Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]

I'm sure you will look at this with just as much credulity(which you should) but he isn't making this up.

The claims are simply far too unbelievable. If he's not making it, I'll apologise, but the claims simply aren't believable.

Is it hard to believe that Microsoft got ahead of themselves with a previous "expected launch window" and are still feeling the effects of that failure even today?

It is, it's very hard to believe that if a console were aiming for a 2012 release, they wouldn't be suffering from the numerous issues that they are reportedly suffering from.
 
My money is on Halo 4.

He already said which game it was.

Wow you guys think I really am full of shit? I'll even tell you folks the game that was supposed to launch on Durango.


Blacklight: Retribution was to launch on Durango in 2012.
In time if any of the developers on the game actually come out and say it, please do.

2012 launch. Fuck outta here callin me a liar.

It is, it's very hard to believe that if a console were aiming for a 2012 release, they wouldn't be suffering from the numerous issues that they are reportedly suffering from.

Why not?
 
So let's get this straight. They were aiming for a 2012 release, couldn't make it and decided to push back until 2013 but are still struggling and possibly, as unlikely as it might be, won't even make this year?

Not to mention the release of two of the flagship titles in the latter part of 2012.

Jesus Christ.

They will make it this year. No way they are missing that launch window.

The claims are simply far too unbelievable. If he's not making it, I'll apologise, but the claims simply aren't believable.



It is, it's very hard to believe that if a console were aiming for a 2012 release, they wouldn't be suffering from the numerous issues that they are reportedly suffering from.

Well it stems from devs having internal timetables around 2012 as the release. Blacklight is just one example, but they really were planning a 2012 launch alongside new hardware. Take from that what you will. As to why they are still suffering if they were trying to ready a console release in 2012 I don't know. Maybe they changed directions radically and were left with a shortened dev time.
 
So let's get this straight. They were aiming for a 2012 release, couldn't make it and decided to push back until 2013 but are still struggling and possibly, as unlikely as it might be, won't even make this year?

Not to mention the release of two of the flagship titles in the latter part of 2012.

Jesus Christ.

Come hell or high water, Microsoft will launch in 2013. My posts earlier were referencing the tough job Microsoft has with their hardware and software issues. I am providing GAF with a transparency most people wouldn't. My information also dates back to a week after the Sony press conference. So things could have changed.
 
Isn't the roadmap from 2010 ? Either the change of plan from 2012 to 2013 was decided earlier than that, or the roadmap is missing something.
 
There are people reading this thread right now who have yet to say a damn thing and know I am telling the truth. I am not arguing the road map, I am intentionally telling you that Durango at ONE point in time was scheduled for a 2012 release to usurp Sony and go head to head with the Wii U. Don't believe me if you don't want. Thanks.

Sorry, I simply can't take your word for it. This along with the claim about games undergoing a noticeable downgrade make you far too unreliable in my opinion. I apologise if you're correct about everything, but I simply don't believe you.


Why would they? If you're aiming for a 2012 release but decide to push it back, there's absolutely no reason you should still be encountering the number of issues they are rumoured to be encountering.

They will make it this year. No way they are missing that launch window.

I expect they will, they can't afford to lose ground to Sony.

Well it stems from devs having internal timetables around 2012 as the release. Blacklight is just one example, but they really were planning a 2012 launch alongside new hardware. Take from that what you will. As to why they are still suffering if they were trying to ready a console release in 2012 I don't know. Maybe they changed directions radically and were left with a shortened dev time.

How drastically would you have to change direction to suffer from the issues they are rumoured to be suffering from? A complete overhaul of hardware?
 
MS having 1stit party issues is the least surprising thing I've heard all year. They shut down multiple studios in the middle of last gen, lost Bungie, and have Rare and Lionhead in shambles. Other than 343, a poor substitute for Bungie, and Turn10 the resume of recent worthwhile first party games is depressing. Starting up new studios to immediately push out launch content is a hell of a gamble. For every Halo you wind up with a lot more Brute Force or Azurik types.
 
Why is it so hard to believe that the decision to delay to 2013 was made before that leaked document was made? Any game planned to release at the end of 2012 would have been well under way.

I thought it was determined that leaked document was created in August 2010? They've been planning a 2013 launch for quite some time.
 
thuway's provided gaf more solid information than 99.9% of members.
don't understand why he's getting so much heat.

Because he hasn't actually provided all that much that has proven to be true, his name just gets banded about with a few others, people see it in threads , mention him in another thread and before you know it he has this weird insider kudos.
 
Why would they? If you're aiming for a 2012 release but decide to push it back, there's absolutely no reason you should still be encountering the number of issues they are rumoured to be encountering.

What if the issue was just 'that big'? What if they had to completely redesign the console's architecture practically from scratch? There are plenty of possible 'problems' you could run into that would cause you to have such long delays.
 
Why would they? If you're aiming for a 2012 release but decide to push it back, there's absolutely no reason you should still be encountering the number of issues they are rumoured to be encountering.

Who said they decided to push it back. Sounds to me like MS has fucked something (unknown) up bigtime...
Edit: beaten by Takuya
 
OK OK OK - last thing from me.

Microsoft's marketing strategy is not the problem. In fact, the marketing is the least of any one's concerns. They have plans to drown out any racket Sony can muster. Whether that means partnering with soft drink manufacturers, fast food chains, or product placement in television shows; it isn't even a question.

The problem is half baked development.
The Xbox team has some very specific goals, ambitions, and constraints. They have some brilliant minds working under the roof. The team who works on Direct X, ex-AMD folk, and hardware engineers with laundry lists of accolades. With all that said, if you have a thermal constraint and a maximum size in mind; no amount of talent can give you 2 TF.

The other side of the coin is first party. Studios, from what I am hearing, are having a hard time establishing a proper development culture. This is mostly in reference to Black Tusk, and a heavy reliance on third party titles from unproven studios (Respawn's Titan, Lucid's PGR6, etc).

The last little bit: they started late. Sony actually started developing before MS. Microsoft wanted to launch last year, believe it or not, but things didn't pan out than, and they are hurrying their teams now. There is actually a game released now that was supposed to be a Durango launch title.

It's the constellation of difficulties that is causing Microsoft to work harder and faster. It's frenetic, but it will eventually iron itself out. The most concerning thing is the games, and I am told to not get my hopes too high for their first party effort at launch.

I think you are getting bad info somewhere. No way they wanted to release this year. Nothing points to it that I have seen.
 
MS having 1stit party issues is the least surprising thing I've heard all year. They shut down multiple studios in the middle of last gen, lost Bungie, and have Rare and Lionhead in shambles. Other than 343, a poor substitute for Bungie, and Turn10 the resume of recent worthwhile first party games is depressing. Starting up new studios to immediately push out launch content is a hell of a gamble. For every Halo you wind up with a lot more Brute Force or Azurik types.

There is a famous poster on Beyond3D named Bkilian. He was the audio engineer on Durango, and he is one of the biggest sources for all of this information. He no longer works at Microsoft, but during a private message session with a particular GAF member, he mentioned that he is frustrated that "the suits began caring only about profit". On his way out he was terribly frustrated with the design and goals of the machine. Karak eat your heart out.
 
How drastically would you have to change direction to suffer from the issues they are rumoured to be suffering from? A complete overhaul of hardware?

I'm just spitballing here but if they indeed were planning on 2012 I doubt Kinect was as integrated into the system(rumored integration) as it likely is now. I assume that it would stem from a change in focus from this just being a upgraded 360 and instead a completely new concept for the system.
 
Why would they? If you're aiming for a 2012 release but decide to push it back, there's absolutely no reason you should still be encountering the number of issues they are rumoured to be encountering. How drastically would you have to change direction to suffer from the issues they are rumoured to be suffering from? A complete overhaul of hardware?

Instead of thinking how how a delay would make problems disappear, why not consider that the source of the delay and the current issues could be if not related, one and the same?

I'm not terribly informed on the state of hardware advances in recent years, but it's quite easy to see how what was planned in early 2010 may not be viable now.
 
What if the issue was just 'that big'? What if they had to completely redesign the console's architecture practically from scratch? There are plenty of possible 'problems' you could run into that would cause you to have such long delays.

That just seems unlikely. Also, wasn't this essentially ruled out by almost everyone? They couldn't have gone back to redesign the console from scratch in just a few months and have alpha/beta kits out to developers as well as reports of demos from Rare.

Something doesn't add up. They couldn't have redesigned their entire console in a space of a few months and had alpha/beta kits ready to ship to developers.
 
That just seems unlikely. Also, wasn't this essentially ruled out by almost everyone? They couldn't have gone back to redesign the console from scratch in just a few months and have alpha/beta kits out to developers as well as reports of demos from Rare.

Something doesn't add up. They couldn't have redesigned their entire console in a space of a few months and had alpha/beta kits ready to ship to developers.

Nobody said that this happened only months ago. Who knows when they've started having problems. I was just spitting out some scenarios, I don't know if it's true or not.
 
I'm just spitballing here but if they indeed were planning on 2012 I doubt Kinect was as integrated into the system(rumored integration) as it likely is now. I assume that it would stem from a change in focus from this just being a upgraded 360 and instead a completely new concept for the system.

Huh, but would Kinect integration result in the problems they are rumoured to be suffering from?

Instead of thinking how how a delay would make problems disappear, why not consider that the source of the delay and the current issues could be if not related, one and the same?

I'm not terribly informed on the state of hardware advances in recent years, but it's quite easy to see how what was planned in early 2010 may not be viable now.

Sure, but then if they decided to start from scratch or redesign certain aspects, they surely wouldn't be able to launch this year? The amount of testing, etc that needs to go into something like that wouldn't be possible in just a few short months and then there's the need to get alpha/beta kits out to developers.
 
I'm just spitballing here but if they indeed were planning on 2012 I doubt Kinect was as integrated into the system(rumored integration) as it likely is now. I assume that it would stem from a change in focus from this just being a upgraded 360 and instead a completely new concept for the system.

Nice guess here.
It could be.
 
There is a famous poster on Beyond3D named Bkilian. He was the audio engineer on Durango, and he is one of the biggest sources for all of this information. He no longer works at Microsoft, but during a private message session with a particular GAF member, he mentioned that he is frustrated that "the suits began caring only about profit". On his way out he was terribly frustrated with the design and goals of the machine. Karak eat your heart out.

He said that publicly in a post at B3D. It's no secret.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1696487&postcount=1314

bkilian said:
And you've hit one of the reasons I left. Almost all of the core gamers that created the Xbox that were in management have been forced out or left, and what's left over is MBAs with dollar signs in their eyes. I just found I could no longer believe in and agree with the direction the execs were taking the Xbox org.
 
What makes me question you further is that if they were indeed aiming for a 2012 release, why in the hell are they struggling at the moment? All signs point to a 2013 release, regardless of what one game intended to aim for.
I'm getting serious deja vu of PS3 pre launch rationalizations thanks to this thread.
 
None of us know all the internal machinations that might have contributed to a one year delay, followed by being behind by six months on internal development. But I could easily see how it would happen. Imagine getting a one-week extension on a term paper you haven't finished, and then dropping your guard thinking you have plenty of time. Before you know it, it's six days later and you're staying up all night to finish it.
 
Nobody said that this happened only months ago. Who knows when they've started having problems. I was just spitting out some scenarios, I don't know if it's true or not.

So surely if they had any drastic changes, etc, these would have leaked by now or at least been rumoured? The hardware rumours have been incredibly consistent, so I doubt it's hardware issue.

Kinect integration might possibly make sense, but would that really cause the problems they are rumoured to be suffering from?
 
thuway's provided gaf more solid information than 99.9% of members.
don't understand why he's getting so much heat.

Because of his past trollings of the X360. I distinctly remember his bashing of Gears 3 back in 2011, and in contrast praising Uncharted 3. Typical fanboy behavior.

But if he's provided accurate info recently, then so be it. Doesn't matter to me, as I'll own every console again. MS will reveal X3 soon enough.
 
If the 2012 thing is true then MS are the reason star wars 1313 is in the bin.

the implications for their developer and publisher relationships are enormous if any if this is true

they are up against a resurgent Sony and going head to head.

popcorn.gif
 
None of us know all the internal machinations that might have contributed to a one year delay, followed by being behind by six months on internal development. But I could easily see how it would happen. Imagine getting a one-week extension on a term paper you haven't finished, and then dropping your guard thinking you have plenty of time. Before you know it, it's six days later and you're staying up all night to finish it.
Anyone who has worked in corporate bureaucracy should know full well how project creep of this scale can set in. It's much harder to prevent than for it to simply happen.
 
Oh dear.

Dat credibility.

Serious question, where on Earth did you get the 2012 release info from? Their own roadmap shows a 2013 release? As for Black Tusk, it's fairly well documented that their projected wasn't greenlit until a few months ago.

Jesus Christ, stop talking out of your arse. It's pathetic.

Uhm, that 2012 date is true and you can ask Aegies if you like. He can corroborate it for you.
 
Anyone who has worked in corporate bureaucracy should know full well how project creep of this scale can set in. It's much harder to prevent than for it to simply happen.

That too. I can see scenarios where they said, "If we have another year, that means we'll be able to add THIS and THIS!" And then those things fall behind schedule.
 
Some are still confusing windows OS technologies. Tidbits:

WinRT is a set of APIs that is exposed.

WindowsRT is an ARM-based version of Windows that exposes WinRT APIs to developers.

WinRT =!= the operating system.

WinRT Applications run from within a sandbox.

If there is truth to the notion that Nextbox is running on Win8 technology & uses winRT.

Think of the Xbox OS:Win8 much like WinPhone OS: Win8

Speculation on this notion:

-implies that Xbox team is inheriting the kernel of Win8 much like the WP team did.

-The exposed WinRT APIs would be different than what W8 exposes, and different from what WP8 exposes.

-Xbox would have a custom OS tailored to the experience of the TV much like WP UI & OS is different than Win8.

-Graphics exposed WinRT APIs could lead to a lot more interOS games sold.

-Xbox Store might contain a lot of easily portable titles between xbox/w8/phone

-cheap development licenses for these xbox store

-App developers could create experiences that aren't game related, but would not need tight discussions with xbox team to develop. For example: WinRT APIs could suggest MLB.TV app being easily ported for Xbox (limited code change for UI only plus a couple WinRT api loses).

-This enables extreme flexibility of Xbox while still offering a large amount of opportunity for first-party showcase apps (Netflix? hulu? espn?).
 
If the 2012 thing is true then MS are the reason star wars 1313 is in the bin.

the implications for their developer and publisher relationships are enormous if any if this is true

they are up against a resurgent Sony and going head to head.

popcorn.gif

I think you are seeing something here that doesn't exist. Care to expand ? how can MS be to blame for 1313 being shitcanned along with the whole of LucasArts ?
 
I have to say the 2012 720 release claim is odd considering they released Halo 4 on the 360 that holiday season. It seems possible, but unlikely to me.
Yeah, seems to be poor timing to release the biggest installment of your most important IP on the old console in the same period as your new console launch. Something really doesn't jive with 2012. It may have been something targeted at one time, but I have a hard time believing that would have been the case any time in the last year given the runup to Halo 4. I'm sure there's a lot more to this story than thuway can explain since he's just getting pieces of unverified info from the outer ring of developers. In any case, I'm glad we only have to endure less than three more weeks of rumors and half-understood bits of info that may or may not be current or even fully correct. Thuway's past history of dumping on X360 on this forum doesn't help, but I'm willing to believe he's got a line on something there, even if I'm not convinced he's got enough of the story to hang the bigger picture on.
 
Some are still confusing windows OS technologies. Tidbits:

WinRT is a set of APIs that is exposed.

WindowsRT is an ARM-based version of Windows that exposes WinRT APIs to developers.

WinRT =!= the operating system.

WinRT Applications run from within a sandbox.

If there is truth to the notion that Nextbox is running on Win8 technology & uses winRT.

Think of the Xbox OS:Win8 much like WinPhone OS: Win8

Speculation on this notion:

-implies that Xbox team is inheriting the kernel of Win8 much like the WP team did.

-The exposed WinRT APIs would be different than what W8 exposes, and different from what WP8 exposes.

-Xbox would have a custom OS tailored to the experience of the TV much like WP UI & OS is different than Win8.

-Graphics exposed WinRT APIs could lead to a lot more interOS games sold.

-Xbox Store might contain a lot of easily portable titles between xbox/w8/phone

-cheap development licenses for these xbox store

-App developers could create experiences that aren't game related, but would not need tight discussions with xbox team to develop. For example: WinRT APIs could suggest MLB.TV app being easily ported for Xbox (limited code change for UI only plus a couple WinRT api loses).

-This enables extreme flexibility of Xbox while still offering a large amount of opportunity for first-party showcase apps (Netflix? hulu? espn?).

So you think the Kotaku rumor is definitely referring to WinRT then?

Would Windows RT (the OS) even be feasible given what we know about the Durango hardware? Maybe with some weird abstraction layer or something.
 
So surely if they had any drastic changes, etc, these would have leaked by now or at least been rumoured? The hardware rumours have been incredibly consistent, so I doubt it's hardware issue.

Kinect integration might possibly make sense, but would that really cause the problems they are rumoured to be suffering from?

So now he is saying they are a year and 1/2 behind. Yeah, I am not buying any of it at all. No way they were going to launch in 2012.
 
Yeah, seems to be poor timing to release the biggest installment of your most important IP on the old console in the same period as your new console launch. Something really doesn't jive with 2012. It may have been something targeted at one time, but I have a hard time believing that would have been the case any time in the last year given the runup to Halo 4. I'm sure there's a lot more to this story than thuway can explain since he's just getting pieces of unverified info from the outer ring of developers. In any case, I'm glad we only have to endure less than three more weeks of rumors and half-understood bits of info that may or may not be current or even fully correct. Thuway's past history of dumping on X360 on this forum doesn't help, but I'm willing to believe he's got a line on something there, even if I'm not convinced he's got enough of the story to hang the bigger picture on.


Like a lot of insider posts here there is likely a smidgen of truth in the 2012 thing, though everything gets twisted to suit posters own agenda/bias/viewpoint.

Microsoft start planning in 2008 for a 2012 console launch , things happen and somewhere along the line the plans get changed to 2013.

Internet version : Microsoft desperately wanted to launch in 2012, even had games ready to go......but the console is doomed and barely works and their development houses suck so they are now scrambling to launch in 2013....doom...doom . stuff...doom...
 
That's the thing to remember: these consoles never launch all that well. They always launch with a tiny number of games worth having and a great amount of ports and padded content to convince you that there are enough games out on day one to merit that day one purchase. This happened with the Xbox 360, with the PS3, with the Wii U. This is how it goes. The console makers' marketing team tries to play it cool, but these consoles come in hot. You wind up, as I did, with a brand-new Xbox 360 and the only game you want to play on it is a retro-arcade game called Geometry Wars.

lolwat

Very interesting Stephen. I thought the 360 had an absolutely stellar launch. Just on day 1 I purchased NFS: Most Wanted and Call of Duty 2.

About a week later I got Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, PGR3, and Condemned. That's not even including a couple other good games at launch. I don't think the Wii U launch is typical one bit.

A year later, at last, the likes of Oblivion and Gears of War have blown you away.

Besides you disregarding a slew of good games before Gears hit (Dead or Alive 4, Burnout Revenge, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, Hitman: Blood Money, Chromehounds, Prey, Dead Rising, Fight Night Round 3, Saints Row, Splinter Cell: Double Agent), Oblivion came out 4 months after launch :P
 
OK OK OK - last thing from me.

Microsoft's marketing strategy is not the problem. In fact, the marketing is the least of any one's concerns. They have plans to drown out any racket Sony can muster. Whether that means partnering with soft drink manufacturers, fast food chains, or product placement in television shows; it isn't even a question.

And lets not forget the many paid forum and comment section drones.
 
I don't see why it should be so hard to conceive that MS would have seriously considered a 2012 launch at one point. 2005-2012 would have already been the longest generational gap on record (or close enough, someone else can fact check).
 
Very interesting Stephen. I thought the 360 had an absolutely stellar launch. Just on day 1 I purchased NFS: Most Wanted and Call of Duty 2.

About a week later I got Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, PGR3, and Condemned. That's not even including a couple other good games at launch. I don't think the Wii U launch is typical one bit.

I thought the 360 had a good launch too. Iirc, there were a few games post launch that kept me playing as well...like DOA4 and GRAW.

PS3s wasnt so great. I think I played Resistance and Lemmings on it all year. Vita had a good launch, imo.
 
Just get GTAV all maxed out on the 720: gamers are going to flock to that console once they see how bad the game looks on the 7 yr old hardware of current consoles.

Personally I care far more about the state of the hardware.

RROD, remember that nightmare? and which awesome games did X360 get at launch? the only one worth playing was Condemned.
 
Man, it is bleak as hell in this thread. Does Durango even exist?

I'd say it's more interesting than bleak - it's a look at what happens in the production of a machine - I'm sure the Durango isn't the only one something like this has, potentially, happened to.
 
The 360 launch wasn't bad, it was the utter wasteland between launch and it's second holiday season that sucked.

I thought they had a pretty good amount of games between launch and before November 2006 hit.

Dead or Alive 4
Burnout Revenge
Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
Hitman: Blood Money
Chromehounds
Prey
Dead Rising
Fight Night Round 3
Saints Row
Splinter Cell: Double Agent
 
Top Bottom