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Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game

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L

Londa

Banned
Gaborn said:
well in fairness race IS a social construct. Most countries have wildly different definitions as to what constitutes a "race" and what does not. Some countries have a "one drop" rule, some have a huge gradient for what race a person is.
Click to expand...

but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Londa said:
but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.
Click to expand...

I wasn't offering an opinion on that point.
 
D

Devolution

Member
Londa said:
but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.
Click to expand...

This is going to sound horrible, but to say a sheltered white person, do you think they'll recognize the difference?
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Londa said:
but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.
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I think you're supporting his (actually Zephyr's) point. Race is obscure and has no real guidelines, and genetically you can be can be closer to the perceived average of another ethnicity than to the perceived average of your own. In the end, it's entirely a social construct - it can't change, but it can be redefined, re-examined and more than your actual ethnicity, I'd say your appearance has more of an effect on how people view you - look at light skinned black people versus dark skinned. And your appearance can change.
 
G

Gvaz

Banned
dream said:
Kobe had a technical foul called on him yesterday but this time he covered his face with his jersey so nobody would see him shouting homophobic slurs. Looks like that $100,000 fine taught him a lesson after all.
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Told him what lesson? Definitely not to change the nature of a man.
 
L

Londa

Banned
Kinitari said:
I think you're supporting his (actually Zephyr's) point. Race is obscure and has no real guidelines, and genetically you can be can be closer to the perceptive average of another ethnicity than to the perceptive average of your own. In the end, it's entirely a social construct - it can't change, but it can be redefined, re-examined and more than your actual ethnicity, I'd say your appearance has more of an effect. And your appearance can change.
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no, his point was that you can change your race. When race is where your family is from. Not how you look. Which is 100% my point. It can be re-examined by finding your family tree but it can not be redefined, you are from this and that's it, a piece of paper can lie for you, but deep down you know where you from if you know your parents.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
MIMIC said:
1) Your naivete (feigned or not) is amusing

2) You think I'm getting sucked into this argument? Please.
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Point ->. Your head ->.

Londa: My point was NEVER that you can change your race. I don't know why you keep saying that.

And yes it very much can be redefined by the government. Lol @ at this concept of living in a utopia where race is 100% determined by you and your family tree.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
LMAO the South Park episode about the "f-word" is on Comedy Central right now (and it reminded me of this thread).

Completely nailed it.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
MIMIC said:
LMAO the South Park episode about the "f-word" is on Comedy Central right now (and it reminded me of this thread).

Completely nailed it.
Click to expand...
Really? You bumped this thread, to say Southpark is right? Fucking hell.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
MIMIC said:
LMAO the South Park episode about the "f-word" is on Comedy Central right now (and it reminded me of this thread).

Completely nailed it.
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Wow, and just when I thought you couldn't set a lower bar.

Kudos for that.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
Yep, and its relevance in this thread is close to nil.
Click to expand...

Thread: Kobe calls ref fag
Episode: Boys call bikers fags

Thread: People get why Kobe called him that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)
Episode: People get why everyone called the bikers that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)

Thread: Homosexuals are offended
Episode: Homosexuals are offended

Thread: GLAAD gets involved and demand an apology; Kobe gets fined
Episode: Principal gets involved and demands an explanation for the boys' behavior; they're sent to the principal's office

Thread: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.
Episode: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.

Seriously, do I need to go on?
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
travisbickle said:
I must have missed this part, can you please show me where Kobe Bryant says he wasn't referencing gays.
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Earlier, Bryant issued a statement saying his remarks should not be taken literally. "My actions were out of frustration during the heat of the game, period," he said. "The words expressed do not reflect my feelings towards the gay and lesbian communities and were not meant to offend anyone." -CNN
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
MIMIC said:
Thread: Kobe calls ref fag
Episode: Boys call bikers fags

Thread: People get why Kobe called him that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)
Episode: People get why everyone called the bikers that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)

Thread: Homosexuals are offended
Episode: Homosexuals are offended

Thread: GLAAD gets involved and demand an apology; Kobe gets fined
Episode: Principal gets involved and demands an explanation for the boys' behavior; they're sent to the principal's office

Thread: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.
Episode: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.

Seriously, do I need to go on?
Click to expand...
Except this isn't South Park and we've been over the fact that you can't remove fag from its homosexual slur definition at this point in time.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
Except this isn't South Park and we've been over the fact that you can't remove fag from its homosexual slur definition at this point in time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
MIMIC said:
Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.
Click to expand...

No one is going to watch an episode just to find an argument then refute it on Neogaf. If you want to trump the writers of South Park as the end-all-be-all unequivocal masters of 'real talk' or something, at least do us the favour of typing out their argument so we know what to refute.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
Kinitari said:
No one is going to watch an episode just to find an argument then refute it on Neogaf. If you want to trump the writers of South Park as the end-all-be-all unequivocal masters of 'real talk' or something, at least do us the favour of typing out their argument so we know what to refute.
Click to expand...
To his credit, he didn't say that, he only said it reminded him of this thread. It's relevant to this thread, though its obviously not an authority.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
MIMIC said:
Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.
Click to expand...
I HAVE seen the fucking episode, you dunce. Just because they altered the word fag to mean something else temporarily doesn't actually change what it originally meant or would continue to mean, as seen by the fact that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals.

God it's like you read every third fucking word.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
I HAVE seen the fucking episode, you dunce. Just because they altered the word fag to mean something else temporarily doesn't actually change what it originally meant or would continue to mean, as seen by the fact that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals.

God it's like you read every third fucking word.
Click to expand...

See, your problem is that you think homosexuals have some type of ownership of the word "fag" when they don't and never did, as seen by the history of the word (when the bikers wised up and went to the library). The word was an insult against people BEFORE it referred to homosexuals and is well on its way to insulting a different type of person, "divorced from its homosexual meaning" as you have said a million times. The fact that people use the word "fag" today without referring to homosexuals at ALL should tell you as much.

And don't you think its interesting that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals when not a single person was referring to them as homosexuals? As pissed off as they were, were they really going to stop people from using a word a certain way (**MESSAGE!**)? It's almost like they didn't get it or something......

You can ignore the world around you for only so long.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
MIMIC said:
See, your problem is that you think homosexuals have some type of ownership of the word "fag" when they don't and never did, as seen by the history of the word (when the bikers wised up and went to the library). The word was an insult against people BEFORE it referred to homosexuals and is well on its way to insulting a different type of person, "divorced from its homosexual meaning" as you have said a million times. The fact that people use the word "fag" today without referring to homosexuals at ALL should tell you as much.

And don't you think its interesting that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals when not a single person was referring to them as homosexuals? As pissed off as they were, were they really going to stop people from using a word a certain way (**MESSAGE!**)? It's almost like they didn't get it or something......

You can ignore the world around you for only so long.
Click to expand...
We're honestly going around and around and you further miss my point more and more. This is boring as fuck. Please, continue to live in this bizarro world where fag has evolved. I'm straight up done bitching with you.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
We're honestly going around and around and you further miss my point more and more. This is boring as fuck. Please, continue to live in this bizarro world where fag has evolved. I'm straight up done bitching with you.
Click to expand...

LOL so "fag" was never an insult to anyone but homosexuals. Got'cha.
 
M

Mumei

Member
MIMIC said:
Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.
Click to expand...

Fuck, you're annoying.

The argument that the word has evolved and has a different meaning is not unique or original to South Park. The whole argument amounts to nothing more than cheap appropriation of minority experience:

"As someone who has no familiarity with this subject, didn't grow up internalizing it, and doesn't understand how it feels to hear people around me for years describing everything bad as "gay" or any negative behavior as being "gay" or indicating that someone is a "fag" or "faggot," I think that you should feel this way when someone uses "fag" or "gay" in a derogatory fashion, because to me the word means different things."

It's a crock of shit.

The fact that it was once a derogatory word for women doesn't change a thing - nearly every slur and nickname relating to gay men can have its origins traced to something referring to women or prostitutes. Nor does it matter that it can also be used as a general insult. Tell me, when you call me a faggot - because I have no doubt that you're the sort of person who would call me a faggot if you weren't on a forum where you'd get banned for it - how am I to tell that you mean "faggot" as just "asshole" and not "faggot"? This isn't simply a hypothetical - I've been called a faggot before. Was I just being called an asshole? How am I supposed to tell?
 
R

Replicant

Member
MIMIC said:
See, your problem is that you think homosexuals have some type of ownership of the word "fag" when they don't and never did, as seen by the history of the word (when the bikers wised up and went to the library). The word was an insult against people BEFORE it referred to homosexuals and is well on its way to insulting a different type of person, "divorced from its homosexual meaning" as you have said a million times. The fact that people use the word "fag" today without referring to homosexuals at ALL should tell you as much.
Click to expand...

In order for a word to have an insulting meaning, it must in some ways or another be correlated to something that people find to be offensive to have an association with. In this day and age, the reason people angry when they are being called a f**, it's because they immediately associate the word with gay people, implying that it's not okay to be associated with gay group. Whether or not the original intention of the word was to insult homosexual or not, to the person being insulted, the word has no meaning other than that of he/she being equated to gay people and for them, that's not a good thing. And we have a vicious circle where people equating being gay as not right because of it.

MIMIC said:
And don't you think its interesting that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals when not a single person was referring to them as homosexuals?
Click to expand...

That's because the meaning of that word when YOU'RE THE RECIPIENT is still equating you with being gay and that being gay is the worst thing that can happen to you. That's how society currently views the word. You can say that the word doesn't mean to insult gay people but to people who are being insulted, their first thought will be that they are being equated to gay people. And because the word is used as an insult, they make an association that being gay is a bad thing.

MIMIC said:
As pissed off as they were, were they really going to stop people from using a word a certain way (**MESSAGE!**)? It's almost like they didn't get it or something......
Click to expand...

Real life is not cartoon. In real life, you'd get fired from your job if you act like you're a cartoon character. But go ahead and say f** in your work environment and mount a South Park related argument and see where they get you.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
Mumei said:
Fuck, you're annoying.

The argument that the word has evolved and has a different meaning is not unique or original to South Park. The whole argument amounts to nothing more than cheap appropriation of minority experience:

"As someone who has no familiarity with this subject, didn't grow up internalizing it, and doesn't understand how it feels to hear people around me for years describing everything bad as "gay" or any negative behavior as being "gay" or indicating that someone is a "fag" or "faggot," I think that you should feel this way when someone uses "fag" or "gay" in a derogatory fashion, because to me the word means different things."

It's a crock of shit.

The fact that it was once a derogatory word for women doesn't change a thing - nearly every slur and nickname relating to gay men can have its origins traced to something referring to women or prostitutes. Nor does it matter that it can also be used as a general insult. Tell me, when you call me a faggot - because I have no doubt that you're the sort of person who would call me a faggot if you weren't on a forum where you'd get banned for it - how am I to tell that you mean "faggot" as just "asshole" and not "faggot"? This isn't simply a hypothetical - I've been called a faggot before. Was I just being called an asshole? How am I supposed to tell?
Click to expand...

So I just go around calling gay people "faggot" for being gay? Fuck you.


Replicant said:
In order for a word to have an insulting meaning, it must in some ways or another be correlated to something that people find to be offensive to have an association with. In this day and age, the reason people angry when they are being called a f**, it's because they immediately associate the word with gay people, implying that it's not okay to be associated with gay group. Whether or not the original intention of the word was to insult homosexual or not, to the person being insulted, the word has no meaning other than that of he/she being equated to gay people and for them, that's not a good thing. And we have a vicious circle where people equating being gay as not right because of it.
Click to expand...

LOL what? I've been called that word before I didn't think, "Oh gosh! My friends think I'm homosexual! WTF?!"

But I don't count, right?

That's because the meaning of that word when YOU'RE THE RECIPIENT is still equating you with being gay and that being gay is the worst thing that can happen to you. That's how society currently views the word. You can say that the word doesn't mean to insult gay people but to people who are being insulted, their first thought will be that they are being equated to gay people. And because the word is used as an insult, they make an association that being gay is a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, I've been called "fag" before when it obviously wasn't referencing homosexuality.

You make it sound like everyone who has been called that word thinks they're being associated with gay people when that is definitely not the case.

Real life is not cartoon. In real life, you'd get fired from your job if you act like you're a cartoon character. But go ahead and say f** in your work environment and mount a South Park related argument and see where they get you.
Click to expand...

What the hell? No one's making the argument that it isn't offensive language.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
MIMIC said:
So I just go around calling gay people "faggot" for being gay? Fuck you.
Click to expand...
No, but you probably go around calling people faggot. Really, you getting quite offensive now with your obtuseness and inability to comprehend why it is still a particularly offensive word.
 
R

Replicant

Member
MIMIC said:
LOL what? I've been called that word before I didn't think, "Oh gosh! My friends think I'm homosexual! WTF?!"

But I don't count, right?
Click to expand...

Because you are represent ALL people in the world, right? Sure, you count but just because you don't see it as gay-related insults, it doesn't mean others don't see it either.

MIMIC said:
You make it sound like everyone who has been called that word thinks they're being associated with gay people when that is definitely not the case.
Click to expand...

You keep saying this but when people using that word, do you honestly think people got offended because they think the word's immediate association is "weak"? No.

MIMIC said:
What the hell? No one's making the argument that it isn't offensive language.
Click to expand...

And yet here you are insisting that it is not meant to insult gay. Who does it insult then?
 
J

JLG-

Member
Joakim Noah slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA playoff game.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/05/22/joakim-noah-chicago-bulls-gay-slur-miami-heat-homophobic-nba-tnt/
Noah went to the bench early in the game with his second foul. After a replay, the camera cut back to Noah ... who screamed a few colorful words in the direction of a fan behind the bench.

He ended his screaming appearing to say, "F**k you, f**got."

Unlike Kobe's outburst, the announcer's made no mention of Joakim's.
Click to expand...

Video
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhSxvM40RdzoZO5bJR
TMZ
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Oh lordy, who the fuck cares. Wow, someone on this planet says that word? THAT IS UTTERLY SHOCKING. OMFG. I THOUGHT THIS WAS 2011, NOT 1424.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Gaborn said:
Same thing I said about Kobe. He should be either fined 2 game checks or suspended 1 game. (Though in Kobe's case I'll accept the embarrassing sweep of the Lakers)
Click to expand...

Yes, which is just dumb. We've covered this in the previous 3000 posts, so let's go down that road again. I imagine the league will be fining him, and I can't see why it wouldn't be the same amount as KB24.
 
T

TangMeng

Member
Gaborn said:
Arguably sure. He knew what happened to Kobe, so it should be worse on future offenders.
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Completely agree. Considering it is the playoffs too should really make it clear that the NBA isn't taking it lightly.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
TangMeng said:
Completely agree. Considering it is the playoffs too should really make it clear that the NBA isn't taking it lightly.
Click to expand...

They could dock the entire Bulls franchise 1 game, so they'd be down 3-1 now. That would teach them.
 
T

TangMeng

Member
commish said:
They could dock the entire Bulls franchise 1 game, so they'd be down 3-1 now. That would teach them.
Click to expand...

It's not (entirely) the franchise's fault. It doesn't matter anyway since the Bulls aren't winning another game.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
commish said:
Oh lordy, who the fuck cares. Wow, someone on this planet says that word? THAT IS UTTERLY SHOCKING. OMFG. I THOUGHT THIS WAS 2011, NOT 1424.
Click to expand...
Apparently, you care. And what the hell does the date have to do with it? It would be no big deal in 1424.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Dead Man said:
Apparently, you care. And what the hell does the date have to do with it? It would be no big deal in 1424.
Click to expand...

That's my point. It's 2011. We should be more civilized.
 
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