-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Kobe Bryant Scores 60 points in his final game.
- Thread starter The Chef
- Start date
- Status
dragonyeuw
Member
Their 'system' is predicated on having enough secondary weapons around Steph that he doesn't have to break their offensive sets. He can play within the offense, and he's such a versatile shooter. There's nothing however, just from watching Steph play, to indicate any lack of 'capability' in creating his own shot. His handles are elite, like all-time great elite, coupled with all-time great range and accuracy. There's been plenty of times where he's broken a guy down off the dribble and either gotten off a 3, or gone to the rim, where he also finishes as a high clip.
So he's not just a 30 foot bomber, this guy has one of the all-time great offensive skillsets highlighted by high volume, game breaking 3 point shooting ability. The previous mark of a great 3 point shooter was a guy that could shoot 40 percent on 4-5 attempts a game. Curry is shooting 45% on 11 attempts a game, this is redefining the parameters of great shooting. Your comment makes it sound like he's a system player, which I don't agree with.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
They were doubling the man at the three point line, fam. Come on now...
Fenderputty
Banned
The NBA decided to crush the Utah fanbase in one night because Kobe.
Except for wanting to play for the Lakers or for money, I dont see why he'd leave either.
And doesn't GS have the ability to offer a Max Contract higher than anybody else?
I guess if GS foolishly low balled him and attempted to entice him without offering him the max dollar amount I could see him bouncing for a "larger market".
They can get curry for max and sign another max free agent. He has no reason at all to leave.
Loved his performance last night. Loved him shooting so much. Loved that last five minutes when he couldn't miss. Loved seeing everyone in the crowd in awe and going nuts like it's the 2010 Game 7 Finals. Loved that they needed his 60 to win. Loved that the other Lakers knew if they were going to shoot, it had better be a dunk or another spectacular move. Loved the Kobe haters commercial. Loved Kanye loving Kobe.
Only way this could have been better is if he scored 101 points, but 60 is amazing. Mamba out.
Only way this could have been better is if he scored 101 points, but 60 is amazing. Mamba out.
Yeah, I don't think he'd do it under those circumstances. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he did though. But if he did, he'd have the entire Laker Stage to himself which hasn't been the case in LA since before Kobe, so there's that of course. But it isn't the logical play to make if you want to ride out this potential multi-championship winning run that they look geared up to go on.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Curry has the entire country stage to himself. He's the top dog. Doesn't need LA.
I guess what I should have said it is not his strength to create his shot via his athleticism, but more so from his skill.
He is definitely not a system player IMO. His stats benefited from playing in a more wide open offense under Kerr, but that would be true of pretty much every player so only an idiot would hold that against him.
For me Curry is taking the mantle from Kobe as being the most entertaining player in the league to watch. Lebron was far more physically dominant than either player, but for me personally I have always preferred skill over power.
Look I'm a long time Kings fan (back all the way to 2001 in the rivalry series) and I've never liked Kobe (his personality, not his abilities), but this is the best thing he's ever done.
That's an awesome video. Even I'll go ahead and say damn, what a fantastic basketball player.
One of the best ever. Good for him that he was able to go out on such a crazy high note.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Jim Buss is gonna max deal one or two of the following:
DeMar DeRozan
Hasan Whiteside
Harrison Barnes
and we will riot.
You have my Molotov...
RunTheBrules
Member
I think Shaq is great and all, but I don't get why people think he's top ten. Pound for pound, I think Kobe, LBJ, AI, etc. had better skill. I open to correction, but no way is Shaq in my top 10.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
You clearly only started watching Basketball in 2008.
dragonyeuw
Member
Ok but what difference does it make? If he can create his own shot, then he can create his own shot. That actually bodes well for his game aging well because his skillset isn't overly reliant on athleticism like an Iverson, or a modern example: Derrick Rose. Strip away that incredible athleticism and you're left with an above average player at best. Even after Curry becomes a role player 7-8 years from now, that kind of shooting prowess is going to make him valuable to any team even if he's just used as a spot-up shooter. Ray Allen and Reggie Miller's shooting kept them in the league when they were 39-40 years old.
dragonyeuw
Member
Skill is relative to position. A guard's skills and a centers are two different things, so skill is kind of a weird thing to use as a gauge here. And skill-wise, while Shaq was known for his power he was actually fundamentally sound in post play. Not Hakeem-level in terms of moveset, but a small range of baby hooks, bankers and drop-steps/spin moves complimented by tremendous power.
Shaq is EASILY a top ten player all-time. In fact, had he stayed in better shape, not fallen out with Kobe and won a few more titles, and been at least a 65-70% foul shooter and not such a liability down the stretch, he could have credibly challenged MJ as an arguable GOAT. He was that dominant at his peak.
Only half the Jazz team played, so I don't think many people cared that Kobe went off. Dude would have never got anywhere near the rim with Favors and Gobert playing. Still, 60 is an accomplishment, despite the 50 shots and the relaxed attitude from the Jazz.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
And if the "scorer" on the other team is more efficient with his shots? What happens then?
Who's in your top 10 and how is Shaq not in it
DearestJuliet
Banned
Holy bejeezus at the Kobe salt in this thread. Yikes.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and look back on what this guy has accomplished in 20 years. Amazing player regardless of his position on the GOAT list.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and look back on what this guy has accomplished in 20 years. Amazing player regardless of his position on the GOAT list.
Shaq is arguably not a top 3 center.
Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, etc. It is hard to put Shaq above any of those 4 (especially Kareem). You could argue he is top 3 for sure though.
I don't get why NBA fans are so obsessed with lists. Especially when most only know Magic, Larry and Jordan as past great players....
DasPenguin
Member
Really hard to say "easily". Agreed, he was super dominant for a 3 year stretch, but not as dominant otherwise. Really really good but those 3 seasons stand out. If I have to take a center, give me Kareem or Hakeem before Shaq.
Finally people are putting Kareem at the top in their "all time" lists. He was missing from the conversation for years. Which is incredible when the guy had a peak so long that he had time to dominate both Wilt and Hakeem. Don't even have to mention numbers and accomplishments because those put him right up there with the GOAT conversation. And he played before charter flights became the norm, which is incredible.
Won't argue for Russell or Wilt, but Wilt should be up there on numbers alone. Didn't see either of them play outside of a few games on tape so hard to comment. Factor in all the other positions in basketball and Shaq is borderline top 10. Somewhere in that range but never top 5. Ever ever ever. For that 3 year stretch then yes, but that's not his whole career.
Fluffhead14
Member
anyone shitting on that performance last night needs to get a grip.
it was a celebration and a meaningless game.
it was a celebration and a meaningless game.
Shooting is a negative if you miss more than a replacement level player would make? This is basic math.
Honestly went to a playoff game where it was very clearly fixed. Pretty frustrating to watch.
dragonyeuw
Member
Actually it's quite easy to say. Outside his championship peak he was 23 and 14 as a rookie, 29 and 13 his second year, 29 and 13 his third year leading the Magic to the finals, and basically a 27/11 type player before the 3 year championship window. I'm not sure in what universe that's 'not as dominant'. That's not unlike someone like Jordan, who was superb from the get-go but peaked in the first 3peat.
I love Hakeem, but people tend to forget that he was a routine first round casualty for a number of years before he broke through. Hakeem himself 'peaked' between 93 and 95. In no way was his 'non-peak' years more dominant than Shaq's 'non-peak' years. Frankly much of Hakeem's reputation is based on 94 and 95, especially the 95 playoff run and famous beatdown of David Robinson. Before that period, he wasn't considered better than Robinson or Patrick Ewing for that matter. I have Kareem over Shaq in the GOAT list because he accomplished more, but there's no wide chasm as players in terms of effectiveness. The only thing keeping Shaq from being an arguable top 3 player was lack of discipline and conditioning, he burnt too many bridges when he left teams and he ring-chased his final 3 years. But IMO, he's firmly in the top 8 all-time, once you get past MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic he's very much in the tier of Duncan, Bird, and Hakeem. However you want to shuffle them around is preference, but he easily deserves a top 10 spot.
Dreams-Visions
Member
DeRosan and Whiteside and your team becomes a playoff team. Assuming Hasan doesn't lose his shit in LA.
The music to my ears commercial was 10/10
http://youtu.be/qQYz0I5dE_A
http://youtu.be/qQYz0I5dE_A
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Last night was so good. One of the GOAT.
Will continue to yell "Kobe" whenever I put something in a hole
GG Mamba ;_;
Will continue to yell "Kobe" whenever I put something in a hole
GG Mamba ;_;
DasPenguin
Member
Well to be fair, Hakeem won his titles with Otis Thorpe, Mad Max and Kenny Smith. And there lies the reason why he was a first round casualty for a long stretch of his career.
And Robinson was unbelievable. Maybe not as skilled but as an athlete. He was pretty high in steals and blocked everything is sight. Back issues ruined his last years but he got a title out of them. Ewing was incredible as well, but he wasted most of his career in bad teams and then Riley came to save him.
Kareem is in his own league to me. He had so much more to his game than the hook, which was unstoppable. Can't believe no big guys after him haven't worked on it more. His numbers took a hit when he joined the Lakers but that just goes to show what a team oriented player he was.
Derozan and Whiteside and your team definitely is not a playoff team.
dragonyeuw
Member
Let's not forget Clyde Drexler, Robert Horry, and Sam Cassell. The main point is, Hakeem's rep is based on two years, 94 and 95. Outside of that he wasn't more dominant than Shaq. If anything, he's more a fringe top 10 guy than Shaq is, because Lebron has come into the mix which muddles up the 6-10 range. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe,Lebron, Hakeem all warrant top 10 status but who do you leave out from that list? Not Shaq, not Duncan, and I'd say not Lebron.
because they don't rank players based on "pound for pound". this ain't boxing fam lol
- Status