't working.
I have to agree here. People act like Versus was some kind of amazing different game that was cut off at the knees and then XV was brought in as a second-rate imposter.
But it isn't, it's just what happens when you develop a game or film or any story - it changes.
People hear behind the scenes interviews of games and movies and then cry out "Why didn't we get that?" or "Why was that cut?" And the reason is usually a good one - it wasn't working.
Sort of, but there was a hard divide between old project and new, a switch of creative leads, etc.
I accept that things change in development all the time, but I actually do think this is a new project built from the scraps of the old.
It does seem to me that the similar scenes in Kingsglaive are more like "homage" to the Versus trailer, rather than just the exact scene that evolved into what it is in the movie. The point of Noctis meeting Stella was a prelude to a romance, like the early scene in Romeo and Juliet. The Nyx and Luna scene didn't function similarly at all. It was mainly to deliver exposition. I think they set it up like the original scene to either be an Easter egg for versus fans or to actually deliver on what they promised in versus... But I don't think that it's the original plan evolved.
So with the Kingsglaive's power coming from the King, does it mean that Noctis' crew will get some powers from him at some point? Since they are basically his own little Kingsglaives.
So with the Kingsglaive's power coming from the King, does it mean that Noctis' crew will get some powers from him at some point? Since they are basically his own little Kingsglaives.
So I rewatched some parts of this and had a startling realization, the party scene simultaneously has the best and worst facial animation in the entire film. It's hilarious, Luna's face looks like it's about to fall off as she smiles while talking. While the animation on Nyx's face is full of some really great subtleties, especially the way his eyes move around.
I agree. I honestly feel the four dudes are the least interesting characters in the game and Brotherhood hasn't really helped me grow attached to them. I feel like the NPCs like Luna and Ardyn are far more interesting than they are.
This is part of why I'm really not crazy about the whole road trip concept, but oh well. C'est la vie.
I agree. I honestly feel the four dudes are the least interesting characters in the game and Brotherhood hasn't really helped me grow attached to them. I feel like the NPCs like Luna and Ardyn are far more interesting than they are.
This is part of why I'm really not crazy about the whole road trip concept, but oh well. C'est la vie.
disagree, the bros might be divisive but im not in love with the rest of the cast so far to say they are much better, kinda generic to be honest, its the main characters who will make or break the plot.
disagree, the bros might be divisive but im not in love with the rest of the cast so far to say they are much better, kinda generic to be honest, its the main characters who will make or break the plot.
I like Ardyn so far and I think Luna deserves better than what she's getting. The bros are just one-dimensional tropes that do nothing for me. I can't feel connected to them at all, which is a shame because that's apparently the whole point of them being the party.
Objectively a 5/10 due to pacing issues and incomprehensible editing of the action scenes. 6/10 for my personal enjoyment, I liked it well enough. The middle part of the movie is by far the strongest, especially when compared to the seizure inducing action in the beginning and end portions. I really liked the whole
treaty signing
part. Voice acting is either quite decent or very bland. I have no idea how they approved the voice of Libertus, it was one of the weakest performances I have heard in any medium.
It may fail as a standalone but seen as a 2 hour game prologue I think it works quite well.
I like Ardyn so far and I think Luna deserves better than what she's getting. The bros are just one-dimensional tropes that do nothing for me. I can't feel connected to them at all, which is a shame because that's apparently the whole point of them being the party.
I remember Yoko Shimomura mentioning in one interview that Nomura was pushing her to the brink to create better music all the time while she mentioned in another that Tabata is giving her a lot of freedom. This isn't bad per se, but it seems to imply that Nomura was much more demanding in this aspect and really wanted everything to fit his vision, while Tabata is more sloppy in that aspect.
Gonna just say this is a huge leap of logic based on two sentences from two different people from two different interviews more than a few years apart.
I saw it last night and enjoyed it as a prologue for the game. I went with a friend of mine who is a Final Fantasy fan but doesn't follow information as much as I do about the game. He also really liked it but found some parts of the story hard to follow (like who was from what country).
I saw Kingsglaive a few weeks ago, but wanted to wait until the digital version was out to collect my thoughts on it. For me personally, I think it's the strongest of the films that Square has put out, which admittedly isn't saying much. AC - while I'm disturbed to think how many times I've watched it over the years - has the stilted pacing of a drunken snail, and continually lacked a lot of flow between scenes. It's been a long time since I've seen The Spirits Within, but I'd put it between Kingsglaive and AC on the 'kinda cohesive film scale'. As a lot of people said, the editing in the fight scenes in Kingsglaive wasn't really coherent, and lacked a lot of logic behind the cuts. It was really frustrating to see, especially when the visuals are so fantastic. The pacing saved Kingsglaive for me. During the lead up to the treaty scene, and the horrifying fallout afterwards, I definitely became a lot more invested in the film. I had a lot of complaints with Kingsglaive, but I thoroughly enjoyed myself in spite of the issues. Gimme an artbook, Square, stat.
The localisation was really hit or miss, and the inappropriately placed quips have definitely carried over from what we've seen of FFXV. Libertus was really guilty of this, which created a bit of dissonance with his character, as he's pretty high strung to be suddenly calmly quipping in stressful situations. (Libertus was awful in general.) Some of Nyx's quips worked, as he was a calmer character that took most things in stride, but some still felt really out of place. I think if the writing was a bit less clichéd, it wouldn't be so noticeable. As it's stands, it's almost like a neon sign pops up, saying 'eeeey, it's quip time!' The voice acting for both the main and supporting cast were also a bit all over the place. I remember hearing Stupid Sexy Jamieson Price pop up voicing a random Kingsglaive member, and he did a better job in a few seconds that most of the cast did the entire film. With both FFXV and Kingsglaive, it's frustrating to think the amount of money spent on both products (let alone the legacy that FF has), and yet both end up with a bit of weak localisation and casting.
I was surprised that I did actually enjoy Nyx as a character, even though I felt Aaron Paul's voice didn't quite sync with the design. He had some really lovely and subtle little facial movements. Since Nyx was such an underdog throughout the film - tirelessly pushing forward when other characters would not - it was hard not to cheer for him. I hope he does get referenced in FFXV, considering everything he goes through for Lucis over the course of Kingsglaive. Definitely the MVP, sheesh.
Oh, Luna Headey, what to do with you! Lena Headey did a great job with what she had, and it was a bit of a shame Luna's lip-syncing didn't quite sync to her performance. Headey gave Luna a more ethereal, wise-beyond-her-years tone that I really enjoyed. I was frustrated with Luna as a character, though. On the one hand, she's incredibly brave and sure of herself, and has some mad jumping skills. On the other hand, she was just shuffled around as the plot demanded. She never quite got out of the damsel territory for me, though thankfully she was rarely in distress. I am concerned about her character going into FFXV, as the game (already quite light on the positive female cast front) has its female lead's motivations primarily centred on the male lead. The Final Fantasy series has surprisingly been quite good about this issue with its female leads over the years. Their character arcs aren't usually tied down to the male leads outside of romance. Only FFIV's Rosa and FFVII's Tifa come to mind as being character roles similar to Luna. I do think it will be better in FFXV with the Oracle aspect to Luna's character. Whilst I understand the team were probably trying to keep the exposition lighter in Kingsglaive, I think removing that component to her character made her feel more like Rapunzel stuck in her tower. I'm curious to how she'll work as a temporary party member, as outside of those aforementioned mad jumping skills, she wasn't all that physically confident or capable. If nothing else, her fashion was always on point. R-e-s-p-e-c-t.
Speaking of which, I wasn't hugely impressed with the roles the ladies played in Kingsglaive in general.
Crowe was the obligatory One of the Guys, then fridged for Libertus' plot motivation.
Luna got shuffled around as was needed. There also weren't any women in the Kingsglaive itself, which was quite jarring. The addition of women to Regis' council was a nice change from the Versus days, though, along with some added diversity amongst the men. Yay!
On a more positive note, Regis Stark absolutely stole the show for me, and this is from someone who still is bemoaning his redesign. RIP DILF!Regis. Regis was a great combination of tight lip-syncing, nuanced acting from Jon Campling, and really solid voice work from Sean Bean. There was a great synergy between all aspects of his character. Clarus was another character where it felt like all three components came together really well, and the scenes with him and Regis interacting were some of my favourites. Crowe felt the weakest, despite having a fantastic design. Her lip sync was off, and the voice actress didn't feel appropriate for the character.
I'm sure Ardyn will be the obligatory the bait-n-switch villain (urrgh), but it's Glauca that felt like standout villain, and the character that felt the most relevant to Noctis' journey. Since he does seem to be in FFXV, I'm looking forward to beating the hell out of that piece of shit. Glauca feels like the Gabranth of FFXV, whilst, you know, being infinitely more of an asshole. Ravus was a complete disappointment in comparison, which was a shame, as Jaime Ravuster was finnnnne. Ravusroth in FFXV looks so much... well, like AC!Sephiroth. At any rate, I'm really looking forward to seeing more interactions from Ravus and Luna in FFXV, I hope they do more with their dynamic. (Not in the Game of Thrones way, though. Nope.)
Even though there were some interesting ideas behind the motivations of the various Kingsglaive members, I never really believed that so many would betray Regis and Lucis so quickly, especially after the horrors they all experienced from Niflheim in the opening of the film.
It all felt a bit paper thin.
My biggest concern after Kingsglaive that I keep coming back to, is that a lot of these set-up character moments should be in the game. (They very well could be, for all I know.) Before Kingsglaive, I kinda cared that Lucis had fallen, and Luna was on a mission to get a ring to Noctis. After Kingsglaive, I'm infinitely more invested. We saw Lucis as a vibrant, lively city. We then saw Lucis fall, and knew all those that had a hand in its devastation. I saw everything Regis, Nyx, and Luna went through to get the ring to Noctis. There was a more unique dynamic with Regis and Luna that we wouldn't have seen otherwise.
Oh man, when a self-sacrificing Regis mirrored Luna's actions from the beginning of the film, except this time she's reaching for him instead of the reverse - ow.
The precarious situation Regis had been in all these years was particularly interesting. Seeing him desperately trying to protect his country whilst trying to sustain the wall definitely gave some extra perspective in regards to him as a character. I enjoyed the friendship between Regis and Clarus, too, which is then mirrored in Noctis and Gladio.
Everything to do with Drautos' betrayal felt particularly important, considering he's the one who kills Regis and is one of the primary instigators in bringing down the kingdom. It would be like removing the beginning of FFXII, which sets up both Vaan's and Basch's motivations beautifully. Or removing the set-up scenes with Scar from The Lion King.
Brotherhood also brought with it a lot of interesting subtleties, especially relating to Noctis. His depression and fear in regards to potentially losing his father was genuinely compelling. I don't have an easy answer on how this all could have been incorporated without having a sluggish prologue to the game, but I still think there were lots of important moments there that did need to be in the game. While FFXV has a snappy beginning, I worry that it's going to suffer character wise throughout for delegating these important moments to an anime series and a separate film. It's not the best comparison, but it almost feels like we've started halfway through The Lion King, with the set-up via young Simba being a separate animated series, and the the big shock of Scar's betrayal is a separate film. The events of Kingsglaive being a mystery that Noctis has to put together is potentially interesting, but I don't think revenge will be nearly as sweet if the player didn't see the events unfold, again, like Scar/Mufasa. (I know I should be going for a Hamlet comparison here, but fuck it, Lion King it is.) FFVII and FFX did a pretty good job with their flashbacks, so it will be interesting to see if or how FFXV utilises them. I think Tabata mentioned there would be some? Where the heck was Cor the whole time, by the way? I suppose we'll find out.
At the end of the day, seeing the Diamond Weapon in all its glory was worth the price of admission.
Cerberus, Ultros, Nyx smack talking the kings, and then going on a rampage with the guardians was icing on the fan-service cake. You've got big shoes to live up to on the Diamond Weapon/KotR front, FFVII:R!
Also, what the heck is the logo on the patch the Kingsglaive wear?
Is it Bahamut/Diablos/that one horned knight/Warring Triad?
I'm also curious how/what the heck the small horn that Regis and co seemed to have. I'm assuming it's relevant to whatever creature is on the patch.
TL;DR Version - Kingsglaive has many issues, but great pacing throughout made up for other flaws. Regis Stark was a scene stealer. I'm concerned that vital character set-up moments won't be included in the main game, as they've been used in Kingsglaive/Brotherhood instead. Also, there were a few dodgy references to The Lion King in the above mini-essay, which was kinda sad. Huh. Does that mean Timon is Prompto/Ignis, and Gladio is Pumba? Why, when he was a young warthog...
Me and my friends laughed our asses off during this whole movie.
The opening fight was fun even if it was goofy and incoherent, but after that the movie just went off the rails. While the CG is excellent, it's ruined by the other technical aspects of the film being all over the place. Mainly the editing and voice acting. The editing here is horrible and clutters up even the most simple scenes to make them confusing There's a lot of good actors here, but clearly whoever was directing them just had no clue what the fuck they were doing. Aaron Paul, one of my favorite actors, sounds terrible in this and that's the only reasoning I can come up with.
The characters were also mostly bad. I guess maybe there's some lore we were missing but we barely got any time with any of these people or this world so it's hard to care about what's going on. I enjoyed Regis every time he was on screen but when he was gone is when I checked out the movie. The other characters just kind of acted unreasonably or were just goofy.
Luna in particular pretty much does fucking nothing but get carted around. and it makes me worry about the game itself. "Inner strength" can only take a character so far.
But yeah overall: Garbage. Hoping the actual game's story isn't anything like this this
He's a damn good double agent apparently. He's the reason Reagis created of Kingsglaive in the first place (the attack in Tenebrae), yet he's the one in command of it.
It's strange that Gentiana was a no show in Kingsglaive, since she seems to be Luna's bodyguard and Luna is travelling to enemy's territory, you would think Gentiana should be by her side or something.
