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[Sanjuro]

Nope. There are studies that show how hormone during pre-pregnancy in mother is one of the causes. There are some studies cited in that long index/ring finger thread if you're interested.

Like I said, it's all opinions at this time. Studies are just what they are called and nothing is set in stone.

 

[Londa]

And you're... disagreeing?

doesn't matter what I think. He asked what GayGaf thinks.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Thats fine, I accept your opinion however, appearance, doesn't related to race. Which many in here have done. That is why I said race changing isn't possible. Not appearance changing is impossible.

No, the argument has been that gay people don't have it as bad as black people because they can "easily" hide who they are, but a black person cannot. But you know, continue to move the goal posts to suit your needs.

 

[Gaborn]

doesn't matter what I think. He asked what GayGaf thinks.

Let me be clearer then: Do you believe that "going to church" (take this to mean "the desire not to be gay and attempting to change") can change sexual orientation, or do you believe that it is an inborn characteristic?

 

[Londa]

Wow, are you really saying that we're devaluing someone's race by saying sexuality is an immutable trait? Get the FUCK outta here.

Nope, they said with their own words that appearance = race which is devaluing race. While they are hypocrites by saying their can not change their sexuality.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

You replied to a comment that was talking about race. Why say anything about changing your appearance if you were not addressing what the comment was saying. Which was, appearance is not race. Race is where you came from.

That is your opinion on what you find easier. It doesn't apply to all.




totally agree. It saddens me that a gay person would try to devalue someone's race as something you can change, while they continue to say its impossible for themselves to change their sexual preference.

Can't say that I agree with you that people can change their sexual preference. Sad to see that this stupid thread is going. I think you've fanned some flames that will keep this thread around a while longer. :/

 

[Kinitari]

Like I said, it's all opinions at this time. Studies are just what they are called and nothing is set in stone.

If you get a chance, read the wiki

It talks about all sorts of studies, some even pointing to non-genetic/non-natal influence on sexuality, it's fascinating stuff.

 

[Londa]

Let me be clearer then: Do you believe that "going to church" (take this to mean "the desire not to be gay and attempting to change") can change sexual orientation, or do you believe that it is an inborn characteristic?

I said go to church because many believe that if gays go to church and live their life according to the bible they will not have gay sex.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Nope, they said with their own words that appearance = race which is devaluing race. While they are hypocrites by saying their can not change their sexuality.

Appearance does not equal race, but race is a social construct anyway.

Sexuality is as well. This is why both traits are at the same time immutable and dynamic in that they are traits given at birth but either change physically (sexual experimentation) or socially (in terms of the given rights a person of a certain race would get over time).

 

[Replicant]

Like I said, it's all opinions at this time. Studies are just what they are called and nothing is set in stone.

Studies are research conducted over multiple participants of varying backgrounds and parental heritage. Whereas opinion is just something that people say without any empirical evidence to back it up. If you can't see the difference between the two then your argument is going to suffer greatly in the views of many.

 

[Gaborn]

I said go to church because many believe that if gays go to church and live their life according to the bible they will not have gay sex.

And I asked for your personal opinion.

 

[Londa]

Can't say that I agree with you that people can change their sexual preference. Sad to see that this stupid thread is going. I think you've fanned some flames that will keep this thread around a while longer. :/

I was showing how they equate looks to race, while sex is impossible to change, thus being a hypocrite.Listen you can twist my words all you like. But if you sat down and read that without already thinking of your reply. You would understand what I was saying.

And I asked for your personal opinion.

And I told you it doesn't matter.

 

[Sanjuro]

Studies are research conducted over multiple participants of varying backgrounds and parental heritage. Whereas opinion is just something that people say without any empirical evidence to back it up. If you can't see the difference between the two then your argument is going to suffer greatly in the views of many.

True, but you can apply that to religion as well and still get lost in a pointless argument. I have my own opinion and not preaching it. Without a doubt genetics can surely play some sort of role, but my own sexual preference wouldn't be what it is without where life took me.

 

[Gaborn]

And I told you it doesn't matter.

Which I think is rather answer enough, considering the positions you've taken in this thread.

 

[Kinitari]

True, but you can apply that to religion as well and still get lost in a pointless argument. I have my own opinion and not preaching it. Without a doubt genetics can surely play some sort of role, but my own sexual preference wouldn't be what it is without where life took me.

You can't empirically study religion. You can empirically study the history of religion - but religious claims are entirely outside the realm of human observation and study. Not even sort of the same thing.

Out of curiosity, what sort of experience did you have that made you realize you were straight? I remember seeing boobies in a nude park in germany and I was all "oh snap! Those things are awesome!" and that was that.

 

[Londa]

Which I think is rather answer enough, considering the positions you've taken in this thread.

Your assumption isn't shocking as to how people continue to read words into sentences here.

 

[Dead Man]

I said go to church because many believe that if gays go to church and live their life according to the bible they will not have gay sex.

So, if you just don't have gay sex, you're not gay, but if you change your skin colour and get plastic surgery, you haven't changed your race? Double standard here? I would say neither have changed what they are, only what the look like or act as. Both are impossible. You can only change how act, your persona, not your core traits.

True, but you can apply that to religion as well and still get lost in a pointless argument. I have my own opinion and not preaching it. Without a doubt genetics can surely play some sort of role, but my own sexual preference wouldn't be what it is without where life took me.

While I would never say your opinion is wrong, it is certainly lacking in knowledge of recent information. As Kinitari said, read the wiki page he posted, it may add new facts so your opinion can be informed, rather than instinctual.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Your assumption isn't shocking as to how people continue to read words into sentences here.

You sure do have a lot to say on the subject for someone who won't offer a simple opinion.

 

[Gaborn]

Your assumption isn't shocking as to how people continue to read words into sentences here.

Are you assuming then what my assumption is?

 

[Londa]

So, if you just don't have gay sex, you're not gay, but if you change your skin colour and get plastic surgery, you haven't changed your race? Double standard here? I would say neither have changed what they are, only what the look like or act as. Both are impossible. You can only change how act, your persona, not your core traits.

So you read people(when I said my believe) as me saying I? Learn to read and retain the information better.

 

[MIMIC]

Appearance does not equal race, but race is a social construct anyway.

LMAO, so I guess if all the track and field athletes swapped races, "black" people would still be ahead of the pack.

"White" Usain Bolt would get ran over by all of the "black" guys.

My point: Race is just as much a part of who you are as sexuality is. You can attempt to HIDE both, but it's obviously going to be much easier to hide sexuality than race.

 

[Sanjuro]

You can't empirically study religion. You can empirically study the history of religion - but religious claims are entirely outside the realm of human observation and study. Not even sort of the same thing.

Out of curiosity, what sort of experience did you have that made you realize you were straight? I remember seeing boobies in a nude park in germany and I was all "oh snap! Those things are awesome!" and that was that.

Eh, not having that conversation on here. I'm not straight though.

Was just in here throwing in my two cents. These threads are just too easy to gang up on specific individuals and turn into a thread demanding that person conform to a specific idea.

 

[Replicant]

True, but you can apply that to religion as well and still get lost in a pointless argument. I have my own opinion and not preaching it. Without a doubt genetics can surely play some sort of role, but my own sexual preference wouldn't be what it is without where life took me.

Religion from whose POV? From most people with scientific background, they'd say it's just a bunch of nonsense since it can't be proven. Whereas with sexuality, we've made headways in various discoveries about it. It can no longer be called opinion because many research have pointed towards one specific conclusion, whether you like it or not.

I experienced my first attraction towards guys in Kindergarten! Did you think boy at that age understand the concept of sexuality? I sure didn't. All I knew was I had a desire to be with my male friend all the time, to always have his company. And it's not like he was my only friend back then but for some reason I gravitated towards him. It's not until later in college I realised that might have been the first indication of my sexuality. It wasn't what I want to be. It's just instinctively feels right to me.

 

[Londa]

Are you assuming then what my assumption is?

You said you knew the answer without me telling you.

You have been trying to add words into what I say to make me look like a gay hater earlier in this thread (before it died and came back).

It's pretty clear what you have been trying to do.

 

[Kinitari]

LMAO, so I guess if all the track and field athletes swapped races, "black" people would still be ahead of the pack.

"White" Usain Bolt would get ran over by all of the "black" guys.

My point: Race is just as much a part of who you are as sexuality is. You can attempt to HIDE both, but it's obviously going to be much easier to hide sexuality than race.

He said race was a social construct, it probably wasn't very clear. Genetically, there is more variation within a particular 'race' than there is when you compare the two most distinct races. We're the same 'race' - some genetic pools exhibit particular traits more frequently over others.

 

[Mercury Fred]

You said you knew the answer without me telling you.

You have been trying to add words into what I say to make me look like a gay hater earlier in this thread (before it died and came back).

It's pretty clear what you have been trying to do.

Yes, we all have a grand conspiracy to somehow force words into your mouth.

 

[ZephyrFate]

LMAO, so I guess if all the track and field athletes swapped races, "black" people would still be ahead of the pack.

"White" Usain Bolt would get ran over by all of the "black" guys.

My point: Race is just as much a part of who you are as sexuality is. You can attempt to HIDE both, but it's obviously going to be much easier to hide sexuality than race.

The concept of race is socially constructed. That's why we have categorization of race and racism in general.

Are you suggesting there is natural superiority physically between the races? Hmm, perhaps we should work towards that Aryan thing again...

 

[kehs]

You sure do have a lot to say on the subject for someone who won't offer a simple opinion.

why would anyone offer an opinion in this thread, it gets offered for them

 

[Gaborn]

You said you knew the answer without me telling you.

You have been trying to add words into what I say to make me look like a gay hater earlier in this thread (before it died and came back).

It's pretty clear what you have been trying to do.

I think it's funny that you assume what I'm thinking when I didn't state it, and in the same breath condemn me for making assumptions about you when I stated no position on what I actually think your opinion is.

 

[Dead Man]

So you read people as me saying I? Learn to read and retain the information better.

You are not very good at reasoning or argumentation, are you? It is not very difficult to declare your position, rather than making statements that imply your position without technically committing you. Since you have implied your position, unless there are further statements from you contradicting that implication, it is the one that most people will ascribe to you.

 

[Mercury Fred]

why would anyone offer an opinion in this thread, it gets offered for them

Oh please.

 

[Kinitari]

Eh, not having that conversation on here. I'm not straight though.

Was just in here throwing in my two cents. These threads are just too easy to gang up on specific individuals and turn into a thread demanding that person conform to a specific idea.

That's fair, this isn't really a religion thread, let's not complicate it more. Still, it's interesting hearing about your personal experiences that lead you to homosexuality - like the wiki I posted, some people do think that early experiences can effect your sexuality. But that's your business anyway, I appreciate your 2 cents regardless!

 

[Londa]

I think it's funny that you assume what I'm thinking when I didn't state it, and in the same breath condemn me for making assumptions about you when I stated no position on what I actually think your opinion is.

If you say you already know the answer, that is making a assumption. No other way about it.

To act innocent as if I don't know what you are trying to do is more laughable. But it seems like your trying to turn the tables on me. By applying what I have said right back to me. However that will not work with me. Its pretty clear what you are trying to do.

Assume away. If you don't like what someone says you try to make them into a bigot.

 

[MIMIC]

The concept of race is socially constructed. That's why we have categorization of race and racism in general.

Are you suggesting there is natural superiority physically between the races? Hmm, perhaps we should work towards that Aryan thing again...

No. The obscene black to white ratios in professional sports are purely coincidental.

 

[Gaborn]

If you say you already know the answer, that is making a assumption. No other way about it.

To act innocent as if I don't know what you are trying to do is more laughable. But it seems like your trying to turn the tables on me. By applying what I have said right back to me. However that will not work with me. Its pretty clear what you are trying to do.

Assume away. If you don't like what someone says you try to make them into a bigot.

I didn't say I wasn't making an assumption. I said I didn't give any indication in that post what that assumption IS. If you are using what I presume to be your perception of my past history in this thread to make an assumption about what my assumption is then I think it's fair if my assumption is based on your own history in this thread, no?

 

[Londa]

I didn't say I wasn't making an assumption. I said I didn't give any indication in that post what that assumption IS. If you are using what I presume to be your perception of my past history in this thread to make an assumption about what my assumption is then I think it's fair if my assumption is based on your own history in this thread, no?

why mention that I condemn you for making assumptions about me when you stated no position on what you actually think my opinion is, if I am right for saying you are making assumptions?

Give me a break, its not hard to see where you are going with this. Its plain as day, and I could care less if you continue to act innocent and harmless. The truth is, I have never said anything at all. So at the end of the day you will still be assuming.

 

[Devolution]

lol thread keeps on goin' because some people have a weird vested interest in acting like gays don't have it that bad.

Get over yourselves.

 

[Gaborn]

why mention that I condemn you for making assumptions about me when you stated no position on what you actually think my opinion is, if I am right for saying you are making assumptions?

Give me a break, its not hard to see where you are going with this. Its plain as day, and I could care less if you continue to act innocent and harmless. The truth is, I have never said anything at all. So at the end of the day you will still be assuming.

You said:

Your assumption isn't shocking as to how people continue to read words into sentences here.

Which only makes sense if you made an assumption that I made an assumption unfavorable to you. Hence the derail.

None of which is relevant to the issue at hand in any case. I'm not even sure why the origin of sexual orientation matters. Nobody ever requires baptists or catholics or any religious faith to prove their belief is genetic, why should gays have to prove anything about their sexual orientation (ignoring scientific consensus in the first place)?

 

[Londa]

You said:

Which only makes sense if you made an assumption that I made an assumption unfavorable to you. Hence the derail.

None of which is relevant to the issue at hand in any case. I'm not even sure why the origin of sexual orientation matters. Nobody ever requires baptists or catholics or any religious faith to prove their belief is genetic, why should gays have to prove anything about their sexual orientation (ignoring scientific consensus in the first place)

Either way, if you say you already know that answer its an assumption. Which happens plenty of times here. Doesn't matter if its negative or not.

I guess because depending on the religion, being gay is not favorable. So only for those religions that look down on being gay, it would be a problem.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I was showing how they equate looks to race, while sex is impossible to change, thus being a hypocrite.Listen you can twist my words all you like. But if you sat down and read that without already thinking of your reply. You would understand what I was saying.




And I told you it doesn't matter.

Look I'm not twisting anyone's words, you said sexual preference.

 

[Devolution]

You said:

Which only makes sense if you made an assumption that I made an assumption unfavorable to you. Hence the derail.

None of which is relevant to the issue at hand in any case. I'm not even sure why the origin of sexual orientation matters. Nobody ever requires baptists or catholics or any religious faith to prove their belief is genetic, why should gays have to prove anything about their sexual orientation (ignoring scientific consensus in the first place)

The origin of sexual orientation shouldn't matter, I frankly don't give a fuck if it's genetic or "natural." Honestly, it shouldn't even be part of the argument. Someone's sexuality as long as it is within the realm of consenting adults, really shouldn't be up for scrutiny or debate. More people should ascribe to the idea of "who the fuck cares." But apparently a bunch of insecure assholes feel the need to pry into people's bedrooms and sex lives, we're left with silly arguments about whether sexuality is a choice or not. In the end, it shouldn't matter, and if sexuality is a choice, then by god heteros, you can't have your cake and eat it too. That means you decided for yourself as well.

 

[Londa]

Look I'm not twisting anyone's words, you said sexual preference.

my sentence isn't about what I think. That is twisting my words. I am saying what has been done in here. Someone said race is appearance, but being gay is impossible to change. Its as simple as that.

 

[ZephyrFate]

No. The obscene black to white ratios in professional sports are purely coincidental.

K. I'm glad we're both striving towards differentiating people based on skin color rather than actual ability.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

my sentence isn't about what I think. That is twisting my words. I am saying what has been done in here. Someone said race is appearance, but being gay is impossible to change. Its as simple as that.

Ok, I'm following you now.....I think. Either way I didn't particularly like that whole Michael Jackson changed his race quip, I don't think it's particularly appropriate to make fun of a guy for having vitiligo, but whatever. Like you said, theirs more to race than appearance, to think otherwise is stupid.

 

[Gaborn]

my sentence isn't about what I think. That is twisting my words. I am saying what has been done in here. Someone said race is appearance, but being gay is impossible to change. Its as simple as that.

well in fairness race IS a social construct. Most countries have wildly different definitions as to what constitutes a "race" and what does not. Some countries have a "one drop" rule, some have a huge gradient for what race a person is.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Someone said race is appearance, but being gay is impossible to change. Its as simple as that.

No, no one has said that. You're taking one part from one argument and one part from another to make a nonsense mash-up.

 

[Y2Kev]

No. The obscene black to white ratios in professional sports are purely coincidental.

Um. I'd like to see where you go with this, particularly in explaining what it means in areas where whites, Hispanics, or Asians dominate in number. What does it say to you?

Please, put on your dancing shoes and tap away.

I don't even know what to do with this thread. I've found the portal to the 1950s. Maybe the X-com developers can take a look.

 

[Devolution]

well in fairness race IS a social construct. Most countries have wildly different definitions as to what constitutes a "race" and what does not. Some countries have a "one drop" rule, some have a huge gradient for what race a person is.

Was going to come in here and say "race" is a shitty inconsistent construct that labels people based more on politics than genetics or appearance.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Um. I'd like to see where you go with this.

Please, put on your dancing shoes and tap away.

I don't even know what to do with this thread. I've found the portal to the 1950s. Maybe the X-com developers can take a look.

Keep it open so we can say there is a thread on GAF where people insist on having it loop forever.

It's a paradoxical thread.

 

[MIMIC]

K. I'm glad we're both striving towards differentiating people based on skin color rather than actual ability.

1) Your naivete (feigned or not) is amusing

2) You think I'm getting sucked into this argument? Please.