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[Londa]

well in fairness race IS a social construct. Most countries have wildly different definitions as to what constitutes a "race" and what does not. Some countries have a "one drop" rule, some have a huge gradient for what race a person is.

but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.

 

[Gaborn]

but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.

I wasn't offering an opinion on that point.

 

[Devolution]

but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.

This is going to sound horrible, but to say a sheltered white person, do you think they'll recognize the difference?

 

[Kinitari]

but does that make it changeable? Or equating appearance? a Hispanic can be darker or lighter skin. So their skin doesn't equal their race. A person I know is Hispanic but they are as dark as me and have curlier and tighter hair than me. It doesn't make them black/African American.

I think you're supporting his (actually Zephyr's) point. Race is obscure and has no real guidelines, and genetically you can be can be closer to the perceived average of another ethnicity than to the perceived average of your own. In the end, it's entirely a social construct - it can't change, but it can be redefined, re-examined and more than your actual ethnicity, I'd say your appearance has more of an effect on how people view you - look at light skinned black people versus dark skinned. And your appearance can change.

 

[Gvaz]

Kobe had a technical foul called on him yesterday but this time he covered his face with his jersey so nobody would see him shouting homophobic slurs. Looks like that $100,000 fine taught him a lesson after all.

Told him what lesson? Definitely not to change the nature of a man.

 

[Londa]

I think you're supporting his (actually Zephyr's) point. Race is obscure and has no real guidelines, and genetically you can be can be closer to the perceptive average of another ethnicity than to the perceptive average of your own. In the end, it's entirely a social construct - it can't change, but it can be redefined, re-examined and more than your actual ethnicity, I'd say your appearance has more of an effect. And your appearance can change.

no, his point was that you can change your race. When race is where your family is from. Not how you look. Which is 100% my point. It can be re-examined by finding your family tree but it can not be redefined, you are from this and that's it, a piece of paper can lie for you, but deep down you know where you from if you know your parents.

 

[ZephyrFate]

1) Your naivete (feigned or not) is amusing

2) You think I'm getting sucked into this argument? Please.

Point ->. Your head ->.

Londa: My point was NEVER that you can change your race. I don't know why you keep saying that.

And yes it very much can be redefined by the government. Lol @ at this concept of living in a utopia where race is 100% determined by you and your family tree.

 

[Gvaz]

Speaking of Michael, from a 1985 Ebony magazine article on how artists may look in 2000:

When I was a kid I thought it was pronounced "EE-BONY"

:^)

 

[MIMIC]

LMAO the South Park episode about the "f-word" is on Comedy Central right now (and it reminded me of this thread).

Completely nailed it.

 

[owlbeak]

Jesus christ, stop bumping this thread. Ughhhh.

 

[Dead Man]

LMAO the South Park episode about the "f-word" is on Comedy Central right now (and it reminded me of this thread).

Completely nailed it.

Really? You bumped this thread, to say Southpark is right? Fucking hell.

 

[ZephyrFate]

LMAO the South Park episode about the "f-word" is on Comedy Central right now (and it reminded me of this thread).

Completely nailed it.

Wow, and just when I thought you couldn't set a lower bar.

Kudos for that.

 

[MIMIC]

Wow, and just when I thought you couldn't set a lower bar.

Kudos for that.

Did you even see it?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Did you even see it?

Yep, and its relevance in this thread is close to nil.

 

[MIMIC]

Yep, and its relevance in this thread is close to nil.

Thread: Kobe calls ref fag
Episode: Boys call bikers fags

Thread: People get why Kobe called him that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)
Episode: People get why everyone called the bikers that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)

Thread: Homosexuals are offended
Episode: Homosexuals are offended

Thread: GLAAD gets involved and demand an apology; Kobe gets fined
Episode: Principal gets involved and demands an explanation for the boys' behavior; they're sent to the principal's office

Thread: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.
Episode: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.

Seriously, do I need to go on?

 

[travisbickle]

Thread: People get why Kobe called him that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)

I must have missed this part, can you please show me where Kobe Bryant says he wasn't referencing gays.

 

[MIMIC]

I must have missed this part, can you please show me where Kobe Bryant says he wasn't referencing gays.

Earlier, Bryant issued a statement saying his remarks should not be taken literally. "My actions were out of frustration during the heat of the game, period," he said. "The words expressed do not reflect my feelings towards the gay and lesbian communities and were not meant to offend anyone." -CNN

 

[Door2Dawn]

I think we can all learn something from this thread.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Why is this thread getting bumped more. Move on, damn.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Thread: Kobe calls ref fag
Episode: Boys call bikers fags

Thread: People get why Kobe called him that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)
Episode: People get why everyone called the bikers that (stating that gays weren't being referenced)

Thread: Homosexuals are offended
Episode: Homosexuals are offended

Thread: GLAAD gets involved and demand an apology; Kobe gets fined
Episode: Principal gets involved and demands an explanation for the boys' behavior; they're sent to the principal's office

Thread: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.
Episode: The definition of the word "fag" is thoroughly analyzed.

Seriously, do I need to go on?

Except this isn't South Park and we've been over the fact that you can't remove fag from its homosexual slur definition at this point in time.

 

[MIMIC]

Except this isn't South Park and we've been over the fact that you can't remove fag from its homosexual slur definition at this point in time.

Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.

 

[Kinitari]

Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.

No one is going to watch an episode just to find an argument then refute it on Neogaf. If you want to trump the writers of South Park as the end-all-be-all unequivocal masters of 'real talk' or something, at least do us the favour of typing out their argument so we know what to refute.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

No one is going to watch an episode just to find an argument then refute it on Neogaf. If you want to trump the writers of South Park as the end-all-be-all unequivocal masters of 'real talk' or something, at least do us the favour of typing out their argument so we know what to refute.

To his credit, he didn't say that, he only said it reminded him of this thread. It's relevant to this thread, though its obviously not an authority.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.

I HAVE seen the fucking episode, you dunce. Just because they altered the word fag to mean something else temporarily doesn't actually change what it originally meant or would continue to mean, as seen by the fact that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals.

God it's like you read every third fucking word.

 

[MIMIC]

I HAVE seen the fucking episode, you dunce. Just because they altered the word fag to mean something else temporarily doesn't actually change what it originally meant or would continue to mean, as seen by the fact that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals.

God it's like you read every third fucking word.

See, your problem is that you think homosexuals have some type of ownership of the word "fag" when they don't and never did, as seen by the history of the word (when the bikers wised up and went to the library). The word was an insult against people BEFORE it referred to homosexuals and is well on its way to insulting a different type of person, "divorced from its homosexual meaning" as you have said a million times. The fact that people use the word "fag" today without referring to homosexuals at ALL should tell you as much.

And don't you think its interesting that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals when not a single person was referring to them as homosexuals? As pissed off as they were, were they really going to stop people from using a word a certain way (**MESSAGE!**)? It's almost like they didn't get it or something......

You can ignore the world around you for only so long.

 

[ZephyrFate]

See, your problem is that you think homosexuals have some type of ownership of the word "fag" when they don't and never did, as seen by the history of the word (when the bikers wised up and went to the library). The word was an insult against people BEFORE it referred to homosexuals and is well on its way to insulting a different type of person, "divorced from its homosexual meaning" as you have said a million times. The fact that people use the word "fag" today without referring to homosexuals at ALL should tell you as much.

And don't you think its interesting that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals when not a single person was referring to them as homosexuals? As pissed off as they were, were they really going to stop people from using a word a certain way (**MESSAGE!**)? It's almost like they didn't get it or something......

You can ignore the world around you for only so long.

We're honestly going around and around and you further miss my point more and more. This is boring as fuck. Please, continue to live in this bizarro world where fag has evolved. I'm straight up done bitching with you.

 

[MIMIC]

We're honestly going around and around and you further miss my point more and more. This is boring as fuck. Please, continue to live in this bizarro world where fag has evolved. I'm straight up done bitching with you.

LOL so "fag" was never an insult to anyone but homosexuals. Got'cha.

 

[Mumei]

Yeah, you didn't see the episode. You're making the same argument the woman on TV made when the boys were sent to the principal's office. AND what the guy said at the town hall meeting.

It's almost like you posting just for the sake of posting.

Fuck, you're annoying.

The argument that the word has evolved and has a different meaning is not unique or original to South Park. The whole argument amounts to nothing more than cheap appropriation of minority experience:

"As someone who has no familiarity with this subject, didn't grow up internalizing it, and doesn't understand how it feels to hear people around me for years describing everything bad as "gay" or any negative behavior as being "gay" or indicating that someone is a "fag" or "faggot," I think that you should feel this way when someone uses "fag" or "gay" in a derogatory fashion, because to me the word means different things."

It's a crock of shit.

The fact that it was once a derogatory word for women doesn't change a thing - nearly every slur and nickname relating to gay men can have its origins traced to something referring to women or prostitutes. Nor does it matter that it can also be used as a general insult. Tell me, when you call me a faggot - because I have no doubt that you're the sort of person who would call me a faggot if you weren't on a forum where you'd get banned for it - how am I to tell that you mean "faggot" as just "asshole" and not "faggot"? This isn't simply a hypothetical - I've been called a faggot before. Was I just being called an asshole? How am I supposed to tell?

 

[Replicant]

See, your problem is that you think homosexuals have some type of ownership of the word "fag" when they don't and never did, as seen by the history of the word (when the bikers wised up and went to the library). The word was an insult against people BEFORE it referred to homosexuals and is well on its way to insulting a different type of person, "divorced from its homosexual meaning" as you have said a million times. The fact that people use the word "fag" today without referring to homosexuals at ALL should tell you as much.

In order for a word to have an insulting meaning, it must in some ways or another be correlated to something that people find to be offensive to have an association with. In this day and age, the reason people angry when they are being called a f**, it's because they immediately associate the word with gay people, implying that it's not okay to be associated with gay group. Whether or not the original intention of the word was to insult homosexual or not, to the person being insulted, the word has no meaning other than that of he/she being equated to gay people and for them, that's not a good thing. And we have a vicious circle where people equating being gay as not right because of it.

And don't you think its interesting that the bikers got upset that they were being made equivalent to homosexuals when not a single person was referring to them as homosexuals?

That's because the meaning of that word when YOU'RE THE RECIPIENT is still equating you with being gay and that being gay is the worst thing that can happen to you. That's how society currently views the word. You can say that the word doesn't mean to insult gay people but to people who are being insulted, their first thought will be that they are being equated to gay people. And because the word is used as an insult, they make an association that being gay is a bad thing.

As pissed off as they were, were they really going to stop people from using a word a certain way (**MESSAGE!**)? It's almost like they didn't get it or something......

Real life is not cartoon. In real life, you'd get fired from your job if you act like you're a cartoon character. But go ahead and say f** in your work environment and mount a South Park related argument and see where they get you.

 

[MIMIC]

Fuck, you're annoying.

The argument that the word has evolved and has a different meaning is not unique or original to South Park. The whole argument amounts to nothing more than cheap appropriation of minority experience:

"As someone who has no familiarity with this subject, didn't grow up internalizing it, and doesn't understand how it feels to hear people around me for years describing everything bad as "gay" or any negative behavior as being "gay" or indicating that someone is a "fag" or "faggot," I think that you should feel this way when someone uses "fag" or "gay" in a derogatory fashion, because to me the word means different things."

It's a crock of shit.

The fact that it was once a derogatory word for women doesn't change a thing - nearly every slur and nickname relating to gay men can have its origins traced to something referring to women or prostitutes. Nor does it matter that it can also be used as a general insult. Tell me, when you call me a faggot - because I have no doubt that you're the sort of person who would call me a faggot if you weren't on a forum where you'd get banned for it - how am I to tell that you mean "faggot" as just "asshole" and not "faggot"? This isn't simply a hypothetical - I've been called a faggot before. Was I just being called an asshole? How am I supposed to tell?

So I just go around calling gay people "faggot" for being gay? Fuck you.

In order for a word to have an insulting meaning, it must in some ways or another be correlated to something that people find to be offensive to have an association with. In this day and age, the reason people angry when they are being called a f**, it's because they immediately associate the word with gay people, implying that it's not okay to be associated with gay group. Whether or not the original intention of the word was to insult homosexual or not, to the person being insulted, the word has no meaning other than that of he/she being equated to gay people and for them, that's not a good thing. And we have a vicious circle where people equating being gay as not right because of it.

LOL what? I've been called that word before I didn't think, "Oh gosh! My friends think I'm homosexual! WTF?!"

But I don't count, right?

That's because the meaning of that word when YOU'RE THE RECIPIENT is still equating you with being gay and that being gay is the worst thing that can happen to you. That's how society currently views the word. You can say that the word doesn't mean to insult gay people but to people who are being insulted, their first thought will be that they are being equated to gay people. And because the word is used as an insult, they make an association that being gay is a bad thing.

Like I said before, I've been called "fag" before when it obviously wasn't referencing homosexuality.

You make it sound like everyone who has been called that word thinks they're being associated with gay people when that is definitely not the case.

Real life is not cartoon. In real life, you'd get fired from your job if you act like you're a cartoon character. But go ahead and say f** in your work environment and mount a South Park related argument and see where they get you.

What the hell? No one's making the argument that it isn't offensive language.

 

[Dead Man]

So I just go around calling gay people "faggot" for being gay? Fuck you.

No, but you probably go around calling people faggot. Really, you getting quite offensive now with your obtuseness and inability to comprehend why it is still a particularly offensive word.

 

[Replicant]

LOL what? I've been called that word before I didn't think, "Oh gosh! My friends think I'm homosexual! WTF?!"

But I don't count, right?

Because you are represent ALL people in the world, right? Sure, you count but just because you don't see it as gay-related insults, it doesn't mean others don't see it either.

You make it sound like everyone who has been called that word thinks they're being associated with gay people when that is definitely not the case.

You keep saying this but when people using that word, do you honestly think people got offended because they think the word's immediate association is "weak"? No.

What the hell? No one's making the argument that it isn't offensive language.

And yet here you are insisting that it is not meant to insult gay. Who does it insult then?

 

[Kalnos]

MIMIC
Banned
(Today, 10:27 PM)

And now this thread can die in peace.

 

[JLG-]

Joakim Noah slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA playoff game.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/05/22/joakim-noah-chicago-bulls-gay-slur-miami-heat-homophobic-nba-tnt/

Noah went to the bench early in the game with his second foul. After a replay, the camera cut back to Noah ... who screamed a few colorful words in the direction of a fan behind the bench.

He ended his screaming appearing to say, "F**k you, f**got."

Unlike Kobe's outburst, the announcer's made no mention of Joakim's.

Video
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhSxvM40RdzoZO5bJR
TMZ

 

[goober]

I saw that ^^^

TNT always catches these things.

 

[commish]

Oh lordy, who the fuck cares. Wow, someone on this planet says that word? THAT IS UTTERLY SHOCKING. OMFG. I THOUGHT THIS WAS 2011, NOT 1424.

 

[Gaborn]

Joakim Noah slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA playoff game.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/05/22/joakim-noah-chicago-bulls-gay-slur-miami-heat-homophobic-nba-tnt/


Video
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhSxvM40RdzoZO5bJR
TMZ

Same thing I said about Kobe. He should be either fined 2 game checks or suspended 1 game. (Though in Kobe's case I'll accept the embarrassing sweep of the Lakers)

 

[SolKane]

here we go again

 

[Slayven]

Wow Mercury Fred was banned?

 

[commish]

Same thing I said about Kobe. He should be either fined 2 game checks or suspended 1 game. (Though in Kobe's case I'll accept the embarrassing sweep of the Lakers)

Yes, which is just dumb. We've covered this in the previous 3000 posts, so let's go down that road again. I imagine the league will be fining him, and I can't see why it wouldn't be the same amount as KB24.

 

[TangMeng]

Should be a suspension. Maybe players will finally learn when they start missing playoff games.

 

[SolKane]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431033

 

[Gaborn]

Should be a suspension.

Arguably sure. He knew what happened to Kobe, so it should be worse on future offenders.

 

[TangMeng]

Arguably sure. He knew what happened to Kobe, so it should be worse on future offenders.

Completely agree. Considering it is the playoffs too should really make it clear that the NBA isn't taking it lightly.

 

[commish]

Completely agree. Considering it is the playoffs too should really make it clear that the NBA isn't taking it lightly.

They could dock the entire Bulls franchise 1 game, so they'd be down 3-1 now. That would teach them.

 

[TangMeng]

They could dock the entire Bulls franchise 1 game, so they'd be down 3-1 now. That would teach them.

It's not (entirely) the franchise's fault. It doesn't matter anyway since the Bulls aren't winning another game.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Wow Mercury Fred was banned?

Good, he was a shitty poster anyway.

 

[Dead Man]

Oh lordy, who the fuck cares. Wow, someone on this planet says that word? THAT IS UTTERLY SHOCKING. OMFG. I THOUGHT THIS WAS 2011, NOT 1424.

Apparently, you care. And what the hell does the date have to do with it? It would be no big deal in 1424.

 

[commish]

Apparently, you care. And what the hell does the date have to do with it? It would be no big deal in 1424.

That's my point. It's 2011. We should be more civilized.

 

[Rorschach]

That's my point. It's 2011. We should be more civilized.

Huh?