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[oneHeero]

That sounds like a whitewashing of the origins to me. "Gay" as in happy, light-hearted and carefree wasn't used because they were living the life they wanted, it was used as a snide euphemism - a way of saying someone was homosexual by describing gay men as effeminate and camp - which is what the 'gay' refers to as in happy and carefree.

I honestly never knew that :\ I actually thought the person you quoted was the real definition. Unless your simply using your own perception as to what gay really meant, then I'll just stick to the other definition lol. :$

 

[numble]

This is unrelated to the main topic, but more related than some of the other talk that has been going on:

The spotlight doesn't get rid of referee biases

It's a headline ESPN story too:
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6388692

Crawford is the lead official of the crew that will work Tuesday night's Game 2 in the Dallas Mavericks' first-round series against the Portland Trail Blazers. That will make many Mavs fans cringe, given the franchise's miserable track record in playoff games worked by Crawford.

The Mavs have a 2-16 record in playoff games officiated by Crawford, including 16 losses in the last 17 games. Dallas is 48-41 in the rest of their playoff games during the ownership tenure of Mark Cuban, who has been fined millions of dollars in the last 11 years for publicly complaining about officiating.
...
An NBA spokesman did not immediately reply to an email requesting comment about whether the league has reviewed the Mavericks playoff games officiated by Crawford or considered not using him in a Dallas series due to a record that is at least a statistical outlier.

Dallas has a six-game playoff losing streak in games officiated by Crawford, which began with Game 3 of the 2006 NBA Finals, when the Miami Heat rallied from a 13-point deficit midway through the fourth quarter. Crawford also worked Game 6 of those Finals, when the Heat won their fourth consecutive game to claim the championship. The Heat had a 71-49 advantage in free throws in those two games.

The Mavs have been called for 2.3 fouls per game more than their opponents in playoff games officiated by Crawford, compared to a nearly even foul differential in their other playoff games since 2001. Dallas has averaged 6.8 fewer free throws than their opponents in playoff games Crawford has worked. Opponents have an edge in free throw differential in the rest of the Mavs' playoff games, but it's only by a little more than one attempt per game.

 

[Dead Man]

This is unrelated to the main topic, but more related than some of the other talk that has been going on:

The spotlight doesn't get rid of referee biases

It's a headline ESPN story too:
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6388692

Since you don't have me on ignore (I presume, anyway), I'll say that is a very interesting article. I do feel it reinforces my very uneducated opinion that maybe the NBA needs to revamp the whole way it referees games, and the way it shows accountability to fans, and to make sure they are accountable to someone. Not reviewing every decision of course, but when there are statistical outliers like this, they should be reviewed. Thanks for posting it, even if you disagree with my assessment!

Edit: That said, I do have a soft spot for the Blazers since my US family are all from Oregon.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Seems like some of you have a crush on Kobe.

 

[SmokyDave]

Seems like some of you have a crush on Kobe.

Well, he is some prime beef.


No, hang on, that's your line...

 

[Mumei]

That sounds like a whitewashing of the origins to me. "Gay" as in happy, light-hearted and carefree wasn't used because they were living the life they wanted, it was used as a snide euphemism - a way of saying someone was homosexual by describing gay men as effeminate and camp - which is what the 'gay' refers to as in happy and carefree.

What he described was what I was familiar with as well; that "gay" as a euphemism adopted by homosexual men before it became widely known in the general public. I'd be interested in reading where you heard that.

And that my friend is the major difference people always seem to forget. "If I tell someone I'm gay I will then be discriminated against!!!" Then keep your sexuality to yourself then! I don't walk around talking about who or what I stick my dick into. It's a choice, as long as you have a choice and a minority doesn't it's never a valid comparison in my eyes.

I don't know how you (or other, mostly straight, people who make the same argument) don't actually think through what you're suggesting.

One of the biggest problems with starting any sort of gay rights movement before the 1970s was that so many people were in the closet. There were multiple states where you could get arrested and thrown into mental hospitals for long periods of time, where you could get blacklisted from jobs in the government (and jobs that contracted with the government), where other people wouldn't hire you, and you'd be viewed as simply another variant on a pedophile. You could avoid all this by hiding in the closet, marrying a woman, and having sex on the side. Do you think it would be reasonable for someone to expect you to marry a man, adopt a few kids with him, and have sex with women on the side in order to avoid discrimination? Of course not. But lots of gay men did make that choice. This intense pressure to be in the closet meant that most gay men weren't willing to challenge sodomy cases in court, weren't willing to join political organizations protesting the treatment of gay men, etc. If you are hiding in the closet and afraid someone might figure out that you are gay, you are much less likely to advocate on your own behalf.

This is actually one of the few advantages the black community had with regards to their civil rights movement; they are born into the community, grow up within the community, and there were political and social organizations (e.g. the church); the basic infrastructure was able to form. In contrast, gay men would generally find out that they were gay sometime in their teens, and there was little sense of a larger "community" after the 1930s. It's difficult to organize when you don't know who your potential allies are, and your potential allies refuse to identify themselves out of fear of reprisal.

Granted, things are not so bad now as "jail and destruction of your professional life" for gay people outside of small towns (where "destruction of your professional life" is still a possibility). It is still true, however, that hiding in the closet is not a real solution for discrimination, any more than a Jewish person having to practice their religion in secret is a reasonable thing to expect of a Jewish person trying to avoid Antisemitism.

 

[Mercury Fred]

And that my friend is the major difference people always seem to forget. "If I tell someone I'm gay I will then be discriminated against!!!" Then keep your sexuality to yourself then! I don't walk around talking about who or what I stick my dick into. It's a choice, as long as you have a choice and a minority doesn't it's never a valid comparison in my eyes.

*throws gasoline on thread*

Whoah, looks like another case of Mercury's Law.

 

[ZephyrFate]

And that my friend is the major difference people always seem to forget. "If I tell someone I'm gay I will then be discriminated against!!!" Then keep your sexuality to yourself then! I don't walk around talking about who or what I stick my dick into. It's a choice, as long as you have a choice and a minority doesn't it's never a valid comparison in my eyes.

*throws gasoline on thread*

Please, stop acting black. Can you just keep it to yourself? It's a choice. Michael Jackson showed you how.

Better yet, stop acting straight. Your sexuality offends me.

 

[MIMIC]

I don't really know what to say to this. Either you think being different is reason enough to be insulted, or you actually think being gay is bad. Or I guess you could be a moron acting obtuse for the sake of trolling. I don't know which would be worse.

I didn't invent the dictionary. I didn't have the privilege of assigning words to particular behaviors. I'm just making sound observations.

Also, I didn't make any judgments so you can't say that I think people deserve to be insulted or that I think being gay is bad or wrong or anything.


EDIT:

Find me a word that started out as a slur and is now not considered one. That was my only requirement. Faggot started as a slur, not a medical condition. Homosexuality may have been considered as such, but the medical term was never faggot. So find me a word, like kike, or nigger, or ginger, or beaner, or any other genuine slur (not just an insult) that no longer carries that meaning. I would love to find one, because it would mean that maybe people aren't as casually hateful as I feel they are.

Words NEVER lose their meaning. They just fall out of usage.

It's not like the meaning disappears or something; the dictionary isn't going to REMOVE an old meaning of a word.

 

[travisbickle]

I didn't invent the dictionary. I didn't have the privilege of assigning words to particular behaviors. I'm just making sound observations.

Also, I didn't make any judgments so you can't say that I think people deserve to be insulted or that I think being gay is bad or wrong or anything.

The opposite of "gay" is not "straight"!! The opposite of "gay" is "not gay".

The opposite of "straight" is "bent", the statement you made:

As for the negative perception of gay, I mean, the opposite of gay is.....straight, and the dictionary defines something straight as "free of irregularities" (and other positive traits, like "proper").

can be construed as ignorant and offensive.

 

[krypt0nian]

Whoah, looks like another case of Mercury's Law.

Oh yup. Mark it up.

 

[MIMIC]

The opposite of "gay" is not "straight"!! The opposite of "gay" is "not gay".

The opposite of "straight" is "bent", the statement you made:





can be construed as ignorant and offensive.

I'm talking polar opposites, but whatever.

But my point still stands. The term "straight" being adopted for heterosexuality in light of society's feelings toward homosexuality isn't a coincidence.

And you might want to check out the definition of "bent", too.

 

[Gvaz]

The opposite of "gay" is not "straight"!!

Yes it is? If you're not straight, you're gay, if you're not gay you're straight.

Unless you're trying to factor something like asexuality into the equation.

I'm not saying one of these are better than the other (they aren't you can't judge a mindset/preference/whatever you want to call it) but there's really only two things here

edit: I suppose you could put bisexuality in there, but if you're Bi you're not straight either so...

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yes it is? If you're not straight, you're gay, if you're not gay you're straight.

Unless you're trying to factor something like asexuality into the equation.

I'm not saying one of these are better than the other (they aren't you can't judge a mindset/preference/whatever you want to call it) but there's really only two things here

edit: I suppose you could put bisexuality in there, but if you're Bi you're not straight either so...

There aren't just two sexualities in the world, broseph.

And if you're bi, yeah, you are kind of straight too in that you like the opposite sex still.

 

[Pathetic Basement Virgin]

I just saw the video of this. How the fuck you fine a man for saying something to himself.

 

[Mercury Fred]

I just saw the video of this. How the fuck you fine a man for saying something to himself.

Wait, what??

 

[kehs]

Wait, what??

the comment that caused all this was said under his breath also known as "saying it to yourself"

 

[Mercury Fred]

the comment that caused all this was said under his breath also known as "saying it to yourself"

Right, "under your breath" with mics, cameras and thousands of people everywhere. Sorry, but lol.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I just saw the video of this. How the fuck you fine a man for saying something to himself.

"Oh, it's okay. He only whispered 'nigger.'"

 

[Londa]

"round and round, round we go again"

 

[Mercury Fred]

"Oh, it's okay. He only whispered 'nigger.'"

How the fuck you fine a man for saying that to himself??

 

[kehs]

Right, "under your breath" with mics, cameras and thousands of people everywhere. Sorry, but lol.

thats what he did, just clarifying since you couldnt understand the other poster

 

[Mercury Fred]

thats what he did, just clarifying since you couldnt understand the other poster

I didn't misunderstand the poster, I took issue with his ignoring the glaring reality that there's not much privacy in the "private moment" Kobe had when he decided it would be a good idea to call someone a faggot.

 

[spindashing]

"round and round, round we go again"

And here I thought that this thread was closed. I guess it was just high hopes...

 

[ZephyrFate]

thats what he did, just clarifying since you couldnt understand the other poster

There is no such thing as privacy when your basketball game is televised to millions of viewers.

 

[kehs]

I didn't misunderstand the poster, I took issue with the glaring reality that there's not much privacy in the "private moment" Kobe had when he decided it would be a good idea to call someone a faggot.

oh the "wait, what??" seemed like you didnt understand the post you quoted

the extra question mark was too much then

There is no such thing as privacy when your basketball game is televised to millions of viewers.

who mentioned privacy?

 

[EricHasNoPull]

wait what's going on here?

Kobe called who the F' word? to one of this teammates or to someone in the opposing team? I guess I've been under rock huh.

 

[Gaborn]

wait what's going on here?

Kobe called who the F' word? to one of this teammates or to someone in the opposing team? I guess I've been under rock huh.

Referee.

 

[numble]

Turkish Airlines argument incoming...

 

[ZephyrFate]

oh the "wait, what??" seemed like you didnt understand the post you quoted

the extra question mark was too much then



who mentioned privacy?

"under your breath" and "things to yourself" become a lot less valid of an argument when you have cameras all over you the entire game. Best to not say anything at all.

 

[kehs]

"under your breath" and "things to yourself" become a lot less valid of an argument when you have cameras all over you the entire game. Best to not say anything at all.

what argument kobe said fucking faggot to himself and it was captured on tape

or did someone change the past

 

[Kinitari]

what argument kobe said fucking faggot to himself and it was captured on tape

or did someone change the past

He's making an assumption that your argument is that, because his intention was for it to not be broadcasted, he shouldn't be fined for it. I don't know if that's what you're actually trying to say, but that's what I am guessing? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[dream]

Kobe had a technical foul called on him yesterday but this time he covered his face with his jersey so nobody would see him shouting homophobic slurs. Looks like that $100,000 fine taught him a lesson after all.

 

[ZephyrFate]

what argument kobe said fucking faggot to himself and it was captured on tape

or did someone change the past

I'm really confused as to what you're going on about. I'm saying it doesn't really change the situation even though Kobe said it to himself.

 

[kehs]

He's making an assumption that your argument is that, because his intention was for it to not be broadcasted, he shouldn't be fined for it. I don't know if that's what you're actually trying to say, but that's what I am guessing? Correct me if I am wrong.

i wasnt aware i was making an argument i was clarifying since he posted "wait, what??" which signified he wanted clarification

 

[Kinitari]

i wasnt aware i was making an argument i was clarifying since he posted "wait, what??" which signified he wanted clarification

I understand, it just seemed like a weird thing to focus on. Also, the post you were clarifying was asserting that he shouldn't have been fined, so hopefully you understand how some may have come to the conclusion that you were 'backing him up'.

 

[kehs]

I understand, it just seemed like a weird thing to focus on. Also, the post you were clarifying was asserting that he shouldn't have been fined, so hopefully you understand how some may have come to the conclusion that you were 'backing him up'.

i guess we shouldnt make assumptions about what people mean when they say something

 

[MWS Natural]

Well written points.

I was directly referencing being discriminated in a situation for being gay. Your sexuality has nothing to do with buying a car, house or getting a job. You cannot be discriminated against being gay unless you walk in announcing this. My name alone can bring discrimination against me without someone ever even meeting me. Do you include John Doe [Homosexual] on your CSV? That was my point, not that gays don't have their own struggles.

Whoah, looks like another case of Mercury's Law.

Damn even your laws can't fight their own battles!!

 

[ZephyrFate]

I was directly referencing being discriminated in a situation for being gay. Your sexuality has nothing to do with buying a car, house or getting a job. You cannot be discriminated against being gay unless you walk in announcing this. My name alone can bring discrimination against me without someone ever even meeting me. Do you include John Doe [Homosexual] on your CSV? That was my point, not that gays don't have their own struggles.


Damn even your laws can't fight their own battles!!

Pretty sure people get discriminated against in the workplace, can't buy cars from certain dealerships, or have trouble acquiring houses because of sexuality.

Don't act like it doesn't happen to support your argument. And your 'law' can go screw itself, by the way.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Can't you just change your name? Why do you have to flaunt your heritage on a piece of paper anyway?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Can't you just change your name? Why do you have to flaunt your heritage on a piece of paper anyway?

Michael Jackson changed races, so it's not like you even have to stick to your race anymore.

 

[numble]

Can't you just change your name? Why do you have to flaunt your heritage on a piece of paper anyway?

This is the argument people make to defend "Wong" jokes.

 

[Count Dookkake]

This is the argument people make to defend "Wong" jokes.

Huh?

 

[Kinitari]

Huh?

I think he's referring to people who make fun of the East Asian last name "Wong" - if you don't want to be made fun of for having Wong as your last name, change it.


In grade school I knew a guy named Don Qi. Poor guy, he changed it to David eventually . I liked Don Qi

 

[Mercury Fred]

I was directly referencing being discriminated in a situation for being gay. Your sexuality has nothing to do with buying a car, house or getting a job. You cannot be discriminated against being gay unless you walk in announcing this.

False.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I think he's referring to people who make fun of the East Asian last name "Wong" - if you don't want to be made fun of for having Wong as your last name, change it.

Oh.

Well, I make Wong jokes as often as I can and the only defense I need is this:

It is funny if your name means penis in my language. Ironclad.

 

[numble]

Oh.

Well, I make Wong jokes as often as I can and the only defense I need is this:

It is funny if your name means penis in my language. Ironclad.

Abercrombie and Fitch got into problems with using it. There's also the issue when using "Wong" to substitute for words like "wrong" since it implies the inability of Asians to enunciate "r's."

 

[kehs]

Oh.

Well, I make Wong jokes as often as I can and the only defense I need is this:

It is funny if your name means penis in my language. Ironclad.

racist

 

[Count Dookkake]

Abercrombie and Fitch got into problems with using it. There's also the issue when using "Wong" to substitute for words like "wrong" since it implies the inability of Asians to enunciate "r's."

Different jokes for different folks.

I rarely use any defense for a joke other than COME ON THAT'S FUNNY!

So, ultimately, I'm not sure what your tangent is about, but thanks for reminding me of a classic.

racist

Wong.

 

[kehs]

degenigrator